Pak Tea House » Uncategorized » Imran Khan: A Rising Force???
Imran Khan: A Rising Force???
Raza Habib Raja
Before I start, let me admit one thing here that I got it wrong and underestimated Imran’s ability to actually bring his facebook supporters to the street. Ok, I admit this is something I had not imagined to be possible in the past. In fact I have been mocking PTI for a considerable period of time for being a political “nobody” apart from being a reactionary party. But no matter what spin I try to give, the fact is that PTI is a force to reckon with, at least in Urban Punjab. Yes one successful political rally does not mean that PTI has conquered Pakistan but it has shown itself to be a rising force in terms of popularity. Reactionary it may still be but it is somebody today!! And Imran deserves full credit for that.
About two days before his rally, I started to hear (on facebook again!!) from several of friends and cousins that they actually planned to attend PTI’s rally in Lahore. Most of them are either young or belong to the white collared urban middleclass which always has expressed severe doubts over the political process and democracy. Most of them have been extremely apolitical in their lives and to find out that they were actually taking the trouble to go to a rally was a big surprise. And despite the fact that I don’t approve of who they were supporting (Sorry I don’t politically support Imran ), a positive surprise.
Today I was watching the clips on the You Tube and was bewildered by the crowd and a huge number of youngsters who had shown up. Imran Khan has been able to galvanize the students and the youth, including those who are often categorised as “Generation X”. Despite having severe disagreement with Imran’s conservative outlook, I could not resist myself from being appreciative of the sight.
And what a sight it was! I will be dishonest if I say that it was not an impressive show. Youngsters, women, children and those who had long become “cynical” were all there. Whether they are backing the right horse is a separate question but the fact is that they were participating. And yes even from the blurry video of You Tube, I could feel what the crowd was feeling in those moments: Hope.
What was in front of my eyes was democracy at work. May be Imran Khan is ISI backed and therefore in essence shady in democratic credentials, but those who had gathered at the venue came their out of their own accord and tried to show their support through an essentially democratic process. Some of my friends have been working for months on galvanising support for today, a fact which has just come to my notice and they by no stretch of imagination have anything to do with ISI though you can argue that they are “influenced” by its narrative.
As a political person, I am interested not only in ideologies but also in the grand scheme of things. Democracy can only function in a sustained manner when apolitical becomes political and when youth starts to participate. Yes mistakes will be made and at times even “reactionaries” will become popular but that is the learning curve of the democratic process. Also if people who never bother to vote and are just busy in their professional lives, start participating in the political process then the democratic process is strengthened.
Now comes the big question? Why are previously apolitical people and youth supporting him? Is it because of his opposition of drone attacks? Is it because he often gives apologetic defence to the Taliban? Partly yes, but this is not the main reason behind the surge of popularity. I think the liberal press has become too obsessed with Imran’s pro Taliban statements to understand that not everyone who is supporting PTI is a Taliban supporter.
I know several who by no stretch of imagination are Taliban supporters but are supporting Imran. Their reason is that the present parties have misgoverned and lack “sincerity”. Imran’s surge in popularity in Urban Punjab is an outcome of complex interplay between changing demographics ( as number of young people have increased), the increasing power of the still nascent social media, potency of the electronic media and the “image” issue of the current political players. Most of the people who are supporting Imran are unanimous that he is sincere and honest so they want to give him a chance. For many of them their political support for Imran is the extension of their personal respect for Imran’s services to Pakistan and not because of Imran’s apologetic defence of Taliban. Yes a few do support him on that count also but that is not the major reason.
The first objection I get from several of my friends whenever I say anything against Imran is that he is a clean person who has rendered great services to Pakistan. They also remind me that in my youth I too used to worship Imran Khan and even used to copy his bowling action. It’s that cricketing and philanthropic record, which is untainted coupled with the fact that right now country is facing a severe load shedding and deteriorating governance quality, which explain his increasing popularity. My friends say that they want rule of law and Imran, being a sincere person will work sincerely to end nepotism and corrupt culture. In urban areas of Punjab, issues like corruption do matter and when finally a person with “clean” image starts looking electable, this may actually translate into some electoral success.
So does Mr. Khan have a political future? Well, in my opinion he will not sweep the elections, but IF HIS MOMENTUM CONTINUES (Folks election are still 1.5 years away and one Jalsa does not mean that you have conquered Pakistan), Urban Punjab will see a definite change and so will some areas of Khyber Pukhtunkhawa. And that is where the buck stops. I really don’t find that Imran Khan’s narrative swaying many in rural Punjab, Sindh (urban and rural) and Baluchistan. The demographics and the ideological bent there are too different. Rural Punjab can be dented somewhat if “strong” candidates join PTI. In future as urbanization grows, if momentum stays with Mr. Khan and provided he has time (he is already 58), yes there may be a permanent shift.
