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Criminalize Buying of Sexual Services in Pakistan
By Amna Siddiqui:
A housewife slowly wastes away in the confines of her marriage-home, as her husband spends time under the spell of a prostitute is the ultimate tragedy that comes across in Pakistani drama against the sex industry. It is the inequality argument not so focused on by feminists. This image is not to say that women should have an equal right to male prostitutes. Even if women ended up with enough money and disrespect for the opposite sex to demand a 50-50 male-female ratio in prostitution, it would not solve the exploitive nature of buying sex.
Prostitution is not only inequality because it almost exclusively services men, but also in terms of the harm done to the prostitutes. This is what feminists such as Andrea Dworkin and Catherine Mckinnon have discussed. When people (women, and to a lesser degree men, and children) are sold for whatever amount of time, and however many times a day, it is up to the buyer, to do whatever he likes with the prostitute. Iqbal Hussain’s documentary “Heera Mandi” has some male bias and takes the good-old “liberal” stance that there should be acceptance of prostitution and the children born of prostitution. Starting off by talking about the fantasy and curiosity with which young men go to visit prostitutes the first time, and their possible disillusionment after that is to start off by sympathizing with the newly chauvinist male. Abrar-ul-Haq and Sajjad Ali’s rather “liberal” songs with innuendo about prostitution-going (Bilo te ghar, and Tumhare Aur Mere Ghare Ke Beech Mein Hai lari Adda) serve to the already disproportional freedom granted men in Pakistani society, which ranges from street-harassment to causing a ruckus in melas.
It is often considered rude to swear in the presence of ladies, but is that decency or the fact that swear-words are all about shaming via women? Not only are prostitutes disrespected with harsh words, but the very existence of prostitution is a detriment to women’s status in society. The moment a woman speaks her mind, or shows some sort of liberty, she is interpreted as shameless and called names translating as prostitute. However, as Hussain’s documentary points out, the prostitutes of Heera Mandi have to cover up with chadar when going out on their own, just as any other woman, to protect themselves. How, then, do we think that prostitutes have more liberty to run their mouths as they wish, or roam the streets, when they, too, live confined behind four-walls?
The idea of “Pretty Woman” sort of a happy prostitute is a myth. Tania Fiolleau, a former escort and author of “Souled Out,” talks about escaping domestic violence and then being tricked into prostitution after responding to a job ad. She also denies the myth of the willing prostitutes, by saying that those women enter sex trade under the false impression of glamour. Eventually that glamorous image becomes a mask “as coping mechanisms to overcome the pain inside of them” (www.examiner.com.) Although some women in Hussain’s documentary say that they are proud of their ancestral Mujra Gharana heritage, these women are oppressed similar to, as well as, more than the rest of the women in Pakistan. In the documentary, we see the face of violence against prostituted women. One woman has had her nose cut off, a form of humiliation found in South Asian culture, where the nose is a symbol of honour. In a recent interview, Imran Khan talked about politicians as prostitutes for lacking “ghairat” by selling themselves. The female interviewer immediately interjected with the defence that prostitutes do so out of desperation. First of all, ghairat is a word based on male honour, and the protection of it. Secondly, this kind of blame on the prostitute, takes away blame from the buyer. It is remarkable that Imran Khan, a man, whose philandering ways are no secret, dares to talk of this abusive condition of women, with such hate and degradation.
Hussain’s documentary tells that prostitution is illegal in Pakistan because premarital sex is prohibited under Pakistan’s law. Yet, prostitutes get licenses from the government to sell their bodies. In essence, this allows buyers to procure sex without much legal intervention, while the government also makes money off of women’s bodies sold. A prostitute, in the documentary, questions why the poor prostitutes have to pay for a license, instead of the rich men who have the money to throw away on prostitution.
We saw a few militant Muslim women of Lal Qila Masjid, rally against the infiltration of foreign prostitutes in Pakistani society, but had they been mobilized under a different banner, wouldn’t it be their first duty to free their own Pakistani sisters from cells of Heera Mandi? Also, if prostitution is growing in Pakistan, could it be because some women of foreign countries are trafficked against their will?
Some western societies have legalized prostitution with the expectation that prostitutes will have the protection and rights of other citizens. However, it fails to figure in the growing problem of human trafficking. It also probably goes with that apathetic adage: “prostitution is the oldest profession in the world.” However, books like “Not for Sale: feminists resisting prostitution and pornography” are iconic of the fact that buying someone for sex is simply human rights’ violation.
Sweden criminalized the purchase of sex, and then Norway and Iceland followed, while Denmark and recently, parts of Canada are moving in the opposite direction of legalizing prostitution. As Beatrice Ask of CNN writes, criminalizing buying of sex takes into consideration the link between prostitution and human trafficking. She also writes,
prostitution in Sweden has not increased since the introduction of the ban and street prostitution has been halved. Although the number of foreign women involved in prostitution in Sweden seems to have increased during the years, the increase is not as big as in neighboring countries.
