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Pak Tea House » Uncategorized » Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?

Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?

By Yasser Latif Hamdani

(Written exclusively for PakTeaHouse. Please give credit when crossposting)

The poison of ignorance and extremism that Bhutto and General Zia jointly fathered during their dictatorial regimes has fully indoctrinated even those who otherwise describe themselves as educated.

This week the Large Hadron Collider at the CERN inched closer to the discovery of Higgs Boson or the God Particle as it were. In this extraordinary story of human achievement,  Dr. Abdus Salam is a key player who put Pakistan on the map of theoretical physics. In his homeland though, a group of self-styled champions of Islam have started a posthumous campaign of scurrilous slander claiming that Dr. Salam was giving out nuclear secrets. Forget that even a confirmed bigot like General Zia  held a ceremony in our only nobel prize winner’s honour or that no one ever accused Dr. Salam of any such thing; in Pakistan to be a hero you have to actually transfer technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea.

Now consider the case of 11 year old Sitara Akbar. Every Pakistani and his mother in law are citing her as a crowning national achievement, blissfully oblivious of the fact that she is an Ahmadi. To them her religion is suddenly unimportant or irrelevant or is it? How many Sitara Akbars have been expelled from our schools for being Ahmadi? How many productive citizens of this republic have been killed and maimed for believing differently?

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s National Assembly imagined itself the Islamic equivalent of the Council of Nicea. Just as that ancient bastion of Christian orthodoxy excommunicated unitarian Christians for not believing in the trinity of the father, son and the holy ghost, the National Assembly saw it fit to – primarily at the instigation of the Prime Minister and his law minister- declare an entire sect non-Muslim. Just like the post hoc elevation of the principle of trinity at Nicea, Pakistan’s National Assembly located Islam in the principle of the finality of Prophethood.

This act of our sovereign legislature stood in sharp contrast to the view of this nation’s founding father. On 5 May, 1944, in response to demands of the orthodox vis a vis Ahmadis, Jinnah made it absolutely clear that anyone who professes to be a Muslim is a Muslim and welcome in the Muslim League and that those who were raising the issue were trying to divide the Muslims. Here I am forced to say that I am inclined to accept Jinnah’s view and reject the collective wisdom of our sovereign legislature. There are several reasons which may be cited in this regard:

  1. First and foremost Pakistan is bound by the United Nations’ charter. Therefore Pakistan is bound to ensure freedom of religion for all its citizens and freedom of religion means freedom of religion according to the definition of the subject of the said freedom.
  2. Identity is subjective not objective. The state of Pakistan or any other state cannot tell an Ahmadi that he is not a Muslim because it is intrinsic to the faith of an Ahmadi.  This is an inviolable, inalienable right as part of right to life which every state in the world is bound to protect. If Ahmadis say they are Muslims they ought to be accepted as such.
  3. Pakistan is a signatory to the ICCPR and without reservations since June 2011. Therefore every piece of legislation that discriminates against Ahmadis or forces a label upon them is ultra vires the ICCPR.
  4. The Islamic argument: According to the Holy Prophet (PBUH) anyone who utters the Kalima Shahadah is a Muslim. None of the Kalimas, including the Primary Kalima Shahadah contains any reference to the principle of the finality of Prophethood as understood by the Muslim majority today.
  5. Finally because by conduct and promise, Pakistani state is estopped from claiming otherwise. In 1947, Pakistan laid claim to Qadian as a Muslim holy place, a counter-blast to Sikh claims on Nankana Sahib and Hassan Abdal.  Similarly in 1946 elections which is the basic referendum on the question of Pakistan, Ahmadi votes were instrumental in getting Muslims Pakistan. These are undeniable facts of history.


Therefore- fully aware of the stigma attached to this statement- I concur with Quaid-e-Azam Mahomed Ali Jinnah, thefounding father of Pakistan that Ahmadis are Muslims, if they say they are Muslims and no one, not even the sovereign legislature, has the right to say otherwise.


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3,228 Responses to "Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?"

  1. Bin Ismail Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    It seems you’re having serious and unending problems with comprehending the otherwise simple fact, that “Right” and “Wrong”, with respect to “Religious Belief” can not be determined by “a vote of majority” caste by mortals. The principle of the “vote of majority” begins and ends with worldly, temporal, mundane and material issues. Similarly, determining the real “Religious Identity” of someone or a group of citizens, can not be done by the majority, be it the Parliament, Shura or anything else. For instance, if the Parliament of a certain country decides, by a majority vote that Catholics are not Christians, such a decision would be fallacious. Another example: if the Parlaiment of Pakistan decided, however remotely possible this may actually be, and of course hypothetically speaking, that Sunnis were “not Muslims for the purposes of constitution and law”, that would not render the Sunni Muslims of Pakistan “non-Muslims”. It is for the Sunni Muslim citizen to choose and declare his own “religious identity”, not the Parliament. You might also wish to recall that all holy and truly pious men of God were declared “infidels” and “religiously wrong” in their own respective times, by the “majorty” of their respective people. The most classic example would perhaps, be of Muhammad the Messenger of God. He was termed an “infidel”, “misled”, “ill-faithed”, “rebellious against the religion of the forefathers”, “bewitched”, “insane”, “deluded” and what not. All these titles were conferred upon him, not by a minority, but by the “majority of the people’s representatives”. Now, let me take you into the past. Let’s go about two milleniums back in time. Jesus was persecuted and sentenced to death for the “religious identity” he claimed for himself – not by a minority – but by the majority of the people’s representatives. In fact, in Jesus’ case, the majority of the peoples representatives, the political authorities and the clergy, all were unanimous on Jesus’ guilt. Therefore, to put it plainly, in matters relating to determining someone’s religious identity and faith, it is not the job of “the majority” to decide. These are not political matters. These are spiritual matters. Indeed, if there does happen to be a single authority with the right and competence to decide on such matters, it is God.

