Pak Tea House » Pakistan » No alternative to peace with India
No alternative to peace with India
Once again, the fragile peace process between India and Pakistan has commenced. It is too early to say whether it will lead to an amicable settlement of seemingly intractable issues. What is clear is that the peoples of the two countries want peace, security and progress. The elites, which agreed on the messy Partition and raised nation-states and huge militaries, have surely flourished at the expense of people. A causal look at India’s poverty and Pakistan’s social indicators proves this point.
As a confidence building measure, a group of Pakistani journalists visited Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore to meet their counterparts, think tanks and selected top-level officials. This was a timely and fruitful visit and reminded us that there is a formidable peace constituency in India. After the Indian home minister it is the turn of the Indian foreign minister to visit Islamabad from today for a three-day tour. Regardless of the outcome, sensible neighbours must continue to talk.
Evidently, the Mumbai terror attacks were the greatest stumbling block in resuming dialogue. Discussions at Sharm el Sheikh were a major breakthrough. Dr Manmohan Singh overcame tough public opinion after the joint declaration. This year’s dialogue at the Saarc Summit in Bhutan catalysed the peace process. After the 18th amendment to the Pakistani Constitution, the Indian side has noted the power shift within Pakistan as it strives to reclaim the democratic path.
Pakistani media persons, including me, could not help notice the centrality of the Mumbai attacks factor, which continues to inform public opinion in India. A majority of Indians hold Pakistan fully responsible for the event. The caveat here is that they often forget that Pakistan is also a victim of terrorism. But there is growing awareness in India about the internal challenges within Pakistan. This is why the Indian leadership has delinked dialogue from terrorism.
To facilitate the peace process, Pakistan should demonstrate its resolve to pursue proper investigation into the alleged Mumbai conspiracy hatchers. The Indian home minister left Pakistan in June somewhat assured of the efforts being made here. Our foreign minister should also reassure his Indian counterpart.
It is clear that regional stability is a foremost priority for India given its focus on achieving a 10 per cent growth rate. Pakistan should benefit from this dynamic by expanding trade with India. Mutual trade will be a win-win situation and give a much-needed boost to our economy.
Public opinion in Pakistan has to be strengthened against militancy and extremism. The out-of-control militant groups are a nightmare for Pakistan and cast a dark shadow over its future. Furthermore, media and telecommunication restrictions need to be lifted on both sides. It is fashionable to deride the vigil brigade for being unrealistic but there is no alternative to people-to-people contacts. Indians, thanks to the global media, view Pakistan as a country full of ‘terrorists’. We must change this and not let the hawks on the Indian side to misrepresent us.
Published in The Express Tribune, July 14th, 2010.
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Filed under: Pakistan · Tags: dialogue, diplomacy, exchange, Foreign office, India, Mumbai, Pakistan, peace, people-to-people, Sharm el Sheikh, south asia, subcontinent, terror, Terrorism, track II
385 Responses to "No alternative to peace with India"
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So I guess all the Muslim classmates, roommates and teachers I have had in India are all a mirage.
Dude, Dastgir, has it ever occurred to you to stop playing the victim card and see what you can achieve?
I think this dude Dastagir needs to open his mind and face up to the fact that he may just not be smart enough to compete and get into IIM,IIT etc. Not many Hindus do either
Although, I can understand his point about 4 year olds, still gaining admission to a shishu vihar is not the end all or be all of life. I would find it hard to believe nobody admitted his kid to a KG or pre-school because he was a muslim. This is utter crap.
Sakhi ! Deshbhakti imaan kaa hissa.
Bharitya Muslim to jaan hee dey dey
Aaj tak jitne “spies” pakde gaye
Un mein ek bhee muslim naa tha !
Sakhi ! Deshbhakti imaan kaa hissa
RSS daayin khaaye jaat hai !!!
@Sardar Khan
Yes we need peace,but it is not Pakistan who needs it.India also needs it.
Sardar Khan ji,
I never really get an answer, when I ask Pakistanis why does India need peace with Pakistan?
a) Pakistanis reject the claim, that they are controlling the violence in Kashmir. Fine. But if we had peace, you wouldn’t be able to help us there then.
b) Pakistanis say it is non-state actors committing all the terrorist attacks in India and they cannot do anything. Fine. So the terror attacks will go on in spite of any peace treaty.
So please tell me, what does India get from peace?
Until indians do not accept the ground realities,that bombay card has lost its credibility,till that,they won’t be serious in making peace with Pakistan.
