Pak Tea House » human rights, Judiciary, violence » The Pro Rape Society
The Pro Rape Society
Raza Habib Raja
Today the Supreme Court acquitted the rape suspects in the internationally famous case of Mukhtaran Bibi. For the last many years the case had captured the imagination of the country and had also propelled Pakistan in the international spotlight and as usual for all the wrong reasons. The brave stance by an illiterate woman highlighted several deeply controversial aspects of Pakistani patriarchal society and its disgusting treatment to women. The case highlighted the deeply flawed tribal “justice” system which in its essence is based on eye for an eye doctrine and is therefore completely divorced from modern day notions of human rights. The case also underlined the complete lack of understanding on the part of the society which women who are unfortunately raped in Pakistan face. Instead of punishing the perpetuators, the tendency of the society is to generally blame the woman. In this case however Mukhtaran Bibi was actually sentenced to be raped by a Jirga and today it seems has been raped again through the decision made by the apex court in Pakistan. Throughout the long ordeal, Mukhtaran Bibi got fame and global respect but not even in one instance got what she was looking for: Justice. The tribal court sentenced her and formal legal system acquitted those who had initially carried out the “justice” served by the tribal court.
There are some people who are calling the Judiciary as “Pro Rape”. I do not agree with this assessment because the entire system as well as society has a strong predisposition against the raped woman. It is not Judiciary but the entire setup. Judiciary only makes a decision on the base of evidence presented. Let us not forget that first pressure on a woman who is raped is to keep silent for the sake of maintaining family “honour”. This pressure is emanating from our male dominated set up which tries to gauge respect in terms of female chastity. It is extremely rare that a woman musters up enough courage to seek legal recourse. That decision is often very difficult to take because instantly it pushes her under negative spotlight and leads to negative publicity if her rape has not been a widely known incidence. In case it is already known then the existing negative reputation is further intensified. So the first pro rape disposition comes from the society and its general mindset. This obsession of measuring “honour” through female chastity becomes a huge hindrance preventing the raped woman from seeking justice.
Secondly even if the woman some or the other musters enough courage and is supported by her family, then the legal system actually expects her to provide concrete proof. In criminal cases, evidence is strongly needed and it becomes extremely difficult for the woman to come up with such evidence. In fact the Hudood ordinance actually expected a raped woman to produce 4 male witnesses which in practice was impossible. Consequently it turned victims into criminals in the eyes of law. A raped woman for the fear of being treated as criminal would simply not report. In fact there are several incidences where rape resulted in unwanted pregnancy which in turn resulted in the raped woman being put behind bars. Hudood Ordinance virtually made consensual sex and rape indistinguishable in the eyes of law. The Hudood Ordinance which was subsequently replaced by Women’s Protection Bill in 2006 was a huge anomaly in the legal system and contained perverse incentives for all the prospective rapists. It was shameful that state was instrumental in actually implicitly promoting rape. The state law and the Judicial system with overemphasis on “proof” became a de facto accomplice with the rapists. In 2006 finally the black ordinance was amended and rape was brought under Pakistan Penal Code which was based on civil law and not Shariah. The amended bill, at least in theory, eliminated the need of producing four male witnesses to attest that the woman was raped and did not indulge in consensual sex. However even the so called Women’s Protection Bill is under criticism for being more of an eyewash rather than actually changing the status quo.
Our society, its patriarchal structure and the legal system, all contain perverse incentives to rapists. Mukhtaran Bibi’s case in some ways was an opportunity to make concrete changes in the status quo. It was a rare case where a woman took a stand and got international publicity which insulated her from certain pressures which other women regularly face. The international spot light meant that there was, for a change a pressure on the state as well as the judicial system to actually punish the perpetuators instead of the victim.
It had the potential of being a land mark case and had extremely high symbolic importance. By acquitting the five men due to lack of sufficient evidence the apex court has inflicted a huge set back to the women’s rights in Pakistan. I understand that eventually a court decides on the basis of hardcore evidence and perhaps evidence was not enough in this case. But what the honorable court needs to understand is that in rape cases evidence is difficult to collect. In Pakistan there are no sophisticated criminal forensic tools and moreover due to huge social stigma attached with rape, no woman can actually falsely accuse men of rape. In rape cases the normal rules of evidence need to be relaxed.
