Pak Tea House » Opinion, Reviews » If Pakistan was an Islamic country
If Pakistan was an Islamic country
By Dur-e-Aden:
All citizens of the state would be equal: God forbids you not, as regards those who have not fought you in religion’s cause, nor expelled you from your habitations, that you should be kindly to them, and deal equitably with them; surely God loves those who are equitable (60:9).
Muslims won’t be afraid of being killed by their fellow Muslims: And whoso slays a believer wilfully, his recompense is Gehenna, therein dwelling forever, and God will be wroth with him and will curse him, and prepare for him a mighty chastisement (4:94).
Jews and Christians would be treated with utmost respect because they are our Abrahamic brothers: Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabeans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness—their wage awaits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow (2:63).
No matter what other countries do, we would never degrade any Prophet: Say you: We believe in God, and in that which has been sent down on us and sent down on Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob, and the Tribes, and that which was given to Moses and Jesus and the Prophets, of their Lord; we make no division between any of them, and to Him we surrender (2:137).
We would protect the places of worships of all religious communities: And who does greater evil than he who bars God’s places of worship, so that His name be not rehearsed in them, and strives to destroy them? Such men might never enter them, save in fear; for them is degradation in the present world, and in the world to come a mighty chastisement (2:115).
We would never desecrate any holy book: He has sent down upon thee the Book with the truth, confirming what was before it, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel aforetime, as guidance to the people (3:4).
We would try to reach the level of piety that is demanded by Allah, not any Mullah:True piety is this: To believe in God, and the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the Prophets, to give of one’s substance, however cherished, to kinsmen, and orphans, the needy, the traveller, beggars, and to ransom the slave, to perform the prayer, to pay the alms. And they who fulfil their covenant, and endure with fortitude, misfortune, hardship and peril, these are they who are true in their faith, these are the truly god-fearing (2:178).
Men would give women the dowry: And give the women their dowries as a gift willingly (4:5).
Women won’t be forced into marriages: O believers, it is not lawful for you to inherit women against their will (4:20).
We will provide justice even to our enemies: Let not a people’s enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness(5:9).
We won’t punish people for blasphemy in this world but leave the case for God to judge: Those who hurt God and his Messenger—them God has cursed in the present world and the world to come, and has prepared for them a humbling chastisement (33:58).
And lastly our religious or sectarian differences won’t come in between our common relationship of being Pakistanis: To you your religion, and to me my religion! (109:5).
Filed under: Opinion, Reviews · Tags: fear, God, Islamic, Last Day
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What will happen to all the Tanzeems like JUD, LeT, JeM, Taliban, TTP and all the other strategic assets nurtured by the ISI? And, to the Islamic Bomb?
Brilliant article. an absolute eye opener pointing to how hypocritical we exactly are. and @wonderer who ever said that any country does not have the right to defend itself. and terrorists are terrorists, no matter what religion or sect they hide behind
Is there a single Islamic country in this world that is universally accepted as being tolerant of other faiths?
There are close to 50 Muslim-majority countries in the world. Claiming to be “Islamic” would be an extremely tall claim.
Hello Sta!
“…Is there a single Islamic country in this world that is universally accepted as being tolerant of other faiths?
…
yes. It is Malaysia where other faiths are freely practised!-Iam told
This makes me so disappointed.
How I wish Pakistan was created in the name of Islam!!!
If only Jinnah had been a true Muslim and created a country in the name of Islam, instead of for Muslims.. this country would have been Heaven on Earth.
.
But even more disappointing is what is happening to this blog.
Great article. Surprising that the words which speak of peace and tolerance disappoint and irritate some.
If Pakistan would be more islamic then it would be more finalist-fascistic, totalitarian and imperialist. When islam was less on the sleeve the pakistanis were more relaxed and self-critical and less violent. Kuran and hadith are very very problematic when it comes to creating a good society in the 21st century. Islam’s idealized side merely camouflages its fascist-totalitarian side and makes this fascism more “attractive”, more deceitful and thus more effective.
Pakistan proudly and zealously exterminated the hindus in its territory although the hindus had the first right to determine the fate and course of this land. Islam is the alien incursion and intervention. This injustice done by the agents and quislings of islam has created a permanent bad karma for Pakistan.
