Pak Tea House » China, India, Pakistan, USA » Pakistan’s Geopolitical Dilemma China Or US: Viewpoint From Pakistan – Analysis
Pakistan’s Geopolitical Dilemma China Or US: Viewpoint From Pakistan – Analysis
Written by: Eurasia Review
By Khan A. Sufyan
The dynamic nature of geo-political environment is transitioning from American efforts to retain its uni-polarity to a stage where the emerging competitors and challengers are moving to a position of asserting their influence. This is likely to result in geo-economic, geo-political and geo-strategic changes, realignments and re-assertions, in certain regions which are likely to play important, if not pivotal roles in the future. These are high-stake political games which may well result in either prolonging geo-political status-quo or the commencement of changes towards a multi-polar balance of power.
To maintain the geo-political status-quo, major US concerns are likely to remain focused on Asia. These include an emerging China, sustaining support for a countervailing India, a resurgent Russia and a concerned Muslim world attempting to redefine its place in the world polity. While US led efforts aimed at containment of Russia are stabilizing almost along the original Russian borders in Europe, endeavours to curtail her expansion towards the south and limit Russian and Chinese influence in Eurasian hinterland are underway.
In February 2002, Colin Powell told the House International Relations Committee that, “America will have a continuing interest and presence in Central Asia of a kind that we could not have dreamed of before.” Chairman of NATO Military Committee while on a recent visit to Australia stated that, securing the safety of Washington and Brussels requires the expansion of a US dominated military alliance into “the Euro-Asian and Asian-Pacific regions.” Major US and NATO presence in Afghanistan and their efforts to enhance military presence in various Central Asian countries under the garb of providing support for Afghan war are clear indications in this direction.
In the post 9/11 environment Asia therefore became the test-bed of American attempts to assert and realign the politico-economic order to maintain her full-spectrum domination and deny or delay the emergence and assurgence of competing powers. US invasion of Iraq was essentially a venture to sustain these objectives and not against terrorism which had roots in Afghanistan. It was thought that the US adventure in Iraq would achieve its objectives soon and would allow shifting the focus to stabilize Afghanistan for a protracted US presence because of geo-political compulsions. While the US was busy in Iraq, they co-opted Indian support to replace Pakistan as a stabilizing influence in Afghanistan, mainly due to Pak-US trust deficit. This also provided Americans an opportunity to project Indian influence in Central Asia to dilute the existing Russian and increasing Chinese support base.
Having failed in her earlier attempts to coerce Pakistan through application of direct strategy, India readily took this opportunity to pay back Pakistan for its alleged interference in Indian Occupied Kashmir and ventured in to a strategic encirclement of Pakistan. Under a calibrated strategy, US also supported India by attempting to persuade Pakistan to allow passageway for sustaining the Indian influence in Afghanistan and beyond. While addressing a press conference in January this year in Islamabad, Hillary Clinton openly supported this venture to the discomfiture of her hosts. However, Pakistan did not acquiesce and avoided a self-inflicted strategic encirclement.
Moreover, in order to dilute and contain resurgent Taliban, US contrived with Indian and Afghan support to shift the terrorist center of gravity to Pakistani territory resulting in manifold increase in drone attacks in Pak regions bordering Afghanistan. However, the US desire to confine this war to Af-pak region was short-lived. Soon the Taliban outside of so-called Af-pak region re-emerged stronger, warranting a US surge followed by a crisis of command and strategy.
Also, the Americans soon realized Indian inability to replace Pakistan’s strategic influence in its backyard. This also solidified the fact that the geo-politically influenced strategic pivot provided by Pakistan could not and would not be replaced by India, no matter how powerful India may be. Pakistan had withstood the challenge, no matter how weak it had been or would be. Achievement of US geo-political and geo-strategic goals therefore would become extremely difficult without co-opting Pakistan. This fact can not be overstated by citing a statement of Senator McCain (courtesy wikileaks), who while talking to David Cameron in a 2008 meeting said that, “if they (Pakistan) don’t cooperate and help us, I don’t know what we are going to do.”
Many believe that India is a regional power, yet they fail to realize the fact that its regional prowess can only be exercised against nations as small and vulnerable as Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Maldives and Bangladesh. It has not been able to convincingly project its power potential against present day Pakistan and China and it is unlikely to happen in the future as well. US Embassy, New Delhi (courtesy wikileaks) corroborates this fact indicating that, with present Indian military capabilities, Cold Start doctrine would encounter mixed results.
US, France, UK, China and Russia etc can project their power potential because either they do not have a powerful regional threat to counter or they have enough capability to deter a regional threat and also project their capability to take care of extra-regional threats.