In the course of history of a nation, some tragedies while being horrific nevertheless also provide it with the opportunity to successfully challenge the deeply imbedded perverse practices. Mukhtaran Mai case was one such case and today we have lost that opportunity to dent the fabric of this pro rape society. If a woman who had the international support behind her cannot get justice, then frankly what is the chance of ordinary women?
Filed under: human rights, Judiciary, violence · Tags: evidence, rape, Raza Habib Raja, woman
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Raza, there is hope for Pakistan in the shape of United Nations’ Resolution 1973. This resolution was passed to allow military intervention in the case of Libya under the doctrine of right to protect (R2P). This idea effectively renders the idea of state sovereignity as an invioable entity moot and establishes the precedent that the United Nations can authorize a military intervention in any country, where the state and its policies are seen as anti-humanitarian.
Pakistan, under United Nations’ Resolution 1973, qualifies for an United Nations sanctioned military intervention to protect the Pakistani citizens’ human rights and to over throw, if necessary, all the instruments of the state which deny human rights in Pakistan.
In simple terms, United Nations Resolution 1973 legally allows for a regime change in Pakistan and the occupation of Pakistan by military forces operating under the legal authority of the United Nations.
ciao
It is impossible for me to read this article without laughing my butt off on some truly naive assumptions.
The SC was hearing a criminal case petition. It was not commenting on the hoopla that surrounded the woman’s rape. In the end, it was a rape case and the High court in Punjab looked at the evidence and made the decision that was upheld by the SC. SC usually don’t look at the evidence and try to verify it. The High Court determined that there was not sufficient evidence to incarcerate all the persons involved. The SC ruled based on the decision already made and determined that based on the evidence presented in the High Court, the decision was correct and upheld it.
Raza Habib, if he had any problem with the decision, should have spoken up when the case was first presented in the High Court in Punjab.
One decision about rape was good enough for this person to invoke a culture of rape in the whole country. Only a person who is completely cut off or has distance himself from the society and the culture of the country would write inane articles like this.
This whole thing against the SC is politics driven and even the criminal cases are measured by nincompoops on the political biases and grudges they hold against the SC.
Rape and murder cases should never go to the SC and it is mistake by the supreme court to allow appeals in all criminal cases.
[...] The Pro Rape Society [...]
@ Rehmat
As usual you are here. This article was not against Supreme Court but against the general prejudices of our society and its laws. The article acknowledges that it was a criminal case.
Kindly read before you actually comment.
@ rehmat
And secondly I understand for a third class person like you, a woman raped and then not gettign justice is a matter of laughing your butt off. In 2005 I was not a writer but had closely followed the case. I have not said that Judiciary has deliberately given a wrong judgement but that in our part of the world rape crimes are difficult to prove but generaly no woman would falsely accuse a man of rape. Therefore the strong evidence requirement need to be relaxed. Plus this case was a potentially land mark case, a fact which all the internationa as well as national press are admitting. I think they are also “divorced” from our society.
What I find really laughable is when people who are expatriates and have chosen to live in USA out of choice, try to teach me patriotism and accuse me of being “divorced” from my society while they themselves do not even bother to live in this society!
But then people like you do not have any calibre
Language is a means to express culture. Culture is a subset of the civilization one inherits. When a language is not reflective of the culture of the land, it brings forth its difficulties. A language which developed with the help of “external” elements will contain the value-systems of those elements. The developed language will not be able to express all that is part of the native-belief system. Moreover, one language following its native-belief systems may raise its speakers to the status of the divine. The another language, following its value systems might just objectify a part of its speakers.
Consider the 4 lines of poetry from Atriji’s private collection
पराया स्वर्ग नरक है सब बेकार
दांपत्य जीवन में सुखी श्रीमती ही मोक्ष का द्वार
यही संसार को बनाये गुणवान
और मनुष्य में जगाये भगवान्
Now, Shrimati elevates the woman of the house to the level of Shri i.e. Laxmi and Mati i.e. Saraswati.
Dampatya means two equal masters of the same path in a conjugal relationship. Since the other “popular language” being discussed derives from a civilization where equal rights may not exactly be bestowed on women, it is difficult to find its replacement.