Beautiful. Reminds me of a wildly popular blog entry on Express Tribune where a Pakistani describes how he had been completely disgusted by Islam until his grandfather explained to him that Burqa was a Hindu custom. Since then he has found his resplendent roots and been living with the Turks.
I’m sorry I was able to personally hurt you by my disappointment at the childish immaturity of the article.
.
This article would look good in a children’s recruitment book by Hizbu Ta hrir..
But on this blog everyone knows about all the different interpretations of Islam, including this one.
Trying to “praise” one particular interpretation only results in a lovefest of like minded believers, and looks good on a blog that is particularly created for such articles, devoid of discussion or analysis.
.
By the way are you not disappointed in Jinnah? If only he would have read this article and created an Islamic country, we would have been so “peaceful and tolerant”. Jinnah lovers have been fighting on this blog for the idea that Pakistan was NOT supposed to be an Islamic country, and here we have this article!!! Would love to see Jinnah lovers here..
Pakistan have this habit of blaming everything bad on the hindus and taking the same opportunity to glorify the arabs and turks and now also the chinese. If arabs send their garbage-bags with arabic script on it to Pakistan then Pakistanis will put it on their heads and dance in the streets with it too.
If you see the depictions of women in ancient buddhist, hindu, jain (or also Moenjo Daro) etc. temples then you will never find a veiled woman but many with exposed breasts and even knees and thighs. With the coming of islamic rape the hindu women had to hide themselves from the muslim rapists and the women started veiling themselves in North-West India. In a society where a woman cannot expose herself to the sun and wind and eyes without having to fear – such a society is a fascist-machoist and criminal-perverted society.
What the author has written is a pure and simple “Motherhood”, every individual of muslim faith should know about it and practice it without expecting the State sponsor for the fundementals of Islam. A modern and civilised country and not a caliphate state with a President or some kind of head of the State. Power with responsibility in the hands of the people and the communities who have to live it.
The world has come a long way from the period of ignorance and primitive past and there is no excuse for the so called muslim countries to keep on staying in the swamp. Let the interpretations of the Quraan Suras be left to the learneds, academics and researchers. It is not for the individuals or the State to determine whether an individual or a group of people be regarded as muslims or non muslims. Equal rights for all citizens without exceptions.
Two quotes from the Prophets of God are worth remembering;
. Let that person be the one to throw the first stone who is innocent …….(Jesus of nazaraith-pbuh)
. Use your brain that you are born with to find the answer to your question, is the commandment of God almighty. (Mohammad of Arabia-pbuh)
Rex Minor
to rex
You prove that revelation is a fake. You prove that the idea of revelation is a trick by some to pretend that they know god’s word and hence all others must become their quislings and mental slaves for al times to come. No amount of regurgitating and re-re-interpreting some so-called revelation will help Pakistan or the muslims anywhere.
What you write: “Use your brain that you are born with to find the answer to your question” is not any commnad from any allahwallah – it is itself the natural consequence of using one’s intelligence and by learning from the mistakes made by others before us. Islam itself is the major jahiliyya and the resulting fascism-totalitarianism of the modern times.
You will however keep praising islam in order to reserve a place for yourself in some so-called heaven.
Pakistan was created for the Feudal Landlords of UP and other states. The feudals still rule the roost. Calling Pakistan an islamic country is an insult to Islam
Use your brain and intelligence is great advise and as the man said ,Islamic countries, people and societies forbid such kuffar practice.If they do use these gifts , they will be out of the prison made by their own make beliefs. Like a spider, they have weaved their own prison net and afraid of light and fresh air carrying the fregerance of human intelligence and constructive ideas. To taste the nectar of naturaly vibrantn life force , they need to step into the light of jahiliya and remove any fear of threatning Godhood and recognzie the divine inner self, free of sin and free from fear of anykind. Not even death can do any harm . Neither afraid of imaginary hell nor enticed by the degrading sensual pleasure of paradise, Away from duality and steady on the path of real Universal Truth using intutive strength , undestracted, unmolestd by any material force, mundane elements of ME dogmas.
