Pak Tea House » Uncategorized » Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?
Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?
By Yasser Latif Hamdani
(Written exclusively for PakTeaHouse. Please give credit when crossposting)
The poison of ignorance and extremism that Bhutto and General Zia jointly fathered during their dictatorial regimes has fully indoctrinated even those who otherwise describe themselves as educated.
This week the Large Hadron Collider at the CERN inched closer to the discovery of Higgs Boson or the God Particle as it were. In this extraordinary story of human achievement, Dr. Abdus Salam is a key player who put Pakistan on the map of theoretical physics. In his homeland though, a group of self-styled champions of Islam have started a posthumous campaign of scurrilous slander claiming that Dr. Salam was giving out nuclear secrets. Forget that even a confirmed bigot like General Zia held a ceremony in our only nobel prize winner’s honour or that no one ever accused Dr. Salam of any such thing; in Pakistan to be a hero you have to actually transfer technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea.
Now consider the case of 11 year old Sitara Akbar. Every Pakistani and his mother in law are citing her as a crowning national achievement, blissfully oblivious of the fact that she is an Ahmadi. To them her religion is suddenly unimportant or irrelevant or is it? How many Sitara Akbars have been expelled from our schools for being Ahmadi? How many productive citizens of this republic have been killed and maimed for believing differently?
Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s National Assembly imagined itself the Islamic equivalent of the Council of Nicea. Just as that ancient bastion of Christian orthodoxy excommunicated unitarian Christians for not believing in the trinity of the father, son and the holy ghost, the National Assembly saw it fit to – primarily at the instigation of the Prime Minister and his law minister- declare an entire sect non-Muslim. Just like the post hoc elevation of the principle of trinity at Nicea, Pakistan’s National Assembly located Islam in the principle of the finality of Prophethood.
This act of our sovereign legislature stood in sharp contrast to the view of this nation’s founding father. On 5 May, 1944, in response to demands of the orthodox vis a vis Ahmadis, Jinnah made it absolutely clear that anyone who professes to be a Muslim is a Muslim and welcome in the Muslim League and that those who were raising the issue were trying to divide the Muslims. Here I am forced to say that I am inclined to accept Jinnah’s view and reject the collective wisdom of our sovereign legislature. There are several reasons which may be cited in this regard:
- First and foremost Pakistan is bound by the United Nations’ charter. Therefore Pakistan is bound to ensure freedom of religion for all its citizens and freedom of religion means freedom of religion according to the definition of the subject of the said freedom.
- Identity is subjective not objective. The state of Pakistan or any other state cannot tell an Ahmadi that he is not a Muslim because it is intrinsic to the faith of an Ahmadi. This is an inviolable, inalienable right as part of right to life which every state in the world is bound to protect. If Ahmadis say they are Muslims they ought to be accepted as such.
- Pakistan is a signatory to the ICCPR and without reservations since June 2011. Therefore every piece of legislation that discriminates against Ahmadis or forces a label upon them is ultra vires the ICCPR.
- The Islamic argument: According to the Holy Prophet (PBUH) anyone who utters the Kalima Shahadah is a Muslim. None of the Kalimas, including the Primary Kalima Shahadah contains any reference to the principle of the finality of Prophethood as understood by the Muslim majority today.
- Finally because by conduct and promise, Pakistani state is estopped from claiming otherwise. In 1947, Pakistan laid claim to Qadian as a Muslim holy place, a counter-blast to Sikh claims on Nankana Sahib and Hassan Abdal. Similarly in 1946 elections which is the basic referendum on the question of Pakistan, Ahmadi votes were instrumental in getting Muslims Pakistan. These are undeniable facts of history.
Therefore- fully aware of the stigma attached to this statement- I concur with Quaid-e-Azam Mahomed Ali Jinnah, thefounding father of Pakistan that Ahmadis are Muslims, if they say they are Muslims and no one, not even the sovereign legislature, has the right to say otherwise.
Filed under: Uncategorized · Tags: Ahmadi, Constitution, Jinnah, Muslim, Pakistan
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@AKB
By the same logic you and your ilk should go to KSA the land of your profiteer & paedophi PBUH(PISS BE UPON YOU).
Masha allah kya khub kaha!!
@ AKB
Your frothing from the mouth, your complete lack of decency and your fits remind me of a long list of indispensable souls, who stood to oppose God’s holy men and did little beyond making historical fools of themselves.