One of the lessons which need to be learnt by the main two parties is that governance is not merely an electronic media generated abstract but a real concern which the rising urban population will eventually factor in. If you don’t improve it, then you will find yourself ceding political advantage in CITIES to clean but reactionary politicians. So PPP and PML (N), I hope you do understand this and so do your supporters.
Filed under: Uncategorized · Tags: Imran, Imran Khan, political, PTI
129 Responses to "Imran Khan: A Rising Force???"
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HEY PRINCES I AM HEARING SOME GOOD NEWS IS THAT RIGHT ?HAHHHHH HOOO
(((7-11 Pinglish is neither wisdom nor tracking the Righteous Path.)))
to akram who wrote:
“I SAID THAT SOMETIMES BACK IF A DOG BITE YOU YOU DO NOT BITE THE DOG BACK ……”
That’s what we hindus said about muslims – and look THE muslims HAVE EXTERMINATED HINDUS FROM THE SINDHU RIVER BASIN.
What dog’s are capable of.
—
to geoffrey of slarpore
I will not come to Pakistan by begging for a visa from a quisling of islam. How do you arrange for that? What about my self-respect? Does the ruler of Saudi Arabia beg for a visa to visit Makkah?
The venom is in islam and I am merely pointing out the danger. Why blame me?
A god who orders the killing of animals in his name … no wonder he produces so many killers.
To Hiob:
I can also arrange for your return (suo motu restoration by you of your ownself) to Pakistan WITHOUT any visa. Or if you prefer a Visa as a safety valve, I will have your Visa stamped by some liberal non-Muslim (or “quisling” of “islam” as you nauseatingly put habitually).
Not wanting to drag this discussion .. I must observe that your “selfrespect” appears (or happens) to be quite complacent as well as chameleon. The Brahmins came to West Pakistan from the West; then you folks migrated from Pakistan towards the Rest of India … all that did not bother your scurrilous claims and monopolization of “Self-Respect”, then YOU migrated from India of today to some Other country, most probably Middle Eastern (I cannot read/discern your current Flag).
Nobody (with any sense of Free Speech and Freedom of Choice) is blaming you, you are imagining things unilaterally as well as indulging linear thiMMMking. Tut-tut!
By the way God does not order killing of animals in His/Her Name. Where did you come across that assunption for your multipronged and hiobhoib-holed consumption.
You have endeavoured your utmost to open a kama sutra of a Pandora box. (But, What you merit is out of box vision.)
I suggest you get off of your secretarianized hobby=horse and take up Art Criticism. In Pakistan we need good Art criticism (not sycophancy-ago’go) and good art critics.
The bonus pertain to lots of pretty damsels have taken up painting and are looking for either exit or Exodus. And most art galleries are run by sexy dowagers or do-little but attractive madames (did I type mistresses, if I did, please ignore that; and … DO NOT THINK OF THE PINK ELEPHANT).
Just to distract you from your fruitless pursuits, and in order to accelerate your sense of homour/honour I query this, to wit
that you please tell (without consulting your reprinted pocketbook dictionary) me WHAT DOES the phrase: ‘DO NOT THINK OF THE PINK ELERPHANT’ connote??
bonus , read bonuses
have , read having
2 matchless typos , equal two full-fludged paintings by Iqbal Geoffrey
The muslims have made up some theories for ridiculing hindus in general and brahmins in particular. And no one in the muslim world dare challenge them. Scientific and honest thinking and courage cannot go hand in hand with islam (=submission, mental slavery under a 7th century arabic finalist-fascist book).
Some non-brahmins too have made-up theories in this regard for hating or blaming brahmins.
It’s great fun reading these theories.
You read how this tajender (supposedly a muslim posing as a downtrodden dalit) was fawning over Muammar Gaddafi and his “greatness”.
That is the typical human intellectual level – the shudra level. No one is born as a shudra or a brahmin – but over the years the differences become evident. Hindu metaphysics says that in the kaliyuga most humans will be shudras.
Why should a geoffrey baron of slarpore stoop to that level?
Imran Khan seems to be just about the ONLY honest person in Pakistan these days… I am also a fan of SYYED MOHUMMED JAWAID IQBAL GEOFFREY OF SLARPORE, BRIGHTON and PACIFIC PALISADES… At least HE knows whats happening… and is NOT afraid or too corrupt to call it out…!!!!