India cannot laterally expand its influence beyond its western borders due the existence of geo-political impediments in addition to the geographical restrictions placed by the presence of Pakistan. Expansion of its influence towards the east is impeded due to the large geographical lay of China. Myanmar can provide India with limited ability to expand towards South East Asia. She attempted to undertake such a venture but due to its internal upheaval in adjoining areas failed to take timely advantage. Chinese influence in Myanmar has in the meantime increased manifold which may limit future Indian endeavours. Therefore the only direction it may be able to expand its influence is towards the vast expanse of sea in the south.
As per the perceived US game-plan for India, garnering of a seaward influence is likely to be supported by the US and West. This fact is corroborated by increased number of Indian naval exercises with navies of US and other western nations in recent years. The plan seeks India to act as a countervailing force against China, as a milkman to sustain US economy while competing with Chinese economic progress and to stabilize regional disputes with limited force projection capability.
India may become a strong economic power and be able to generate fair bit of economic influence in all those countries which are its trading partners and may also be able to exercise fair bit of negativity against Pakistan and China in this domain. However, it’s overall power projection and generation of influence in the key regions would still remain limited unless it drastically improves relations with both Pakistan and China. It also highlights the importance of strategic nature of Pak-China relationship.
US follows a two pronged strategy against China, what some analysts term as “Contaigement” (Containment and Engagement). China counters this through application of a multi-faceted direct and indirect strategy. The engagement aspect does not irk both US and China to the extent of it being positive. Some of the major facets employed by China to counter the containment are; enhancement of politico-economic and military cooperation in key world regions, development of its military capability and seeking multiple trade corridors. Pakistan can offer major cooperation in many of these facets and thus emerges as a crucial player in facilitating for China a safe alternative outlet in to the global strategic zones.
China developed eastern Chinese region as a deliberate and well thought out policy. Now that this region has been well on its way to becoming a developed reality, western Chinese region bordering Pakistan is also being developed. The population of western China is close to 300 million people. The closest trade access to the sea for this large set of entrepreneurs is through Pakistan’s Karachi and Gwadar ports linked via Karakoram highway.
Pakistan’s sympathetic leanings towards China is one of the major causes of present trust-deficit between US and Pakistan, since the US in its endeavours to contain China is also eyeing Pakistan’s southern sea ports to acquire its own strategic corridor with links to Central Asian resources and to safeguard its interests. If this assumption is correct then it is quite likely that the US will continue to act as Pakistan’s neighbour for quite some time through its presence in Afghanistan and other regional countries and its projected withdrawal from Afghanistan is likely to remain restricted to end of combat operations.
In the 1960s, US attempted to follow the strategy of Pivotal Statecraft with regard to India and Pakistan. The strategy entailed that as US had influence and leverages in both India and Pakistan, it could manipulate or coerce both countries to find solutions to bilateral problems, under US auspices. However, the attempt failed as India had an alternative in the form of Russia and Pakistan looked for Chinese support. Apparently, US is attempting to follow a similar strategic posture again. Interestingly, in the ensuing geo-political environment India has no other entity to align with except the USA, whereas Pakistan can still lean towards China and frustrate US desires.
Pakistan therefore sits at the cross-roads of strategic interests of major world powers – an unenviable predicament or an enviable opportunity! Pakistan’s security and prosperity in the future therefore depends in a large way on how it exploits this geo-political tangle vis-à-vis these major contenders. It is here that Pakistan’s ability to generate a cooperative response from the great powers would be tested. Pakistan may not and should not become a party to any of the big powers and use its influence to generate a cooperative and all-supportive environment for future stability of the region. Pakistan’s decision makers must appreciate the strength Pakistan has placed itself in, despite the impediments and must not loose this strategic advantage. The success of Pakistani grand strategy depends upon its ability to manipulate co-relation of contending powers to its own advantage.
Filed under: China, India, Pakistan, USA · Tags: China, India, Pakistan, US
91 Responses to "Pakistan’s Geopolitical Dilemma China Or US: Viewpoint From Pakistan – Analysis"
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Good analysis!
I’m pretty certain this kind of thinking is exactly what has nearly made Pakistan a failed state right now. What makes me particularly despondent is that I don’t think the leaders of current Pakistan have better ideas either, ideas that would actually bring peace and prosperity to their country and to the region.
[...] Pakistan’s Geopolitical Dilemma China Or US: Viewpoint From Pakistan – Analysis [...]
Given the vast amount of shared culture between the two nations, Pakistan and India should be better allies. The interests of the two countries overlap much more with each other than with either US or China.
Excellent analysis. Clearly a dispassionate viewpoint which is closer to reality and is certainly appealing. The only way India can grow out of its regional imbroglio is through cooperation with the regional countries and not through posing as a Sicilian clan boss.