@ Kashif
Mirzai’s are a pucca fasiqeen and murteds…were they not they would be an offshoot of the sunni muslims and doing ”’ little beyond making historical fools of themselves.” in your own words!
/
I want to know why you remain quiet and indifferent when some posters here malign Hadrat Muhammad and other Muslim personalities??? It shows that you are non-Muslims and only wake up when there is a mention of Mirja ghulla…
shame on you, hypocrites!
@ NDelhi
Oay Dilli ke kutte , don’t you dare talk ill of Mirja ghulla….
@ AKB
//…I want to know why you remain quiet and indifferent when some posters here malign Hadrat Muhammad and other Muslim personalities…//
I hope you realize that there is a difference between responding to “posters” and responding to “foul-mouthed idiots”. It is the latter that I prefer not to respond to because it amounts to “bhains ke agay been bajana”. My regrets to the “bhains” community for likening them to foul-mouthed idiots like yourself.
to kashif
AKB is the usual result of islamic sunni-fascist upbringing. Islam is fascism centred on Mohammad and kuran. Muslims suffer because of it, then they blame non-muslims for their sufferings. Since ahamadiyas now have the good honor of being non-muslims (of which the ahamadiyas should be happy) they have to suffer all kinds of slander, abuse and violence at the hands of all these muslim AKB’s. The ahamadiyas did the foolishness of fighting to create Pakistan. They slandered and ridiculed hindus in order to show off their love for Pakistan. If they had been intelligent then they would have realised that Pakistan was going to be an sunni-islamofascist land. History does not forgive such blunders.
@ ahem
/
I haven’t seen a bigger idiot than thy! If Islam is fascist why do the Mirzai’s insist on being Muslims?? There is certainly wrong with these Mirjai’s …..as well as Indooo’s like you.
//
Which one of the following are you?? Deshpanday??
/
A BIHARI (like you) WAS WORKING IN MUMBAI, AND DID NOT MEET HIS
.
Wife for four (4) years while his wife was in Patna ( Bihar )…
.
At the end of 4 years he distributed sweets to his
colleagues in office stating that his wife had delivered a son.
.
His colleagues were quite shocked and they asked how this “Happy event” happened when he had not seen his wife for four years….
.
The man said it is common in Bihar that neighbours take care of the wife (good Samaritans) when men are away.
.
The colleagues asked him, “What name will you give to the son?”
.
The man explained, “If its the second neighbour who has taken care,then the name would be “DWIVEDI”;
.
If it is the third neighbour then it wouldbe “TRIVEDI”,
.
If it is the fourth neighbour then it would be “CHATURVEDI” ;
.
If its the fifth neighbour then it would be “PANDEY”…
.
After listening to this, questions followed.
.
What if it is a mixture of neighbours?
“Then the boy would be named “MISHRA”…
.
And what if the wife is too shy to tell the name of the neighbour?
Then it would be “SHARMA”…
.
But what if she refuses to divulge the name of the neighbour?
Then the name of the child would be “GUPTA”…
.
If she does not remember the name then?
“It is YAAD-AV”
.
But who knows whether the child resulted from a rape?
Then it will be named “DOSHI”…
.
Finally, if the child happened because of wife’s burning desire?
Then he will be named “JOSHI”…
.
And if the whole country had made efforts for the happy arrival?……
“DESHPANDEY. “
@ Kashif
If you go through the entire thread you will note that many posters, especially the Hindus and other non_muslims or atheists had been badly abusing Prophet Muhammad and slinging all sorts of mud on their character. Those poor
“foul-mouthed idiots” do not even seem to know anything about Mirja ghulla the shaitan. But it will be noted that hypocrites like you couch up before them like cowards and instead of responding to them you only neck out when it comes to Mirja Ghulla. It clearly shows you have NO reverence for Prophet Muhammad or his friends and are rightly adjudged as followers of an idiot mullah of Punjab named Mirja Ghulla….
.
I bet you to point out a single instance where I have bad-mouthed Prophet Muhammad or Muslims. It’s only the deviates and disloyal apostates like you
that I am compelled to comment upon because they lie and talk rubbish.
