Pak Tea House » Pakistan » Pakistan is here to stay
Pakistan is here to stay
By Yasser Latif Hamdani
It is not uncommon for those afflicted with the “India shining” ailment to speculate from time to time on the demise of Pakistan. Sadly this has been going on for more than 60 years and we in Pakistan are now used to it. Kapil Komireddi’s article “Pakistan’s Demise is Inevitable” therefore is at best an amusing read and more seriously an insight into an Indian mind obsessed with Pakistan to the point of wishful thinking.
Was it really divisive logic that created Pakistan? Revisionist scholarship in the west now holds otherwise. Pakistan’s founding father, Jinnah , in any event was a man who had dedicated his entire life to keeping India united (He was the only Indian leader to be called “The Best Ambassador of Hindu Muslim Unity”). So what led to the creation of Pakistan? While almost completely and homogenous white and protestant America in 1789 chose to vest residuary powers in the states, Indian National Congress which claimed to represent the multinational, multiethnic and mutli-religious peoples of India refused to consider this in India. Had Congress in 1931 agreed to the proposal that residuary powers be vested in provinces, like in the United States of America, there would have been no partition of India. There might still have no partition of India, had Congress accepted League’s demand for a confederation or a British cabinet proposal for a watered down three tiered federation in 1946. So the creation of Pakistan was not based on divisive logic but in the time-tested principle of unity in diversity and Congress’ failure to appreciate it.
Whether one agrees with the assertion that Bangladesh in 1971 constituted the largest genocide of Muslims ( Sharmila Bose of Harvard University certainly has given everyone enough reason to question this as a statistical exaggeration) but no one can deny that West Pakistan was unfair to East Pakistan. Yet Pakistan could have been kept united by constitution. In 1965, the Bengalis, including Shaikh Mujeebur Rahman’s party, still voted enmasse for Fatima Jinnah – Jinnah’s sister- in presidential election and had she been allowed to win, Pakistan might well have stayed united. The separation of East Pakistan was not a failure of the Pakistan idea. It was the failure of Pakistan’s military establishment to fully appreciate the genesis of Pakistan. Bengalis did not separate because they did not believe in Pakistan but because they saw in the military establishment’s behavior a betrayal of the idealism that created Pakistan.
Finally, India’s religious diversity does not affect Pakistan- which is itself a religious, ethnically and linguistically a very diverse country. The benefits India itself has derived from partition are well known to all, including Nehru who admitted it, whereby a Hindu majority informs India’s political and social life- without an overriding cultural majority keeping India united would have been impossible. But I am not sure if Kapil Komireddi was trying to make a case for Pakistan’s demise or inform the world of his country’s diversity. Pakistan will not die and will not whittle away as Mr. Komireddi wishes so badly.
This is not to say that we don’t have problems, but foremost is that we have abandoned Mr. Jinnah’s vision of inclusive, secular and pluralistic state in Pakistan. However recent victories of the Pakistan Army against the Taliban will no doubt sour the glee that some of our neighbors across the border have been expressing at the wet dreams of the demise of Pakistan. My response thus is: keep wishing but Pakistan is here to stay.
Filed under: Pakistan · Tags: Democratic, idea of Pakistan, Jinnah, Pakistan, Partition, secular, Taliban, Terrorism
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Hear! Hear!
Archaeo (June 20, 2009 at 12:15 am):
After reading the eloquence of Messrs. Raj, Swapna Vasav Dutta, and Shar Mishtha I was just going to sit back and enjoy my ‘very fine wine of Schadenfreude’ in silence. But then you come along. I too have laughed so hard that I almost fell off my chair spilling my fine wine all over the floor. Damn it. Now I need a refill.
“Now last think as an Indian, and tell me truly what you would want Pakistanis to do?”
Get off the obsession of Kashmir, stop calling it as
IOC, stop calling terrorists as FF and mostly, accept LOC
as IB and move on, do not keep harping it as unfinished
business of partition.
Stop sending anti-India terrorists to India and stop
harboring anti-India terrorist organizations, bascially
curtail/discourage those organization that keep dreaming
of breaking down India and furling green flag on Delhi,
something like that, basically Islamo fascists, who
are not necessarily beards.
That is all. After that, they can do whatever they want to
fulfil the reason Pakistan was created (what ever that was
I really could care less). It does not
bother me if India and Hindus are not part of this
endeavour, all the power to them.