Jinnah said: “Islam and its idealism have taught Equality, Justice and Fairplay to everybody.” [25 January 1948. Address to Bar Association Karachi ]
Jinnah wanted these three Islamic principles to be soul and spirit of the Constitution of Pakistan. Any state that is run according to these principles, would deserve to be called “Islamic” in nature. Jinnah wanted a Pakistan that would be “Islamic” by nature, in the sense that the State would treat all its citizens as equals, extend Justice to all its citizens and all citizens would be able to enjoy the blessings of Fairplay. What else is an Islamic State? If any state wishes to be run by the Islamic principles of Equality, Justice and Fairplay, it should adopt a perfectly secular constitution. In their individual capacities, the citizens can be as religious as they like, but the State must be secular. Otherwise, the State will succumb to religious biases one way or another.
Amaar:
If you read these words,”Jinnah wanted a Pakistan that would be “Islamic” by nature, in the sense that the State would treat all its citizens as equals, extend Justice to all its citizens and all citizens would be able to enjoy the blessings of Fairplay…etc” and reflect on what really happenedcenturies later, you will notice that Jinnah never mixed and expressed these thoughts among non-Muslims in his entire life. Perhaps he said these words briefly in 1948 after the birth of Pakistan. Others like you are commenting what he meant that is all.
Islamic society with a history of 1400 years, never gave equal rights to non-Muslims. Remember the Head Tax , Zizya, that was introduced by Muhammad the very day, He and his victorious army entered Mecca. Non-Muslims were always secon-class citizens then as well as today.
So there is lots of hypocrisy that is spewed by followers of Islam.
The kind od spin-doctoring you are adopting will never sell outside Islamdom!
Excellent article!
@Salman Arshad: You always said you hated the Mullah version of Islam! But from your comments above you have shown that you hate all Islam! You despise Islam itself! Typical attitude of Islamophobes in the West! No offence, but if you think Islam is a bad religion then you have a lot of reading to do.
The article is correct. Secularists and Liberals would agree with the article. Zaid Hamid and his followers would agree whats in the article! Imran Khan and PTI members would agree whats in the article! So where is the conflict? Almost all Pakistanis would agree whats in the article except few extremists!
Mustafa
Is the life of Kaffir has same value, importance in eyes of your Godhood? Who created the separation, differentiation between Believers and Kaffirs and addressed them as so?
@ Mustafa:
This article is merely a “version” of Islam. It is a pleasure seeing you in so much joy over this “version” of Islam. But it still is just a “version”, an interpretation.
Just like there is nothing divine about the Mullah version of Islam.
I haven’t made any good or bad judgement about “Islam”, since there are only various man-made interpretations, like this one.
.
Why are you so joyful and excited about this particular interpretation of Islam?
Ignorant and idiotic comments by critics like Salman Arshad, Sachbol, Hiob. On one hand they demand that there be moderate Muslims who speak up but when moderate Muslims present a rational and humane vision of Islam they turn their backs disappointed that there isn’t any spice in the interpretation!
These hysterical buffoons are unhappy either way – let them burn in their own hell.
@ Swami Ji:
Is a Muslim supposed to believe in “Islam” or a particular interpretation of Islam that he would like to agree to?
Very informative article. Its just so tragic that extremists exploit religion in Pakistan.
@Usman
So, Mumbai attack was a defensive act by JUD/ISI ?????
Let do a thought experiment.
Who in the Christian world asking for authentic view of Christianity.
Who in the jews community is asking for authentic version of Judaism.
Just like you can’t re build a jewish temple in Jerusalem as God wants it to be
because Muslim don’t recognize that Jews were given the Land.
Aren’t Muslims going against the wishes of God.
Why did Judaism changed because the temple was destroyed.
Why did Christianity changed because kings and clergy fought for power called the crusades.
All the Schools, Libraries, Money Supply was controlled by the Catholic Church. When
Corporations were formed to stead Indian wealth, they bypassed the clergy. That is why
Christianity reformed.
I don’t see any sign that Muslim world has any internal or external forces that will bring about change
until Oil runs out. Then all hell will break loose.