  2. Dark Knight Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah said :
    “…Religion should not be allowed to come into Politics…Religion is merely a matter between man and God…”.
    [Address to the Central Legislative Assembly, 7 February 1935]

  3. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    akb, i have closed the case , your whinig and whimpering is natural, but case the is closed (HARVEY Specter style) you are proven guilty for “perjury”. the judiciary of pakistan may be blind , but ALLAH’s supreme court is not, HE is seeing everything.and i think what he has seen is enough to declare verdict.and you a.k.b lunatic should have thought that before committing all the crimes you have committed is the time to move forward for you and discover the truth for clearing yourself off this have said enough and nothing u say has been substantive enough to support your case.

  4. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:


  5. a,k.b Pakistan Opera Windows says:




  6. Syed United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ akb


    The long and short of this debate is as followings :

    1. Ahmadi Muslims are a community among Muslims, who believe that the prophecy issued by the Holy Prophet Muhammad, regarding the Promised Messiah and Mahdi, has by God’s will, been fulfilled, in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian.

    2. It is not for any Parliament or State or any body of clerics to decide who is or is not a Muslim. Such judgements will be made by God on the Day of Judgement and God alone is the competent authority for passing such judgements.

    3. Ahmadi Muslims are loyal, law-abiding peace-loving citizens of whichever country they may happen to live in.

  7. sta Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    Nonsense. The is no inconsistency in Jinnah’s words or actions. Jinnah clearly spoke of a country in which State and Religion would be kept separate. If there’s any inconsistency, it’s in your confused mind.

  8. MilesToGo United States Opera Windows says:

    jinnah is the third greatest muslim after bin quasim and bin laden.

  9. Kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Thanks for that great link, AKB! I have to look into that concept of self-aware fields. Is that a metaphor? Is that reality? Is it true? To what level of certainty? :)

    Interesting stuff. Thanks again.

  10. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    i am sensing victory of faith here! to all who have the urge to follow the path of “righteous” are strongly encouraged to bring forward, queries that are confusing them!!!
    may ALLAH lead us all on “sirat e mustaqim” (ameen)

  11. mahee United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    a very interesting, peice of info i came across a courtesy of my senior.
    Related to concept of khatam e nabuwat described in Maulana Muhammad Qasim Nanotvi’s book tehzir un naas. Maulana sahib was an Islamic Scholar and one of the main people responsible for establishing the Deobandi movement.
    maulana writes in his book and i quote with my heretic mirjai mind :
    //”even if a thousand true prophets succeed Holy Prophet (s.a.w) even then his status of being khatim un nabieen will not be changed”"//
    I dont know but what, maulana sahab has said in this small sentence, has conveyed what we ahmadis are screaming on loudest of our pitches for more than a century now. and maulana himself knowing what he is writing does he not get it, or does he decline it on purpose.Because if the all pirs and gaddi nasheen maulvis, start beliving in Massih e mauood , mujadid, imam mehdi Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadian (a.s) their piri fakiri will have to stop.Their followers would have to stop prostrating in front of them, and they will have to start rethinking about unity of ALLAH, AND Muhammed (s.a.w)) as Khtimunabieen ,the seal of prophet, rehmatu lil alamin, mercy for all.Because thats what Promissed messiah was sent for, to bring revival of islam.
    The title khatimunabieen, is for Muhammed (s.a.w) only, it means he is the seal of one before or after him can ever be gifted prophethood like him.there is a uniqueness in his prophethood,there is finality in his book , of quran,and his existence for all, is as what GOD says one reason the universe was made, to have Hazrat
    Muhammed(s.a.w) in if for him the entire universe was made , then cant some one who loved him more than himself, be gifted this gift of being Muhammed’s subservient prophet. It’s the glory of Muhammed’s (s.a.w) prophet.Its the ultimate finality in Hazrat Muhammed’s(s.a.w) prophethood that after him no prophet can bring a new shariah or book, but only in his subservience, reviving his teachings, glorifying his name again, reliving the spirit of the true teachings and religion of Hazrat Muhammed(s.a.w).thats the kind of position we ahmadis keep Muhammed(s.a.w) on.
    it,s like if all the prophets sent by allah stand side by side each other, there is only one prophet who has a subservient prophet standing behind him, and that unique Prophet is Hazrat Muhammed (s.a.w), sadiq or ameen.His glory is not in just being the last, his glory is in being the seal, the ring, the greatest, and the unique, and his glory is in when someone get so deeply in love with him then he can be gifted with being his subservient prophet .
    Thats the kind of love ALLAH has for Hazrat Muhammed(s.a.w), and thats how he showered his love on Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed(S.A.W), for being the a true follower of Hazrat Muhammed (s.a.w).JUST LIKE HIS NAME, MIRZA GHULAM AHMED(A.S), WAS A TRUE SUBSERVIENT OF HAZRAT AHMED(S.A.W).