@ ahem (July 30, 2012 at 7:16 pm)
I would have to disagree with you on several accounts. AKB, his mentality and his language are the result of anything but Islam. The Quran teaches us: “Qoolu linnaasi husnan”, meaning “speak to people with beautiful speech”. AKB’s speech is outrightly indecent – far from being beautiful. Ahmadis already have the honor of being “Muslims”, regardless of what any worldly parliament or constitution says. We neither require any certificate nor would we want any. No one knew “Islam” better than Hazrat Muhammad and what he said was that anyone who calls himself a Muslim is a Muslim. That ends the debate. Ahmadis call themselves Muslims and are therefore Muslims. The reason for the Ahmadis supporting Jinnah was a principled one. If a disadvantaged minority seeks its rights, it is rightful in doing so. The Indian Muslims were the disadvantaged minority as were the Muslim-majority Indian states, who rightfully sought their rights and Jinnah was their able spokesman. If Pakistan was a blunder, it was Nehru’s. He should have offered commitment to the Cabinet Mission Plan, if he was really committed to keeping India undivided. Also, please remember that Pakistan as imagined by Jinnah, was meant to be a truly secular state comprising of the Muslim-majority states of India.
@ Kashif
You are a funny guy!! By treacherously uttering the words that you are a Muslim doesn’t make you a Muslim. Spies have been doing that too. But admit you are traitors of Islam …patent MURTEDS, MUNAFIQA AND FASIQEENS!
.
Sweet words are no solace ….you may be butter lipped as you Mirja Ghulla who tried to fool you and assailed the notables of all religion including Hindu’s and Christians. You are the worse kind of Mullahs….and you stand NO chance in the world because of your rabid and nonsensical picking at the Quran and personalities/scriptures of other religions !!
You are PARIAHS and are destined to remain so until eternity.
…
And stop quoting lines from the Quran to non-Muslims who have evidently proved averse to islam and abusive to their Prophet. Why don’t you quote from you Mirja Ghulla while answering queries by others?? Why do you hide his bullshit??
/
Non muslims can find all about Mirja Ghulla and his cult here….
/they can also send their queries here…
/
http://www.irshad.com
Kashif:
You seem like a reasonable guy but I am not sure I follow your logic.
.
1. “If Pakistan was a blunder, it was Nehru’s. He should have offered commitment to the Cabinet Mission Plan, if he was really committed to keeping India undivided….”
.
Why so?
Unless you are implying that none other besides Nehru had any responsibilities to the nation.
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2. “If a disadvantaged minority seeks its rights, it is rightful in doing so….”
.
TNT supporters have yet to answer this question which was first put by BR Ambedkar to the AIML in the 1940s.
How was a demand for formation of a Muslim homeland in the Muslim majority provinces going to help them in the minority ones?
Specifically, How did the formation of Pakistan help the 140 million Muslims still in India?
Kashif
The Quran does not mandate ‘beautiful speech’ in any general sense. For conversing with unbelievers who refuse to believe, the Quran lays down two rules -
(1) Ignore their opinions and arguments. Tell them to go their own way (and face the various unpleasant consequences of disobeying Allah).
(2) Use strenth in various ways, including the use of strong language – although criticising other’s (false) gods is deprecated lest others criticize Muslims’ (true) god.
In fact, right in Al Baqarah itself, Allah repeatedly and explicitly requires that the reader/Muhammad use very non-beautiful language to unbelievers.
Nor is speaking beautifully to all an Ahmedi requirement. Mirza Ghulam Ahmed used very strong language against those who did not believe his claims – Muslims and non-Muslims alike. That tradition continues on Ahmadi discussion forums.
to kashif
As an ahamadiya you are not in a position to be honest. The kuran contains contradictions, ambiguities and inconsistencies. That makes it impossible for muslims and ahamdiyas to be honest. The huge number of conflicts, confusions and bloodsheds among muslims prove this.
All attempts to have a decent dialogue with muslims fail because of the muslims’ need/compulsion to be dishonest (deceit, self-deceit) in order to defend or glorify their ideology/religion.
Why do we non-muslims still try this dialogue? We continue to hope that the muslims are also human beings and hence sooner or later they will discard this dishonesty. When will that happen? How much bloodshed and violence will we have to go through yet?
Why are muslims of today – who did not create islam or kuran – so bitterly possessed and zombified in their desire to glorify or defend islam – even though it is costing us huge losses in terms of human lives and resources?
Can you answer these question in a way that I can have the feeling that you are being honest, that you know what it means to be honest in the 21st century? The 21st century is cursed with its own lies and deceits – why add the ones from the 7th century into it?