Thought Experiment
The excuse of different versions or which version is to hide the real nature of islamic dogmatic shenanigans void of any integrity. So far no one have seen, felt or experienced real Islam since the death of Muhammad. The whole thing is sad commentary on so many human lifes wasted for so little. Chinese say that calling the things with correct name is the beginning of wisdom. How do you propose to reform when the problem identified is the object of veneration and worship. You cant reform the dogma unless you accept its shortcomings as all the man made things have. So the conundrum continue and civilized world have live in the hope one day Chinese wisdom dawn on the victims and they stop digging the hole they are in. By now good people of Pakistani must be made known that they have not expreinced even the fraction of torment faced by the indians over many centuries. The islamist deeds in this s 21 century is good pointer to the past Islamist deeds in medieval era when they had the absolute power over Indian civilians . Hust pause a give afew minute thought and contemplate the roots from which Pakistani islam have enmerged from. The soil might be indians but seeds are of alien people, land and nature.
People keep referring to Islamic FairPlay. Please explain with an example, eg, the game of cricket. How would Islamic cricket differ from the game we know and love?
My guess is that Islamic cricket will require
A. It is played for Allah, not for sports fans.
B. the umpires, the captains, the national team selectors must all be Muslim.
C. The pitch must respect the Qibla, so that Kafir bowlers (may their numbers dwindle!) are never hurling balls in the direction of Mecca.
D. It is forbidden for an infidel, Ahmedi or Shia team to take a first innings lead.
If, however, it is determined that the game of cricket cannot be so constructed, then cricket will be deemed anti-Islamic, and the Faithful will boycott the game.
If these 12 points which the writer has mentioned will be the part of
the constitution then it is fine. However, it cannot be called Islamic. If you want to call it Islamic then you cannot ignore other
verses written in the Quran and Hadith against non-believers. Does
anyone have tha courage to ask for removal of thse hateful versus.
Assalam.o.Alaikum,
MashaAllah,
this is a very nice and informative article. In fact you have provided the visitors an opportunity to know and learn about Islam. Today many people are under influence of rogue propaganda of media, that Islam is a religion of extremism and hatred. But this is totally a lie. Islam is a religion of peace and Muslims are a loving nation. In this post you have mentioned about pakistan and islamic world, let me remind to the world that pakistan is an islamic fort and nobody can think to attack us because our defense is in very strong hands and we are not a sleeping nation. PAKISTAN IS, WILL BE AND WAS AN ISLAMIC COUNTRY . We as a Muslim have responsibility to increase knowledge of other Muslims and non-Muslims too. People shall really get knowledge from such posts. I am also using
Blog platform to spread awareness among people about Islam. Collecting beneficial Islamic articles is my hobby. So i have created this blog to share my online collection with people. Hopefully people will get benefit from this.
Thank You for your precious time,
Remember us in your prayers.
Click Here To See My Collection Of Articles.
JazakALLAH,
May Allah bless you with all his blessings.
SowNumb, I will sow you in every court from Adis AbbaAbba to ZimbaZumbaWay for your unFor Give Able hear see. Islam keeps people like me in buzzbuzzyNess.
Swami Ji wrote
LoL! Here is one more ‘ignorant and idiotic’ comment for you! There is no such thing as ‘moderate Islam’. It is all Maya. Those who classify themselves as “moderate Muslims” are those
(i) who have economic and existential stakes in presenting themselves as socially compatible with the rest of humanity, or
(ii) they are really addicted to the good things in life – daru, white women, parties, openness, freedom.
Those who classify themselves as “moderate Muslims” are usually Muslim chauvinists who would give no quarter to any Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc. In fact, in order to compensate for their wayward ways in life, they are even more hardline with respect to India and even Western societies in order to appease the Islamists and to get their permission to continue to enjoy their way of life.
Those who classify themselves as “moderate Muslims” are basically only a smoke and mirror show allowed by the Islamists to fool the non-Muslim societies about the reality of Islam, and in fact they work as the forward troops of Islam to soften up other communities, making those communities accessible to the word of the Islamic “God”.
Those who classify themselves as “moderate Muslims” are sometimes just people who find themselves somewhere on the way between their pre-Islamic identity and Islam, between Humanism and Islam. They just haven’t reached Islam as yet. They are of course forced to present the vestiges of humanism in themselves as another face of Islam, especially so that the Islamists don’t accuse them of being Murtads.