However, we must not be afraid and continue with our translation of this poem into the “popular language”. But therein arises a problem of finding no words to exactly render the same. Say for example the second sentence.
दांपत्य जीवन में सुखी श्रीमती ही मोक्ष का द्वार will then become:
निकाह के बाद औरत ही दिलाये निजात की राह /nikah ke baad awrat hi dilaye nijaat ki raah.
While we may pardon the dumbing down of “dampatya” to “nikaah ke baad”, but how does one ignore the root of the word “aurat/awrat” which is “awra” which basically means a “private part”. So the translation becomes:
“After marriage, the private part is inded the path to salvation”.
Ouch, there is a problem! We set out to translate some other sentence, but it turned out to be “Apna haath …”
Moreover, if the four lines are translated, what comes up is a blasphemous rendition indeed which extols the reader to ignore heaven and hell and find moksha by discovering the divine within. No doubt it would be a case of “translate karte karte suli par chhad gaya ghalib”.
Very well written! Indeed the state of human rights and Women rights is shameful and deplorable in this country! So depressing.
Raza,
It appears that you have not researched this issue beyond the media hype.
There are serious issues with Mukhtaran Mai’s version of the story of the alleged gang-rape.
Two years ago, after the High Court verdict these issues were summarized by an eminent Lahore-based lawyer in this article,
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/TodaysPri…9&dt=3/30/2009
Even before that, Australian journalist Bronwyn Curran, in the book “Into the Mirror”, raised similar issues. An excerpt from that book was published right here on Pak Tea House.
http://pakteahouse.net/2008/09/19/into-the-mirror-mukhtaran-mai/
You can see from the detailed judgement of the Supreme Court that their decsion was based on the same issues.
http://www.supremecourt.gov.pk/web/user_files/File/Crl.P.163_to_171&S.M.C5_2005.pdf
Your passion for justice is admirable. But it should not be separated from the passion for truth.
@ Krash
Well first of all this article was not doubting the intentions of the Apex court and admitted upfront that Judiciary decides on the basis of evidence present.
The article was mostly attacking the entire system and the severe biases which are against the raped woman starting from the society to legal system.
There are different versions of Ms Mukhtaran case and some of the versions differ from each other. In fact I have admitted in the article also that evidence was weak but also pointed out that in Pakistan it is often not possible for a woman to establish evidence and therefore more weightage should be given to her version. The fact that she was late in filing FIR is hardly surprising as the social pressure on a woman is greater to remain silent rather than speak. The delay has been rather construed as weakening the case. In our part of the world it is understandable that a woman would wait. The victim’s testimony needs to be given more weightage in pakistan. You have provided links here, well you can also check out dawn’s story http://www.dawn.com/2011/04/23/mukhtar-mai-case.html
where they have raised the same point.
The fact is that she was raped and the principal accused has been sentenced also. Now the versions are differing as to whether the co accused were also involved
Now there are various version but no definite “proof”. My article was on the need of giving more weightage to a raped woman story.
Raza,
I fail to understand the thesis of your essay.
You have called our society ‘pro-rape’ . To back that up you cited this case. But you failed to point out any problems with the actual decision or any miscarriage of justice that occured in the judicial process.
Then you cited the Hudood ordinance, but admitted in the end that it has been rendered ineffective now. (It’s a moot point now so I won’t point out your mistakes in describing the Hudood ordinance).
What are left are some vague and unfocused statements. Women have to prove the rape? Is our standard different than that of any other country?
Society is patriarchal? It has always been so and is not uniquely so. Does that mean the world has always been pro-rape? In fact, rape has been a considered a serious crime in all patriarchal societies. It dishonors the men too. Even where the state justice system is weak the perpetrator can expect extra-judicial retribution.
There are many things wrong with our society and there is indeed pervasive injustice. But calling us ‘pro-rape’ is extremist and unjustified.
This comes across more as an unfocused, emotional rant than a reasoned thesis.
@ Krash
Pro rape does not mean that society promotes rape in an explicit manner but rather that due to the social structure it is very difficult for a woman to even seek justice let alone get justice. The severe social stigma attached actually encourages the rapist as he knows that woman will most probabaly keep quiet.