What about this killing of Tariq Aziz.. 16 years old.. along with his cousin/brother 12 years old.. Was this 1 of the drone MURDERS that the Pakistan gov. O.K.ed..?? Is it possible..?? Your OWN children..??
Are you Pakistanis NOW selling your children to the Infidels to murder…??? It’s worse than selling them into prostitution you know….. They can escape the pimps, but YOUR PIMPS sell the lives of your citizens AND THE LIVES OF YOUR CHILDREN…. SHAME ON YOU… SHAME…SHAMS…SHAME You are probably too corrupt to know this….. You NEED Imran Khan to save you from yourselves… Who else can say NO to the DOLLARS for the lives of your people, Men Women and [hard to believe....] your CHILDREN..???!!!!! Whatever else he may do, or NOT do….he will stop the selling of your CHILDREN…!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hiob,
you are upset about my fuklsome, neutral comments that brahmins were imported by brahmins (to wit, uninvited, all by themselves) into india, greater india.
I regard anyone who is core corrupt as untouchable (in dirtier sensde) perverse and shudra.
When you read my comments about Nawazu Sharrr-REEF, emaikl me at pihrights@gmail.com asnd I will send copy of lastest applica
cheers/jafree
My dear Mr. Malik! I am shopping for a trousseau’! However, one never knows from day to day. A “Lady” can only hope! Perhaps you can find the answer from whomever told you of the good news?
Raza! Hope you are enjoying your stay. Would love to meet you while you are on this side of the pond.
Lady Guinevere
Sure Lady Guinevere
I will be honoured!!!!
Regards
Raza
to geoffrey
I am upset about nothing. Brahmins imported brahmins etc. – what sort of theories are you developing?
It is not about who came from where and what skin color he has. It is about being loyal to the land in which you live without downgrading other lands. It is about not being quisling of an alien imperialist ideology. It is about not becoming an agent of arab hegemony upon non-arabs. The british have left India long ago. Now it is the quislings of arab imperialism that have to be told “Quit India” or become true loyal indians.
Hiob,
come off of this hiobhiob. You are right, you are upset about nothing.
I cannot make out your current Flag. Apparently, you are not loyal to that.
Hedge Money is your trait because you are not straight. Please do me a favour, do not strain my Pinglish further.
Pleeje!
what depresses me about the modernday ‘elite’ of my Motherland is that they think they are enlightened/advanced folks but they (mis) behave as nuttily traditional-conservative fringe now desperately laywing sisskeys at the altar of cHANGe.
I have been acquainted-with two very modern (foreign) educated girls,very vocal about Gender Equality and vehement concerning Human Rights. Both became second and third wives.
The Most Successful marriage I came across .. 1978.. (in Chicago) was between Mumbai and Rajasthan. They got married very simply in a Temple (after girl’s father advertised in THE HINDU in Jaipur .. came to Chiccago, no dowry, no jewelry, no trouseau, no fuss, no hooplaw. AND THEY ARE NOW AMONGST 100 WEALTHIEST COUPLE IN THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES.
Here in Pakistan advdertising is regarded as stigmatory and treated as no-no. The net result is that some of the most beautiful girls in Pakistan remain unmarried. Tut, tut. Or like a Saigiol girl marry her chauffeur of en Lyallpur.
Money does not purchase loyalty.
When Imran Kahn comes into power, I suggest he starts a functioning campaign that bona fide Marriage Desiring announcements are published in newspapers and it becomes wholesomely respectablized in stead od characterless marriage-bureaux and expensive faw=faw’kutten-connexion laidies ruling the roost..
couple …. couples
of eb ,,, or/ of.from
111111111111111111111111111111111
lady Guinevere (November 11, 2011 at 6:28 pm):
When are you going to visit the Met?
I love the Met but haven’t been to the opera in years. The last time I was at the Opera was the closing night in Helsinki in ’05 and it was hysterical. I don’t know who was the drunkest; the players or the audience (sans me as I do not imbide!) However, I do hope to attend the opera again soon as I believe I will be having the opportunity!
BTW Sir Geoffrey, the answer is YES, yes, yes! Always has been, always will be. You had me at “hello”!