@ AKB (Aug 3, 2012 at 1:11 am)
I truly pity you. In fact I have always had the greatest of sympathies for all mentally challenged persons. With no intention of subjecting your brain to any more unduly excessive stresses, I would like you to think and tell me who decides whether you are the treacherous spy or I am. And please don’t put too much stress on your mind as you do so. By the way, since you like to be so objective in you research on the Ahmadiyya perspective, let me suggest another site to you. Try visiting:
http://www.alislam.org/
@ Mythbuster (Aug 3, 2012 at 4:54 am)
I can see that you and I obviously do not share perspectives, but I must admit that you speak with much greater decency than another well-wisher of mine, namely AKB. I am certainly not saying that Nehru was the only player. What I am saying is that under those circumstances, the the Cabinet Mission Plan was perhaps as close as Undivided India could have have gotten to remaining undivided. If Nehru had committed himself to this plan, to the extent that Jinnah did, the outcome of things would have been different. Before coming to your question, let me first state that I’m a huge admirer of Ambedkar. He was indeed a very able person. The formation of Pakistan was not for the Muslim residents of the Hindu-majority provinces of India because no mass migration of population was ever envisioned by Jinnah. The formation of Pakistan was for “all” residents of the Muslim-majority provinces of India. The fact that thousands of people had to migrate due to the partition of Punjab and Bengal, was a most unfortunate outcome that had nothing to do Jinnah’s vision of Pakistan.
@ Kaalchakra (Aug 3, 2012 at 9:55 am)
“Qoolu linnaasi husnan” meaning “speak to people with beautiful speech” is definitely the general teaching which is applicable to all normal situations. In response to persistently indecent speech, however, one would respond with a more firm tone. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad used a firm tone only in response to abusive speech and that too when such aggression was aimed at his master Hazrat Muhammad.
@ Kaalchakra
/
I agree with you on ‘beautiful speech’ to enemies of Islam, the Mirjai’s who are 101 % adjudged Murted, Munafiq’s and Fasiqeens.
/
Try what they may but the Mirjais cult must know that ”sweet words cannot butter parsnip”……….they must stop playing with words and preaching a false doctrine based on the ugly views of a Punjabi mullah, Mr Mirja Ghulla….who was admittedly an agent of the British, a traitor to Indian cause, a turncoat Muslim, who lived off dole from his British lords.
/
If the Mirjai’s continue with their ”sweet poison” they will suffer worse hard times not only in Pakistan but everywhere. They can keep thier ”shweet whords”’ to themselves and must employ jargons from their false frofet while putting up cowardly and apologetic explanations under cover of Muslims.
@ Kashif
/ never seen a more dastardly jerk than you. I can send you as many websites about Mirjai’s as you want and you don’t have to tell ‘granny to suck eggs”!!
/
Let the Electronic Act come into force and I will take you and your likes to law for blasphemy and preselytising through electronic media….then only will you understand how to behave.
@ ahem
Muslims have to defend their religion because it IS their faith. Try to debate in favor of Holocaust with a Jew and see how he kicks your ass! Maybe in some western countries you will be jailed or perhaps hanged!!
/
Frankly speaking your views are totally biased against Muslims and Islam and you have little argument to justify your prejudices. For a handful of Muslims fighting in self-defence, to free their land from aggressors and occupiers —and they are right in their own sense as anybody has the right to fight against intruders to his house and fight them…..it is ridiculous to sling mud at the whole Muslim umma and you don’t seem to be in a lucid moment to think about what you mumble in your madness. You and Kashif belong to the same category,,,pot calling a kettle black and vice versa.
@ Kashif
stop preaching Mirzaism as such preaching is banned in Pakistan. If I knew your true identity and address I would have complained to the concerned authorities to take strict legal action against you under the Blasphemy Laws. Be good enough to send me you address so I can visit you with the true kinda Muslims to teach you manners. Hower, in any case I have made mental note of your advocating Mirjaism to a Muslim and will soon see you after I track down your whereabouts and show you the result of the Blasphemy committed by you. Keep ready!
Dear Dr Kashif Chowdhary:
Let me start by registering a small complaint. I am mildly insulted to be included in the same sentence as the other gentleman who has been addressing you in not so flattering terms and with whom I have nothing in common. (I am only kidding :-) . )
Now back to your statement.
.
“The formation of Pakistan was not for the Muslim residents…………. The fact that thousands of people had to migrate due to the partition of Punjab and Bengal, was a most unfortunate outcome that had nothing to do Jinnah’s vision of Pakistan….”
.
If you believe that, then you have been misinformed.
Read the next post; reproducing words of Ambedkar, though a critic of the congress himself.
Then following that read Jinnah’s own quotes clearly outlining exactly that; that he expected people to migrate to and from the land of Pakistan, based on their faith.