But within Islam itself, there is no concept of “moderation”! That is just show! Just more taqqiya!
So Swamy Ji,
basically you are still ignorant of the Truth about Islam, and like a gullible you have been fooled to think in terms of “radical” and “moderate” Islam. There are Muslims who hate Kufr and then there are Muslims who can hide their hate better! That is the only difference!
I wrote this article for a reason. First of all, the idea of having the word “islamic” in the title was mostly for those who believe that Pakistan was supposed to be one.(I never said anything about what Jinnah wanted as that depends on which perspective of history you adhere to) but if people who claim it was supposed to be or is supposed to be and “Islamic” state, they need to realize what it means to have the word Islamic in your governing policies as it brings with it lots of responsibilities. Islamic governance is not just about banning pork or alcohol, social equality, economic stability and environment protections are some of the main principles as well. and I don’t understand the argument for interpretations.I quoted the verses directly from Quran for the very reason and that reason is that we don’t need interpretations for everything, these verses are pretty straightforward. critics are right to point out that there might be some verses/hadith that can look discriminatory on face value but you have to understand that Islamic jurisprudence have developed over 1400 years of study by different scholars all around the world and even today scholarship in this area is continous. not to mention special attention needed to be given on the context of verses and hadith to understand their full meaning. This still doesn’t mean that we cannot highlight the tolerant and just face of Islam that is in no need of interpretation.
@Salman Arshad: What do ytou mean version? These are verses of the Quran the author has quoted! Which Islam are you talking about? One that does not follow Quran? Sorry but I misunderstand. How much more secular and fair can you get, it promises equal rites for everyone.
I am sick and tired of people like hiob and Salman Arshad., I can watch Fox News anytime I want , dont need it here. I am disgusted with this Pamella Gellar, Robert Spencer, Hussain Haqqani type mentality that almost every thing in Islam and all its ohter interpretations are evil. Its just so racist!Islamophobes are always blaming Muslims for everything just like Frank Gaffney and these other Christian and Jewish Zionists.
Mustafa bhai
Far be it from me, an unbeliever, to have any say in these lofty and private matters of yours, but may be I can save Salman Arshad from the fires of hell that most certainly await him.
Would you reconsider your terrible sentence upon his afterlife if he said “this is Islam, too”?
I mean, you surely didn’t imply that the author has presented ALL of Islam. After all, he/she himelf/herself claimed to have presented a/the FACE.
(Theologically, someone told me – and these matters are naturally beyond Ghazali, let alone an ubeliever – it may not even possible to know ALL of Islam.)
If any of that sounds terribly new, unfair, wrong, and/or causes much anger to swell within the honorable ranks of truly guided believers like you, kindly forgive and ignore – After all, Allah is most compassionate. You posses a much deeper understanding of Islam than I, Salman, or any other Muslim or non-Muslim who disagrees with you, ever can acquire. It is not for others to disagree with the rightly guided ones, but only to listen and learn and follow.
BTW, to the author, you did a very good job of presenting the tolerant and just face of Islam. No doubt about that. Hopefully, salman, akb, and all other Muslims and non-Muslims of all shades would agree. Unstinted felicitations, encomiums, and gratitude are owed to you.
I wonder how a purely Islamic country which follows the Holy Quran to the letter, and is only guided by Prophet Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Him) would treat the following :
1. Idol worshiping polytheist kufr like Hindus who would expect equal treatment : build temples full of idols,freely practise and propagate their faith, and even seek positions of highest power in the land.
2. Ex-muslims who have openly declared their decision in public to leave Islam and join some other faith, or have no faith.
3. Muslim women who marry non-muslim men.
4. People who openly criticize Islam, Quran and Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)…. (even for ignorant reasons, since we are all aware Islam, Quran and the Mohammad dude are too perfect and so there is no need for criticism..)
5. Basically how would an idealized Islamic country, run strictly and purely according to the Quran, deal with people from other faith – say idol worshiping kufr hindoos, who have no intention of :
a. Converting to Islam
b. Paying Jiziya or tax for daring to practise their kufr faith in an Islamic nation
c. Not wishing to get killed, even if they have no intention of following conditions a. and b.
