Pak Tea House » Opinion, Reviews » Pakistan and the United States: Reduced to talking at each other
Pakistan and the United States: Reduced to talking at each other
By Saad Hafiz
Based on public pronouncements from both sides in the last few weeks it seems that Pak-U.S. relations are in free fall.
It started with tough words from the most senior United States military officer, Admiral Mullen in the aftermath of the recent attack on the US embassy in Kabul blamed on the Haqqani network that “in choosing to use violent extremism as an instrument of policy, the government of Pakistan — and most especially the Pakistani Army and ISI — jeopardizes not only the prospect of our strategic partnership, but also Pakistan’s opportunity to be a respected nation with legitimate regional influence,”. Pakistan responding tersely that “U.S. could lose Pakistan as an ally” and that “any unilateral US operation or hot pursuit inside Pakistan would result in severe consequences”.
But is the recent discord after the Kabul embassy attack simple posturing or a genuine breach in relations between two erstwhile allies? After all, U.S. officials have long been frustrated at Pakistan being used as a safe haven by the Haqqani led Afghan Taliban, described as the “veritable arm” of the ISI by Mullen and what the U.S. perceives to be Pakistani inaction against militancy in general. We also know that ties between the troubled allies have deteriorated sharply after the killing of al-Qaeda chief Osama Bin Laden on Pakistani soil by US commandos in May. Relations were already strained with public anger in Pakistan against the U.S. was stoked over the release of Raymond Davis, the CIA contractor who killed two Pakistanis in Lahore.
On the surface nothing should have changed as the Pakistanis continue to aid the United States in its war against al Qaeda. The war against the Taliban is another matter as Islamabad rightly or wrongly sees its intimate relationships, ideological and personal, developed between the ISI and the Taliban, as crucial to Pakistan’s strategic interests in a post US Afghanistan. The Americans, of course, have always been completely aware of the Pakistani limits and have not objected until now to an arrangement which is duplicitous by design.
We know that Afghanistan is central to Pakistan’s national security strategy, although Pakistan’s national security gatekeepers do not share the American concern for Afghan democracy. It would not be surprising, therefore, that the ISI, the State within a State has decided that now is the time to support the war against the United States and NATO forces in Afghanistan. The ISI, as if often the case, may have decided to go it alone, since in its estimation there is no chance that Pakistan’s political and military leadership would ever have the gumption to take on the U.S.
The Pakistani security establishment is probably betting that due to the country’s strategic importance and nuclear weapons capability they will not need to blink first in the standoff with the Americans on dealing with the Haqqani led Taliban. As usual, the security establishment has roped in pliant politicians and media to join the chorus accusing the United States of nefarious designs of depriving Pakistan of its nuclear bomb by causing internal chaos and weakening the only nuclear power of the Islamic world. Commentators speak emotionally about Pakistan freeing itself from U.S. subjugation to have the chance to become a vibrant nation.
With a closely contested Presidential election looming, the United States is looking for an exit from Afghanistan. Pakistan’s tacit support if not active involvement is required to make any U.S. and NATO withdrawal strategy viable. The U.S. needs Pakistan to contain, at least to some extent, Taliban sanctuaries in Pakistan. For the U.S. opening a new front in Pakistan, a country of 180 million people, is well beyond the capabilities of either its forces in Afghanistan or forces in the U.S. reserves. Therefore, a U.S. break with Pakistan threatens the logistical foundation of the war in Afghanistan and poses strategic challenges U.S. forces cannot cope with.
The United States could use its considerable bilateral and multilateral economic leverage and/or threaten a permanent tilt towards its regional rival India to compel Pakistan to cooperate. However, any major pressure on Pakistan could result in its collapse or in the creation of an overtly anti U.S. government in Pakistan. Either outcome could well prove disastrous for Washington.
The relationship between the United States and Pakistan ultimately is far more important than just dealing with terrorist safe havens, but both sides have created a tense atmosphere that they will find difficult to contain. The attitudes of the governments profoundly affected the views of politicians and the public, attitudes that will be difficult to erase. It is imperative, therefore, that political representatives from both countries re-establish primacy over bilateral negotiations conducted away from the public eye and on the formulation and implementation of national security policies. Consider the outcome.
Filed under: Opinion, Reviews · Tags: Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saad Hafiz, United States
26 Responses to "Pakistan and the United States: Reduced to talking at each other"
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Dear Saad Hafiz: you say,”..The United States could use its considerable bilateral and multilateral economic leverage and/or threaten a permanent tilt towards its regional rival India to compel Pakistan to cooperate….”.
But don’t bet on the idea. India has no interest in getting drawn into this tamasha. Pakistan has been brought this mess by Pak politicians, men in Khaki ,Mullahs and collaborating literati. Who in the world like to go near or touch Pakistan even with a 100 mile long pole unless they are crazy? Chinese excepted of course!