  12. truth power United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    The Prophet Muhammad SA himself said that one who does not accept the mujadid (reformer) of the age dies the death of ‘jahiliya’ (ignorance). So, is the Prophet Muhammad SA less than moderate as well? What do you think will happen if one does not accept the Imam Mahdi and Promised Messiah? Just food for thought.

  13. ahmadi Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    MubaraK, to all my brotheres and sisters, finally you have defeated a very nasty and crazy enemy of ahmadis and real islam..
    many many mubaraks! :) :)

  14. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ All Mirjai heretics
    you are best dealt on
    you can go there and scream….like hyana’s do people can send you to hell!!

    Mirjai’s are good word players…stuck around semantics and rhetoric and falsehood. They do need a more strict Blasphemy law to appease them.
    Empty vessels these Mirjai deviates are …..

    I love Hindus and Christians and Sikhs to name a few…not only because they differ in religion with me but because they have a belief which is genuine , original and true and not an imitation and plagiarization of Islam or fouling of other religions which the Mirjai’s adopteed to deceive mankind. Mirjai’s are worse than the Wahabis or the Nazi’s , they are 110 percent Mullah’s who want to rule the world , to exterminate followers of all great religions of the world!!

    Hell to them!

  15. MilesToGo United States Safari Mac OS says:

    mirzai are true followers of Islam. Islam creates prophets and prophets create Islam – the cycle must continue.

  16. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ ahmadi

    ahmadi Mubarak mubarak ! I have fathered a son!!
    AKB: {amazed} How come? YOu are here in London for the last 4 years!
    ahmadi Why, it doesn’t matter. My brothers are not sissies!!


  17. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ ahmadi

    ahmadi Mubarak!! mubarak ! I have fathered a son!!
    AKB: {amazed} How come? YOu are here in London for the last 4 years!
    ahmadi Why, it doesn’t matter. My brothers back home are not sissies!!

  18. ahmadi Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    KHAIR MUBARAK to you as well akb sir,

    henceforth no matter what you say from now on , you may lie as much as you want, you may use immoral language for me and my other brothers, you may even fabricate false statements relating to any of my deeply respected founders and elders, my faith tells me to give you respect and love.just like all of my other brothers are trying their best to do with you.
    we hope and we pray for your forgiveness and mercy, as i care for you brother, i sincerely do as a muslim , as a human and specially as an ahmadi.
    as for my faith i have seen enough of your side to decide whose on right and whose on the wrong side.thanks alot for strenghthening my faith.none of my ahmadi brothers have ever been immoral, or mis quoted someone, they have been honest and truthful.These are decisive factors in faith.
    may GOD BLESS you, and lead you to right path.

  19. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    Rex minor, as you asked and i quote:
    /////*****And pray tell us what does this great Maulana idividual means with his statement about the hypothesis of ‘IF’ and “thousand true prophets”? Did he write these sentences in arabic language? I realise that you guys are highly romantic and extremely emotional indivduals but what does all this brings for you as an individual, a group or for the Ummah.
    I am a musalman(not a Mohammadan), believe in the God of Ibrahim and accept Mohammad(pbuh) as the last prophet of God who brought for the humanity the religion of Islam.END. I do not belong to any religious group nor recognise any mortal religious authority but am prepared to support school of thoughts which unite and not divide the Ummah./////****

    i respect your questions and i find them very intriguing for my ownself as well, yet i have a few honest answers that i would like to present on this page, because my initial post was meant for this specific place as well.

    1. you tell me that you are a musalman and believer of holy prophet as the last prophet, and you believe in islam.MashAllah God bless you, im really happy to hear that.because believe it or not, my beliefs are exactly the same as yours just one problem i believe you guys think we have is about holy prophet(s.a.w)’s finality. we believe in him as being the last in the way he described himself to be the last.As the only time he used the word last to describe himself , was in this following hadees “Ana aakhir ul anbiyaa wa masjidee haza akhir ul masaajid” [Bukhari].
    ‘ana’ I or me ”aakhir ul anbiyn” Last of the Prophets, ‘wa’ and ‘haza’ means this ‘akhirul masaajid” which means ”the last of mosques.
    hence as a true follower of the HOLY PROPHET (S.A.W) of islam it,s my obligation to know how and why he said that. and divine wisdom of promissed messiah and my own tiny bit of wisdom tells me that he said this to tell that just like there is a grandeur and uniqueness in masjid e nabawi that differentiates it from all other mosques therefore there is a uniqueness , finality and glory in Holy Prophets prophethood that cannot be overtaken by any prophet before him or after him.He is the seal and now any one that God sends as a messenger for revival will come under his subservience, with the same teachings Holy Prophet brought and reitrate the same principles of islam , the foundations of which have been laid by Holy Prophet(s.a.w) already and only him. in short who ever comes will be the best example of a true follower of Muhammed (s.a.w).
    My holy founder Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (a.s) proved himself worthy by being a true ummati of Muhammed(s.a.w), you can go to any place and check that for yourself why Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani (a.s), was chosed by GOD, it will be in history what a real restorer and champion of islam he was in subcontinent.For his extravagant and exceptional services to islam and Prophet Muhammed (a.s) prophethood was gifted to him, alongwith being a divine saint, imam mehdi and promissed messiah.his teachings are in direct relation with Muhammed (s.a.w) and islam.he has in no way changed any words of quran or sunnah ,but he has given us some divine knowledge about the truth of other religions, like hinduism, sikhism,zorostrianism, he has negated the flaws that have come in many faithful followers of islam by negating the concept piri muridi which is widely prevalent now, praying on graves of dead an act that has deeply immersed itself in a normal muslim”s faith, etc etc.He has been able to do all that with divine help of God , who was directly in contact with him.You read his words and judge for yourself , whether its a normal person or a man with knowledge speaking.