Moreover Hudood ordinance was mentioned as a past anomoly which has only recently become redundant.
Moreover I know that society is patriarchal and is so in many countries but since I am refering to an incidence in Pakistan therefore I will talk about Pakistan.
Raza,
Since you bring up the Hudood Ordinance again let me clarify some misconceptions about it.
1. Hudood Ordinance did not require 4 witnesses for a rape conviction. That requirement was only for the Hadd punishment. People could still be convicted with normal rules of evidence and receive punishments up to 25 years.
2. A woman could not be convicted for fornication if her rape allegation is unproved. That DID happen in one case [Safia Bibi vs State] where the rape allegation was dismissed because of lack of evidence (NOT lack of 4 witnesses) . Then her pregnancy was considered proof of illegitimate sex and she was convicted. But that conviction was thrown out by the Federal Shariat Court and the court clearly stated that a woman alleging rape did not have the burden to prove herself innocent.
The problem with the Hudood Ordinance was that it criminalized consensual sex which was never a crime before. Now a simple allegation of immoral behavior could get a person (man or woman) arrested. If they were poor and could not afford bail they would be locked up indefinitely. This resulted in a large number of poor women being imprisoned on mere allegations. This is the situation that was rectified by the Women’s Protection Bill.
You are right that it is hard to prosecute rape. But that is a failure of the state in implementing the rule of law and society in general is quite frustrated with it.
The stigma associated with rape victims is also a very real problem. People like Mukhtaran Mai have been very courageous in fighting this tradition.
But this alone does not make a society ‘pro-rape’ .
Neither the Mukhtaran Mai case nor the Hudood Ordinance contributes to your thesis which is too sensationalist and emotional and not well thought out.
He distributed young women among his bandits and fighters after killing the brothers, husbands and fathers of these women. The dead were promised 72 young women immediately in the life-after-death. This was the major reason why so many joined him. And it became a formula for successful expansion and imperialism and manipulation over 1400 years.
Women as orgasm-giver (reward) for the killer-warrior and as reproduction machine for the ummah – that is the extra (new?) formula of success today.
Why would they give up these successful formulae?
@ krash
Krash
I think the word “pro rape” is offending you because it seems to suggest that pakistani society advocates rape. It was not to suggest that we advocate rape
Actually the semantics are here getting us all in circles. The way i wanted to say pro rape and you are interpreting are different. What i mean to say by the word pr rape is that a woman once raped has to face huge problems and her chances of getting justice due to social as well as legal reasons are pretty slim. Now that is a fact and Pakistan has been under international spot light for these very reasons.
These difficulties make the set up, both legal and social, “pro rape” in an implicit manner.
. . Mind you various organizations, such as Amnesty have been expressing concern over Pakistan’s record and have been citing Pakistan’s very poor record.
Regarding Hudood ordinance.
Well the wikipedia had a different intrepretation and I am reproducing
“The ordinance is mostly criticized for equiparating the crime of zina (adultery) and zina bil-jabr (rape). As for the zina, a woman alleging rape is required to provide four adult male eyewitnesses. In many cases, the failure to find such proof of the rape places the woman at risk of prosecution for zina.[4][5] Moreover, to prove rape the female victim has to admit that sexual intercourse had taken place.
If the alleged offender, however, is acquitted for want of further evidence the woman now faces charges for either adultery, if she is married, or for fornication, if she is not married. According to a report by the National Commission on Status of Women(NCSW) “an estimated 80% of women” in jail in 2003 were there as because “they had failed to prove rape charges and were consequently convicted of adultery.”[6]”
Likewise BBC also had to say this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6152520.stm
“The Women’s Protection Bill was passed after much wrangling and posturing between the government and the religious opposition.
The bill seeks to amend the heavily criticised Hudood Ordinance laws which govern the punishment for rape and adultery.
Under the controversial Hudood Ordinance, brought in under Gen Zia-ul-Haq from 1979, a rape victim had to provide four male eyewitnesses to the crime. Failure to do so would open the way to her being charged with adultery. ”
Furhter this paper also has similar interpretation
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17270725/Hudood-OrdinanceBy-T-H-Shah
Before writing what I wrote, i had gone through some basic search on the ordinance. Furhter search seems to corrobrate what I said in the article.