Lady Guinevere
HIOB
AS I KNOW THAT HINDU KEEPS ON COMING BACK IN THE WORLD .IF SO YOU MAY COME BACK TO THE WORLD IN DOG .SO THEN YOU DO NOT NEED A VISA JUST GO THERE AND DO YOUR DUTY WATCHING SOME MUSLIM HOUSE OUT SIDE AT THE DOOR.AND IF SOMEONE KILL YOU .YOU COME BACK IN TO A HOLY COW HINDUS WILL KISS YOUR ASS HOLE……
SOMEONE IS WORRIED ABOUT CHILDREN IN PAKISTAN .WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT HERE 14 AND 16 YEARS OLD GIRLS ARE PREGNANT .SOME OF THEM HAS BEEN USED ON THE SEX MOVIES 50 YEARS OLD IS HAVING SEX WITH THEM AND THEY ARE CRYING TO HELL……………………
Akram Malik”:
Dont believe everything that you read or see in blue movies. Apparently, “”14 and 16 years old girls”" are crying because they must foego/forewent halva respectively at age fifteen.
More seriously … Hiob should not be insulted, he is a solid humanbeing fully entitled to ALL opportunities, dignities and fullest respect regardless and i can bet all my forex accounts (Grand Total is just around Stg Pounmds 78600.92P) worldwide that he will convert to Islam before he passes away … his resistance is merely the important intervening nakhra no reincarnation would ensue. Take my word for it.
Yes! There are many pee-pull, evil knievel, who need reincarnation as dogie-dogs with all encoutrements. I recommend a book that I ought to have written: <>.
Now my neighbour Madame Asma Jilani Jehangir would complain in Canadian Inglish (with Belgian accent) that Iqbal Geoffrey does not even know how to spell “Hamburger”. That is sufficient cause for denying Jafree the Patel Award for Distinguished Services to Human Rights. So, Malik Sahib, you loose sum and you win know-thing. That is the Heads You Win, the tail the Other looses!!
I can only conclude by liberally quoting the Editor of the ‘pakteahouse’ (instant blog) Raza RUMI, MSc LSE .. “The sins off Geoffrey should not visit Jafree!”
ps:
kindly read foego as forego.
Rest has no typos; or punctuation errors. or omissions.
The title of the putative Book which was the gravaman of my note has been righteously censored by the Editors within seconds of submission. I dig that leVel of efficiency. Fair enough!!
I had naughtily explored the connexion between Art Bitches raining the Artfields in Pakistan and their dry Hambuggering freebie “EVOL”.
Akram Malik shows what upbringing in Pakistan gives/does and has done to its children and youth.
Decent pakistani contributors to the PTH should take this seriously.
Is it how many in Pakistan think, feel, talk, imagine, giggle about, pass on …
—
Akram Malik shows the depth to which a people sink under islamic “education” and indoctrination.
Akram Malik is a product of the child molestation (under the name of education) going on in Pakistan since 64 years.
Decent pakistani contributors to the PTH should be alarmed by what Akram Malik is contributing to the PTH.
hiob, why 64 years? Child molestation is as old as time! In “olden cultures” it was not even considered a SIN! It was just part of culture. Sociological and Anthropological fact! However, when man finally became civilized and realized that most of this behavior was “familia”, and resulted in negative genetic anomalies, ( Ancient Royal Hawaiians are a good reference) this kind of behavior was frowned upon. The negative social impact was only developed with the advent of monotheism and guilt/sin. Now, while you may “slam” religion, mostly Islam, modern western religion did bring with it some social values that are positive and child molestation being WRONG, was one of them. I will agree with you on one point though and that is that in all western religions, in which I am familiar with, since these were mostly developed, Islam being the latest about 1400 years ago, perhaps some of the “laws” should take on a more modern approach so that these laws may be more applicable for today’s society. HOWEVER, child molestation, is WRONG, for many, many reasons. It always has been, always will be and the child/victim carries the damage for the rest of their life!
Lady Guinevere
Sir Geoffrey; Ferengi Rule #22: “No one can make a fool of you.”
Lady Guinevere
lady Guinevere wrote:
What “olden cultures” are you talking about? Do your olden cultures begin and end with Europe, Middle East and so on or do you speak of the Indian Subcontinent as well?
In India “child marriage” was a fact of life! However “child marriage” was considered solely in the context of planning out the life of a young pair fairly early on! That is both male and female participants in the “child marriage” were of similar age. The bride remained with her parents after the marriage until she came of age, after which she could go to her in-laws. “Child marriage” was more like promising one’s child to another family.
Beyond that at no time, was it in any way a sanctioned custom for a much older male to avail of young girls and boys in the Indian Subcontinent! There would have been exceptions here and there, which go against the norm! But the general norm was to have strict social prohibitions against pedophilia and incest. There is a high measure of sacredness about family relations and the well-being of the child! And this sacredness exists in the Indian Subcontinent since millenia.