    2. you told me your faith and beliefs and what ever you have with God, is between you and him.

    3.As a true human , it is of binding importance on me to strive for the truth, and share my enlightened opinions with my fellows human beings so as to help them in their struggle for finding truth as well.Therefore i share my knowledge as much as i can , i have no doubts in my mind as to what im on, there is no point of being emotional here in quoting an objective statement.
    The person ,im reffering to above is Maulana Muhammad Qasim Nanotvi, he is a renowed religious scholar, founder of darululoom, deobandi sect.He is one of the founding establisher of deoband school of thought and clearly “NOT AN AHMADI”.
    I qoute him , as true to his word as i can be.i donot take the words of any religious scholar no matter of what faith he is, as a joke or romantic poetry.Religious scholars are men of sound mind and what they write is i believe to be read with respect. What maulana sahab said about thousand prophets are his words not mine, im only trying to bridge the differences here by saying thats what ahmadis believe too.It pretty clear what he wrote and i dont think it need any of my emotional debate or explaination , i just find it a very good way of mending our ways and finding the real truth.
    Now, whatever way you want to take maulana sahab”s words is your own will, and you are completely entitled to your opinion, i respect that.but it supports my argument in alot of ways so im entitled to use it.I dont find anything romantic about this logical way of reasoning .

  20. truth power Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    dear rex minor,
    sir in order to make things even better i will quote Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (a.s)
    promissed messiah says
    “”O ye learned people of Islam!””
    O ye learned people among the Muslims! Do not be hasty in rejecting me as false. There are many profound secrets which man cannot comprehend in a hurry, all at once. You should not be ready to reject a thing the moment you hear it, for this is not the way of the righteous. Had there been no errors among you, and if you had not interpreted certain Ahadith in a manner contrary to their real sense, then the advent of the Messiah, as a judge and adjudicator among you, would have been a useless thing. The mission you assign to this advent, namely, that he would join force with the Mahdi, to make war on all in order forcibly to convert them to Islam, is a belief which brings disgrace to Islam. Where at all is it written in the Quran that war is permissible for the sake of spreading one’s religion by force? On the contrary we find Allah saying in the Holy Book:
    There is no compulsion in matters connected with religion.
    Then wherefrom would the Messiah, son of Mary, get the right to use force for converting people to Islam? The entire Quran is replete to the effect that there can be no coercion in religion; and it is absolutely clear on the point that when the Holy Prophet took up the sword, he did not do so to spread Islam by this means, but (i) as a due punishment for these who had killed a large number of Muslims, and had driven out many others from their homes. We read in the Holy Book: “Permission has been given to those who fight because they had been oppressed, and Allah indeed has the power to help them (in spite of the odds against them)” 22:39. (ii) Or these wars were defensive, fought against people who were leaving no stone unturned to extirpate Islam and to stop its propagation by force of arms. (iii) Or they were fought to assert legitimate freedoms. Apart from campaigns undertaken for these three aims, the Holy Prophet and his blessed Khalifas fought no war, whatsoever. In fact, before taking up arms in self defence Islam bore oppression with silent fortitude to an extent of which there is no example in the history, of other peoples. Then what kind of a Messiah and Mahdi would these be who would embark on their mission by putting their opponents to the sword right from the start.

  21. truth power Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    promiised messiah said
    “”///Everyone who is purified, is purified through firmness of conviction. It is conviction which gives you the strength to bear hardships, even to the extent of persuading a king to abdicate his royal throne and take to the life of a mendicant. Conviction dissolves all difficulties. Conviction enables a man to see God. All ideas of any atoning sacrifice are false, for every kind of purity comes only from firm conviction. The only thing which delivers a man from sin, and advances him in sincerity and steadfastness, far ahead of the angels themselves, is conviction and conviction alone. All religions which fail to create this firmness of conviction are false. All religions which fail to show God by means beyond any shadow of doubt are false; and all those religions are false which contain nothing more than a handful of tales and fables about what happened in the past///****

    Ahmaddiyyat is to clear all the dissent and wide blank space that have come in the linear continous flow of islam. Ahmmaddiyat is to purge all the turbulence, ahmadi is to be human first, than muslim, than real follower of Holy Prophet (s.a.w), than the a believer of Promissed messiah and brother of followers of all the major religions of the world, all people of the book, may it be sikh, deo bandi or jew.All our people of the divine books, and respect of their religions and books and imperative on an ahmadi.Ahmaddiyyat has brought all religions under one roof and every shadow of doubt that any of us may have related to any religion is clarified by ahmadiyyat.The concept is not so palatable for the “orthodoxia” of all religions, but for moderates and enlightened wise its a breath of fresh air.
    no matter what your doubt with ahmaddiyyat is, you must read ahmadi literature written by the divine founder Mirza Ghulam Ahmed(a.s) , and your doubt will be cleared.the condition for reading is “conviction”.
    After all this and above, now is ahmadiyyat for dividing all or joining is what i leave for you to decide.