IMHO, it is best if Pakistanis look west and north
and do not even look east.
>>>> Gorki writes “Here, he provides absolutely nothing; information or analysis wise to back his assertion”.
#1. Actually his whole article gives a coherent summary of reasons behind his assertion and prediction. Simply because reality contradicts your fanatasies about your country, you are calling him names, calling his writing school term paper, etc. Attacking the person, questioning his intellect, ridculing him do not constitute valid rebuttals.
>>>Gorki asks “Now last think as an Indian, and tell me truly what you would want Pakistanis to do?”
#2. Phew. I hope you really didn’t mean to ask this question. If you really asked this question, I’ll have to characterize you as dishonest.
Stop terrorism, stop speaking on behalf of people living in India. We have no interest in you and your terrorist Kasab country. I stopped interacting with paki bloggers for the past few years until Ajmal Amir Kasab motivated me again, you know what I mean.
>>>Gorki asks “Specifically tell me how does it hurt India if Pakistanis start to rediscover that MAJ was a secular person and wanted a nation built on secular principles?”
#3. No, it doesn’t hurt. Read above. We grew up and lived with Muslims, and studied with Muslims at school. We’ll never understand MAJ’s perverted logic. If you don’t send in more Kasabs, dismantle Kasab training schools who cares if you worship MAJ?
>>>>Gorki says “Finally how is it bad for us if this nation of 170 million stands on its feet and then develops into a vibrant successful and prosperous neighbor rather than a sullen enemy? ”
The only brief time “Pakistan” was not able to hurt ir undermine India was in the brief interlude after surrender of its army to Indian army in 1971 and 1980. And then now in 2008, the only thing it is able to do is send in Kasabs. Correctly, India has escalated the cost paki has to pay for terrorism.
Fighting Paki terror is only a smaller subtext to our larger success story.
If you are wondering what makes Indians gloat, oh come on, it cannot be that hard to understand. Did you see the pictures of blood flowing on the platforms of Mumbai train station?
Thank you Gorki.
It upsets me, only slightly, to see otherwise reasonable Indians comparing a majoritarian fascist like Advani to someone who was once known as the best Ambassador of Hindu Muslim Unity and someone who was a minority leader.
I wonder if these people have even bothered to come out of their nationalist shells and tried to consider the fact that TNT might have meant something completely different.
It goes back to the discussion we had in California. While we know where we went wrong – ie Zia’s islamic spin on TNT as an incontrovertible ideological principle…do Indians know where they did?
I don’t understand why or how nationhood – a linguistic complication and as benedict anderson said “imagined identity”- has become such a contentious issue and how it is confused with the idea of citizenship. It is all terribly depressing.
I don’t expect anyone to believe in the Two Nation Theory. I don’t think it is any more valid or invalid than one nation theory, multi-nation theory or no-nation theory.
How a group nationalism ie minoritarian muslim nationalism developed and what were its landmarks have all been discussed on these boards. I think it was well argued and a good counter-point which was needed and Jinnah therefore adopted it. Beyond re-hashing the idea of community as nation and therefore opening the door for a consociationalist solution to India’s future as a diverse country, he had little use or interest for it. And he used the term nation to describe different things at different times as we all do.
So I don’t know where Indians get this idea that we are out to make them admit the truth of the two nation theory…truth be told – and if you think long and hard about it- Two nation theory is the institutionalized part of Indian polity and not Pakistan. Musalmans of Pakistan don’t form one nation because there is no Hindu majority to unite them. Two Nation Theory thus is irrelevant to Pakistan.
In India however communal considerations run deep and indian Musalmans are a qaum- you bet.Precisely why you find politicians like Varun Gandhi saying what they say and LK Advani doing what they do.
And the sad bit is that the two nation theory that is operationalized and institutionalized in modern secular India of all places is not based on the progressive Muslim identity that Jinnah once inspired and which sidelined the Mullahs. The Indian variety of TNT is Congress’ tool to keep beating the drum of “secularism”. Congress hasn’t learnt from the past…it continues to sideline secular Muslims – as Gandhi sidelined Jinnah in the 1920s- and makes alliances with Deoband ceding to them the “leadership” of the Musalman “qaum”.