So I would suggest you to rethink or at least reconsider what you publish. You are making generalizations across civilizations. Secondly if Judaism or Christianity started to admonish any earlier wrong practices, fine and well, but that is not true of Islam. Islam is “unchanging”! What has been codified, has been codified! People are encouraged to follow the path of the “prophet”, and that means a 65 year old can “marry” a six year old and have coitus with her when she is nine!
The Grand Ayatollah Khomeini has himself written a treatise on how you go about molesting a child! He writes, “It is not illegal for an adult male to ‘thigh’ or enjoy a young girl who is still in the age of weaning; meaning to place his penis between her thighs, and to kiss her.”
The Great Blessing of Monotheism indeed!
BTW Imran Khan is simply a British plant in the Pakistani politics. It is one last try of the Brits to get a hold over the politics of Pakistan, and thus on the politics of the Indian Subcontinent.
What the Brits are doing are simply tapping into the large anti-Americanism that is prevalent today in Pakistan and making a virtue out of a necessity. It is simply one last effort by the Brits to make themselves relevant again to the Foreign Policy of USA.
One need look no further than Imran Khan going to UK to campaign for the brother of his ex-wife, Zac Goldsmith, who is now a Tory MP.
All this anti-American sing-song by Imran Khan is just one big political show being directed from UK! Nothing more!
Anyway, Pakistanis always had leaders who were sold out to foreign interests! So enjoy!
THE LADY GUINEVERE:
This foreign rules do not sustain, govern or overRule me. I am naieve simpleton, numerous have made a fool of me. I am the only living artist in all Asia who won a Paris Biennial Award … but 3-penny nincompoops made fun of me in these very columns last year. ‘Bhandari Jhangvi and Consent’ tried to ridicule me falsely suggesting I am not a Harvard alumnus… I took it standing up errect. If I were them I would have exodused by time-machining essential self to Nazi Germany (AntiSemitic!).
I am repelled by the Paki Ess(A)tablishment .. for them the concept Khudi is to selflessly masturbate against merit, all sans grace.
Now, your one sentemce bombshell could also involve double-entendre.
You are in ferengi environment. I concede that nobody can befool you. Or Hiob. I don’t and wont. I invariably respect/reciprocate Human Dignity even while catcalling a spade a hatchet (gandasa).
CONCLUSION:
If nobody in or from New Jersey ever attained IQ or EQ of/= 430, I should not be penaliZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZed for that or mistaken for them.
(En passant, I don’t admire so many contributors of pakteahouse dilly-dallying,and dill-peshoriing, behind facades of pseudonyms.)
lady Guinevere (November 12, 2011 at 4:35 am):
When I said Met, I meant The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. My fault. Calligraphy is a traditional Islamic art-form and Sir Geoffrey is a master calligrapher and collage maker. The newly opened Islamic Gallery at the Met (not the opera house) has many fine pieces of Islamic calligraphy. I suggest that you view these pieces before you meet Sir Geoffrey for lunch. That way you will be much-more able to appreciate and discuss his art.
Sir Geoffrey, of course it is a double entendre. The saying goes, “No one can make a fool of you………except yourself”. We are all in control of our own lives. There is also the saying, “Fool me once shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.” I would like to add another one as I have see it so many, many times and have been guilty of it myself, “keep on fooling me over and over and you need to be locked up because you are a danger to yourself”. LOL! Anyway, why did you take it so personally? That was meant to be rhetorical! I think I have had enough of the “Rabbit Hole”, and Mr. Time and I have found our way to the gate! Its been………well, its been quite an experience!
Lady Guinevere
tu.
to lady G.
I did not want to write a PhD thesis about child molestation, its origins, methods, manifestations etc.
Let’s stay in the 21st century.
To teach children lies, falsified narrative(s) of history, pride in being quislings, denigrating ancestors who refused to become quilsings, glorifying ancestors who became quislings etc. is molestation of young impressionable minds.
Imran Khan just said in a new interview that he grew up hating India. The entire population of Pakistan grew up like that. Every mistake made by India (and India rarely, or, in fact, not at all, did anything to hurt Pakistan or muslims purposefully) was used to add fuel to the anti-hindu hate-fires.
And now the pakistanis don’t know how to extinguish those fires. Fact is: if muslims take to the path of honesty then islam will collapse.
So Geofrrey’s idea that I will end up converting to islam is shattered. My citicism of islam is not based on emotions. The proofs of this criticism are not being invented or constructed or searched or researched by me. The muslims are delivering these proofs of their own accord. And they result from their faith in kuran. Muslims quoting kuran are delivering these proofs.