In other words, human trafficking and prostitution is a growing trend, but in Sweden the increase has been relatively smaller. Her article also mentions that internet-initiated prostitution is more prevalent in neighboring countries of Sweden and that the Swedish ban has not caused street prostitution to move online. What’s more? There is no evidence that street prostitutes have moved to indoor brothels, and “the police, as well as social workers, state that criminal groups that sell women for sexual purposes view Sweden as a poor market.” (http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/31/sweden-why-we-criminalized-purchase-of-sexual-services/)
Pakistan is already moving towards a “liberal” system, which means seeing women on T.V shouting at men in self-objectifying clothes. Two completely contradictory and counter-productive elements when it comes to women’s true liberation and equality. The biggest step towards creating equality for women in Pakistan would be to take the blame of prostitution from the prostituted to the ruthless exploiter. That way, not only will prostituted women be safer, dignified, well-employed (for instance, by getting license to drive a tonga, instead of for prostitution, a difficulty one of Saadat Hassan Manto stories’ highlighted) but women as a class will not be shamed on a customary basis, so easily compared to its damned sect.
Filed under: Opinion, Reviews · Tags: Heera Mandi, Manto, Mujra Gharana, Pakistan
38 Responses to "Criminalize Buying of Sexual Services in Pakistan"
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India’s slide leads to an i...
Marriage is legalized prostitution what more do you want
plus you get some property as well. Having Sex in front
of camera is legal too.
It seems you are just describing the world as it is but
are afraid to ask why. You have to look at science for
that answer and God is not going to help you in that case.
Don’t you it is ok that Women objectify themselves but when
Men do it that is high crime. I though South Asian women were
asexual. hmm it is only men that want sex and pass on their genes
but obviously women want something else entirely.
May be you should start a matrilineal society of Amazon women.
Humans are just another animal try to justify that they are God.
Just plain ridiculous.
Darbaris who Paisa Le Ke ya Uper Ki Gaddi Lene Ke Kuch Kuch Und Sund Chasma Laga Ke Alien Arabi/Persian/Anglo Me Buk Buk Karate Hai, WoBhi ek Prostitution Hai, and it needs to be called crime against innocent people. Such Gandooo Mamoos Such as Apana Chikna Drakulla (Jinah) need to be hung on the nearest lamp post.
In response to the first comment, marriage can become a form of prostitution in specific cases, such as when the guardian literally sells a woman or child for money. However, prostitution connotes use multiple times. So if someone is married, and then used by multiple people after that or further sold to a brothel, that would constitute prostitution.
There is a difference between a mistress and a prostitute. Also, a more clear example of marriage as a way of “legal” sex would be Mutah marriage, which happens in some Islamic countries, but is very debatable as to whether it is Islamic or not. I, personally, think it is a terrible thing as it would not take into account the possibility of pregnancy, similar to prostitution.
Marriage is seen by many as a unit of society, a building block, and an alliance. Especially in South Asian culture, where individual consent (especially female consent) is not paramount, the idea is that marriage unites two families– its creates a network, so to speak.
Marriages based entirely on alliance especially in nobility as practiced in olden days, as well as in some lineages today is another problematic story.
Children play a major role. Bloodline.
South Asian women are expected to have a child within the first year of marriage.
Also, the article is about de-legalizing, not what is and what isn’t legal.
The stories about the so-called Amazon women are at best, a myth. Sweden, Iceland, and Norway are real countries!
I never said it is ok for women to objectify themselves. In fact I pointed out the irony and counter-productiveness of that.
As for asexuality, did you think that South Asian women are a different species, not humans?
Science? Are you an anarchist? Do you think that murder and rape are scientific and natural, and therefore, should be acceptable? Why do you have governments that allow you to have free trade, cheap slave labour? Is that scientific? Bombs are natural? Ask God? That my dear friend, is ridiculous!
Women don’t want children? Why are the children of prostitution with their mothers, not their fathers? That in itself is a matrilineal system, where the father’s identity/ lineage is ambiguous.
Why talk about hierarchies when the topic is equality?
Women want something else? I think that literally speaking, gold-diggers have historically mostly been men.
[...] Criminalize Buying of Sexual Services in Pakistan [...]
Prostituion is a profession. Most of the people dont enjoy they job they do. Its all about money Poverty knows no morals, honour or respect.
i AM quite amused to read all this fussabout buying of sexual services. there is no discussion about sexual services that are not bought but are brought or sought. supposedly free sexual services or usurped-giglo servicing is okay and legit.
we should deal with more urgent real problems. the number one problem is corruption , rabid corruption at the top in executive, rife in legislature,ourarmed forces , in our judiciary and in our media. we have lost our credibility and are loosing our integrity. about 200 onthetake families ,must be brought to accountability transparently and exemplarily punished regardless of their clout or cars.
Real prostitutes of pakistan are those who run around in extended bulletproof rolls royces, mercedes-benzes, BMWs, Porches bought with moneys from the virtually empty national treasury. . . then upon retirerment these are taken home at token prices, Rs 3 Lakhs for a Rs 40 million mercedes benz anyone? Rabid Rasscals are brutalizing and isolating Pakistan to nourish their rotten to core offshore nest eggs. but in stead of dealing with prime problems headon … time is being wasted on sexy debating, shooting from the hip and inbetweenities.
ACT I
Please find two typos in the above text and receive aesthetic satisfaction equal to hanging two artworks by iqbal geoffrey who is the only living artist in all of the continental Asia (neighboring India not excluded) winning at the Paris Biennial (1965). Underline that Paris is no ChiCha Watni.