If saudi family fascists-”protectors” tell Pakistan to lick China’s boots then the pakistanis will do that.
If saudi family fascists-”protectors” tell Pakistan to lick USA’s boots then the pakistanis will do that too.
Piaggio should know where the real tribe/clan/family bosses sit.
In the DT there is an aricle about how pakistanis would have treated the Davis case if there had been an arab, esp. a saudi one, involved instead.
Hello dear Pakistanis,
I am doing some research on Pakistan! I would be grateful for any pointers, especially links, to any literature on feudal-military alliance in Pakistan!
I would also appreciate your views on the subject!
Basically I would like to know, in what way is the Pakistani military dependent on the feudals? Why doesn’t the Pakistani Army one simply say, that they are introducing land reforms and do away with all the feudals!
Obviously nothing like this is on the cards, so I want to know what stays Pakistani Army’s hand! Why is the Pakistani Military protective of the Pakistani feudals?
Sorry if it is off-topic! Thanking you for all your help!
Cheers,
George K.
It actually is a good article. I dont understand why some dont talk about what is written in the piece and rather attempt to slight Pakistan. Apparently these are Indian nationals or Indians living abroad. Wow expression of such hatred – it is unbelievable. The Europeans, Americans and others are trying to help Pakistan and obviously they have their interests. But such hatred is really unbelievable. Viva La Maria.
Roger, obviously you are not exposed to the history of formation of India and Pakistan, the entire story needs to be explored from that angle. We may not be the positive characters in the plot but are certainly not villains!!
cheers
It is a good review of American project for South-central Asia and it has been works since early ninties after the demise of Soviet Union. It was the time for “New world order”, “New American century” and “Full spectrum dominance”. There were other grand concepts as to how world should be shaped under American leadership and guidance. There was the European Union and recasting NATO as global security organization. The alliance for democracy and color revolutions had their day in the sun. Then there was 911 and the application of shock and awe. Here we are twenty years later, properly awed; perhaps ready to take stock world we live in.
We live in a world where international law is in shambles, the concept of state as agreed in treaty of Westphalia is no more, United Nations is laughing stock of the world, human rights have more acceptance so is the case with torture. Technology and communication are the bright spots helping the masses. Coming back to American project, it is quite simple in fact. It is to have corporate state structure like it was built in Japan and very successfully. It is being done in China, as we speak. If it is repeated in other countries, they can also share the prosperity with their people. This is what American leadership provides and also assures full spectrum dominance. What is your problem? Japanese mushroom clouds, any one!
Countries are states no more, they are markets and resources. If you have good products, consumers will break you door to get it. The resources are labor and commodities. It is natural commodities that are in greater demand. Just look at wages against prices of natural commodities. So, nobody wants to take over highly populated countries, just only those with natural resources.
In South Asia, India has been blocked by Pakistan and then America has blocked Pakistan from free access to energy resources, and that flow is allowed to West only. Both countries need significant amount of energy for their economic growth. There was the solution of Nuclear energy but after Fukushima it is doubtful proposition for densely populated countries.
Despite all the issues between India and Pakistan, here is an issue where they should tell NATO to unblock the flows of energy to the area. Does India has the guts. This is my proposal to both sides and even half brains could understand.
Mr Parvez,
Your comments vey aptly compliment the excellent article written by Mr. Khan. Even if India have guts it needs to improve its relations with both Pakistan and China to gain from display of guts. Pakistan is better placed to display its guts but for its internal imbroglio. For China to display its guts it needs to look for an alternative to the almost trillion dollar trade with America. For Americans to display guts means admission and complimentory activity to forestall and still take advantage of her diminishing full spectrum dominance capability.
Very complex environment – arent they!
Very good piece indeed. US will not allow India to change the balance of power in Afghanistan as Pakistan is the balance. It is not only Afghanistan, it is Iran as well which Americans take it as a destabilizing factor in the region. Also, the Central Asian Region, easy access to which is only through Pakistan. And, like Mr. Khan indicates in his article that Pakistan is also the geopolitical pivot which provides access to the Chinese into the strategic zones. Alas, India can not do all this – least of all without Pakistan’s support – if at all.
Pasting comments from Dr Stuart Jeanne Bramhall on this piece. Appreciation from such a person speaks volumes about this article and the author…….
Dr Stuart Jeanne Bramhall
March 23, 2011 at 10:13 pm
Wow, brilliant post. Extension of the US war into Pakistan has never been about chasing terrorists – it’s about gaining strategic control of energy resources.