So those like the fellow above who spoke about Indians never accepting TNT …should know that Pakistanis don’t want you to accept anything least of all something that has no application or relevance in Pakistan …and that in India it is already ingrained in the system and championed by the very force that has made a career out of abusing it.
I feel sorry for people like Raj and komireddi who are unable to grow up and grow out of their petty prejudices and warped notions.
On the aside about presidents and their faith etc…the current president of Pakistan is a Shia Muslim. And Jinnah was a Shia..so were iskandar mirza, yahya, Bhutto, Benazir etc.
But I suppose the real issue was whether a non-muslim can become the president and the answer is sadly in the present scheme of things no. and I would like to see this changed.
However a non-muslim can become a prime minister and given that the constitutional scheme ultimately envisages a parliamentary system, it is the PM that should matter. The present importance of the president is temporary and shall pass with the repeal of 57 2 B. And I am sure Pakistanis will see the advantage of having a man like justice Rana Bhagwandas as the President of Pakistan. Inshallah. That day will come in my life time I am sure.
Yet it is as irrelevant a question for an Indian to ask and gloat as it would be if a question was put to citizen of great Britain -white, black, muslim, christian or hindu- “can you become the Queen of England and Wales and the British monarch”.
I mean what exactly is the role of an Indian president anyway. When was the last time we saw that fine freedom fighter lady president in public last? I feel that maybe the president of India is not even the symbol of Indian federation that he/she is proposed to be.
Raj mian, you are a joke.
Keep your word. Show your success story by nnot obsessing over Pakistan and writing on this website.
Gorki is Indian btw …
>>I feel sorry for people like Raj and komireddi who are unable to grow up and grow out of their petty prejudices and warped notions<<
Sure, how can we EVER grow up like you or your prophet MAJ (PBUH)?
Your prejudices are not petty and your notion are not warped. Please enlighten me more.
>>>Keep your word. Show your success story by nnot obsessing over Pakistan and writing on this website<<
You enjoy second class citizenship in your country delivered by MAJ(PBUH), I would enjoy third class non-citizenship in your country as a Hindu.
If you are proud of such a country, imagine how much proud we could be about India. Is that MAJ (pbuh) style to attack the individuals (or their religion) and not the arguments?
Raj mian,
Several abusive posts (now deleted).
Suffice to say – whatever is wrong with my country, I live in it and Komireddi types don’t live in theirs.
That is a searing indictment whether you like it or not.
Further to Raj:
“Third class Hindu non-citizen”
While prominent citizens of Karachi’s elite who are of Hindu faith might disagree with that assessment And I am sure Rana Bhagwandas – our former Chief Justice of the Supreme court would have a thing or two to say about that but since when did it bother you?
After all many many many Hindu first class citizens of the great Republic Of India are clamouring to become Non-citizens of fifth class in Saudi Arabia and UAE.
Did they give you first class citizenship in Japan yet?
This is not good, calling names (e.g. you are a joke)
and spilling personal details, just because of some one
does not conform/agree with your notions and ideas.
This is what is lacking in Pakistanis in general and that
is why democracy has not germinated well in Pakistan.
This is not professionalism. And now I prepare myself
to be called names or this post deleted or may be banned.
Why is this person extolled, I have no idea.
@ Raj/Swapnavasavdutta…
just a question…is the chowk website down for some reason? sure you wont be more comfortable there?
@ YLH..
*****
And I am sure Pakistanis will see the advantage of having a man like justice Rana Bhagwandas as the President of Pakistan. Inshallah. That day will come in my life time I am sure.
*****
Amen to that brother. Amen.
YLH: If I may add few words. The ‘One-Nation’ claim of Congress and the ‘Two-Nation’ counter claim of Muslim League only existed in the colonial British India context. Once the Empire was divided in 1947 between the two claimants the TNT expired. The two nations could have lived side by side in one country but the other side did not want it that way. In fact the other side did not want to hear any of it. So that is the how you got three countries out of one Empire. Now inside Pakistan we don’t talk about TNT. We have no need or use of it anymore. But both India and Pakistan still have their respective ongoing internal problems on the issue of nationhood in various part of the country. Hopefully India will find a solution to her problems as we struggle with ours. So all those Indians who are on this board let me say this much. There is no need for you to worry about the TNT vis-a-vis Pakistan any more. It is a done deal. The subject is closed as for as Pakistan is concerned. We Pakistanis only open it when you Indians ridiculously question about our existence as a nation-state.