This war of words go nowhere. If war of words escalate and Pakistan not come to senses, there is more likely Balochistan leadership declare autonomous thus accommodating American logistic requirements.
All those who talking in Pakistani media are defense retirees who doesn’t lose anything by talking of war that is rubbish.
Americans know very well there is no Haqqanis except ISI.
India already has so many funny tamashas in the country why should bother her self to jump in to out side tamashasssssssssssssssssss
[...] Pakistan and the United States: Reduced to talking at each other [...]
to kamath
For China Pakistan is a land of fools to be misused as a tool for chinese puposes, for chinese ethnofascist and imperialist interests. Every pak politician regards (must regard) Beijing as his political Makkah.
to akram malik
Tamashas are going on in India too, but they are less blood-curdling than in Pakistan (except when quislings of arabic imperialism have to be given a bloody nose for the evils that they have wrought upon hindus in hindu homelands in the past 1200 years – I regard that as unfortunate, but hindus cannot be blamed for it alone).
Let see what can America do to Pakistan without mentioning India.
0. Declare a terrorist nation and implement sanctions.
1. damage your electricity grid/cell.
2. confiscate all overseas property/money from elites.
3. no more trips to Europe or US.
4. No more F16 parts.
5. No more IMF.
6. No economic assistance.
7. Tax remittances.
8. Send Mossad to Dubai.
PS I don’t think there can be anymore Anti-US gov than
the current one. Pakistan is not too big to fail.
To Do List (September 28, 2011 at 11:32 am):
.
That must be your ‘short’ list.
we are harvesting in pakistan today what U$$$$A cultivated in afghanistan .. all profitably but senselessly … 30 plus years ago, mujaheedeen, saudi (Soori) Arabia, obama jii et al.
By the way, early in 1980, the Govt of Pakistan was warned nicely about the influx of infiltration and Ucchi Tumbiism .. by AK Brohi in my presence.
THIS very year, I filed writs and cried out lot that Herr Raymond Whatever should not be surreptritiously allowed to abscond from Pakistan. The conseqiuences will be seriouasly disastrous.
My WP 1984/2011 continues in tghe High Court .. high court orders were flouted disgracefully in spirit. And the idiot-addl sessions judge let Raymond off and some pakistani liars and lawyers bnoth filled their pockets with dollARS. The cooperating judge has been transferred artfully to somewhere in Bahalwalpur.
Now our prime minunster too is mulling (and licxking) the wounds.
My public interest writ will be heard by Senior Puisne Justice, Lahore High Court probably after 10th oct. inshala.
You see we have ANHEE PEEVAY TEY KUTTEY CHUTTEN GALPORE and apathy in Pakistan. This Punjabi sahying for New Jersey alumni means: A BLIND WOMAN IS GRUNDING THE FLOUR AND WILD DOGS ARE LICKING IUT OFF.
Our priorities need reporioritization and Restatement.
Recently an MPH lady off Pakistan in Boston wrote how proud we can be that in 1990 we had no undergrad at Harvard, this year there are 6 (Kenya has 7). I responded why she is so excited about that.
May be the least YOU can do is write to Supreme Court that stern action be initiated against those who misdirected (for corrupt purposes!) and mismanaged the Raymond Scam for personal gains and personnel sycopghancy. May God Alnmighty, suo moto, also send them to very-special (KHAWSUE-SEE) hell, the sooner the better..
Otherwise due to lack of vision at the leaking Top oblivion is on the anvil at top speed… we have nmorally-castrated foxes and geedars (jackjals) looking after chicken coops and melonfields.
We are sheep without rams or …. shepherds.
to iqbal
You pakistanis have too many rams but no Ram. Your imported arab-mohammadan god has no real humanist background or interests. He is the god of those who rape, loot, practise fascism and lie and send kids with bombs strapped on them and he profits from their deeds and will not let go off those succulent profits and the methods.
Hiob:
We have few rams who could impregbnate the imaginatipon of the sheep with new ideas and neodynamics /… there is a Ram inside every humanbeing, some less (klike u) and some more (me, for example).
hiob. you appear to be an intelligent dude, you are barking up the wrong and very green tree. do not pontificate
Jafree Sahab: Unknown to you I am collecting all of your works of ‘art’ painted here at PTH. The latest being:
.
“Rams who could impregnate the imagination of the sheep with new ideas and neo-dynamics.”
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“There is a Ram inside every human being, some less like you and some more like me, for example.”
.
“You are barking up the wrong and very green tree.”
.
I intend to put it together as a Collage and profit from your name and fame. So that you know.