.
My reason for doing this is not to denigrate your founder in your eyes; only to set the record straight.
Given the recent uneasy history of Pakistan many liberal Pakistanis such as you, especially from the minority segments have started to realize that Pakistan is a very minority unfriendly place. Even if it’s government made up of the liberal elite, it governs weakly fearful of the real power on the streets, made up of ever increasing illeberal middle class mob.
.
From it’s inception, Pakistan has been a very minority unfriendly place.
It started with the ethnic cleansing of it’s Hindu and Sikh populations.
Next followed the Hindu supporters of the AIML like law minister JN Mandal.
Next came the Bengalis of East Pakistan.
Once they left, it now the turn of Muslim minorities, the Ahmedyas, the Shias etc.
Yet, none of you, the minorities realize the irony of the story of Pakistan; a nation founded out of a movement supposedly to safeguard minority rights.
Since 1947, the single most important reason for the minority woes, whether the massacre of Gujarat or demolition of Babri, the holocaust in Bangladesh or the state sanctioned ostracization of the Ahmedyias; the one common factor is that all this stems from the exclusivist rhetoric of the Pakistan movement.
On one level it is admirable of your patriotism and your character, that though Pakistan abandoned the minorities, the minorities never abandoned Pakistan from their hearts.
In 1955 Nehru offered Abdus Salam an Indian Citizenship, complete with a role of his choosing; Dr. Salam refused.
Today, young people like you, Yasser Hamdani and others, though from the minorities, have only blamed the rulers of the day, never questioned the basic idea behind the angry and bitter divorce from the organic whole that is actually to blame.
But question you must.
You must do what they teach you on medical grand rounds:Question everything; find out for yourself. Only then can one grow.
In the recent years, many prominent Indian Muslims, from MJ Akbar to Noorani have bluntly called the TNT and the partition a flawed idea, based on a ‘flawed DNA’.
MJ Akbar eloquently paid homage to resilient people like you when he said:
‘An average Pakistani is stronger than the idea of Pakistan’ even as he pointed the sometimes ethical and moral lapses of the Indians by adding that ‘An Average Indian is weaker than the Idea of India’.
One doesn’t have to vilify Jinnah; let the dead rest, they deserve it.
But seek and you will find; the story of mid 20th century India, why one of it’s sharpest minds, it’s finest patriot and lawyer became the instrument of it’s division amidst rivers of blood. It is the tragedy of India; and the Tragedy of Jinnahbhai of Gujarat…..
For Dr. Kashif C:
1. Dr. B.R. Ambedkar in his famous book on the eve of partition wrote:
“One need not quarrel over the question whether the Muslims are a nation or a community. But one finds it extremely difficult to understand how the mere fact that the Muslims are a nation makes political isolation a safe and sound policy?
Unfortunately, Muslims do not realise what disservice Mr Jinnah has done to them by this policy. Pakistan is unnecessary to Muslims where they are in a majority because there, there is no fear of Hindu Raj. It is worse than useless to Muslims where they are in a minority, because Pakistan or no Pakistan they will have to face a Hindu Raj. Can politics be more futile than the politics of the Muslim League?……
.
…..(Kashif, now pay attention to the following lines)
……The Muslim League started to help minority Muslims and has ended by espousing the cause of majority Muslims. What a perversion in the original aim of the Muslim League! What a fall from the sublime to the ridiculous! Partition as a remedy against Hindu Raj is worse than useless” ( Pakistan or the Partition of India, Thacker & Co., Bombay, 1946, page 358).
.
JINNAH’s QUOTES CALLING FOR MASSIVE POPULATION EXCHANGES:
.
1. Jinnah told the BBC on April 3, 1946, that “these areas, like Madras, for instance, will have a Hindu government and the Muslim minorities there will have three courses open to them:
They may accept citizenship in the state in which they are.
They can remain there as foreigners, or they can come to Pakistan.
I will welcome them. There is plenty of room” (Ahmad, Volume 2, page 282).
.
2. On December 10, 1945, Jinnah said: “It is possible that there will have to be an exchange of population; it can be done on a purely voluntary basis” (Ahmad, Volume 2, page 263).
Then on November 15, 1946: “The exchange of populations will have to be considered seriously as far as possible, especially after this Bihar tragedy” (ibid., page 364).
And on November 26, 1946: “The authorities, both central and provincial, should take up immediately the question of exchange of population.…” (ibid. page 371).