ACT II:
“Take the line for a walk” said Klee. And Geoffrey reluctantly implores : “BHANDA PHOROE!”. Bhandhari has feet of clay. Now thiMk of the connexion between Klee, Bhandaw (it is Pot in Punjabi, for our Englishj Medium Elite) and Clay. ‘There exists egregious-nexus’, as Hamdani Jii would loyally insist. And, dear spectator:for a chanGe, suo motu engage wholeheartedly.
@ Syed Muhammed — Corruption is an issue, and it is discussed plenty. Indeed, Pakistan is not even close to a position where they can focus on issues like prostitution when Musharraf can talked about a gang-raped woman that she is just trying to get attention for a foreign passport. However, women’s issues don’t take the back burner.
Just because one issue is pivotal doesn’t mean the other one does not exist.
These are just excuses to keep a male privilege in a country that calls itself “Pakistan” — the land of the Pure!!
Corruption should be more synonymous to pimping and selling others bodies and land for personal ease and comforts.
@ faraz — Prostitution is not just a profession. It is a form of slavery, especially when it includes human trafficking, and child prostitution. Most people may not enjoy their jobs, but it is a terrible exaggeration to compare that to prostitution, which involves psychological and physical abuse, as well as, diseases. It is basically depriving the person of his/ her soul, and use it as a dummy for ones own pleasure.
What i meant to say is that poverty forces you to cross all kinds of barriers. Prostitutes only want to earn a living. If you ban prostituion, they will be left with no money to live. Doesnt beggary involved psychological and physical abuse, or child labour? When the stomach is empty, nobody cares about the soul
@ Faraz– true… there are other issues to be taken care of such as better distribution of wealth, and more job creation. However, if you look at begging, we know that many a times, children are kidnapped and sold for that very purpose. Poverty is created or exaggerated in those cases– they may be decapitated or kept hungry to look more pathetic and needy. It’s a form of business involved with human trafficking as well. That’s a whole other issue that needs serious consideration as well.
You also have to consider that part of the money those corrupt politicians and criminals are making goes on “ayashi” that involves purchasing women. So why let them have their “ayashi?”
Destroy the demand for sexual services and human inequality, and perhaps there might be less corruption.
Actually the problems with prostitution you’ve highlighted will go away if it is legalized, as opposed to being criminalized.
Legalization means the service provider will have the support of law enforcement agencies and govt. welfare to protect against ALL the problems you have pointed out.
Btw, why is “human trafficking” illegal only for prostitution. Only to prove that prostitutes are trafficked?
We especially in Pakistan are always in look out for some way to “traffic” ourselves so we can find a better income in a foreign country if we are doctors or engineers. There is nothing inherently wrong in “trafficking” ourselves.
If prostitutes legally go to other places to find better income, that will eliminate criminal human trafficking for prostitution, as the legal way would be more productive. Just like it is for any other profession.
@ Salman Arshad — Please look up the meaning of “human trafficking” carefully instead of playing with words, or creating metaphors to obfuscate the case in point, and make lame excuses to maintain human inequality.
Wikipedia is a good source.
For spelling it out further, human trafficking is the trade/ selling of another person (human, individual.) Migration (legal or illegal) involves the person’s consent and someone else does not own your body or labour.
As for legalization, the article is about criminalizing the purchase of sex (to diminish demand on the buyer’s end), not to criminalize the prostitute in any way. If you actually read the entire piece, it is talking about blaming the purchaser rather than the prostituted (woman, man or child.)
Human trafficking goes on in Pakistan every day in the form of wani and forced “marriage.” How barbaric and hypocritical is the shame and honor culture when an abused “wife” can’t even seek refuge with her family? Whose worth is measured by her virginity followed by her ability to bear sons?
Prostitution will never be eliminated as long as there’s demand for sex with no strings attached. As long as there are men walking the earth, that demand will exist. Pass as many laws as you like against pre-marital sex. Those laws only encourage hypocrisy, guilt, self-loathing and the brutalization of women.
It’s better in the long run for sexually repressed men to pay a woman for sex than to throw acid in the face of a girl who’s “dishonored” him by rejecting his advances.
It’s a complete and utter falsehood that prostitutes are all tricked into the profession. The women who work at legal brothels in Nevada are there willingly. High end escorts aren’t slaves. Streetwalkers, on the other hand, more often than not are abused and exploited.
I’d be more concerned about the trafficking and abuse that goes on in “marriage,” or the women who are blamed and punished for being raped.
One more thing: There’s no bigger whore in Pakistan than Imran Khan.
@ Guest– Thank you for bringing up the issue of forced marriage. I am helping with workshops for young women and to make a documentary on forced marriages.
It is something that we South Asians are exporting to countries like Canada as well, where this program will be running hopefully.
If you read what the ex-escort is talking about, there are things that so-called willing prostitutes learn afterwards… I don’t have to repeat what’s already in the article.
Demand does not justifying rape. So why would it justify prostitution? Sometimes women who are raped, eventually have to end up in prostitution.
Demanding sex with no strings attached is also a materialistic, female-objectifying view-point. I don’t see anything particularly natural about it. That is the main hypocricy of western styled free-sex movement.