  22. m.ahmadi Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    Go to:

    for enlightenment and nourishment of your faith.

  23. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ Ahmedi heretic
    read Jinnah’s speech i have posted earlier above…he warns the minorities ”to prove their sincerity to the county and your fellow countymen in majority THROUGH action and not only words”’….
    Even GAndhi, Nehru, Kabir, Nanak, Tagore, Einstein to name a few could recite the kalima which was certainly not sufficient enough to qualify them to be Muslims. You too are acting against the teachings of Jinnah and rationality by falsely uttering words but acting against them. Thus you are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites and heretics!

  24. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ Mirzai deviates and heretics

    Damn with your frigging promised messiah!!
    Aga Khanis say Aga khan is the one real one…
    Shia’s say they have 12 Imams…hazir imam and one vanished one who is the promised messiah
    Muslims say Hadrat Isa (Jesus) will be the Promised Messiah…

    I am with the last one, okay?? Keep your dummy and imposter messiah with you!!
    visit to know more about the evil of Mirjai pariah’s…..

  25. Maggu India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Truth Power: Thanks very much for bringing the true words to us. Thank you

  26. truth power United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    akb bhai, you have quoted a very good speech of my beloved Quaid Muhammed Ali Jinnah, i love every bit of it. but what im not getting is that why why are you refferring this on ahmadis? Ahmadis were not a minority in Quaid’S time , rather some of the close friends Quaid had were all ahmadis and i dont know why do we have to remind you this again and again that when your favourite jammat of maulvis called majlis e ahrar asked him to declare ahmadis as non muslims, Quaide azam said, “religion is a matter between man and God , and if ahmadis say they are muslims no parliament or constitution can declare them non muslims”
    aray bhai, why do you want to get slapped again and again, because every time you bring non sense in front of us, all we have to restrain ourselves is from laughing.When Quaide azam , was alive ahmadis were not a minority but parsis were, and they have every right on their nation as nation has right on its national, irrespective of what religion they are of, society is made like that.Nation is made up of various societies, living together, accpeting and tolerating, each other as well serving its nation in the best possible means, since you have forgotten what a civillised society of today is like. You must have because pakistan now is a true face of a barbaric society no way a civilised one any more.
    And Akb, now that you have questioned patriotism of an ahmadi by bringing up this speech i will give you some real facts about how patriotic an ahmadi is:
    1. Major General Iftikhar Janjua, a pakistan army general and an ahmadi muslim, who was the only general in pakistan army”s history who fought war from the front unlike all other generals who lead from behind. Major General Iftikhar janjua, who fought against indian army from the frontline , in 1971 war and he fought so bravely and so courageously that not only did he won the war at his end in chamb, Kashmir, he gave his life in the name of Pakistan in this war.and let me tell you as a matter of fact akb, that in 1971 pakistani army was badly loosing against indian at all ends, in mirpur khas sindh area and not to mention the lost east pakistan. Symbolically speaking it was this battle which sustained the morale of the army in West Pakistan and provided much needed credibility to sustain and preserve the army’s image in the wake of the traumatic events of December 1971.
    It was leading from the front for which General Iftikhar is remembered even today by the troops who served in 23 Division during the Battle of Chamb. It was this quality which enabled him to arrive at a realistic appraisal of the actual situation and win so convincingly. and that is why armies on both sides still study General Iftikhar’s war tactics and strategies which he applied in the 23 divisions, in the war of chamb.there is a whole town after his name in that area called Iftikharabad.
    The indian army has praised him on so many places.You must search it for yourself what high values and regards the armies on both sides have for General Iftikhar.he is titled by some as the best general that has ever come in south asia, all for his bravery his steadfastness and most importantly unconditional love for his country Pakistan, he is still remmemmbered.
    furthermore more, Major General Gurcharan Singh Sandhu an indian army general writes in his book the Indian armour history of the Indian Armoured Corps -1941-1971 ,”"”It is ironic that Third World countries study Napoleon and Slim when they have great military commanders like Eftikhar, Akhtar and Abrar. “”"
    another irony for you akb here is that all of the above mentioned generals, who were such outstanding examples of patriotism and passionate defenders of their country Pakistan WERE ALL AHMADIS.
    1.General iftikhar hussain,
    2.General Akhtar hussian,
    3General abdul ali Malik.
    above were all ahmadis, and well-known rather renowed exemplary figures of Pakistan army.the forged history of pakistan has been unable to erase their names and if it would have than ask the enemies!!! they still have records and they learn from them, not to mention keep them in highest regard. you ask me about patriotism:
    1.the first foreign minister of Pakistan, for his representation of Pakistan at the United Nations, and serving as a judge at the International Court of Justice in The Hague, was an ahmadi , Sir Zafarullah Khan.
    2.the first and only noble prize winner for pakistan was an ahmadi.
    3.the youngest female holder of both Pakistani and world records based on her passing of O Level, Sitara Burooj Akbar is an ahmadi.