However as a professional, I am ready to retract and admit that I was wrong in case proven wrong. I don’t have ego issues.
And last I am sorry if the article appears an angry rant. It was written in anger after the verdict.
to RHR
I had done that and was banned within seconds.
I even got a threat that they will track me down etc. Even the email account used by me was closed by the provider who was told not to allow any critical voices to reach them.
Muslims, by the very nature of their faith, have become a threat to free speech and honest living all over the world now. You really can’t argue with zombies.
And let me tell you something that will not surprise you if you are sociopolitically an intelligent man: it is the muslim liberals or nominal muslims and their assorted non-muslim sympathizers and pity-takers who help protect/multiply these islamofascist, be it unknowingly or involuntarily.
You keep telling us that islam has its good side and that your identity as a muslim is of value to you etc. – thus you create the warm womb (and fertilize it also) from which these fascists take birth.
Mohammad Ali Jinnah is a recent classic example of how even a liberal muslim ends up becoming a provider/server for islamofascists (whether he wanted it or not).
One word in favor or sympathy of islam and that ends up strengthening the islamofascists somewhere somehow. That is the “magic” in this ideology from Arabia.
Re.: Vajra, Hayer, No Communal etc.: I have not read one single solution to Pakistan’s problems coming from them. Because they do not wish to see the fundament and the fountain of this problem or these problems. I read them carefully and saw how they tried to avoid getting to that fundament with clever words or by heaping abuse on me. If my honesty is not welcome or is too difficult for you – so be it.
Tell me how many read the PTH – esp. from among the activist-opportunist quislings of islam in Pakistan (the army, judges, teachers, mullahs, history-writers etc.). If they don’t then it is a waste anyway.
You wrote: “PTH is a moderate website which is committed to cultivate an alternative to state cultivated narrative.”
Then invite the carriers of this pakistani state to interact here and I will only read and watch and send nothing. Don’t just keep hoping that someday they will come and read the PTH.
“I had done that and was banned within seconds.
I even got a threat that they will track me down etc. ”
HaHa! So, this ullu gets his ass kicked at the place where he should be and he comes here to lay his turd.
Viva, Amar,
Have your parents never taught you any manners whatsoever? We have all heard your solutions: that Muslims should convert, blah, blah. If past is any guidance, a village of Mewati Muslims once approached their Hindu neighbors and said that they were willing to go back to Hindu faith on one condition: that the Hindus would be willing to give their daughters in marriage. As expected, their offer was refused. So, in summary, shut the fuck up. Their is a word in Bhojpuri precisely for asses like you: latkhor, which means someone who has so gotten used to being whacked that he wouldn’t listen unless he is given a good thrashing. As you found out, your email and your precise location can be easily tracked.
Thanks Bade Mian
That was a good answer to Mr. Viva
I think people like Viva are bringing a bad name to indians which is so sad as some of the best commentators on PTH are Indians…
People like You, chote Mian, hayer, Gorki, Vajra, no Communal and the list goes on and on..
Regards
Raza
Raza,
I am shocked that the BBC and wikipedia have such flagrantly incorrect information. I don’t blame you for being mistaken when misleading information is so pervasive.
I had researched this issue several years ago when the Women’s Protection Bill was being debated. Let me see if I can revisit those references.
to bade miyan
Get the filthy language out of your head.
To be banned is not the same thing as “getting the ass kicked.”
Islam is a harsh religion and hence my criticism of islam is also harsh. To call it “turd” is part of your mental problem (and fixation on use of filthy words).
Learn to speak decently – that is what your parents taught you (I am sure -decent parents don’t allow their children to use filthy words, even towards enemies.).
I never ever wrote muslims should convert. I have always written that muslims should recognize that islam is an alien primitive arab-imperialist fascist ideology misusing the name of god or the word “god” (hence also a blasphemy). What muslims have to do after recognizing this is their free choice. They can (should) start a new better religion or become atheists (god loves atheists dearly).
“…willing to go back to Hindu faith on one condition: that the Hindus would be willing to give their daughters in marriage.”