If you want no strings attached, you should accept that some women will have children, and you might be giving way to a matriarchal system.
Men should be coherent and be clear about what they want. Are they will to let women have children whose father’s identities will be ambiguous, so that the children are known by the woman’s name, or they going to force some women not to bear children?
Imran Khan is a buyer of sex, not a prostitute. The example of a buyer is that of the devil who beguiles with food or money. We blame the devil, not so much Adam or Eve.
Demand does not justifying rape. So why would it justify prostitution? Sometimes women who are raped, eventually have to end up in prostitution.
1. Rape is non-consensual.
2. Sometimes women who are raped don’t end up in prostitution. Sometimes women who haven’t been raped end up in prostitution.
Making sex outside of marriage illegal doesn’t work anywhere. Those who suffer the most because of such laws are women and gays.
Demanding sex with no strings attached is not necessarily materialistic or female objectifying. Women like it too, whether they admit it or not. Again, you’ll never eliminate that desire between two consensual adults. Jail, flogging, stoning and beheading won’t stop it, not to mention that all those punishments are barbaric.
If a man goes to a prostitute and doesn’t wear a condom, he may end up with a more serious problem than a child.
Look at any country where virginity and childbearing (more specifically, SONbearing) are a woman’s chief attributes and you’ll find that those are the countries where women are infantilized and treated like chattel.
I called Imran Khan a “whore” because he’s willing to say and do whatever he has to, no matter how contrary to his nature, to get attention.
@ Guest — Have you read the article, and that banning of “buying sexual services” DOES work in Sweden, Norway and Iceland.
Once again, if you are so pro-prostitution, why use the word “whore” in such a derogatory sense? Why hate prostitutes at the same time. It is this attitude that is dangerous to women in prostitution. This hate! Why call Imran Khan a whore, and not the buyer. Why not create dirty words for buyers?
Buyers don’t care what the prostitute is going through, and whether she consents or not, whether she has issues such as drug addictions that force her to prostitution, or being a single-mother earning money for her children! They don’t choose their partners either, because– news-flash–, they have to earn a living!!
The movie “Pretty Woman” was actually supposed to be a realistic movie, until it was bought by Disney, which turned the drug dependent prostitute character into a teeth-flossing happy prostitute myth.
Many women end up in prostitution because they had little to no other options. It’s not exactly a dream career for anyone. Perhaps, with all the false glamorization of prostitution run by capitalism (mostly men), there might be women curious to be prostitutes, but that is a horrible thing to put in the mind of young girls. It is self-objectifying and self-degradation.
I did not say anything about flogging or criminalizing free, consensual extra-marital sex. You are simply bringing in anti-religious, or anti-conservative arguments to counter a feminist, women’s rights and equality argument.
No strings attached– yes, that’s an extremely western, hedonistic, male-aping concept. Real free-sex societies have acknowledged and respected the course of nature and accepted that the result will be a matrilineal society! Can you face that? Can western societies face that? Can you even accept polyandry? That is how ingrained your gender inequality, chauvinist mentality is! A woman may choose not to have children by rejecting intercourse, which gives no pleasure to women! Does western, liberal society want to talk about that? No– that would be termed “man-hating” and “anti-sex.” Are you thinking there are no pressures on women in western society? When women “choose” to get genital piercings, and therefore, desensitize their only source of sexual pleasure (you should know which source I am talking about), that is self-objectification, not knowledgeable consent! There is also the withdrawal method, yet women have to alter their hormonal system to be with men, because may-be they don’t get to choose the act. Also, with the infiltration of pornography in liberalism (once again, mostly created by men) women have to ape and perform what the men are used to seeing, or what they think is now normal.
Also, because women are forced into marriage, or forced into sex in marriage, or forced to have children does not trivialize or eliminate the issues facing prostitutes– yes, the major ones being diseases and violence!
Talking about children and comparing that to disease– well, there is yet again that prostitute-hating attitude that prostitutes give men disease, when it is proven to be the other way around. Also, how can you compare the two. Children maybe cumbersome for those men, but to compare them to diseases? That’s absolutely disgusting!!
“This year a number of men of Pakistani origin were sentenced in Britain for grooming vulnerable young women into prostitution, giving them drugs, raping them and selling them to customers. As it happens, all the young women they groomed were white. As it happens, many of the customers were Pakistani men.
The police investigation spawned a debate on how some Pakistani men view and treat women. The former British foreign minister Jack Straw, whose Blackburn constituency includes many people of Pakistani origin, has this to say:
“Pakistanis, let’s be clear, are not the only people who commit sex offences – overwhelmingly, the sex offenders wing of prisons are full of white sex offenders. But there is a specific problem involving Pakistani heritage men, of some age, who target vulnerable young white girls. And we need to get the Pakistani community to think much more clearly about why this is going on and be much more open about the problems that are leading to a number of Pakistani heritage men thinking that it’s okay to target white girls in this way.
“These young men are in a western society. Like any other young men they are fizzing and popping with testosterone. They want some outlet, but Pakistani heritage girls are off-limits, and they are expected to marry a Pakistani girl from Pakistan, typically.