    Pakistan, is in flesh and blood of every pakistani ahmadi, ahmadis have a major role in the fight for independence for pakistan.there is a speech of Quaideazam, that he gave directily from ahmadi mosque called baitulfazal in london. it was an ahmadi imam, Mr dard, who urged Quaid to struggle and not give up, when Quaideazam had gone back to london after being bitterly dissapointed and dishearted from congress.Dard sahib, arranged various sessions with quaid in 1937, to convince him in to going back to subcontinent and fight for the rights of muslims of subcontinent,and he succeeded when Quaide azam announced in a press conference his “re-entering” into politics right from the hallway in Baitul fazal mosque ,london.Which in new Pakistan, is a qadiani worship place but at that time was muslim community mosque, and Quaide offered prayers there, so much for pakistani parliament and its certifified muslim mosques to bear. at that time ironically one of the most bitter enemies of idea of pakistan was majlis e ahrar, which after independence changed its name to “khatamenabowat”, and proclaims itself now to be more pakistani than any of us heretics who died fighting for it..

  27. truth power Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    and yes as to whatever shia says its their faith, a matter between them and God, me and you are no one to declare them non muslims, whatever aga khanis say is between them and god not for you to decide.
    you are no one to judge any one faith, you do not have the power.
    Ahmadis are true followers of Holy Prophet (s.a.w), because in his hadees he commanded his ummat to accept his imam mahdi , and we are ctually the one who are following it.Its in ibn e majah, Holy Prophet said, when you discover mahdi, swear allegiance to him, even if you have to crawl towards him,He is ALLAH’S khalifa, the Mahdi”".
    And when you ask when did we discover mehdi ? well we discovered him , right after the hadees in whinch grand prophecy of arrival of mahdi and promissed messiah was made by Muhammed(s.a.w) , fullfilled itself word by word event by event right and after Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (a.s) declared that it even though you know what the prophecy of prophet (saw) is about coming of imam mahdi i will write it again and again until your ears start hearing and mind start accepting it”" in dar ul qutni hazrat Imam Baqir grandson of Hazrat Imam Hussain (a.s) has narrated holy prophet as saying “”For Our Mahdi there are two Signs which have never appeared before since the creation of the heavens and the earth, namely, the moon will be eclipsed on the first night in Ramazan (i.e. on the first of the nights on which a lunar eclipse can occur) and the sun will be eclipsed on the middle day (i.e.; on the middle one of the days on which a solar eclipse can occur), and these Signs have not appeared since God created the heavens and the earth.”
    Now, if you say that this hadees is from unauthentic source, let me clear this to you that this hadees was a hadees that had been in the Prophet”s faily household, it was being trasferred to generation as an authentic prophecy for coming of Mahdi, and this Hadees is authetic as well because because its in direct compliance with the teachings of Quran , as its written in surat Qiyamah”"
    When the eye is dazzled, and the moon is eclipsed, and the sun and the moon are brought together (i.e. the Sun will also eclipse), on that day man will say, ‘Whither to flee?’ (Surah Al-Qiyamah, 75:8-11),
    hence the words are similar as Quran, the hadees is no doubt completely authetic.
    its authentic also because other religious books have similar words for the coming of promissed messiahi”The Holy Bible Says :

    Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken ; And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven. (Matthew Ch. 24 Verse 29 & 30.)
    hence in no way is this hadees unauthentic, i have proved it with solid argument and quoted solid evidence.
    And During 1894 A.D, in the month of Ramadhan the Lunar and Solar Eclipses occurred on Wednesday the 21st March, and Friday the 6th April respectively , in 1894 in the eastern hemisphere and in 1895 similar events occurred in western hemisphere.

    if you ask me now why i follow Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed(a.s), it is because he claimed it”s happening and his claims were fullfilled by God as it is.

  28. Dark Knight Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @AKB (December 10, 2012 at 3:13 am)
    //…read Jinnah’s speech i have posted earlier above…he warns the minorities ”to prove their sincerity to the county and your fellow countymen in majority THROUGH action and not only words”…//


    You ought to think before you speak – at least occasionally. The man who convinced Jinnah to return to India and serve as the sole spokesman of both the Indian Muslims and the Muslim-majority states of India, was an Ahmadi. The man who represented Pakistan before the Radcliffe Commission, was an Ahmadi. The man who was picked by Jinnah as Pakistan’s first Foriegn Minister, was an Ahmadi. The only Pakistani to have risen to occupy the world’s highest judicial and diplomatic positions, was an Ahmadi. The only Pakistani to have won a Nobel Prize for Pakistan, was an Ahmadi. The only general of the Pakistan Army to have died in combat, fighting to defend his country, was an Ahmadi.

  29. sta Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @Dark Knight

    //…AKB..You ought to think before you speak…//


    How can he think without brain tissue ?

  30. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    akb, wooww, there is actually no end to your gibberish talk, where the hell has your mind gone grazing?you actually have no sense of self respect left in you, to hide one lie you,ve already made up thousands,when will this madness end?? you once quoted something from i dont know where but for you i say”zaeeful ul aqeedah logon wali baatain mat karo”" im sure what you were refferring to here was yourself!
    enough akb enough, stop contradicting yourself, you are showing more weakness in your faith than ever before, it’s really a waste of time talking to such a weak immoral non sensical person! no point at must realise you are headed in a very wrong direction..go and get some real knowledge enough of cheap literature and third class century old arguments!!!

  31. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ ylh


  32. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    To All Mirjai adjudged heretics…
    a warning to them by the Christians..