About that later when I have more time.
HIOB:
I guess that I touched the raw nerve concerning your forthcoming, inevitable and imminent Conversion. More on that later.
In any case, even if Chancellor Immran Khan stated that he grew up hating ‘India’ .. he grew out of it. There are no hate-fires burning in Pakistan concerning hindus or India (i.e. British India minus Pakistan and Bangladesh. The mess that we are in (it is the end-product of hybird-corruption/hyperhypocrisy at the top (The Domino Effect Syndrome taking effect) .. now touching the nadir of both ignominy and outreaching doldrums off chankyan-chicancery (aha!), we will rise ought of it. Your reckless breastbeating about quislings is questionable and not upbeat.
Girls are prettier in TharParKar than neighbouring Bihar.
I think you should return to your ancestoral Sindh and openly take up cudgels starting with art criticism. The River Indus is in full flow. And art doyennes in Pakistan cannot swim. They deserve a deep-dip. Ought and OverSEER…
chicancery .. read chicanery
hybird works but i typed hybrid
sorry!!!
Sir Geoffery
“Girls are prettier in TharParKar than neighbouring Bihar.
I think you should return to your ancestoral Sindh and openly take up cudgels starting with art criticism. The River Indus is in full flow. And art doyennes in Pakistan cannot swim. They deserve a deep-dip. Ought and OverSEER…”
When I am back in Pakistan, I will come to meet you for an autograph!!!
This is satire at its best
Liberal and accomodating as PakTeaHouse is, some drippingly-filthy lines in the above by Raj need to be urgently edited out. Raj is talkinng nonsense and behaving maliciously wickedly and disgracefully.
Raj and Ennuilessness (envy). …. falsehood like that deserves wholesale ughh…vomiting.
I agree with Geoffrey Sb. Raj too, has anyone in PTH offended you so much that you are so insulting? Your post above is demeaning, of bad taste, and filthy. If I were RHR I would probably have promptly removed it. But I guess they keep these posts undeleted deliberately just so all can see what kind of “orks” and “cave men” Indians can be.
no-communal,
Of course my post is disgusting. Because the matter is disgusting. But is it untrue?
Which part is not true? Which part is illogical?
Please do point it out and I will refrain from posting falsehoods!
Raj
Stating one’s pov, even if it is controversial, is a good thing, but it may be better to avoid abuse and deliiberate insult. The latter are the tools for those who have no rational arguments.
Now, to controversial viewpoints:
(1) One would be hard pressed to deny that Imran Khan has been, for as long as one can remember, a rank racist. Even so, he may have been reborn over the last one or two years. Besides, his racism may not come in the way of his administering Pakistan effectively.
(2) It may be helpful to remember that what people like raj are doing is merely emulating examples set by many semitic religions – wholesale slander and abuse of people or religions they sought to replace.
to geoffrey and raj
I have converted myself out of everything and don’t wish to imprison myself again, least of all in any god-concept, what to speak of a 7th century arabic totalitarian-fascist one.
Why does Geoffrey think that someone (forget my person) will convert to islam? What is the psychology of this man that he thinks so? I admit that there are many who will still be fooled or intimidated by islam and convert to islam in future.
Is it that he thinks I am stuck nostril-deep in this stew, so more should fall in and give me company? May be he can then climb on their shoulders and jump out of the stuff. Does this arab god reserve some special places in his so-called paradise for those who make such predictions about conversions to islam?
Fact is: if islam stops being deceitful and violent then islam will collapse. Sweet words-and-promises only bring forth the worst in human beings who accept these promises. That is a fact of history – but muslims have only a falsified narrative of history, so this knowledge escapes their abilities.
The damage-tour that islam is supposed to inflict on mankind, although already 1400 years old, is still not finished. The worst is yet to come and even the liberal or so-called liberal muslims will be contributing to it.
I write in the PTH knowing fully well that I will be ridiculed or ignored. It doesn’t hurt me.
Monotheism is blasphemy and totalitarianism. And it can be sustained only by using fascist methods. And islam is the ongoing proof. Muslims are first victims of this – but unfortunately, in a very foolish or criminal manner, also instruments and agents thereof.
Some (more and more) pakistanis are saying that children in Pakistan are being molested by being taught to hate and be angry, irrational and arrogant, esp. in matters of religion. Due to too much reproduction value of human life has fallen by a huge margin (and the value of this allah-god and his speech-or-act-agents has been magnified inordinately to compensate for it). All that adds up to a disaster.
to RHR
The more beautiful the women (“girls”) of a tribe the more criminal, crazy and cowardly its men.