As soon as any discussion about islam exposes islam’s fascism and imperialism the muslims resort to filthy words and attacks against the person who exposes these facts about islam. Islam has done much damage to mankind and with this above attitude by the muslims islam will do much more damage. Creator god (who is one among many) can fulfill his sadism with the help of islam and muslims. Nothing will stop this from happening. What a bad time to live on the earth. And things will become worse due to islam and muslims and their defenders and appeasers.
Mr Hafiz, the inofficial spokesman for the USA administration is once again beating the drums of fear.
It is an illusion that the USA is an ally of Pakistan, never was when it set up a CENTO. Pakistan was dismembered and told by it supposedly ally that CENTO was not created to protect Pakistan but simply to stegnthen the USA defence.
Across the latin American the USA has earned the name ‘GRINGO’ for its citizens and across the muslim countries the peole have still not decided as to what is the most appropriate label for their ally yet.
Mr Hafiz has not paid attention to other headlines related to the beloved ally who wants Pakistan to contain taliban sanctuariesin the tribal territory. Let me state some:
. Travels through ISLAM, Time Aug.1-Aug. 8, 2011
. The great american downgrade, Time report August 15, 2011.
. The decline and fall of Europe, Time Aug 22, 2011
. Why Germany cannot save the World, Time October 3, 2011
If one cares to read the reasons which caused these headlines, one would note that the world history of TIME has never followed a straight line; there is always a pay back period, the consequences asthe American lady has always reminded muslim world. The pay bac time for the USA started long time ago, however, unfortunately the administrations personal over tim were running arouns like headless chickens, chasing shadows and insignificant individuals hoping to solve their problems with a great ill. Fearand paranoi dominated their actions which by a normal standard and use of common sensecould be regarded as over reaction. Two atomic drops in Japan, carpet bombing in vietnam and invasion of foreign land from somali, nicaragua, Panama, Afghanistan and Iraq.
Peoples and not the armies of the world defend their country. Mr Hafiz should not display such an ignorance, there are no sanctuaries in the so called tribal territory for the so called Pashtoon talibans, they are the residents of the territory.
Mr Obama and his administration has been down graded despite his bravado alcapone action in Pakistan territory the republicans have sworned to deny a second term.
Rex Minor
to rex
The muslim thinks pay-back time is only for non-muslims. He should not forget that the muslim too has to go through it. Islam has practised more fascism and imperialism and exterminations than others. So all of rex’s criticism will also be applicable to islam and muslims.
@hiob
Not to Islam but muslims, yes! Are you not aware of what is occuring in muslim countries. More suffering and more hardship is awaiting for all of us. We are sinners, regardless of our faith. Perhaps one day you will have the opportunity to be told in India that fascism was created in Italy by a gentleman called Benito Massulini. The word is protected as a patent and cannot be used without the permission of the Mussolini family’s permission? The word Imperialism was earned by the Romans when they created a great empire. Germany tried in vain but lost the great war; remember German slogan; 800 years of holy roman empire, Deutscland!!
The USA took over the title until 9/11, and has ever since been running down hill!
Rex Minor
to rex
What about islamic imperialism, expansionism, arrogance, desire to rule over whole of mankind and dictate terms to all?
What about arab and turkish ethnofascism going hand in hand with islam? Why blame only USA or europeans?
Fascism describes a phemonenon that is much older than the invention of this word. The words electron or photon also were invented later – but the electrons and photons existed even before that. So it is also with fascism. It takes time before a phenomenon is described or referred to by a single word.
Muslims, arabs, turks, pashtuns have proved to be far worse imperialists and racist than europeans. The british did in 120 years in India more good and less evil than muslims, arabs, turks and pashtuns in 1200 years.
@Hiob
I do not mean to be rude but you are the product of the colonised land. The worst what the Brits did with your folks was to do nothing and depived you of two hundred years absence from the civilisation nd human progress. Ths is the most difficult to catch up. The rest of your rhetoric is understandable and excusable. Every one of the Nations have committed atrocities for one or other reason , but do not try to create false monsters. Neither Ranjit Singh nor mughals or Saldin had the plan to conquer the world.
Rex Minor
Rex Minor,
I am really curious about your origins now. I mean can you give us a rough indicator of where you hail from and what is that exalted civilization that has given to the humanity such peerless examples of human conduct. I hate saying this but just as hiob is stuck on quislings, you keep getting back to geist like a broken record. Spewing jargon is not a hallmark of an intelligent mind. It just means that you are a silly showoff. Half the time, it seems that you are smoking the good stuff while rattling off your nonsense.
@Bade Miyan
You are a fake and an illusion, from a land where the majority of people are non-believers and have been persecuting minority muslims and sikhs without any consequence and payback. In another instance You quote me some jibberings from sanskrit in the indian constitution when I said that according to a German documentary film Indian children tells lies without any prevention from their parents.