    ”Half Truthers—Masters of Deception

    The Temptation and Fall of Mankind: “Now the serpent [disguised as Satan, the devil] was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, ‘Has God indeed said, “You shall not eat of every tree of the garden?”‘ And the woman said to the serpent, ‘We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, “You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.”‘ Then the serpent said to the woman, ‘You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.’”1

    When God created man and woman— Adam and Eve—he placed them in the Garden of Eden—which, at the time, was a perfect world—and not wanting mankind to be puppets on a string, God gave them a free will so they could freely choose to follow and obey him and be greatly blessed, or go their own way and pay the natural consequences. Along came Satan who, wanting to take revenge against God because in his attempt to dethrone God when he was one of the most beautiful angels in Heaven, was cast out of Heaven, came to Eve to tempt her to turn from God and, in so doing, destroy the apex of God’s creation.

    To tempt Adam and Eve, Satan told Eve a part truth. Adam and Eve both knew that God had told them that if they ate of the forbidden fruit, they would surely die; that is, they would die spiritually and be eternally separated from God. So Satan said to Eve, “You will not die but be like God knowing both good and evil.” This was partly true in that she would know both good and evil, but what Satan didn’t tell Eve was that if she ate of the forbidden fruit, she would not only know good and evil but would be forever confirmed in a fallen state of evil.

    Tragically, Adam and Eve bought into Satan’s lie, ate of the forbidden fruit and fell into sin. In so doing, they introduced sin and evil into the entire human race.

    Unfortunately, part-truths can be the most deceptive form of lies there are. For instance, every false cult claiming to be a bearer of God’s Truth always has an element of truth in their teaching, as this is what makes them believable to those who are not aware of what God teaches in his Word, the Bible. The tragedy in this life is that if and when we turn from God and his ways to go our own way, we remove ourselves from God’s blessings and bring the natural consequences of our sin and rebellion upon ourselves. This is why it is imperative that each of us reads and studies God’s Word so we know exactly the ways of God and his truth, so that we will not be deceived by Satan and his evil demons, and ultimately be destroyed.”

  33. Bin Ismail Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    Yasser Latif Hamdani:
    Congratulations. Your remarkably daring article has succeeded in attracting 3000 comments. I believe, that should be a record.
    Best Regards
    Bin Ismail

  34. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ Bin ismail
    Your as well as YLH’s thanks should be due to me as it is I who
    had been forces to give a good flogging to the stale and hackneyed litany by the Mirjai deviates in this thread…


  35. Maggu India Google Chrome  GT-N7100 Build/JRO03C) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.166 Mobile Safari/535.19 says:

    Waah.. ghazi waah. Ye tumko kyaa dua dengey. Tumko toh jannah say allah, nabi kareem sab he dua day rahe hain. Tum na hotey toh unki asmat lut gayi hoti in mirzai logon kay hathon. Tum to islam kay sipahi ho, tumharey keyboard ki shamsheer say islam khatron say bach gaya hai.

  36. sta Pakistan Safari iPad says:

    Allah aap kay haal par rehm farmai.
    //AKB… tumharey keyboard ki shamsheer say…//
    AKB kay keyboard mein aik hee kharabi hai aur wo ye ke Caps Lock ki key atak jati hai. Baqi tamam kharabian AKB kay dimagh mein hain.

  37. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    no body is paying attention TO YOU , i can feel how sad its making you as you are trying to gain importance for yourself by yourself arent you?? but yes i thank you along with ylh,
    ylh for being so daring,
    and you for being so pathetic in the fight against this mirjai cult of mine, youve shown to be weak in every sense a real muslim should not be , thanks for writing so much crap to prove yourself the greatest liar on pak tea house.
    i have so much evidence to prove it but what i just wanna say , islam kay sipahi sahib is that, “”in islam the mother of all sins is lying”" and your keyboard aka sword has been the greatest tool in lying on the face, wah what a mighty fighter of islam youve been , so much liar’s poison there is on your sword, wah wah sir, youre the hero of this page , not us you sir are epic!!!!
    history will have your name in it, akb a.k.a man of god WHO took help of lies to support his turbulent flight, this man of god fabricated false statements and misquoted them to sustain his sinking boat of fight for his faith, this man of god is an utter dissapointment in the name of mankind, this man of god has no sense of right and wrong he believes in dirty language as the best tool for religious fight.and when he has no answers, when he is completely blank he starts telling bed time stories of adam and eve.
    all i can say is that, you must see your arguments again and judge for yourself, what a bad name you have brought to your faith, how badly you damaged it, ironically the name of your faith is same as mine, i fight for islam too so, i feel extreme heart ranching pain when i see illiterate immoral lying cheaters like you fighting for the purest, pristine,heavenly and most divine ,God”S chosen religion of “ISLAM”.
    p.s now please sop embarrassing yourself as you bring embarrassment to islam, im speaking from my a cult”s secret society meeting right now how surprising is my agenda right…..after that i will go to my cult”S worship place offer four rakats of farz namaz in the secret worshipping place while you keep writing shit and cuss word from your parliament certified mosques !! and now my cultish practice of saying **WELL DONE**
    Khuda Hafiz/ ASSALMUALIKUM.

  38. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:





  39. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:





  40. Maggu India Google Chrome  GT-N7100 Build/JRO03C) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.166 Mobile Safari/535.19 says:

    AKB, aap koi jinnat kay saath khelney waley peer fakir jaadugar hain jo typing dekh kar sab kuchh samajh jaatey hain? M’ash allah aap toh apney bhai mirzaai logon say bhee aagey hain!
    Kaun see tanzeem yaa lashkar say bandook chalatey hain?

  41. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ muggi chor ye thuggi

    Mein mein hoon…..mein lashkar e Islam ka adna sa sipahi hoon!!