Muslims are frustrated that islam’s self-glorifying forecasts are not becoming true. So they must blame, vilify, ridicule and denigrate non-muslims and non-islam. This has a long history. And the more they blame and hate the non-muslims the worse the muslims’ situation will be – even after non-muslims are exterminated (as was carried out enthusiastically in Pakistan). Whom will the muslims blame after non-muslims are exterminated? So some muslims will be declared to be non-muslims.
The game is old and tired.
Hiob: I will be brutally frank, if you ever deflowered (in Punjabi it is called ceremonial Nauth-ToRReing) some genuine virgin, you will recollect they keep on saying no. Resistence shrieks appeasement.
So, you must keep pretending no, knowing otherwise … and eventually you will submit to conversion and thus uplift your self. I may not be physically around so let me say Salam and Sayonara. Could you do me a favour, spread the good-word that I do not want to do anything with mistermed Raj.
=============================II.======================================
RHR, Esquire tuvm
and you are most welcome.
@ No Communal
Actually it is just my laziness. However I have removed his comments now.
ladies and gentlemen
freedom of speech is a right but remember every right comes with a responsibility..
@ Mr Raj,
To some extent your calibre is shown by your comments and No Communal is right that it is people like you who bring a bad name to indians.
This site has wonderful Indians like No Communal, hayyer, Bade Miyan Chte Miyan, Vajra, Gorki and the list goes on and on..
there have been times that they have shown their disagreements with pakistani views and at times even liberal Pakistani view but they have shown a decency and instead of using abusive language (which is easy to use as you are sitting behind a computer..there is no bravery in giving abuses on internet), they have used their intellect.
may be people like you dont have their calibre and so you have to use this language..
Mr Raj learn from them to present counter argument in an intellectual and decent manner or perhaps it is impossible for you??
Regards
Raza
RHR,
There is nothing to learn from the Indians you mention! But I’ll try to be more polite!
If you’d however read the comment I posted, you would have noticed that I wasn’t trying to be insulting at all! I was merely stating my impressions of Pakistan from what I observe! It was an honest opinion. Surely it was not flattering, but it was honest nonetheless.
To be frank, I do feel for the people in Pakistan a great deal, because their genetics are Indian, or at least those of 97% of Pakistanis. 2% who have it mixed with Iranians, I consider to be Indian cousins, with whom we had a parting of ways 4-5 thousand years ago. The 1% from Turks and Arabs I could tolerate and don’t really change the basics.
I do care for those in Pakistan. But as long as you’re under the influence of Pakistaniyat, I know there can be no deliverance for you! You (or your pre-Islamic ancestors at least) were once the pride of the Indian Civilization and now you people have become our shame!
Somehow I feel the “Pakistani Liberals” are trying to salvage some respect, but I don’t see really any respect you can salvage.
The only hope is that some generation of the Pakistani people would be able to see the light!
Until then the majority of Indians would look upon Pakistanis with a mixture of pity and disgust!
I can expand on that why that is the case, but you probably already know it. You see the situation in Pakistan with your own eyes.
So regardless for what I feel for the people of Pakistan, I still have hopes that the next generations would see the folly of their ways and change direction.
@ raj
Thanks..
All I want is that you show the same decency which you showed in the above post.
It is ok if you dont like Pakistanis but that dislike can be expressed in a better tone!!!
Regards
Raza
Raj too
It’s not a matter of being untrue or illogical. It’s a question of decency. Every religion or ideology is man-made. In this day and age that should need no convincing. Therefore every incident, story, or moral in faith has a context. Your reference to prophet Muhammad in a most derogatory manner is devoid of context and lacks basic decency to Muslims. (You don’t want anybody to broach the subject of many exploits of our own gods, do you?) The point is every religion has aspects which can only be grudgingly rationalized, that too in the proper spatial and temporal context. I will agree with you if you say that a majority of Muslims themselves have brought Islam under the microscope by claiming logical absolutism and superiority over other faiths. But as far as I know noone in PTH has done that, least of all the genial Sir Geoffrey. (His assertion that hiob will one day convert is probably done in jest, and hiob by sounding like a broken record probably deserves such ridicule.) Of course there’s an oddball Pakistani here and there calling Hindus bandar etc. in pidgin English, but they are best left ignored. You otoh can’t be compared with them because you seem like a serious person. And that is why your insults, completely unprovoked, sound unnecessarily rude and demeaning. I
no-communal,
I don’t agree that there is anything “jestful” when a Momeen like Sir Geofferey asks hiob to embrace Islam. That is serious business. So I responded. Besides it is not Sir Geoffrey who is saying, he proselytized in jest only. That is just your interpretation!