Imagine someone comes to you and asks your daughter or sister in marriage as the >first and only< condition for his friendship! Are women to be regarded as chattel to be traded? Very wise of the village hindus that they declined. I congratulate them and thank them for not making deals with women as bargaining chips to be pushed over the counter.
(Imagine a shia or a sunni putting such a only condition on one another. or the afghan tribe 1 putting such a condition on the tribe 2. It would have led to gun-battles and bloodshed.)
I think you chose a bad example and did not think much about it. Can happen. Forget it.
But I can give you some other good conditions and reasons why ex-muslims will not be and should not be accepted into hindu fold and should not want to enter into any hindu fold or caste etc.
But that is another discussion.
to RHR
It surprises me that you thought bade miyan's answer is appropriate and of high quality. I did not expect this intellectual downfall from you. Take care not to go down to that level next time.
It's your personal subjective judgement that Viva brings a bad name to hindus. May be you should hold a referendum among hindus – knowledgeable, informed hindus (not congress voters) – and test its truth value.
As regards …"You, chote Mian, hayer, Gorki, Vajra, no Communal and the list goes on and on.." being the diamonds in the crown of PTH and the pseudo-secular component of India – let's see what future brings.
As yet I have not seen these "diamonds" cutting through the tough metal of islamic totalitarianism-fascism and Pakistan ideology's quislingism, self-deceit and deceit.
Actually, it was not too hard to dig up the references.
Regarding the first point, you can read the Hudood Orinance itself at
http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/zia_po_1979/ord7_1979.html
(use the footnotes to re-insert the items modified by Women’s Protection Bill)
8. Proof of zina or zina-bil-jabr LIABLE TO HADD.
Proof of zina or zina-bil-jabr liable to hadd shall be in one of the following forms, namely:-
(a) the accused makes before a Court of competent jurisdiction a confession of the commission of the offence; or
(b) at least four Muslim adult male witnesses, about whom the Court is satisfied, having regard to the requirements of tazkiyah al-shuhood, that they are truthful persons and abstain from major sins (kabair), give evidence as eye-widnesses of the act of penetration necessary to the offence:
Provided that, if the accused is a non-Muslim, the eye-witnesses may be non-Muslims.
10. Zina or zina-bil-jabr LIABLE TO TAZIR.
(1) Subject to the provisions of section 7, whoever commits zina or zina-bil-jabr which is not liable to hadd, or for which proof in either of the forms mentioned in section 8 is not available and the punishment of qazf liable to hadd has not been awarded to the complainant, or for which hadd may not be enforced under this Ordinance, shall be liable to tazir.
(2) Whoever commits zina liable to tazir shall be punished with rigorous imprisonment for a term which may extend to ten years and with whipping numbering thirty stripes, and shall also be liable to fine.
(3) Whoever commits zina-bil-jabr liable to tazir shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which 14[shall not be less than four years nor more than] 14 twenty-five years and shall also be awarded the punishment of whipping numbering thirty stripes.
(4) When zina-bil-jabr liable to tazir is committed by two or more persons in furtherance of common intention of all each of such persons shall be punished with death.]
Regarding the 2nd point here is a good reference,
http://pkukmweb.ukm.my/elaw/images/stories/zakiah.pdf
Do a search of this document for ‘Safia’
This issue of pregnancy as evidence in convicting and sentencing to ta’zir .
punishment was discussed in several cases. In the case of Mst. Rani- Appelant v. The
State-Respondent,
15
whereby the appellant Mst Rani had been convicted under section
10(2) of the Offence of Zina (Enforcement of Hudud) Ordinance,1979 (which referred
to ta’zir punishment), while sentencing her to undergo rigorous imprisonment for two
years with seven stripes and to pay fine of Rs.1000 or in default to undergo rigorous for
six months.It was decided that:
“i) mere pregnancy is not sufficient to convict a woman for zina especially where she claims the
pregnancy to have been caused due to her rape /zina bil-jabr by man/ men who later stand
acquitted on any ground;
ii) to convict a woman for zina, the prosecution would have to discharge the heavy onus of
proof by bringing forth positive and independent evidence that the woman actually and in fact
had committed zina with her own free will and consent with another man to whom she was not
lawfully married to. In this regard, it may also be stated that the mere proof of pregnancy or
some form of medical testimony/report on its own could be of no consequence as the latter
would at best only to be coroborative in nature.
iii) in the situation as envisaged in (i) above the woman like any other accused is also entitled to
a benefit of doubt.