I hope the learned Islamic scholar who wrote this article answers my question. If any other learned muslims wish to answer my questions, they are free to do so as well. After all, I am just an ignorant idol worshiping hindu kufr following a false religion willing to learn about the only true faith…
Ranger
My last post of the day.
You may be willing to learn. Yet your heart seems to be perfectly closed to the truth. Neither teaching you anything nor listening to anything you say will be productive. You go your own way. You are responsible for your own after-life.
Goodnight/Good-day to you.
@Kaalchakra: Brother, you can share your thoughts freely, you are an open minded person , and you dont mean to offend, so you can speak your mind. True we cant present all of Islam at once, but the specific concern of the Liberal Secular front was the issue of minority rghts in an Islamic System. And the author was talking about a system but I think he understood this part to be the main concern. So I think he has tackled some important issues. Islam is a tolerant religion.
The Jews got shelter from the Chrisitans in Muslim lands. Prophet Muhammed SAWW himself put a special decree for special protection of Christians and Christian sites. Also 80% of India population is hindu despite 1000 year Muslim rule which proves that Muslims are tolerant of other faiths. Imam Hussein (A.S) took people of different backgorounds in the Battle of Kerbala.
Anyone can give thier ideas and opinions on Islam as long as its not epersonally offensive.
“Also 80% of India population is hindu despite 1000 year Muslim rule which proves that Muslims are tolerant of other faiths.”
No, 80% of India’s population staying hindu is not a reflection of “tolerance” of muslims. It is because of the strength of the hindu faith and that the hindu religion is a better religion than Islam.
Otherwise, given the kind of pressure muslim rulers – who you say ruled for 1000 years in India – put on hindus, pressures like killing tens of millions of hindus, raping their women, selling their women and children as sex slaves, extraordinary atrocities that can only be compared to what the Nazis did to Jews, treating hindus as slaves, demanding a humiliating tax called Jiziya from hindus for daring to hold on to their faith …….. in spite of all such extraordinary pressures, 80% of India’s population is hindu. For that I can only blame the pride hindus have in their faith, and the deficiency of Islam compared to hinduism.
According to the Quran, there are only 3 options left to the unbelievers or kufr in Dar-ul-Islam, or a nation ruled according to Islam.
1. Convert to Islam.
2. Pay a tax called Jiziya to the muslim ruler of government if you wish to hold on to your kufr faith and live as second class citizens.
3. If you dont want to follow either conditions 1. or 2. …. prepare to be killed.
Now tell us about “tolerance” of Islam and your Quran.
Ranger
You shot yourself in the foot
With those options all Hindus should have converted to Islam by Babar’ time – given their limited options. So either what you are saying is a lie and Muslims were very tolerant or Quran never proclaimed such fantastic stories which you claim.
Hahaha! What an idiot you are!!!
Of course due to a ‘better’ religion like Hinduism you have the caste system, the sati system (widow relocation program!) and pouring-molten-copper-in-the-Dalit-ears system.
Swami Ji,
Muslim rule over India was not 100%. There were large parts of India which were not under any rule. Had muslims tried to have 100% dominion over all parts of India, they would have had a real backlash. As it is, wherever muslim rule was strongest, hindus either converted to Islam, or, lived as 2nd class citizens, paying Jiziya.
Also, I was not making imaginary claims about Islam. Verses of Quran can be easily got from the internet, they are no secret..
Here is one,
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Qur’an 9:29).”
If you want more verses from Quran, especially what Quran has to say about the kufr or the unbeliever and how to deal with such a person, I have no problem with cutting and pasting from relevant sources.
Now you talk of hinduism.
There is no central authority or a book that has to be followed by all hindus. Hindus are free to follow their faith as per their conscience.
You talk of Sati System to criticize hinduism, as though it is common and the norm in hinduism- I want to know how many hindu women have been burnt on the funeral pyres of their husbands over the last 60-70 years. Collect the data, and inform me. There have been probably 2 billion hindus who have walked the planet earth over this period. 1 billion were women. How many of these women were killed by Sati system ? If you can produce proof of even 10 such deaths, hell, I will convert to Islam.
Also, similarly, how many dalits, in the past 2000-3000 have had molten copper poured in their ears ?