There is a saying, “What is not in the Mahabharata, is nowhere!” I consider that a whole lot of bunkum! I think we all had limited fantasy!
I can’t recall there being any case of pedophilia in Indian holy scripts or epics.
What I said of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) is the truth. Muslims say that! How can it be decent if the Muslims scholars say something about Islam and indecent when a Kafir like me says the same thing!
One could claim that in fact you calling my comments on the Prophet as indecent is Gustakh-e-Rasool, because you are calling his acts as indecent, improper and in fact unworthy of comment.
Every Islamic scholar would acknowledge that the “Prophet” was a pedophile and that pedophilia is sanctioned in Islam. He married a girl 6 years old and “consumed” the marriage when she was 9 years of age. Muslim scholars like Ayatollah Khomeini himself wrote a detailed treatise on how to “enjoy” pedophile acts, even with infants.
In Islam, Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) is considered “uswa hasana, al-Insān al-Kāmil”, the perfect human, worthy of imitation! So there is no question of considering any of his acts as indecent!
In Hinduism we have Purushottam Rama, somebody Hindus too may look up to for morality, but even Lord Rama is not beyond criticism for us, for his act of banishing Sita.
So I being a Kafir, can have a disagreement with the pedophile lifestyle shown by Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). But a true Muslim, should not think twice about the age difference when he is faced with the question of giving away his 6 year old bacchee to a 65 year old man, or worry about what the 65 year old would do with his bacchee!
If a Muslim can do that, then I congratulate him for his convictions. But if a Muslim so much as even hesitates in doing so, then he is actually a “Gustakh-e-Rasool”, and deserves to be treated in Islam accordingly.
Indecency you speak of is relative. Every culture has its own value system. Using the reference system centered on my values, I may consider the above indecent, but for Muslims it is not supposed to be so. There is no universalist claim on what is decent, rude or demeaning.
I am saying that the Islamic Purification Process in Pakistan still has some more way to go. Gentle souls like Sir Geoffrey too must make efforts. Once Sir Geoffrey reaches his perfection as a Muslim, he is most welcome to tell us about the bliss of being a true Muslim, and he is free to approach Kafirs with the offer of conversion to Islam.
to geoffrey
An ideology that fails over 1400 years inspite of having all the resources etc. and can bring forth only new lies to cover up old ones and violence and fascism to defend these lies, an ideology that sets its followers to compete with one another publicly to show off their piety and mental slavery – such an ideology does not hold any attraction for any reasonable self-respecting human being.
If a human being A wants a human being B to eat dung then he(=A) should first do it himself. That A does it does not guarantee that B will be convinced by it and do it himself.
—
Muslims are destined to remain in self-deceit. It is necessary for islam’s survival. Muslim leaders (also “scholars”, clergy, journalists, talkshow-masters etc.) will take “care” that they remain so.
We have to keep telling this – we are not expecting any betterment in them. It is just our duty to tell them as fellow human beings who are endangered by their brand of faithing.
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Islam can be slightly tolerant to non-muslims only after the non-muslims have been reducved to a less than 3% population component. Even then this little tolerance is dependent on the whims of the muslims. The kuran supports muslim whimsicalness and arrogance in many ways. The very content of islam leads to arrogance and closed-minded-ness among muslims. Some of them do pretend tolerance towards non-muslims occasionally.
Geoffrey wrote:
“…if you ever deflowered (in Punjabi it is called ceremonial Nauth-ToRReing) some genuine virgin, you will recollect they keep on saying no. Resistence shrieks appeasement.”
Giving such analogies is a result of accepting Mohammad as the exemplary. That is what/how 53 year old M. though about 9 year old Ayesha too. She later reported that it was disgusting and angered her.
Are muslimized brains and hearts so deadened?
Hiob:
I do not regard you as below contempt. So(w), please mend your ways sua sponte. Sua sponte means ‘of your own accord,i.e., voluntarily’.
Today, I received an SMS. “If you stand for reason. Stand up like a friuitful tree sothat even if you fall down, you fall and grow like a Seed” .. slightly better worded than i can recall.
PSSST! Are you very fond of hanging by your neck, upside down, in the Country of your Residence? Your arguments are absurd and devoid of even an iota of logic. You are harping hypocrisy riding a heinous
hype
as your hobby-horse. I feel sorry for you. And seminally terminate your pretenious and repetitive
correspondence on my part and as far as I am concerned.