A similar view was taken in subsequent judgement in the case of Mst. Safia Bibi v.
The State,
16
where the fact of the case are quite similar to the facts in the first case. In
Safia Bibi, a woman alleged rape/zina-bil-jabr committed by an accused male to be the
cause of her pregnancy. The court acquitted the male accused for want of evidence,
however the woman was convicted under s. 10(2) of the 1979 Ordinance on the
grounds that the mere pregnancy was sufficient to find a conviction of zina against her.
On appeal it was held that while dealing with the position of female accused, the Court
came to the conclusion that she should not be convicted for zina when she pleaded
pregnancy as a result of commission of offence of rape on her. “The principle of fiqh is
that she will be asked about someone had committed sexual intercourse with her under
suspicion about her identity, her statement will be accepted and she will not be
convicted. Further if unmarried woman delivering a child pleads that the birth was the
result of commission of the offence to rape on her, she cannot be punished. This view
was held base upon the hadith from the Prophet s.a.w who said:
It means: My people are excused for mistakes, forgetfulness and for anything done
under compulsion). It is reported from Abdul Jabbar on the authority of his father that a
woman was raped and the Prophet s.a.w acquitted her of the charge with Hadd.
Raza,
Actually this brings to mind my major complaint with liberal activists in Pakistan. When they take on a cause with passion they do so on a war footing and turn on the propaganda machine with full force. Truth becomes the first casualty.
While their causes are justified on their own merit they go overboard and spread misleading information. Such tactics can only undermine their causes in the long run and detracts from he important task of building bridges with the rest of the society.
Both the Hudood Ordinance and the Mukhtaran Mai case are an example of this.
As I said earlier, passion for truth cannot be separated from passion for justice.
Dear Krash
The references which i quoted certainly seem to say that a raped women has to produce 4 witnesses. I used that material to write what I wrote. Anyways I will check it out with my younger brother who is a crimnal lawyer.
Secondly I agree with your argument about liberals at times sacrfying credibility in their anti conservative efforts. However, my article though you do not seem to agree was more of a general critique.
@ krash
But I agree that liberals should not sacrifie their credibility in order to just oppose the conservative narrative. In fact soon I will write an article on that. BTW I think you should also write on this topic because I feel that this is needed. In case you find time please write and send it to me on razaraja@yahoo.com. I will be really happy to post it on PTH
@viva
“It surprises me that you thought bade miyan’s answer is appropriate and of high quality. I did not expect this intellectual downfall from you. Take care not to go down to that level next time.
It’s your personal subjective judgement that Viva brings a bad name to hindus. May be you should hold a referendum among hindus – knowledgeable, informed hindus (not congress voters) – and test its truth value.
As regards …”You, chote Mian, hayer, Gorki, Vajra, no Communal and the list goes on and on..” being the diamonds in the crown of PTH and the pseudo-secular component of India – let’s see what future brings.
As yet I have not seen these “diamonds” cutting through the tough metal of islamic totalitarianism-fascism and Pakistan ideology’s quislingism, self-deceit and deceit.”
sharma,
Knowledgeable, informed hindus, not congress voters? Like who? Supporters of Narendra Modi perhaps? amar, Hinduism has a lot of awful things. Like systematic oppression of a whole population over millennia. We haven’t even crossed their shadows, let alone drink water with them. We’ve had some of the most racist, bigoted, and obscurantist forces among us, sometimes sanctioned by our politicians and scriptures. We kill our daughters in the womb, and for ‘honor’ when they are teenagers. In Gujarat and Delhi we have killed in thousands, with government collusion, and some of these demons are still our most popular leaders.
due I am fully aware that we have a long way to go. Yet I don’t like to be insulted all the time, everywhere, especially by rank outsiders who, despite all pretensions, do it for pleasure and ridicule. You are not going to cut through the tough metal of islamic fundamentalism if you are a fundamentalist yourself. I suggest you take a deep breadth, have some fresh air, and approach the problem differently. And use the same approach for the Hara Hara Mahadeo chanting supporters of the butcher from Gujarat.
take a deep *breath*, have some fresh air…
to no communal
You write as if I support(ed) Modi or want(ed) to make missionary activity for some hinduism.