The Pentagon/CIA make no secret of their desire to see energy and mineral rich Balochistan secede from Pakistan to become a US client state – just like energy and mineral rich Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and the other former Soviet republics. Moreover there’s no that CIA-sponsored BLA terrorism is responsible for much of the violence in the border region – especially around the Chinese-built port in Gwadar, Pakistan (employed to offload Iranian oil destined for China). Given that Iran and China are major political/economic rivals, it’s a pity the US corporate media fails to report on any of this.
I blog about this at “Our CIA freedom fighters in Pakistan”
http://stuartbramhall.aegauthorblogs.com/2011/03/07/our-cia-freedom-fighters-in-pakistan/
Robert,
Thanks. Yes, the world is complex as human behavior is complex. Once you start looking at macro level and analyze the actions rather than declarations, the things become much easier to understand.
All interstate relations are composite of conflict and cooperation, and mature relationships take that into account. India-Pakistan relationship is not mature because it only based on conflict and ignores possibilities of beneficial cooperation. So when I put forward my proposal on energy, it is good for both. Notice that none of Indians has even commented on it.
The press has underplayed the impact of Fukushima disaster. Look at French, they are already in oil grab war.
Robert,
You wanted some pointers regarding Feudal military relations. The real context is state as it uses land to control the country. You could start with land tenure system under Mughal, and British rule in India. It has always been a system of patronage and revenue. State gives the rights over land in return for payments in cash or kind but the significance of land revenue over time has gone down as commerce and industry have grown. There are many publications on land revenue and tenure.
With urbanization, the patronage system has changed to giving out contracts in commerce and services. There is also much greater value in urban land and it is extensively used in handing out favors.
I think the political discourse on Feudal system is a proxy for the divide between those who own property and others who don’t.
Parvez,
thanks a lot for your insight!
It was me who posed this question, and not Robert.
So should I conclude that the feudals, those whom you call Waderas/Zamindars/Sardars, have themselves NO REAL influence over the Pakistani military?!
I think, I understand the Military-Mosque alliance quite well, and how both nurture each other, but somehow I am not being able to come to grips with the military-feudal alliance. The Feudals are not even paying taxes which could have been used in the defense budget. So how do the Zamindars/Waderas/Sardars win the favor of the military?
Patronage may be the case when the Army is giving out land grants to its officers, as reward for service or being well networked! That seems to be a different case.
It is just that this military-feudal alliance, everybody speaks of, I find it hard to find any logic in it!
I hope I could convey to you my dilemma!
George,
Sorry I mixed you up with somebody else. In any case, here is how I look at:
In Pakistan, The state is run by establishment which includes military, Judiciary, bureaucracy. Then you have media and political class. They all have their interests.
There are hardly any direct taxes. Most of the tax collection is indirect taxes as sales taxes and income tax is on salaried class with fixed visible income.
Feudal class has great influence in rural areas but they are also part of the elite and get elected to the parliament on regular basis. Even if they are a third of the parliament, they can block any additional taxation. This is the same as in western countries for example the French farmers.
In Pakistan it is nothing like Military Industrial complex. The problem in fact is that GOP can not say no to any strong vested interest.
Feudal mindset does create tendency of barbaric behavior and they are afraid of Army coming in to set them straight. So they salute the superior force and protect their properties.
Parvez,
again thanks a lot for your response.
So one could say, that the feudals are a separate constituency in Pakistan, which neither profits from the Army (other than the general security it provides) nor contributes to Army’s strength (other than the general deference a hyena would show to the lion in a jungle). Pardon the analogy!
In this case the Military-Feudal equation seems to be of a different nature than the Military-Mosque alliance, for the latter is more of a symbiosis.
Parvez,
George K. is just another of my handles! With western sounding handles it is far more easier to have a decent conversation with a Pakistani.
Thanks for the info, nonetheless!
Bakiakl
I have no problem with having a conversation with anybody so long they are civil.
I dont know the reason why main-stream Pakistani media doesnt print such such excellent articles.
Parvez, your comments are very good indeed. We all should somehow impress upon our media to print such convincing stuff which highlight the environment in such fluidity and aptness.
excellent yaar.
A good article and is useful for future reference. Is it still uptdate?
The lines are being drawn in the libyan’s desert for the next world war!The exhausted super power of the world under its kenyan american President has suffered setbacks in Afghanistan and though physicaly and financialy fully broke is again on the march together with its rag tag ex colonialists European Govts., and is taking steps to ensure proprietry rights of the black tar of the arabian desert. China is being targeted for energy denial.
The industrial jiant Japan is melting away, the USA is bankrupt with trillion of dollars loans and is making the last effort to revive its weapon industry by firing off hundreds of T missiles, hoping to recover the costs direct from the libyan oil money deposits in the States.