You are curious about my origin but regards my commentry as rattling nonsense. You must upgrade your communication skill with foreigners in order to understand my comments. You should also learn to move on if you do not comprehend , as I do when I do not understand many bloggers comments. My knowledge of english is not very good particulary when I think in German language and google help is time consuming. Hiob is not very knowledgable or sophistigated but a genuine person, a specimen from your land who is constantly pouring out venom against muslims and their faith, based on the knowledge he has from Pakistani papers. I come from a country where a premier of a province once said that it is preferable to have more of our own children than allowing Indians as immigrants.
Nothing personal, just a reaction to your curiousity. The subject remains Pakistan and the united states.
Have a nice day. For me it is of more interst to read comments of Pakistanis since I see a great awakening in coming months and years to shrug off the pressur they currently have from the Imperial USA which is slowly loosing its standing and influence in the lands of muslims.
Rex Minor
Let me ask you guys when you need something you look for it spending hours and when you find it you buy it .Now you will never go to that place until you need it. Same thing is happening in the world today.
“You are a fake and an illusion,”
Hehe. Rex I assure you I am real and I do exist
” from a land where the majority of people are non-believers and have been persecuting minority muslims and sikhs without any consequence and payback.”
Awww so after growing up in German culture, is this the source of your angst? The land of non-believers?? tsk tsk..well, at least we have a minority, 20% of the population, vs most of the Muslim countries where the minorities are ruthlessly exterminated. Save this garbage for your Sunni brethren.
“I come from a country where a premier of a province once said that it is preferable to have more of our own children than allowing Indians as immigrants.”
He probably meant Turks. We all know what Germans think about them. Some of us have traveled quite a bit. And if you think in German, I presume you must have noted Angela Merkel’s statement about the failure of multiculturalism. I am pretty sure it was not aimed at Indians.
“I see a great awakening in coming months and years to shrug off the pressur they currently have from the Imperial USA”
Oh don’t get your hopes too high. This is all a big drama. Just ask Pakistanis about how many of them want to emigrate to the US. You will get your answer.
to rex
What about the extermination of hindus in Pakistan (and also later in Bangladesh) in 1947ff? As against that the muslim population component has grown in India (from 6.5% to 16%). Muslimness is inherently incompatible with indianness, modernity, open-minded-ness and honesty and hence muslims in India are suffering because of their own religion. Blame for that is put on the hindus since hindus are (still) the majority in India and there is the general opinion-compulsion in the pseudosecular anti-hindu component of India that the hindu majority must be always blamed for the sufferings of the muslims. Muslims suffer (not only in India but everywhere) because their religion does not allow them to be honest. Islam compels a muslim to be a bootlicker of arabs and turks and a flatterer of a 7th century tribal-totalitarian arabic god-concept. that si the real cause – but muslims will never be honest by accepting it as the real cause.
Mr Mian and Mr Hiob
Your curiousity continues, as well as your style of telling something but by asking a question. Let us say that you are an imposterI did not say that . Let us say that you are an imposter; brought up in India where children are free to tell petty lies to please themselves, not to deceive others. Like the child said it makes him feel happy.
I did not say that I am a fan of now ex Premier nor am I a fan of Merkel or a fan of multi culti. This is not the Gringo country. People should integrate in the community and not create separate ghettos. Merkel, the former east German and a loyal communist studied at Moscow university as well as in east and west Germany. She is an Alpha animal, perhaps more clever than India Indira or British Thatcher, outsmarting most of her rivals in the christian party.
Because of the possible DNA influence, both Merkel and bona part are against turkish entry into the European community. Turkey does not need France or Gerany but Europe does need Turkey, which is fast becoming a world power.
All this has nothing to do with religion! Hindus are non believers and not only a majority in India but in company of chinese and shintus and budhists are the majority in the world.Does it mak any difference?
Rex Minor
to rex
Fascist and terrorist muslims are the real majority today in terms of ability to dictate the future.
hindus don’t believe in Mohammad and his allah. they believe in someone or something better. you cannot call them non-believers.
if some german tv showed indian children lying or saying that they like to lie then that is no judgement of whole of India. better would have been if you had sued the tv channel for spreading hate against indian children.
@iob
There are things we do not understand and cannot understand, because we are humans. The german docum3ntry was not to melin and did not malign India. The child was as innocent as any child in the world can be! I have always wondered myself how come that hindus practice caste system and do not believe in equality for all humans? What do the Indian hindus learn from their muslim neighbours? In the believers world communities and the State had to overcome the prejudice and make their people tolerant towards minorities, people of different faith and sexual life style etc. It took some time before the Govts were able to ban slavery and discrimination against people of black skin. Hinduism is based on caste system, though any discrimination against this group is no longer legal but are still classified as low caste! People who do not accept the overall authorrity of the super human entity which demands worship and total submission, are therefore regarded as non believers. This is not to malign them.
Rex Minor