Still later on April 30, 1947: “Sooner or later exchange of population will have to take place.” Both states will have to carry it out “whenever it may be necessary and feasible” (Mehrunnisa Ali, page 372).
.
Like I said, if you seek you will find, there are endless quotes like these…….
I always thought AQK build the bomb. I can’t believe what he said about the water car.
Kashif,
I hope you see why unbelievers might find AKB’s position to be far more honorable than yours.
All three of us – you, AKB, and I agree that at no time does the Quran encourage ‘beautiful speech’ toward those who might be seen as enemies of Islam. Au contraire, the Quran almost always makes sure to include language or suggest action considerably less than beautiful every time it mentions an/any unbeliever.
Beautiful speech toward those who agree with you is easy and trivial – although even that is not a focus of the Quran. If one is a believer, it is hard to fault AKB for his harsh words against those he sees as enemies of Islam.
P.S.: The Quran is so very unambiguous in this matter that even the great sufis clearly limited beautiful speech to those whom they did not see as enemies of Islam.
to AKB
Muslims have the right to defend their religion (islam) in MAKKAH.
Outside of Makkah islam is just another arab imperialist ethnofascist ideology to be rejected and kicked out. Islam is to arabs what nazism was to Germans who voted for Hitler.
You, also a non-arab, did not create islam so why should you waste your emotions and intelligence on defending it, that too a fascist primitive arab ideology?
I think you need to come out of your islamic and pakistani indoctrination which is based on many many lies. I am not claiming that everyone else is honest, but let us concentrate on your ideology and emotions in the PTH. PTH is a pakistanis’ website for interaction with non-pakistanis (that is what I suppose) and there is no need to discuss events outside of Pakistan in it.
Is that an acceptable basis for a good discussion? You decide with a calm mind.
to miles to go
AQ Khan treacherously stole technology from Holland to build a-bomb for Pakistan. It was never his brain-child. So why wonder that he supports the water-fuel-car idiocy? If you read his articles in the Jang-News then they are all an islamofascist propaganda nonsense.
@ AKB
Good News for you – Schizophrenia is no longer completely incurable – it’s manageable.
@ Mythbuster
First of all, please accept my apologies for mentioning your good name with AKB’s in the same sentence. Oops! I did it again. I’m sorry once again.
Thank you for the quotes you’ve sent from Ambedkar as well as those from Jinnah. I’ve already shared with you my opinion on Ambedkar. He was truly an intellectual giant and in my opinion much greater than Nehru. While you have, with great kindness shown appreciation for my patriotism despite the treatment that I receive from my fellow-countrymen, I must inform you that my love for my homeland is independent of the treatment its dwellers extend to me. It is a huge tragedy indeed, that a country that was formed in the name of minority rights eventually became the venue for the denial of minority rights. Notwithstanding the magnitude of this tragedy, one does need to acknowledge the fact that today’s Pakistan is nothing close to what Jinnah had imagined. Wasn’t it Jinnah who said in the most important speech of his life:
“You are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed. That has nothing to do with the business of the State.” [11 August 1947].
Wasn’t it Jinnah who declared:
“Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State – to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims – Hindus, Christians and Parsis – but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.” [February 1948].
Pakistan has steered away from Jinnah’s vision of a truly secular Pakistan and is suffering the consequences of it’s deviation.
@ Kashif
Everything seems yellow to your jaundiced eye. It’s you who are deranged who need to go to a shrink.
/
Borrow some truth and wisdom from other nice folks here such as Kalachakra if you want to be emancipated from my harsh and haughty reaction to your bullshit!! I hate traitors…..any traitor…either of faith, nation or friendship! And you are the one who betrayed his own faith and yet call the ‘faithful” wrong….It’s good that blasphemy laws have been enforced to fix up fault-pickers and religious bigots and idiots like you,,,,
@ ahem
Undoubtedly you are a scourge of Allah on earth. Your place is in Mecca …do go there and see how they rip off your neck in one stroke!
@ ahem
LISTEN
/
CHEEN OR ARAB HAMARAY INDOOSTAN HAMARA
MUSLIM HEIN HUM WATAN HE SAARA JEHAN HAMARA….
/
MUSLIMS HAVE ALREADY TAKEN TWO CHUNKS OUT OF MOTHER INDIA’S FLESH. DO YOU WANT HER TO BE RENT INTO MORE PIECES?? MUSLIMS WILL ALWAYS BE THERE FOR THE JOB!!
this thread has long done its toil and out of hospice is now stinking in the hearse, High time it ought to be buried.