  42. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ mahee

    You are again playing with words….not fair. Talk sense like a grown up and not like a biased Mirzai Mullah…

    Khatm means end, close, shut, final, khalaas! If you beg to differ quote the meaning from some authentic dictionary source and just stop playing with words to falsely justify or establish your whims.

    If one suffers
    khatm ul wald
    khatm ul safar
    khatmul maal
    khatmul nasl
    khatmul dolat
    khatmul aulad
    khatmul dunya
    khatmul harab
    khatmul zojiyat

    All this means Khalaaas in the context of one who suffers Khatm or finality. As Prophet Muhammad is Khaatimul nabiyain it means he is the Last and Final prophet of all prophets. This is the reason that Muslims are told to believe in ALL past prophets. Nowhere muslims are told to believe in Future frofets,,,,,
    Enuf of your foolishness….believe in mirja ghulla but for heavens sake don’t say you are Muslims nor condemn adherents of Islam , Christianity, and Hinduism. Those are pure established religions …..Mirjai’s bear No comparison to them and must stop imitating them or their practices.

  43. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    khatmul bewafaqufiyat, you have crossed every limit of stupidity, you are the best of the best stupids a man can ever come across, any stupid after you will be your disciple as your stupidness has embraced all sides all angles all dimensions of stupidity, any real stupid after you will be your subordinate ,he is really stupid yet your subservient, he is purely stupid yet your follower,he is highly stupid yet your lesser one.

    ****cheaters and liars and falsifiers will burn in hell fire on the day of judgement till then in this world their punishment is a bad mouth, twisted brain and no respect, zero self respect****

  44. Maggu India Google Chrome  GT-N7100 Build/JRO03C) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.166 Mobile Safari/535.19 says:

    MAHEE, if you are in pakistan, beware of the ak47 worshipping AKB and his bros

  45. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Mahee et al
    you said ”akb bhai, you have quoted a very good speech of my beloved Quaid Muhammed Ali Jinnah, i love every bit of it. but what im not getting is that why why are you refferring this on ahmadis? Ahmadis were not a minority in Quaid’S time” ——

    jinnah hath said many things….tipsy turvy which have caused controversy and confusion to the minorities. You were long caught cheating and Jinnah might have uttered those words regarding the mirjai’s ….why don’t you quote his speech as I doubt your words?? Allama Iqbal’s remarks about Mirjai’s are on record. If you have to go by Jinnah’s word then why not go for Iqbal’s word?? After all Iqbal too was a learned man and is hailed as the Poet of the East. Wine was also Halal in Jinnah’s day but it is haram now for Muslims in Pakistan (though you can have it as a Mirjai_)…so are the heretic Mirjai’s!!

  46. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Maggu
    I am a very loving and caring person…..let mahee meet me I will serve him with a peg of Royal Salute!! You too are invited;)

  47. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ mahee
    You said Jinnah was secular yet you claim that Jinnah said religion was a matter between man and god. Okay, this contradicts the view of Muslims…but you can go by those words…but manmade Law is promulgated to overseer many things and acts including religious tuttle…
    Prostitution is also personal act of a person against Islam ….thus being a matter of personal belief that haraam is halaal but Quran clearly warns not to state haram as halaal and vice versa. You dirty belief needs reformation and only stricter blasphemy laws are going to keep your insane heads straight. Lanat on Mirja Ghulla of Qadian ……the slave of his British masters and his handful of stray dogs!

  48. Syed United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Dear epitome of imbecility,
    May God have mercy on your hibernating brain, Amen. You need help. And guess who’s volunteered to help you. An Ahmadi. You seem to be having trouble in distinguishing between two terms – “khaatam” as in “khaatam un Nabiyyeen” and “khatam” as in “khatam shud”. The former is an Arabic word. Arabic, let me inform you, is the language that is spoken in most of the Middle-Eastern countries. Arabic also happens to be the language in which the Holy Quran was revealed. The Quran, and forgive me for disappointing you, was for some reason not revealed in Punjabi, Urdu or even Persian. In Arabic, the word “khaatam” either refers to a Ring or to a Seal of Certification. Hence, in Arabic, “Khaatam un Nabiyyeen” would either mean “Ring of the Prophets” or “Seal of Certification of the Prophets”.
    “Lakum deenukum wa leeya deen” – for you your religion and for me mine – and mine is “Islam”

  49. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ syed the nulius filius

    Khatam means khatam, ie khalaas!!

    tera khatima ho gaya k tera janaza uth chuka, tera end ho chuka, to finish ho chuka, tu khalaas ho gaya!!
    pagal kee aulat fuzul luntaraniyaan mat kar…..taweelat gharne se tujh aisa shaitan insaan nahi ban sakta, na hee jhoot sach mein badal sakta he. Apne aap ko dhoka mat do…..alfaaz ki ghuman ghairee me na khud ko phansaao na auroan ko ,,,log phuddu nahi ke tum murtadon zindiqoan ke jaal me phans jayen!!
    blasphemy law tumhare leeay hee tu bana he…beta fans gaya na tu teri khaal kheenchi jaye gee….us din se dar aur apnay shareef bhai bandoan aur Mirja Ghulla aaf Qadian ko zaleel tar na kar kionke woh tu perhle he raanda e dargahe Ilahi he…aur dunya o akhirat mein rezeel tareeonoan me shumar hoga!

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