We are living in the period of the fall of the great Super power and simultaneously witnessing the emergence of Asian Power China which is receiving one hundred percent support from the technical innovation power house of Europe, namelyGermany. A historical moment but full of turbulances. The USA is taking precautions not to make any further foot prints in the muslim world, but the CIA boots are already in the Libyan desert. CIA people apparentlydo no longer wear boots which leave foot prints? Robert Gates is probably happy, he is a broken secretary of Defence.
Rex Minor
Rex Minor:
Are you the one also posting in Reuters Pakistan blog? Since you seem to be knowledgeable about Germany, what is your views about my feeling that Germany is moving away from Anglo-Americans towards Russia. This would be a major shift in geopolitical alignments.
Parvez,
Here is my two cents to your query …….
To fully understand this situation, one needs to divorce Russo-German politics from EU-German politics. The two are quite different things.
Germany presently relies on Russia to supply a whole third of its oil and gas supplies. According to the European Commission, Russia supplies about a quarter of Europe’s gas, while Europe accounts for approximately 40 percent of Russia’s total gas exports. Many European countries are entirely dependent on Russian gas.
In September 2006 in an agreement was signed between Russia and Germany to link the two countries by routing a strategic pipeline direct from the Russian town of Babayevo to the coast at Vyborg, thence under the Baltic Sea to the town of Greifswald in northeastern Germany. This pipeline will bypass not only the Baltic countries, but, crucially, Ukraine and Poland, delivering gas to Western Europe through the gateway of Germany. The pipeline was supposed to be completed by 2010.
As long as Germany and Russia remain friends, Germany will have the power to control the gas flow from Russia to EU nations. The EU draws a quarter of its energy needs from Russian sources. This is a powerful strategic tool for Germany to possess in bargaining with other EU nations. Just as the Germans have ensured that they control the gates on the much-used canal and river routes from East to West Europe, they will hold the whip hand when it comes to controlling the supply of gas as well.
Experts have warned gas exporters to Europe that they will face increasing competition from alternative sources of energy as well such as liquefied natural gas. This in turn, has raised questions about the economic viability of the expensive pipeline projects being built for the European market.
Recently, the former Germany foreign minister, Joschka Fischer, proposed integrating three major gas pipelines planned by European companies to reduce Europe’s dependence on Russian imports.
It has been reported, that combined, the three pipelines, once completed, could supply Europe with about 53 million cubic meters of gas per year.
However, Gas consumption in Europe was 470 billion cubic meters in 2010 and is expected to surge to more than 600 billion cubic meters over the next 25 years. Therefore Russian and German and Russian influence over energy supply to Europe will take time to reduce – if at all.
Very good article and equally good discussion barring a few non-serious comments.
@Parvez
With due to respect to Khalid’s comments, there was no substance about the CDU and FDP Govt. decision to abstain in the securty council vote. This was simply a ploy to influence the coming important elections in two German states. This action together with a moritorium of three months on aging nuclear energy reactors ,was not accepted by the voters as genuine and the election was lost.
By and large the CDU party kow tows American God father and would have liked to support the ex colonialists but the timing was not right and hence the zik zak policy which did not work.
Rex Minor
PS
Both the Napolian Bona Part and Frau Merkle are now set to loose the next elections.
good one.
One of the best such pieces I have read in recent times. Very nice.
Marvelous indeed. Haven’t read anything better in recent times. The author has an in-depth understanding of geopolitical environment and has explained these flawlessly. A must read for those interested and even if not interested in analyzing such happenings.
Pakistanis have a religion which teaches them to bootlick arabs, esp. the rich-reactionary saudis.
So saudis decide to whom the Pakistanis have to offer themselves as “friends”, bootlickers, minions, mischief-makers, mental slaves – to USA or China or North Korea or whoever else. But the saudis are the real masters. That is all there is about Pakistan’s so-called “clever” geopolitics.
Revelation-based religions are basically irrational and dictatorial (fascistic).
Saudis are interested in spreading an irrational fascistic religion (a faith system for dominating over and misusing human beings of low intelligence) all over the globe with Pakistan as its tool and mischief-maker. Pakistanis are only promised seats in the “heaven” of the arab god for doing this “holy” work. That is Pakistan’s geo-politics. They are planning for the day when hindus will be exterminated in the whole of the indian subcontinent (ISC) in order to please the arab god. In the Pakistan part of the ISC they have already achieved this goal with great pride.
viva,
You remarks are racist and against our religion. Please delete them. Admins are reuested to please ban this gentleman for making inflamotry and highly anti-religious remarks against Islam. Thanks you.