YLH. How about if you write your next article on something other that India-Pakistan. It is getting old you see.
PMA Sahib:
I hear you. Let me briefly post my answers to the direct question directed at me and then I will get off the thread.
Archaeo:
The writing was brilliant and timeless. This is the kind of writing that entertains each time one reads it no matter how many times it has been read before. Sadly, though I suspect, the sarcasm is completely wasted on the objects of your attention.
Raj and swapnavasavdutta you wrote:
>>>Gorki asks “Now last think as an Indian, and tell me truly what you would want Pakistanis to do?”
#2. Phew. I hope you really didn’t mean to ask this question. If you really asked this question, I’ll have to characterize you as dishonest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Oh boy, where do I start and why do I even try?
Guys; you have it all wrong. While you are tripping over each other trying to be the first one with an answer kindly pause long enough to consider that may be, just may be; it is a question asked in a rhetorical sense only. (If you still don’t understand, ask Bonobashi or maybe Hayyer48 to elaborate. As for myself, I have had a long day and am tired.)
The point of my post was exactly what you both are saying. The terrorism from Pakistan has to stop. Yet this childish Pakistan bashing does nothing to prevent the 26/11 kind of massacres; it only gives more ammunition to those who are bent on perpetuating the kind of madness in the first place.
Let me spell it out. If you both carefully read what YLH, BC and PMA have argued above, it can be summarized as follows: Their country has no use for the TNT and if anything, they are long over the partition and its causes.
They also have no interest in encouraging any hostile acts towards India and are in fact calling upon their countrymen to look westwards and inwards, to solve their own problems rather than focus on India.
They do not need a Komireddi or any other Reddy to tell them what they need to do.
They know it.
OK.
Anytime any condescending nincompoop opens his mouth; it makes the task of moderate leaders in Pakistan so much harder!!
While they did not say this but it should be obvious to anyone reading the newspaper that terrorism is not a bathroom faucet that can be turned on or off at will. If Pakistan could tackle it as easily as most people naively think it can then it would not be taking casualties on a daily basis.
While there is no denying that Pakistani establishment at one time created a monster in trying to create unconventional counterbalance to Indian military forces it is clear that many in Pakistan feel that this was an unsound policy.
As things stand, terrorism is a global problem and both our countries have suffered from it.
I leave you both with the following thought; when your neighbor’s house is on fire, it is not very helpful to gloat or even debate as to who lit the match; that can be done later.
The fire threatens your own house just as much. It is important to first try to put out the fire, or at the very least; stop fanning the flames.
Regards.
Sigh! Archaeo, PMA: I guess I should have written, “Schadenfreude (if that’s what you’re having) is a very fine wine. Go away and drink it in silence.” Would have lost its subtle bite, but perhaps you might have understood better. And here I thought I was doing my bit to drive away heapers of vitriol (and assaulters of grammar) and that I was keeping a space open for interested Indian readers of this webzine, readers like myself who see no merit in TNT, whether based in secularism or in religion, but who are nonetheless interested in following the debate ( I have commented on this before). I think I shall now take up my own recommendation of silence, etc.
Gorki,
Take it easy man, you give too much imporatance
to what gets written here. Everybody is passing
a gas, so no point in getting outraged.
Just like Pakistanis give so much importance to
merit a response everytime some Indian writes
something negative about Pakistan.
None of us are makers and shakers.
@Sharmishtha
Sigh indeed!
Your motives were perfectly well understood, at least here: please look up the last time I wrote something, in response to the expression of malice who went around calling himself Neo.
I am sorry my fly-by accolade was misunderstood. On re-reading it, I agree, it does seem ambiguous. Apologies.
@Sharmishtha
Sigh indeed!
Your motives were perfectly well understood, at least here: please look up the last time I wrote something, in response to the expression of malice who went around calling himself Neo. Remembering your earlier expressions calling for restraint makes your attitude perfectly clear.
I am sorry my fly-by accolade was misunderstood. On re-reading it, I agree, it does seem ambiguous and sinister in intent. Apologies.
@swapnavasavdutta
Some feedback: please listen to what is being said (not my words):
“swapna dutta is hopeless. he has read it all. keeps visiting. keeps repeating the same beliefs. never gives any facts. never refutes any facts.”