You write: “Hinduism has a lot of awful things.”
TRUE.
But use writing about it on a pakistani forum? In Pakistan (and Kashmir) hindus have been exterminated (decimated) terminally, not so at all in Gujarat or India.
I had said this before also.
To be criticized does not mean to be insulted. That is the wrongest attitude towards criticism. Thank the one ho criticizes you, he is your truest friend and wellwisher.
I had said this before also.
The Hara Hara Mahadeo chanting hindu butchers from Gujarat were merely reacting to the insults and injuries and thefts and arrogances which the agents and quislings of islam had/have inflicted upon them over 800 years. So much patience is actually rare in history. The Somnath temple (dedicated to Mahadeo) was attacked and looted in 12th century 17 times. Your memory seems to have been excessively pro-islamised. According to the islamic narrative the muslims are always the noble innocent-victim party and the non-muslims always the scoundrels and the guilty-perpetrator party.
I had said all this before also. You force me to re-state it.
And then you accuse me of repeating the same things.
Is that accusation fair?
Hi: Viva. You write,”..The Somnath temple (dedicated to Mahadeo) was attacked and looted in 12th century 17 times…”. Let us see! Give me a two reputable writers , preferably well known historians who say that…. Wa Salaam.
viva
What use writing it in a Pakistani forum? Well, they have been writing some pretty nasty stuff about themselves in front of the rest of the world. The target audience may be other Pakistanis, but we are making full use of it to ridicule them, aren’t we?
Some of what you write, I am sure most moderate Muslims in PTH are already aware of. Don’t you think many of them realize that an ideology that is permanently stuck to ancient times cannot sustain itself? Don’t you think they realize that the forces bent on keeping it stuck to 7th century must be vanquished? I see them everyday here trying to do something about it. Which other place have you seen that tolerates so much abuse, so much filth, heaped on them by outsiders?
You want them to unequivocally abondon Islam and call it the most vicious cult ever known to humankind. Well some of them do that too, but don’t expect everybody to do it because it goes against human nature. No matter what India is, no matter how many girl childs are killed in the womb, it’s still my country, my culture. It’s the same with them. Short of that total condemnation of their own identity, own culture, you and your friends will abuse them every which way you can. If that’s your dharmikness, I don’t know what kind of dharmik you are.
Yes, too many temples were razed to ground by Muslim invaders. That’s a historical fact many Muslims themselves recognize. But how long should we continue to detest each other for acts committed centuries ago? Are you saying the barbarity of Gujarat riots were justified on the basis of past Muslim invasions? Or was it Godhra? Even if some Muslims planned and acted in Godhra, how does that justify killing of innocents in thousands in Ahmedabad? Isn’t a mother a mother, a child a child, be she a Muslim or Hindu?
I know to your knowledgeable kind, a person is not innocent as long as he is a Muslim. He should be punished for crimes committed by other Muslims anywhere, sometimes several hundreds of years ago. And you call others fascistic with a straight face. Are you serious?
Raza,
I commend you on your patience. As much as I am a fan of free speech and of no ban on posts, I think we can differentiate between a post, which may be silly or even vulgar, and a spam that is designed to drown out all voices. That begins to infringe on the rights of others. Some rascals here are bent on doing that by repeating the same old lines. I was looking for a post that I wanted to reply to and needless to say, it is probably lost somewhere. I think you should delete posts that are repetitive. I am begining to hear the word “quisling” in my sleep now.
Btw, Bade Miyan and Chote Miyan are one and the same. Chote Miyan comes out only with a rejoinder or a statement designed to rile up someone.
Dear Raza,
I too, second the opinion of Bade Miyan [April 26, 2011 at 12:37 am]. If I may add, it may also be useful to delete all comments that contain overtly indecent and profane language. Retaining such comments contributes in no way to any discussion or debate in any way.
Thank you.
Count me in for the comment deletion too..
I don’t support banning someone but disrupting every thread really has nothing to do with rights to free speech, just such posts should be deleted.