We must understand the hatred and Hindu zehniyat against Pakistan and Islam. This viva fellow is a living example of spreading such hatred which most Indian Hindus and those hindus who are living abroad have for us. We can not have peace in this region unless such hatred by these Indian Hindus remain. Pakistan Zindabad.
to naeem and qasim
I am actually writing what many pakistanis also write or say or think. I read pakistani newpapers and from them I know what islam is about and what it wants and what many {EDITED} self-ruination and export of violence for the sake of this ideology.
Admins,
Please remove the highly offensive anti Muslim posts by viva. Ban the individual. Please do not allow this site to be a place for very very offensive anti religious diatribe by bigoted non-entities. PLEASE.
@Viva
That you compare an Ibrahimic religion which emanated in the middle east with an extreme -right wing totalitarian political system, which came about in Italy under Massolini and later polished up by Hitler is pathetic and shows th level of intellect God almighty has bestowed upon you. There are many other fellow travelers like you on “Pakistan now or never” Reuters Blog, who are most of the time blowing in the wind. No substance but critic on Pakistan as a country and its citizens. There are a number of zombies, soulless people among them, who left India to seek assylum for one or other reason including those whose familes were massacred by Indra Gandhi adventure with the minority populaton of sikhs,who somehow claim to believe in one God.
Let me , as a non Pakistani summarise my anology of Pakistan citizens. The fact that they are believers of Islam with all their imperfectness is the most precious God given gift they possess. They are enlightened people and have the blessing of God almighty and are definitely prepared for the challenges of time to come. I must admit here that their Govt. is behind times and still dragging their feet in the past colonial times. The non believers of India on the other hand are in a pretty bad shape, considering that Islam has been in their midst for centuries and yet many millions continued to stay outside the realms of Islam. How could one even try to explain to them the purpose of life? The strategic intrests of their Govt. is mainly based on capitalism and less on social welfare of people, secular democracy but with entrenched caste system it is faulty and is going to lead them on the path of others who have perished before them. Today’s corporate America is no example either where democracy does not function and the law and order is in taters because of mismangement of several decades. India has a large slave population and America has a large prison population and employees . Millions of Indian slave labour perhaps go unnoticed in the country of more than a billion but not ignored in the western world. The Indian labour minister calls them bonded labour and a curse which must be removed, is unparallel in modern world. I could compare it with fascism and disregard the growth statistics of Indian economy on account of slavery made up of men, women and children.
Rex Minor
Well said Rex.
to nasir
I have the right to express myself as per my experiences and analysis -whether anyone likes it or not. If my honesty is disliked, so be it.
Fact is: Pakistan is actually enthusiastically confirming my conclusions. Islam is offensive to everyone. It is an offensive/aggressive ideology since the earliest times. And muslims are taught to be proud of this.
The actual results – that is what counts – in the islamic world confirm its totalitarian and imperialist and arab-centric nature. Instead of trying to silence me why not try to examine and change that?
Flatterers are never the true friends. I don’t want to live as anyone’s (even your arabic allah’s or his so-called messenger’s) bootlicker.
to rex
I never compared abrahamic religions with Mussolini or Hitler. Abraham got this idea of declaring that there is only god and this god has given him special rights to snatch land and people. This idea is making itself merry through all kinds of fascisms and imperialisms since then, and the worst among them is in the form of islam. Even the monotheists are bitterly fighting among themselves about this god and that god and what he said to whom. Is that not nonsense? How long to tolerate this deceit and self-deceit?
I am not bothered about India, Pakistan, USA, hindu religions, islam christianity etc. – I am worried about the dishonesty that is forced upon us everywhere, especially in the name of some god or messenger or “holy” person or faith or sentiments.
In your post you have simply confused many issues into one another. Neither islam nor muslims understand mankind’s problems nor have any valid humane solutions for these problems. But self-deceit and self-glorification are their hallmarks. This is how fascism functions in its least violent form – through deceit and self-deceit. And when deceit and self-deceit don’t function then it resorts to violence. That is what ALL islam-based societies are manifesting.
I know you will not like my honesty. But if you prefer flattery then you will become greater nuisances.
The mere fact that the post above has generated a very useful and candid response from all those who read this post, one can conclude that the author has made an endeavor to put across his view point very forcefully and objectively.
At least someone has taken an initiative to speak on the subject which very pertinent today and needs to pondered upon. Pakistan stands at crossroads to make its choices.
But unfortunately those who are decision makers have the least knowledge of geopolitics and international relations. Barring the army, no one has been really groomed to read the battle lines being drawn against us and draw own defence lines or a potent strategic response.
I hope Mr Khan would continue to update his readers, specially in the aftermath of the recent CIA-ISI almost failed talks in the US and their likely outcome, or fallout if I am allowed to say, on the future of US strategy and Pakistan’s response. Should we focus more on China now or cling to our current failed policies?