“So they then seek other avenues. And they see these young white girls, who are vulnerable – some of them in (social) care, who for sure, have not been subject to normal parental support – who they think are easy meat. And then, because they are vulnerable, they ply them with gifts, they give them drugs, and then of course they are trapped.””
– http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/terminal-3/2011/08/01/time-for-a-slutwalk-in-pakistan/
Your responses to my post are so full of straw man arguments, so many falsehoods about the West, so many distortions of what I wrote, such a bizarre view of feminism that you almost had me going.
Then I read your characterization of “Pretty Woman” as a film that was supposed to be “realistic.” That’s when I knew you were pulling my leg.
Realistic? It was supposed to be a Cinderella story. If anything, many people (including myself) were turned off by the fact that it made prostitution seem harmless and a means by which to attract a rich man.
Honestly. Such nonsense.
“Self-objectifying clothes.” LOL. Women shouting at men on television! What is it that you find so scandalous? That women shout at men or that the brawl is broadcast on television? Did it ever occur to you that the men may be saying something completely idiotic and deserve to be shouted down? Or is it that women shouldn’t shout at men or be on television?
Incidentally, I’ve seen the women on Geo, PTV and Express. Maybe their clothes are considered “self-objectifying” by Taliban standards. Perhaps they should wear burqas instead?
Such horror at the thought of a matrilineal society. For your information, Judaism is determined by whether the mother is Jewish, not the father. Oh dear!
You say that I am anti-conservative and anti-religious. You are 100% correct. I’ve seen the results of conservative and religious “feminism.”
As to the matter of Pakistani men in Britain drugging and pimping out white girls, I think that says a lot about sexism, racism and a culture of male superority not only in Pakistan, but throughout Central and South Asia, Africa and the Arab world.
I’m pro-prostitution? Again, LOL. You’re funny. How can you describe my views as pro-prostitution and end your comment by saying I have a prostitution hating attitude? Which is it?
Many women walk the streets because they’re poor, or uneducated, or addicted to drugs, or have low self esteem due to traumatic experiences in their upbringing. I don’t know if you’ve actually met any prostitutes, but I have. I’ve been threatened at knifepoint by both prostitutes and pimps. I’ve also met escorts who make $1000+ an hour. There is nothing glamorous about the profession. Are any of them happy? Not really. The streetwalkers risk violence, abuse and death. It’s horrible. The connection between exploitation and genital piercing is beyond me.
As to polyandry, I don’t understand why a woman would want multiple husbands. One is enough work. I know mine is.
I am 100% in favor of gay marriage.
The original character of Pretty Woman (who knows what the actual name of the movie was supposed to be) was supposed to be a drug-dependent prostitute, until Disney took the story. I don’t think you are reading what I am saying, and you are repeating your hard-wired “liberal” theology, so that you cannot see that there isn’t much difference between liberal or conservative when it comes to women’s rights.
I think the fact that you say prostitution should be legalized and then calling Imran Khan a “whore” for the sake of disrespect sums up your entire confusion.
I, for one, is saying, stop calling prostitutes names! Blame the buyer, not the one being used or even abused!
I think we are on the same page that prostitution in a profession full of dangers.
Who is in horror of matrilineal society? I just thought you were a male chauvinist trying to keep your male privilege and therefore, mentioned that you need to make up your mind. If you want no strings, then give up patriarchy. Stop with your two-faced confusion. Stop dividing women (the wife and the pros.) I’m all for women giving their name to the child, especially ones who are born out of wedlock. Judaism wouldn’t be my favourite example of matrilineal societies (doesn’t give much equality to women.)
You should look at history of polyandry, and how it was systematically annihilated throughout history including through Islam. Tariq Ali points out a verse in the Quran that tells men that they are forbidden to marry women who are already married. That’s a whole other issue.
Since you aren’t getting the gist of my argument, I suggest you read Catherine Mackinnon’s Women’s Lives, Men’s Laws.
Who is talking religious feminism? Did I, for once, mention Islam or any other religion in the article? I am talking about women’s rights and equality.
I’m not sure how gay marriage figures into the argument. This article is about prostitution! This article is not in favour of Pakistan’s Hudud Laws, and I don’t know how a progessive move to help women by eliminating predatorial rich clients is offensive or anti-sexual freedom.
I do not understand how you equate sexual freedom with the buyer’s unequal privilege to buy sex. Isn’t the argument usually supposed to go with mutual consent of adults? Do you think prostitution is all consensual sex?
I just don’t like the emotionless, objectifying term “no strings attached.” It is especially not right to say that men should have the right to “no strings” without mutual consent. At least the terms, free-love and polyamoury were better. Take out the acknowlegement of the prostitutes’ subjectivity and psychological being– take out the fact that the person has a real name– and forget about the fact that that person can be treated like a person!
As for the self-objectifying and shouting at men sentence, it is contradictory because it is pleasing men and at the same time shouting in good old soap opera dramatics.
Did you ever see Pakistani dramas from the 80′s and 90′s. They were based on realism, and the women didn’t have to hide their faces behind inches of make-up to speak up. I don’t think you are familiar with Pakistani TV drama. I can say for sure that it was better than all the American crap!
I was recently watching a Bio-documentary about the actress who first played the role of a policewoman and she had to keep the image of “Sexiness.”