I’m sorry. The Mumbai 26/11 Terror Attacks killed at least 173 people and wounded at least 308. Some of it was seen by people around the world on TV. The terrorists attacked some of India’s prime cultural monuments. Justice needs to be done!
These are no cards. India brought 173 people to the shamshaan ghat that week. Those deaths need to be accounted for.
It was Pakistan, that was insisting on resumption of talks. I wonder why?
Ok, some light relief time. Here is a piece posted on the hilarious blog Overrated Outcast on 24 June.
“The India-Pak OMGLOLPalooza!
So I wrote this post when India and Pakistan had started bilateral talks last year, for the first time after so many months! Anyways, this got lost in the ‘drafts’ section, and since both countries are back to talking again (because as they say 538061844791849173583629172491312 time is the charm), this is relevant. So you could read it both ways, as something that happened in the past, or something that will happen in the future. Whatever works for ya, guvnor!
Note: Some dialog may have been changed to reflect recent developments. Also, watch out for the clichés.
After three false restarts, India and Pakistan are ready to finally start the dialogue-to-plan-start-of-dialogue. Yes, welcome to Season 4 of So you think you can hold a bilateral dialogue? Even though PM Singh has had a few bilateral meetings with both President Zardari and PM Geelani, everyone’s pretending that didn’t happen, and this is the first time they’re meeting, after thousands of years of sending rude superpokes to each other through facebook.
And since there is no definite name for the summit/meeting/whatevs, we have helpfully named it OMGLOLPalooza, because, why not?
So the stage was set for Nirupama ‘I got a fancy new hairdo just for this’ Rao, who was representing the Indian government, and Salman ‘Made in China’ Bashir, who was representing the civilian government of Pakistan, the Pakistani army, Bilawal Bhutto, Pervez Mussharaf’s bad-ass moustache, Jeebus, let’s just keep it as a TBD.
Anyways, with the rest of the world watching (Not really. The Europeans are busy trying to save their economies while getting their ass kicked in football, the Americans are busy praying, sexting and blaming Obama for their hernia. the people in the continent of Africa are alternatively starving and killing each other, the South Koreans are occupied with playing video games, the Japanese spend their time having sex with female robots, the Australians are planning to spend the summer punching and kicking anyone they can get their hands on, meanwhile Israel and Iran are scheduled to spend the rest of the year trying to cockblock each other. Also, the whole world has seen this movie before and knows how it ends.) both these nuclear ‘powers’ on the brink of ‘war’ to finally set aside their differences and finish negotiating the divorce settlement they started negotiating more than six decades ago!
So here is the conversation that happened during their super-secret meeting:
SB: Hi . . .
NR: Oh hai, I can haz Hafiz Sayed?
SB: LOL! No! Strategic Asset FTW!
NR: Sadface
SB: I can haz Cashmere?
NR: R U Crazy?
NR: Can’t even handle territory you actually have! Amirite?
SB: True dat! LMAO!
SB: But I can haz Cashmere?
NR: *facepalm*
SB: Is that a yes?
NR: No, no, a thousand times no! From our cold dead hands! Also!
NR: Which reminds me, stop trying to kill us all the time!
SB: Non-state actors, we can’t control them, trolls etc. You know the drill . . .
NR: Yeah, pretty much.
NR: Okay, so here are some new dossiers. New evidence against old & new people.
SB: Ummmmm, yeah, sure, we’re going to “read” this and take it “seriously”. *snigger*
NR: Umm, yeah. I’m sure about that!
SB: So can we talk about Cashmere, then?
NR: On two conditions. . .
SB: Which are . . . ?
NR: First, stop pronouncing it as “Cashmere”, it’s a place, not a sweater. K-A-S-H-M-I-R.
NR: Second, are you fucking kidding me?
SB: Fair enough.
NR: Now that we’ve got that out of the way, what’s with spying through our embassy staff?
SB: Well, I can’t speak for the ISI, because I’m not even allowed near their offices and if they ever see me there they might shoot me . . . but they must be doing that just to piss off Arnab Goswami.
SB: If they wanted real intelligence about your country, they would just ask the Chinese to send it over, in PDF format!
NR: Well, the Chinese are efficient, to say the least.
SB: Yes, yes they are.
SB: Have you seen their phones? They can do anything! Anything! Even talk dirty to my wife, while I watch my favourite TV show, The Secret Adventures of Agent Rana! It’s the #1 show, in Pakistan.
NR: Dude, calm down! And really, that was way serious TMI!
SB: Well, I was promised that we could talk about anything we want . . .
NR: Anyways . . .
SB: Sorry to interrupt, but before I forget . . . . something something Indus Water Treaty
NR: Huh?