@ Viva
I am sure you are expressing your honest views, but defamation of the father of Ibrahimic religions is uncalled for! You are also not aware of what fascism is, nor of those familes who suffered on account of fascism. There are always tendencies towards fascism in politics, mostly in the western world, but let us pray that this evil we do not witness.
I could agree with you that muslims (not Islam) do not understand mankind problems nor have any valid human solutions for these problems. This is Godly, one could speculate and read the media, but to read the minds of billions is a mamoth task. Your conclusions are, however, faulty. Islam based societies are not manifesting violence, but resistance in the face of the imperial colonialist forces. You most probably are of the opinion that Bush onslaught in Iraq was to find a large golf place, or the one before in Afghanistan was to take a stroll in the lush orchards of the beautiful valleys which take one’s to the Pamir mountains. And, perhaps the NATO partnership with the evil in Afghanistan and now in Libya , is some sort of a joint venture to look for new energy sources or a simple mlitary exercise. Do you know what a T missile is, hundreds of which were fired by the US Navy? I shall tell you what they are , a coded signal for war. And you are talking about the violence mainfested in the Islam based societies. Be careful, you used the word HONESTY to describe about your views.
Now tell us what sort of violence disturbs you, the thousands who are dying now in Japan on account of the earthquake and radiation, more than millions who died in Iraq nd Afghanistan or the one who are dying in Libya today with precise areal bombardment or those who died on account of the Israeli invasion in the Arab land, or those few deaths which occured in Afghanistan or those who are dying in the name of terrorism in Pakistan.
You have to come forward and name the violence which is being caused by Islam based societies is genuinely bothering you. I deliberately left the kashmiri muslims out who are being persecuted by the Indian military.
Now tell me the reason of your blaming the victims rather than the culprits who have assumed themselves the role of a world policeman and hae caused directly or indirectly the stability of many countries, most of whom have to be the muslim countries. Leave Islam aside, should it not be the duty of humanity to start a nonviolence protest against foreign occupation of lands and its resources? OR tell me of your honest proposal or a magical formula how peace can return to humanity. Believe you me , even muslims feel pain when innocent people become the victims of violence. I forecast that Resistance is unlikely to stop, resistance against violence and resistance against injustice.
Have a nice day!
Rex Minor
@Rex:
“Let me , as a non Pakistani summarise my anology of Pakistan citizens. The fact that they are believers of Islam with all their imperfectness is the most precious God given gift they possess. They are enlightened people and have the blessing of God almighty and are definitely prepared for the challenges of time to come……”
Do you think Aasia Bibi (and her co religionists) shares your view?
What is her fault?
rex minor
“The non believers of India on the other hand are in a pretty bad shape, considering that Islam has been in their midst for centuries and yet many millions continued to stay outside the realms of Islam. How could one even try to explain to them the purpose of life?”
Rex, are you trying to be a funny guy or what?
@Mythbuster
When I was a child, I asked a question and had the answer from my parents and the school teacher. And when they could not answer I got the replythat God knows the answer. I have lived throughout with the dilemma that at a certain juncture there is no defnite straight answer to things which we experience. We study and research but always come up with something which has no logic or explanation, and we the believers say that God knows the best.
I was not on the motorway in Germany when a sudden sand storm came and within seconds the visibility was limited to few metres, causing death and destruction of an unimaginative proportion on the motorway. Not to forget that on German motorways there is no speed limit per say.One of my friends in Holland cancelled his visit to the shopping centre and escaped death from a young man, who went bezirk and started shooting at innocent shoppers and upon police arrival shot himself.
Can any one explain this phenomina which is occuring around the world? Today we are witnessing live on the 24 hr cable network violence across in most parts of the world and with intervals watch hollywood films made up of stories with aliens and violence.
I could not dare even tell Aasia bibi that her husband was negligent to go about without a guard, despite the fact that he was a Minister. I could also blame the Zardari Govt. for providing no security in islamabad and tell him to take his person and log stock and barrel of forein embassys and CIA operatives and take the Waziris threat seriously, who vowed sometimes ago vengence against the military establishment and Islamabad, if Pakistan military continues to intrude in their territory.
This dilemma cannot be explained to the victim, sure or should I repeat the words of Obama for the Arizona and the America Nation when a single culprit attacked the innocent senator and the crowd and cut them down like a heard of chickens? do you recall his words, I do not want to write his philosophy. The same man who is keeping nnoent muslims in the Guetanamo prison, despite his promise to close it and bring the prisoners before a cicil court, is fighting two wars and recently ordered to send hundreds of Tmissiles into Libya to save the civilian population?