Actresses like Huma Nawab, Nadia Jamil, Sania Saeed, Rubina Ashraf had amazing acting skills, and if they shouted they never HAD to be apologetically pretty while doing it.
America is definitely not the best example for feminism. I would rather look at Britain (where Harriet Harman, the once interim leader of Labour Party) tried to propose the reform toward criminalizing buying sex. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7153358.stm)
Then of course, Sweden, Norway, Iceland.
Soon to be Denmark, which is rethinking the whole sex legalization it is famous for, having become haven to the sex trade: http://news.change.org/stories/denmark-considers-prostitution-ban
I hope Canada will learn the lesson after Denmark as well. Legalization does not work anywhere! In another article I was reading that people had started the service on street, so that Denmark introduced garage size boxes. What are women? Washrooms? Ridiculous!
@ Amna Siddiqui:
I thought I was clear enough, but I’ll clarify.
Human trafficking does not occur for engineers and doctors.
Why does human trafficking occur only for prostitutes or some forms of manual labor ?
Because prostitution and the sort of manual labor that trafficked people are forced to do are not covered by law.
.
By legalizing all forms of professions, the associated problems you have mentioned will go away.
There will be no incentive for criminals to traffic people for a profession that is already legally available and there are legal ways to move to another country for better opportunities.
.
How will the prostitutes benefit from criminalizing the purchaser?
Prostitution just like any service profession should just be consensual. That is what the prostitutes want.
There should be no coercion, and the law already protects all other professions from that.
There is no complexity in the issue.
.
I am yet to understand why you want to criminalize one party in mutually consensual transactions. I am sorry I could not understand.
@ Salman Arshad
you are over-simplifying the issue. Human trafficking is forced labour. Can you regulate the fact that children should not have to work at labour or be prostitutes? Should child labour or prostitution also be legalized? How many women really want to be prostitutes? Where there is a lack of supply of willing women, there will be forced human trade!!
The arguments you guys are presenting are not factual, and based on assumptions, such as your definition of consent– prostitutes do not choose who they can or cannot sleep with. They have to because they need the money. Very few high-class ones might have that option, but the hazards would still be involved. Read the book “Souled Out” if you are really interested in the topic, or at least the interview I mentioned.
Denmark is trying to reverse its policy on legalization, because it is becoming a haven for the sex trade (which may involve illegal, forced human trafficking– bringing stolen women from other countries). The same political party that legalized it, is proposing criminalizing purchase and pimping of sex: http://news.change.org/stories/denmark-considers-prostitution-ban
In Britain, Harriet Harman (once interim leader of Labour Party) tried to propose the reform toward criminalizing buying sex. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7153358.stm)
Get up to date on the issue! Read the article the last portion of the paragraph at least. It is working in Sweden, Iceland, Norway! Prostitutes are not being criminalized. Buyers are, to eliminate the demand, for the sake of human rights.
Ontario, Canada hasn’t decided which way to go, but some feminist lawyers have argued for criminalizing purchase of sex.
@ Amna Siddiqui:
Can you regulate the fact that children should not have to work at labour or be prostitutes?
Here’s the problem with your logic:
Do we criminalize buying of sports goods from Sialkot in order to prevent children there from working under forced labor?
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Prostitutes or for that matter any professional can choose whom to work for if there are laws in place to prevent forced labor.
I still did not understand what is so different about prostitution that it cannot be supported by law, when all other professions are already being supported.
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I read the two articles. The BBC one actually has more arguments in support of legalizing prostitution. The other one has no argument other than what you are saying here, that is, without a complete argument.
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And lastly, you did not mention how you will help willing prostitutes who are not forced? Where will they go? In countries where its legal, you can find plenty who are working out of their own will. You can even use google to search for their names and contacts. Ask them yourself if they will like their customers being criminalized.
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What you propose is very logical for countries like Pakistan or Somalia or Iran, where we like to make laws based on our beliefs rather than reason.
“countries like Pakistan or Somalia or Iran, where we like to make laws based on our beliefs rather than reason.”
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Salman Arshad (September 13, 2011 at 10:56 pm) you need to get out more often. Do you know a country where the laws are not made on the basis of the beliefs of its people.
@ PMA:
I know about only the most f****up countries who make laws based on beliefs rather than reason, and those are very few.
Normally functioning countries hold law as changeable and debatable because law itself is a result of some form of rational debate.
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I think you missed the “rather than reason” part. Otherwise I wouldn’t expect you would say something like that.
Salman Arshad (September 14, 2011 at 3:47 am):
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Actually I did not expect you to say “fucked up.” But now that you have done it, I know where you are coming from. Everywhere in the world laws are made based on some moral and ethical fabric of the society. In the West it is commonly known as ‘Judeo-Christian’ ethics. In most of the Islamic countries the laws are made on the basis of Islamic Jurisprudence. Case in point family laws for instance. Cases such as legality or illegality of polygamy; or capital punishment; or inheritance laws. Many a time what is ‘reasonable’ gets set aside. Who is to decide what is reasonable; marriage between one-man & one-woman, or marriage between one-man & multiple-women. In light of my pointing out to you, you may wish to revisit your earlier position. Behind legal system of any country or society is some moral code, often derived from the belief system of that society, fucked up or not.