SB: Just needed to mention that too!
SB: Which completes my checklist.
SB: Now I can go on teevee and proclaim that all issues important to Pakistan were discussed.
NR: You’re a sneaky basted!
SB: Guilty as charged! LOL!
NR: *rolls eyes*
NR: Okay, now can we get back to talking about terrorism?
SB: Yeah, sure.
SB: We want you to stop terrorizing us . . .
NR: O RLY?
SB: . . . with Mahesh Bhatt movies!
NR: To tell you the truth, he is one of our secret weapons.The other one is Himesh Reshamiya.
NR: Collectively, they are known as the Weapons of Mass Irritation.
SB: I see your Himesh, and raise you an Atif Aslam.
NR: Oh, that’s a good move. A bloody good move.
SB: Want to play a game of Poker?
SB: Whoever wins gets Cashmere!
NR: Jebus Hussien Christ! You’re an idiot!
SB: Well, you’re starting to sound like my wife!
SB: It makes me horny.
NR: I can’t do this right now. I have a headache.
SB: That’s what she says! Hahahaha!
NR: …….
NR: ……..
NR: This meeting is over.
SB: See you again . . . . in a few months time?
NR: *Sigh*. Yeah, I guess.
SB: You bring the food, I’ll bring the wine. *Wink*
NR: *Mumbling to herself* The only thing I’ll be bringing is a frikin pepper spray.
NR: *Exits*
@Tilsim
interesting piece there.
In India we are used to something similar, only with Musharraf and Armitage instead!
@ Raj (the other one)
Recommend the blog highly. There is another piece in there about Pakistanis pretending to be Indians these days in the US. Too funny.
Dastagir,
“BJP is very good in staging attacks., be it Parliament or Godhra and again Post-Godhra. Even in the case of 26/11 Mumbai, it is possible, that Indian Intelligence Agencies had a hand in it. Or was it Shivsena / Narendra Modi / Togadia along with some Mullah / terrorist outfit / unemployed Pakis (Outsourcing of riots)., who did the dirty job !”
If you are looking for reasons for your failures, you don’t need to look further. These lines are an ample proof of your (lack of)mental balance.
I guess, if you had put your mind to serious study rather than reading or imagining such hack stories, you would have been at IIM or IIT or other institutions of higher learning. Don’t characterize your own failures as the reflection of the entire community. By the way, the IAS topper this year is a Muslim, no? Oh, well, that may be due to our desire to show the world that the minorities are not faring bad in our country. Grow up and stop making excuses. In our country there is discrimination of all kinds. You are not the only one.
Vajra (July 19, 2010 at 9:16 am):
“Do you Pakistanis think you are the only ones with a problem? We have one six times as large. Ours, in short, is bigger than yours.”
Typically Indian. Always bragging and exaggerating. What is next? I have more gods than you do?
@PMA
Typically Indian. Always bragging and exaggerating. What is next? I have more gods than you do?
That should read, “I have more ways to God than you do!” That is Hinduism! You are mixing up deities with God.
Islam too has deities – various angels, jinns, etc.
@ PMA (July 20, 2010 at 5:25 pm)
“…..Typically Indian. Always bragging and exaggerating. What is next? I have more gods than you do?…..”
To be honest and factual, our neighbours do indeed have more on their hands than we do. Even if they admitted their concerns and daunting challenges, with ultimate humility, we perhaps, would still habitually be tempted to imagine them as the bragging ones. In my opinion, this particular post by Vajra, if anything, exhibits candid introspection and admission to the difficulties India faces today. Hardly any bragging.
We have our problems and our neighbours have theirs. I believe what we have to struggle to achieve is to stop becoming each other’s problem.
@ Raj (the other one) (July 20, 2010 at 9:01 pm)
“…..Islam too has deities – various angels, jinns, etc……”
Islam offers another angle to this issue. In Islam, God is not only a deity, but the only deity. The words “laa ilaaha illallaah” can be translated as “there is none worthy of worship except Allah”. Angels, in Islam are revered simply for the fact that they are obedient servants of Allah, and believing in their existence is an article of faith. They are neither adored, nor besought for help. As for jinns, they too are neither worshiped nor called for help. In Islam, Allah alone is considered worthy of being worshiped, and thus the only deity.
Regards.