As for Caste system, it is a complex system that has had more to do with Indian society than hinduism. As India changes, and evolves, so does this caste system. Caste equations of today’s India are completely different from those 100, even 50 years ago.
Also, I am sure there are many things that seem incongruous about hinduism. Some such things may have been written down in the holiest of hindu books thousands of years ago, and seem out of place today. But as a hindu, I have full freedom to either accept it, or totally reject it – as per my intelligence and my conscience. And I will not become less of a hindu for rejecting things what my holy books tell me. What my holy books say is not incumbent on me to follow.
Can you say the same about muslims and the Quran ? Can a muslim openly reject even a single verse from the Quran ? Can a muslim openly question some of the verses in the Quran ? Or would you say Quran is perfect, and so there is no question of rejection ?
Swamy Ji,
Why would the Hindus have converted to Islam by Babar’s time? The Muslims were never that strong! Whereever they got the chance they massacred Hindus! But they did not get that chance everywhere! In many places they were punched in their faces and got a bleeding nose! So that is why India is still 85% Dharmic!
Can’t you remember the 90,000 wimpering Pakistanis who surrendered in 1971! Faced with solid resistance you melt!
Where do you have that silly pouring molten copper in the Dalit years? Are you high on Afghani hashish?
) Do you have any reported examples of that! Those are children’s bed time stories!
The Sati System was introduced around 700 years ago and that too mostly among the Rajputs! The women thought that anything is better than having to sleep with a dirty Muslim from Central Asia!
Caste System is today becoming a parallel system of jaatis, and not a hierarchical system!
Ha-Ha-Ha What an idiot you are!
correction :
Also, similarly, how many dalits, in the past 2000-3000 years have had molten copper poured in their ears ?
Exactly Raj…Sati System actually became prominent in India during the time of muslim invasion of India. It was usual for muslim barbarians to rape the hindu women and use them as sex slaves after killing and defeating their men in battle. So to escape dishonor at the hands of muslims, hindu women jumped in to fire and killed themselves.
Is Mr. Swami Ji a Pakistani or Indian muslim using a hindu nick ? Figures. Inn logon se ummid bhi kya ki jaa sakti hai….
Yes, this swamiji is a Pakistani using a Hindu name same as Tajender
who regularly spews venom against Hindus is also a Pakistani in
guise of Hindu name.
Tolerance is rare virtue, one not programmed into the human psyche. It must be taught, learned and taken on board in an unnatural way. We ashraful makhluqaat are so much inferior to God’s other creatures in this respect. Just watch a feeding frenzy of pirhanas… none of them eat their own kind, only the “other” species. We are cannibals, killing our own kind for our own petty aggrandisement.
Now why are these Swamy Ji or tejender ashamed to use their Muslim names?
@ Dur-e-aden:
This still doesn’t mean that we cannot highlight the tolerant and just face of Islam that is in no need of interpretation.
It is not about any interpretation of “the tolerant and just face of Islam”, it is about the interpretation of ISLAM itself, that can be “authentically proven” to have either a tolerant and just face or a violent, totalitarian and unjust face. It simply depends on what one wants to believe and reject from historical sources.
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Due to this inherent problem with a religion, and Islam, in our context, that it begets the issue of how it should be interpreted, human beings have over the course of living in this world come to the conclusion that a state should be impartial to any interpretation of a religion or different religions, which has come to be called “secular”.
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That is a very simple and straight forward problem. There is nothing complicated about it.
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Jinnah is very much relevant because he supposedly chose NOT to create an Islamic country, because, please read this carefully, because, there will be people like you who believe in a tolerant and UN Human Rights compatible interpretation to be the true one while people like Maududi would want captured women raped as a form of Islamic justice, and just like you have your convincing reasons, Maududi will have his own convincing reasons, and when they are presented to you, you might simply choose to reject them. And that is fine, because, to “you your religion, to Maududi, Maududi’s religion”.. Even the Quran acknowledges what YOU are probably not ready to acknowledge.
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And if you are not ready to acknowledge that yours is but one interpretation, and is not the “correct” one, but an outcome of your beliefs, then this approach to the matter is rather immature.
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You are as right in your interpretation as are JI, JUD, or the Taliban.