Do you have an explanation for killing innocents? My answer, God knows the truth and the fact that most of them who die turn out to be innocents. I am not going to come up with the popular phoby of blaming the religion or the theologist priests, madrassas etc. You are definitely more intelligent to follow this dumb explanation. Human psychology does not recognise a single cause of the explosion in human mind as well. Perhaps God almighy may grant us the knowledge one day to find out what triggers the act of violence or mass violence in humans to commit such an act. too much calcium in certain parts?
Rex Minor
@non communal
Then tell us what is the purpose of life, other than that we are used to it now? I was not joking? My comments were with humility, despite Indian attacks on Pakistanis, and are not intended to belittle any one.
Rex Minor
rex minor
“Then tell us what is the purpose of life, …? ”
Purpose of life? That’s a loaded question, I am not sure this article is a suitable forum for that discussion.
“My comments were with humility, despite Indian attacks on Pakistanis, and are not intended to belittle any one.”
Your comments are not with humility. Non-believers in India are in pretty bad shape because they have stayed outside the realms of Islam. Those who say what you are saying but without your “humility” are at least more honest. I don’t want to get into a boxing match about which faith is true and perfect and which ones are not and corrupted and all that bullcrap. But do you realize if Islam or any other faith is sometimes derided it is exactly because of sentiments like these? Why talk like a 9 year old, my Daddy is the best?
To rex
You wrote:
“Islam based societies are not manifesting violence, but resistance in the face of the imperial colonialist forces…………………I deliberately left the kashmiri muslims out who are being persecuted by the Indian military.”
My answer:
1) Islam itself is an expansionist-imperialist hegemonial ideology in theory and practice. Islam means mental slavery under a 7th century mohammadan god concept. Why should we accept Mohammad’s god as everyone’s god? Not everyone wants to be a mental slave of Mohammad’s god. What manipulation are the kuran and the agents of this god undertaking to bring all human beings in this mental slavery? Have you quislings of islam thought about that from this angle? Or do you take the Islamic self-glorifying propaganda as the only and final truth?
2) Who is instigating the quislings of islam (a non-kashmiri ideology from Arabia) in Kashmir to take on the Indian military? Why are those agents of sunni fascism and expansionism who are carrying out this instigation sitting safely in Islamabad and elsewhere in Pakistan? Is it a sign of responsible humane behavior to instigate young people to provoke a state’s armed forces (police or army)? How is the “holy islamic” Pakistani military dealing with the Baloch? With rose petals? Why is that same “holy Islamic” army soft on certain groups of muslim terrorists (army’s assets!)?
3) The liberation of Kashmir means foremost freedom from this non-kashmiri imported religion from Arabia and this cynical instigation from Pakistan. Some in Kashmir are so deluded by the two. It would be most irresponsible on the part of India to hand over Kashmir to the sunni fascists. It will be a far greater human tragedy than what is being instigated by Pakistan in Kashmir. And don’t forget that violence was deliberately introduced into the Kashmir conflict by pakistani muslims on 21. Oct. 1947. It is the Pakistani muslims who started it and they had a heinous plan why they did it.
@Rex:
I couldn’t care less what happened to you as a child or on the Autobahn.
Simply answer the question, what is Aasia Bibi’s fault? (Note she is a poor christian woman facing a death sentence for blasphemy).
Aasia Bibi is a poor PAKISTANI (christian or not) woman facing a death sentence for SUPPOSED blasphemy against an alien ARAB imperialist god-concept exported from Makkah.
But Pakistan is a quisling state – so no good/safe future for Aasia and the like.
@mythbuster
No it is not Aasia bibis fault that she is a believer of christian faith and have to face this lawlessness in Pakistan!!!. In my view she is as innocent as a new born child and this should be recognised by the Govt. of the day.
The country which allows a death sentence is not an Islamic State.
You will not kill, is the commandment of God and this is not adhered to in Pakistan. You must fearme and no one else, is also the commandment of God. Mr Sardari and Mr Gillani and co. are made up of fearful material. They are fools or probably fear even their own shadows and CIA security people. The fact that most muslim’s ancestors in India were non believers, infidels, hindus and buddhists, is no reason to behave like an impotent bunch. They wanted democracy and an Islamic Republc, they have it now and should learn to govern. In a country where a CIA operative can have a car drive and and in the daylight shoot down two motorcyclists and get away with it, there is no safety for any one.
People in Pakistan need to accept that theirs is an Islamic State and demonstrate to the world that they have more respect for the humans versus their neighbours, who are still obsessed with caste system, discrimination and death of muslims and christians in their communities. There are many incidences of death of christians and forced conversion to hinduism in India than the stories of Aasia bibi and secterian strifes in Pakistan. Pakistan has the opportunity to follow Prophet Mohamad’s teachings, I have my religion and you keep yours.
Rex Minor