“Angels, in Islam are revered simply for the fact that they are obedient servants of Allah, and believing in their existence is an article of faith. They are neither adored, nor besought for help. As for jinns, they too are neither worshiped nor called for help”
Yes, but in 1965 they decided to “help” the army of the believers to “defeat” the Indians, didn’t they…
Bin Ismail (July 21, 2010 at 5:58 pm):
Vajra is a dear old PTH fixture and I was just having fun with him. Please don’t take everything so seriously. On the subject of problems. I heard New Delhi in preparation for the Commonwealth Games is going to really clean up the city. Of its hundreds of thousands beggars, street sleepers and slum dwellers, the ‘outsiders’ are being shipped back to their native states. West Bengal on its part has refused to add on to its own beggars and homeless population stating that the Bengali beggars of Delhi are in fact Bangladeshis. During the games the indigenous Delhi beggars and others will be temporarily housed along the city skirts. The thousands and thousands of stray dogs, cats, cows, snakes and rats will also be picked up from the city streets and temporarily relocated till all the foreign visitors have left at the spanking new air terminal. Now only if Lahore could follow the Delhi initiative.
@androidguy (July 21, 2010 at 6:30 pm)
“…..Yes, but in 1965 they decided to “help” the army of the believers to “defeat” the Indians, didn’t they…..”
…which would imply that in 1971, they switched sides.
@PMA (July 21, 2010 at 6:54 pm)
“…..Now only if Lahore could follow the Delhi initiative…..”
In Delhi, the shrines of Muslim saints have never been bombed. Yes, perhaps Lahore could follow Delhi.
… in delhi, nobody is worried about calling a mosque a mosque either.
Bin Ismail (July 22, 2010 at 1:47 am):
bciv (July 22, 2010 at 2:33 am):
Gentlemen. Gentlemen. You will never find me defending bad behavior of any one. Particularly of those who deny others right to worship the way they choose. Or of those who blow up and demolish mosques, temples or shrines. Or of those who kill in the name of religion. And that goes for the offenders anywhere and everywhere. Rest easy my friends.
Hi,
Pakistan military establishment would not like to have peace with india as it will downgrade their importance in the country. Further it will bring out many of their loots to public place.
India and pakistan can continuously talk but nothing great is going to be achieved as india will agree to talk about kashmir and pakistan will not talk without kashmir.
So continue the royal talk for eternity.
Hi!
Fact remains that there will never be peace in the region. Non of the two countries are responsible. God is the creator of all problems here, I think. He made India bigger in size. But the best brains he gave to Pakistanis, so they have the best education(Pakistan Institute of Engg. and Applied Sciences, National University of Sciences & Technology are some of the world class universities and plenty more according to the Western websites), the more beauty to Pakistanis), better artists and filmmakers(Atif Aslam, Shoaib Mansoor compared to Lata,Karan Johar), better sportsmen(Aisam Quereshi is far better than Bopanna, Imran was better than Kapil), Science(A.Q.Khan is modern day Einstein).
India just have beggars. But being bigger in size they will never accept Pakistan’s superiority.
So in terms of peace…. I expect zero results.
Good thing for me, I can actually see an improvement in my typing speed by still engaging here.
Aliloveall, you are sooooo right…..such insightful take on the Indo-Pak rivalry that it takes the breath away….
Aliloveall:
Imran was not only better than Kapil Dev. He was handsomer than Kapil Dev. It is a deadly combination that you have over there, brains and beauty.
@It is a deadly combination that you have over there, brains and beauty.
Indeed, deadly.
Hayyer (July 22, 2010 at 7:43 pm):
Leaving Mr. Loveall aside. You have to admit. Pakistanis are good-looking people.
PMA:
You are risking the sin of Lucifer sir. Excessive pride hath a fall.
More seriously though, as winners of Mr. Adonis and Ms. Venus prizes Pakistanis are about the best bets in an international competition.
However, I maintain that this is confined to your urban elites and to your feudocracy. Your working classes and your peasants look like the rest of us poor darkies.
Further, I maintain that your urban/ feudal good looks are all Indian inspired, because pulchritude begins to peter out westwards of the Durand Line, being confined to points south and west of it. Tajiks, Uzbeks and even Iranians don’t compare.
I was talking of general average beauty. As standouts India does very well. Madhubala, I maintain was Indian. Madhuri Dixit ran her close. For a sensitive good looking portrait Pakistan can never match Vidya Balan. But for supreme beauty there is nothing like Suchitra Sen. Not ever can anything come close.
As for the male standard, well, Imran Khan’s sort of handsomeness goes well in blue films. He cannot however compare with Dilip Kumar or Yusuf Khan; but this young fellow in Hindi movies, Arjun Rampal, is better than your best. Remember we are not talking just of fair skin and light eyes.
points south and east of it. Sorry.