@ Salman Arshad– Your first argument just blew my mind. Don’t you see any difference between a sports good, and a human? Forced labour (adult or child) is one thing– prostitution makes the human body into the product. You buy and sell things/ objects that can be owned– human slavery is a violation of human rights. If you don’t understand that a body is being sold, and you want to see “sex” as the product here, consider also that no one is suggesting banning of sex!! However, sex= human body. Therefore, in purchasing, the product is the body and soul of the human, not a separate product like “orgasm.”
Sex should be consensual at all times, whether you just met a person, are in a relationship, or married for however many years.
Yes, some people are saying that things are moving underground in Sweden (most of the BBC article is not in favour btw,) but there is no evidence that the underground prostitution is due to the law. Here is something from Wikipedia:
“Critics claim that there has been an increase in hidden prostitution, especially internet prostitution. However, the research published by NIKK does not suggest that hidden- or internet prostitution is a comparably larger proportion in Sweden than in Denmark or Norway [75]”
Also, can we stop pushing the “Happy Hooker Myth,” without providing facts? I just saw an ad on Canadian TV that 78% of women in prostitution have a history of sexual abuse. Here is a link that talks about some statistics:
http://www.rapeis.org/activism/prostitution/prostitutionfacts.html
http://crime.about.com/od/prostitution/a/prostitution.htm
Basically, legalization ONLY will not change the nature of this so-called profession. You have to understand that the body is used as an object, a commodity. The PERSON is being sold, over and over.
Unwilling women are often raped, in order to be turned into the usable objects.
Consider being a woman, and looking for a job. You come across something like Wanted Female Masseuse (and you think, I better be careful). Consider that being advertised legally on regular Job sites. How would you feel? That is an infringement of women’s equality and liberation to protect and maintain male-driven oppression!!
Here is a report I am looking at:
“In addition to funding the successful implementation of the new legislation, the Swedish model ensured provisions for funding realistic exit strategies for prostituted women. They included research into addressing the root causes for entry into prostitution and factors which can inhibit permanent exit, for example, “monies were made available to NGOs and statutory agencies for drug rehabilitation programmes, exit strategies and longer term reintegration.” As aforementioned other approaches to prostitution such as legalization do not support women to empower them to exit prostitution. This is in contrast to the Swedish model where, “the government followed through with ample social service funds to help those prostitutes who wanted to get out.” The results were that, “Sixty percent of the prostitutes in Sweden took advantage of the well-funded programs and succeeded in exiting prostitution”. The numbers involved in street prostitution today is no more than 500, (Sweden has 9 million inhabitants) this is a reduction from 650 in 1999 before the law was implemented. This number should be compared with the number of women involved in street prostitution in Denmark (where prostitution as such is legal) which was 5,500 to 7800 in 2004 (with 4.5 million inhabitants).
The positive effect of the law for prostituted women is two fold and self reinforcing. In addition to providing the incentive “for women wanting to escape prostitution to seek the assistance that they need” , Swedish NGO’s report that that prostituted women and girls, “contact them in greater numbers to get assistance to leave prostitution”. Furthermore it also acts as a preventative measure for a future generation of marginalized girls who could be vulnerable to entering the industry, for example NGO’s in Sweden have reported, “that the existence and the enforcement of the law deter young women who are not yet in prostitution but who are runaways or soft drug abusers.” (www.ruhama.ie/easyedit/files/analyzingtheswedishmodelonprostitution.doc)
Why is human trafficking and prostitution increasing? Why can’t buying men see the humanity in women, instead of seeing them as objects? Until you change YOUR attitude, women’s condition will continue to suffer.
Amazing…!! What an original idea…. Maken the oldest profession ILLEGAL… Sheer genius.. That Amna Siddiqui: is some origional thinker… W0W..!!
@ Thomas– much respect for your anti-war sentiments.
Thanks for dropping in with absolutely no opinion just to promote your website, I am assuming, since you are so clueless of this issue.
As for pulling the oldest profession card– thanks for the time travel. Also, consider farming, medicine, human slavery and who knows what else as the oldest profession.
Here are some articles to freshen your thinking on a topic other than war:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,815951,00.html
http://torduange.wordpress.com/2008/05/17/stop-calling-prostitution-the-worlds-oldest-profession/
I’m a passivist, but just gotta ask you this: have you done any research on the history of war and how far back it goes? Got your logic all messed up, isn’t it?
@PMA:
I think now you should tell me about one not f****up country where laws are made without reasoning.
And I don’t disagree with what you wrote in your last post. I had specifically mentioned NOT USING REASON as the characteristic of f****up countries.
@ Amna Siddiqui:
In 2007 a report came about Cambridge university students who joined prostitution to get extra money. Another came about Oxford university. Other universities, in all other parts of the world wouldn’t be behind. You can find all the details through google.
Let me know if that will be enough to remove the myth of forced prostitution you have made your argument on.
And also, tell us the reason why you would stop those university students from willingly joining prostitution?
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If you want to simply ban prostitution because of some belief of yours, you only have to say so. No need of any argument there.
But there is no such thing as a “soul” scientifically speaking and women can go into prostitution willingly. Do those have a different species of “soul” or they don’t have a “soul” at all?