Is this what you want to be remembered for? Please make an effort and put in something of yourself.
However, I agree with you there was too much importance given to that journeyman peddler of letters who set off this present storm in a tea-cup.
Swap,
Don’t lecture me on name-calling. Raj’s posts and my posts are there. I think people can see who is rational and irrational.
Honestly ifa “democracy” creates bigots like Raj or people like you who are unable to criticize your own kind, I’d rather not live in such a democracy.
And no as you can see no one has deleted you …just like no one has deleted Raj’s main posts. If he abuses people because of their national origin, he will certainly be deleted.
PMA,
That is very succinctly put. ONT and TNT existed in British India…and the latter proved the former wrong in a very substantial way. Wherever a majority will try and impose its own idea of nationalism, a TNT (or a MNT) will emerge as a liberation-ist ideal.
Therefore we must solve our own issues by emphasizing constitutionalism above nationalism, citizenship over nation.
Will some kind soul, Pakistani, Indian or Bantu, I don’t care, please explain to me why most Indians spend most of our time on PTH assaulting, aggravating and bad-mouthing those closest to us in ideology and thinking within Pakistan? Those who, just like us, want to leave behind the baggage of the past, work on our respective problems for the present, and look to the future when citizens of independent and self-reliant nations meet without any shrill, hysterical bad-temper clouding the interaction?
What is this, some kind of endurance test?
Is the intense academic curiousity about certain historical events and processes expressed over several very fulfilling discussions being mistaken with disastrous consequences for some kind of yearning for the past? These are such different things, how can they be confused?
Perhaps we should leave this whole thing alone for several moons, although personally I shall be a big-time loser and regret it deeply if that is done. Anything for peace and quiet.
hayyer48, bonobashi, Gorki, Subramanyam K.V, Archaeo:
Thank you for your input and kind words. Your understanding of the events of the past will help in the quest for peace in the future. The need of the time is that the respective leaderships of these two mutually antagonising countries sit down together and resolve their outstanding disputes. The two owe it to the world. As someone said, “None of us [on this board] are makers [movers] and shakers”. That is true. But at the same time we do not exit in vacuum either. My hope is that those who are convinced about the need of peace between these two countries will go out in their real lives and try to convince their fellow countrymen for the same. It hurts me to see millions and millions of South Asians particularly in India and Bangladesh living in slums in utter misery in sub-human conditions. We few who are fortunate enough to chit-chat and some time argue on these Internet sites, we owe to those millions the same human dignity and fair chance in life that we enjoy. That will only happen if we resolve our bilateral disputes and move forward. Our respective countries have great challenges ahead of us. We need to disengage for a while and concentrate on our internal problems. And for me, I am going to take my own advise and get off this board for a while, shut up and just listen. You Dasht Naward; you sly man, you too need a break. And Mahatma, chill it. And Archaeo; your piece was excellent. Hope to read more of your writings. Let me raise my ‘Jam-e-Saffal’ and salute to all you gentlemen and to my dear friend Raza Rumi. Cheers.
I too shall take this excellent advice.
PMA: I took your advice two days ago. The Mahatma has been silent for 40 posts despite the temptation to join in a good cause.
PMA: Nice to hear your concern about the suffering the masses of South Asia.Lets hope we all live to the day to see a peaceful ,well developed South Asia.A South Asia where we can see India ,Pakistan ,Bangladesh not just as developed countries but as good and mutually respecting neighbors.
ahaa, its been a while and seems i ve missed some good discussions…
” oh, simple things, like a cricket team, for instance, one that wins something once in a way, you know the kind we mean, or …”
r u watching indians…. he he he…. 22nd june 09… 20/20 champions… pakistan
amazingly i would have wished india to win if they were playing any non south asian team…. when will they learn…..
greatness comes generous hearts and humble minds…. not from being big in numbers or size…
azhar aslam
@awaam
I was being sarcastic, you twit, like the rest of the post. It was already clear that India were out, well out, and Pakistan were on a roll. The next line should say it clearly. And then the abrupt change of subject to hockey. Oh, never mind. I can see that you have a subtle, perceptive mind.
Anyway, enjoy yourselves for another 364 days or less
> we’re coming for you. And remember: size does matter.