Being myself a grandson of a working class peasant I resent your description of my people. I know Indians are very conscience of color, caste and creed, as any ‘matrimonial ads’ will show, but I was talking of Pakistan and not of India.
True in India fair skin is considered as mark of beauty, perhaps due to her centuries old Ayrian-Dravidian divide, but beauty neither starts with a fair skin nor ends with it. If that was true then tan-skin South American girls would not routinely beat out pale-skin Scandinavians in international competitions!
My claim to Pakistanis being a good-looking people is based on the looks of our every-day man and women all across the country and not just some movie star. But I could see why you have produced Indian movie stars to support your counter claim. Remember what they say about Indians: “All good-looking Indians are in the movies”. As a youngster I used to read Indian tabloid ‘Filmfare’. The contrast between on-screen and off-screen faces was phenomenal.
But if you want to compare Indians with Pakistanis, which I don’t, then pound for pound I say that Pakistani people in general are taller, healthier, better fed and more handsome than Indians. An outside neutral observer would agree with me.
@Hayyer
Vidya Balan was enchanting in Parineeta.
@NAS,
Don’t say that. Pakistanis are taller, fairer, handsomer and whatnot. They are also 10 times more braver. And their english has better accent than the Indians, and hence they would have done better than Indians in call center work, if only the Hindus & Jews along with the American imperialists not conspired to hoodwink the Taliban to blast themselves all over Lahore.
Just don’t tell this to the 6ft 2 inch truck drivers of Tamil Nadu and Kerala.
Sir,
I conceded at the very start that Pakistanis are on the average much better looking. I also said that the outstanding Indians in looks tend to exceed the Pakistanis.
Just pulling your leg Sir.
I am glad you agree with me on skin colour which by the way is a prejudice in both countries I think. The Mughals used to import women from Kashmir to marry and have fair children.Walter Lawrence (was it?) who said that this was the reason perhaps there were few good looking women left in Kashmir.
Many good looking youngsters want to become film stars, but not all. There are more outstandingly good looking people outside Bollywood than in it. Bollywood has a bias for family rather than pure pulchritude. Many beautiful persons have not succeeded there, and average ones have.
Oye I thought Pakistanis were losing the battle here in terms of abusing the Indians… tried my level best to bring out the patriotism in you guys… what a waste of my 30 minutes of typing-practise!!
So come on …don lose the bus this time… I begin here…
Who the hell is Suchitra Sen? (bdw itz a real qs too…)
We are not only taller, stronger & fairer, but we are also braver. We won all the wars with India. In 1971, we lost intentionally because it gave us a reason to divide those bengali bhangees. In Kargil, US precedent Bill Clinton request NAwaz SHarif to pull troops otherwise our fauj was only 100 miles off Delhi. Our cricketers are also prave, they take dollars and pounds without any fear. Our politicians are also prave, look at Zardari sahab, he has no fear of taking 10% commishion. We are very prave quam, Indians are cowards & short, dark and ugly. We are true superpower of the world, but it is the conspiracy of America, Hindu & Jew that we are not superpower but we will soon become very super power in world. Inshallah
Write more, thats all I have to say. Literally, it seems as though you relied on the video to make your point. You clearly know what youre talking about, why throw away your intelligence on just posting videos to your site when you could be giving us something informative to read?
Here I am going to say a loud so every one of you can hear me…India is so popular in the world due to corruption all the white people look at them and say this is from corrupt nation called Indian. Mr Anna and Mr Babba are their enemies .The Indian Government is very busy to wash their faces or hide them from rest of the world. jay corruption jay corruption……Manmohan Sing….
Well, the root problem on both sides is the existence of religious fanatics. Whether Hindu or Muslim, each side thinks that they are right and the way history is distorted in both countries does not help either. We can keep abusing each other, flaying each other but that doesn’t help. Unless people of both sides are open to each other without taking out weapons and respect each other’s faiths and beliefs, I doubt peace can ever be restored.. Marx was right in saying religion is the opium of masses and it has certainly proved true for these two countries as it has helped killing several millions over the years and billions of rupees in making each other’s life difficult by adopting all kinds of means. I wonder what is kind of religious fervour is this! To have peaceful coexistence, one should be open. One must question the scriptures and books which were written at a time when man was uneducated and times were different, We should question the existence of each and everything, don’t believe the books, pundits and maulvis. Why believe in God without any proof when it creates more divisions than filling many. The point is differences will always be there simply because we are humans, it is just a question of having openness to live and accept others and religions or institutions don’t help in latter. With Hindus and Muslims, it has been bad for most times as both distrust each other so much. No point in talking who started it all, the point is it has always continued to escalate, how stupid these two communities are!
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