AKB,
specify your genetic origin!
to AKB
You are an expert in blowing life into dead stinking bodies.
Muslims can take over the whole world and then they will end up deceiving, hating and killing each other with a ferocity and fanaticism never before seen upon the earth. Then there will be no decent human beings on the earth anymore to suffer under islam.
I am not a scourge of allah – I am a scourge upon fake gods like the arabic-mohammadan allah.
BTW you just admitted that Makkah is not a holy place but a place for killers and rogues who cannot tolerate any truth. Muslims often end up inadvertently admitting/exposing the evils in islam and due to islam.
AKB
How you planning to get to Cheen? Ghazwa or by visa?
Might not work out either ways..
AKB,
for your Ghazwa-e-Chin, you need to show some progress. Till now it is just words. Have you undertaken any concrete step till date in the direction or is it just hot air?
@ padmoot/mulestoho/vaham
//
you three trolls need to get a kick in the crotch….and sent to hell!
Ever heard of ‘WMD’s”?? No? well, they are fit medicine for people like you.
//
There is NO place on earth where Muslims are not found. Cheeni Musla’s are already taking caring of their brothers.
//
Here is an eye-opener for you….dirty rags! You Hindians are dooooooomed!!
/
HINDIA IS WORSE THAN PAKISTAN!!
/
How the political class has looted India
A. G. Noorani
/ http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article3700211.ece
The Hindu
TOPICS
crime, law and justice corruption & bribery
election political candidates
politics election
politics
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Politicians dutifully disclose their increasing assets at each election but no questions are ever asked about how they acquired this wealth nor are any explanations provided
“Study these four men washing down the steps of this unpalatable Bombay hotel. The first pours water from a bucket, the second scratches the tiles with a twig broom, the third uses a rag to slop the dirty water down the steps into another bucket, which is held by the fourth. After they have passed, the steps are as dirty as before… They are not required to clean,” but simply to execute an assigned duty. V.S. Naipaul’s famous remarks in his early work An Area of Darkness aptly describes the sheer futility of the ritual disclosures of assets by election candidates. The media performs its duty, each time, of comparing the latest figures with the ones disclosed only a few years earlier; marvelling each time at the talent our political class has of amassing money in a short time with none to demand that they account for the dramatic increase. We have moved far from the early days of independence when Rajaji described the tribe as gentlemen without any ostensible means of livelihood who can be rounded up by any magistrate on a charge of vagrancy. At whose expense have they acquired this wealth? And to whom should it be returned?
Arab Ki Bund,
Who gives a rat’s ass what A.G. Noorani has to say!
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But in this case he is right! Indian politicians have looted India. So why is there khujli in your Bund?
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As far as Chini Muslas are concerned, Chinis screw them day and night! Chini Musla’s chaddies are always red! Pakis of course don’t care about that, because you are all busy sucking the lund of your taller than mountain fliend!
to AKB
India is improving in spite of the loot by the political class, which is mostly comprising of bootlickers of islam.
Pakistan is degenerating because of the loot by the political class, which also is mostly comprising of bootlickers of islam.
So A. G. Noorani, this quisling of islam (like you), can now compare notes with you.
The China ghazwa will begin on the 14. August from Islamabad. You can join with your brothers like Ajmal Kasab. By 21st August you should be all in Beijing taking over the city. You will see many islamic “miracles” on the way. And your musli-martyrs (actually pseudomartyrs) will protect you against the mosquito bites. You know how bad the mosquitos in Tibet are.
@ ahem
stop fantasizing. India is doomed for hell. Read the script on the Wall and stop worrying about Pakistan, the Land of the Pure.
@ rajmoot
In your senseless puking you become totally bereft of civility and manners, the lack of which is a hallmark of rajmooti jerks like you.
Abusiveness is your main trait and you can continue with your frustrated barks. I know people like you are doomed forever….as is India going to be torn in pieces soon.
//
Cheeni Muslims are heavy weights as are the Indian Muslims…..no one can dare bully them…if they do they will repent sooner or later. A bunch of the Alqaida has already given a hard time to the world powers….who have badly failed in over-powering them with all their might. Imagine what they can do to India or China!! Tauba karo mian,,,jaali raj ki aulad!
to AKB
Hell is better than the heaven of the arab god. In the arab god’s heaven you are just a drugged zombie being coddled by some stinking-spitting houri.
For all the difficulties that your beloved al-qaidas etc. can cause to us they kill more muslims. To the muslims they cause greater havoc.