There should be laws that protect all women, including prostitutes.
You want to make laws to protect only women who are forced. Only because you probably “believe” that women don’t willingly go into prostitution.
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And prostitution is not selling of humans. Its a service. A sexual act is completely instinctive and physical and does not “require” any “soul” involved.
The argument was about stopping children from being forced into labor by criminalizing the purchase of the product of the labor. That was YOUR argument not mine.
But if you keep talking about “souls” instead of facts, then there really is no reason to take this further. You may as well talk about ghosts and elves.
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It would be much more honest if you simply state that God forbids prostitution and so it should be banned.
Once again, no one is telling anyone not to sell, but not to buy. Read before you make arguments. Prostitution is a dangerous business. Single mothers may enter to support their children, young women to pay off school, others to buy a house or support siblings.. who knows. Does that remove the fact that men will make them do things that may not consent to? Because these men want to 1)do the act without knowing the person (i.e., invalidating women’s human psyche), 2)because they may want kinky acts that other women will not conform to, 3) because they won’t exit an unhappy marriage/ relationship and cheat on their wives instead.
So what if some women can’t make money from prostitution? Allow them better jobs, or let women enter other male-dominated fields. Give them equal opportunity, rather than maintaining inequality.
How about a 50-50 role in the government!!
Should cocaine or other harmful drugs be legalized because some people really enjoy it and can do it responsibly, while others’ lives may be wrecked by being tricked into it? Who cares if there are losers who die right?
I don’t even want to go toward your second argument since you so blatantly depriving a human of “psyche,” since you love to play with words. Got scientific enough yet? Body is not a machine, that you insert something into for your pleasure! If you cannot see women as humans that is the ultimate horror of your own psyche. If someone isn’t turned on, she is not turned on. Sex is not a service. Much of it starts from the mind. It should be mutual. What is instinctual about prostitution? People are attracted to each other, and engage in consensual sex, with consent to the acts involved–, but did you really pull instinct here?
I was even reading that prostitutes in Nevada are showing psychological problems: “Critics say that prostitution is psychologically damaging to sex workers, some of whom are sold into the profession by human traffickers. While researching her book, Prostitution and Trafficking in Nevada: Making the Connection, psychologist Melissa Farley found that many women in the legal brothels in Nevada exhibited symptoms of trauma, institutionalization, and intense emotional stress. Farley noted that decriminalization of prostitution in the Netherlands, Germany, and Australia led to increased levels of human trafficking in the region.”
You need to stop trying to pull the conservative card on me, because this is strictly women’s rights and women’s health, and to hell with male unjust domination!
The sex here is turned into the labour, not the product dude. You brought up sports goods!! Why is it a service, if it is instinctual, physical attraction of both parties involved?
Are you seriously telling me to stop referring to books and facts, and not google? Did you bring up at least one valid fact? Am I supposed to take the idea that there are plenty of smiling women offering sex for money on the internet as a statistic or fact that they are all happily involved in this system?
Also, because there are women who want to go through FGM, does that mean that we should let the practice of female genital mutilation going? There isn’t much difference. It’s simply a way of conforming to a male dominated society, where male pleasure takes precedence and women are supposed to “service,” whether they enjoy it or not.
Just so you know, you are talking to an atheist!!
Marriage is legal prostitution, whether u accept it or not is a different matter. Very few people are happy in marriage, but nearly all are happy for some time in a relationship, so when it is a fact that”NOTHING IS FOREVER” be realistic and enjoy life whatever little of it you have left…party n womanize…that doesnt mean i solicit prostitution…do it within the norms of society n all is good…cheers
@theallknowing
thank you for the male chauvinist “womanize” comment.
What are the norms of society? Can you be anymore opaque?
Marriage exists in numerous cultures, and there are men who are good-willed humans– not with your Jannat-with-Houris-for-pleasure mentality.
Divorce and freedom to choose another spouse should be a right, albeit with proper care and compensation for children.
Co-habitation is a form of marriage after some months whether you sign a contract or not. Child automatically makes it a marriage, in terms of rights. When you separate, there is always law involved with splitting property/ assets of the two or compensation for child/ house work. If the guy was the homemaker, the woman will be paying alimony until he finds a job.
I don’t understand why people make comments with such illusions about the western society, with little understanding about ground realities.
Brothers of DG ISPR (Shia (CRYPTO JEWS) Controlling media)
4 SHIA (CRYPTO JEWS) brothers Running PK Army + PK Media + Brothel Business in PK
Athar Abbas: DG ISPR (Controled Army with Shia + Jewish(under the mask of USA) + hindu Brahman support)
Azhar Abbas: Dawn TV Channel
Zafar Abbas: CEO (Pakistani Brothels with Aids – Hiv)
They get the Fake Doctors Certificate that their prostitutes does not have Aids — to Satisfy their Rich Clients —
There is Chaos in PK Rulling Elite cuz most of them got Infected with Aids and Hiv — and they CAN NOT EVEN BLAME OR TALK ABOUT HOW THEY GOT AIDS IN THESE PAKI BROTHELS —-
Mazhar Abbas: ARY and Gen Sec PFUJ (note how journalism is under direct influence Shia (CRYPTO JEWS), it is called
Pakistan Federation of Union of Journalists).
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