@ahem
You are simply frustrated because you havent been promised houris or anything but rebirth as dog’s , monkeys and pigs. A stinking houri is better than a wretched bitch that hovers above your head to take charge as soon as you popped off.
Mind it the Mirjai’s also believe in houris and heaven,,,,,,,similar to the Muslims. Try not to antagonize a Mirjai such as Kashif Mirjai lest you want to be sent to their hell if not ours.
Pakistan or NonPakstan makes no difference. Dr. Salam gets the Nobel ,he becomes a Pakistani who got the Nobel. Bihari Muslims who went to East Bengal ( Then part of Pakistan) are still in the limbo. Other non- sindhi, paso , panjabi speaking people who went to Pakistan are catagorized as Muzaheer. So brothers and sisters in Pakistan , wake up and do something to improve your lot. If you fail and creat a non-functional country, there is something for sure in Behast for you but please leave the Baluchs, and let them control their fate. Khuda Hafez.
PureLand has made great progress so far after initial hiccups but it still has miles to go, to get where it is headed. Things are speeding up though.
@ Kalu Singha
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See, that your rudenesse doe not you disgrace:
Binde your fillets faste,
And gird in your waste,
For more finesse with a tawdrie lace.
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Baluchistan is not a separate entity. You cannot discuss about it separately. Talk about Indian Occupied kashmir, worry about Khalistaan!!
BTW Mirjai’s are cent per cent enemies of Muslims and Pakistan. They are the worst kind of mullahs who want to screw up all religions including Christianity and Hinduism. And ofcourse, they will overwhelmingly clutch the Sikhs by their balls!
Dear everybody,
The following clips are interesting and very much relevant to the topic:
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j2Pi2VLy8s&feature=youtu.be
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBm_wXhZfNk&feature=relmfu
Regards
this thread has become totally redundant and needs to be closed but since YLH happens to be at the helm of affairs of this forum and seems to have chootiafied RR etc he will not shut this thread of his.
What a shame for YLH to beg more comments to boost up the comment count on his thread which has become super saturated and there is nothing more to be written on it except that the Mirjai’s are certified Murteds, Munafiqs and idiots who have been taught by their ring leaders to indulge in frivolous debate and create more enemies for them.
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May Allah guide them to the right path and drag them either to Qadian or hell!
Kashif mian,
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If Pakistan was a blunder, it was Nehru’s.
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But by the same token, if Pakistan was a success, the credit wud have to be given to Nehru, no?
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Regards
Absolutely not. If Pakistan turns out to be a success the credit will go to Jinnah. It follows from simple logic, blunder: Nehru, success: Jinnah. Indians are only good at distorting history and are very poor in logic.
Pakistan cannot succeed without serving its true purpose, To do so , its must invite the Muslamans living in india to safely migrate to Jinnah’s dream land . Without giving its due to those “Indian Muslims” who followed Quaid , it is a failure and remain so. Watching Kaffirs on the path of progress and celebrating life , these poor fellows , as we see here , are fast loosing their remaining little Kaffir rubbed thinking. They too also love death more than life like great Pakistani Islamic people.
These Jinnah vs Gandhi debates are happening because pakistan has failed and pakistanis are not comfortable under their skin and they are trying blame it on all. If they are success full few years or decade down the line all credit gose to jinnah’s vision & Islam!!!
”Dear Readers! It is clear that the founder of Ahmadiyya Movement had laid claims contradictory to Quran and Hadith. The Islamic scholars of Makkah, Madina, Cairo and the entire Muslim world declared as apostate, disbelievers, and out of the fold of Islam, him and his followers. He died 100 years ago, but his followers continue to deceive people in the name of Islam. Ignorance from Islamic teachings, and, ignorance from Mirza Ghulam and his teachings is the basic fault, which is exploited by the missionaries of Ahmadiyya. It is the duty of every Muslim to be on their guard against such deception. No Muslim should be allowed to get trapped out of ignorance. Knowingly if someone joins them, then of course there is no compulsion in religion.
May Allah protect Muslims from the fraudulent doctrine of these Deviant Movements Like Qadiyaniyat and Mehdiviyat movement in the name of Islam. O Allah! Bring ignorant Muslims who have been trapped by them, back to the fold of Islam, let them see what is right and what is wrong and then give them the hidayah to follow the right path. Ameen.”
http://www.allaahuakbar.net/mehdavis/who_is_true_imam_mahdi.htm