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Pak Tea House » Uncategorized » Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?

Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?

By Yasser Latif Hamdani

(Written exclusively for PakTeaHouse. Please give credit when crossposting)

The poison of ignorance and extremism that Bhutto and General Zia jointly fathered during their dictatorial regimes has fully indoctrinated even those who otherwise describe themselves as educated.

This week the Large Hadron Collider at the CERN inched closer to the discovery of Higgs Boson or the God Particle as it were. In this extraordinary story of human achievement,  Dr. Abdus Salam is a key player who put Pakistan on the map of theoretical physics. In his homeland though, a group of self-styled champions of Islam have started a posthumous campaign of scurrilous slander claiming that Dr. Salam was giving out nuclear secrets. Forget that even a confirmed bigot like General Zia  held a ceremony in our only nobel prize winner’s honour or that no one ever accused Dr. Salam of any such thing; in Pakistan to be a hero you have to actually transfer technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea.

Now consider the case of 11 year old Sitara Akbar. Every Pakistani and his mother in law are citing her as a crowning national achievement, blissfully oblivious of the fact that she is an Ahmadi. To them her religion is suddenly unimportant or irrelevant or is it? How many Sitara Akbars have been expelled from our schools for being Ahmadi? How many productive citizens of this republic have been killed and maimed for believing differently?

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s National Assembly imagined itself the Islamic equivalent of the Council of Nicea. Just as that ancient bastion of Christian orthodoxy excommunicated unitarian Christians for not believing in the trinity of the father, son and the holy ghost, the National Assembly saw it fit to – primarily at the instigation of the Prime Minister and his law minister- declare an entire sect non-Muslim. Just like the post hoc elevation of the principle of trinity at Nicea, Pakistan’s National Assembly located Islam in the principle of the finality of Prophethood.

This act of our sovereign legislature stood in sharp contrast to the view of this nation’s founding father. On 5 May, 1944, in response to demands of the orthodox vis a vis Ahmadis, Jinnah made it absolutely clear that anyone who professes to be a Muslim is a Muslim and welcome in the Muslim League and that those who were raising the issue were trying to divide the Muslims. Here I am forced to say that I am inclined to accept Jinnah’s view and reject the collective wisdom of our sovereign legislature. There are several reasons which may be cited in this regard:

  1. First and foremost Pakistan is bound by the United Nations’ charter. Therefore Pakistan is bound to ensure freedom of religion for all its citizens and freedom of religion means freedom of religion according to the definition of the subject of the said freedom.
  2. Identity is subjective not objective. The state of Pakistan or any other state cannot tell an Ahmadi that he is not a Muslim because it is intrinsic to the faith of an Ahmadi.  This is an inviolable, inalienable right as part of right to life which every state in the world is bound to protect. If Ahmadis say they are Muslims they ought to be accepted as such.
  3. Pakistan is a signatory to the ICCPR and without reservations since June 2011. Therefore every piece of legislation that discriminates against Ahmadis or forces a label upon them is ultra vires the ICCPR.
  4. The Islamic argument: According to the Holy Prophet (PBUH) anyone who utters the Kalima Shahadah is a Muslim. None of the Kalimas, including the Primary Kalima Shahadah contains any reference to the principle of the finality of Prophethood as understood by the Muslim majority today.
  5. Finally because by conduct and promise, Pakistani state is estopped from claiming otherwise. In 1947, Pakistan laid claim to Qadian as a Muslim holy place, a counter-blast to Sikh claims on Nankana Sahib and Hassan Abdal.  Similarly in 1946 elections which is the basic referendum on the question of Pakistan, Ahmadi votes were instrumental in getting Muslims Pakistan. These are undeniable facts of history.

 

Therefore- fully aware of the stigma attached to this statement- I concur with Quaid-e-Azam Mahomed Ali Jinnah, thefounding father of Pakistan that Ahmadis are Muslims, if they say they are Muslims and no one, not even the sovereign legislature, has the right to say otherwise.

 

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3,231 Responses to "Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?"

  1. Bin Ismail Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    Yasser Latif Hamdani:
    Congratulations. Your remarkably daring article has succeeded in attracting 3000 comments. I believe, that should be a record.
    Best Regards
    Bin Ismail

  2. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ Bin ismail
    Your as well as YLH’s thanks should be due to me as it is I who
    had been forces to give a good flogging to the stale and hackneyed litany by the Mirjai deviates in this thread…

    .
    HUM KO DUAYEIN DU TUMHEIN HERO BANA DIYA!!

  3. Maggu India Google Chrome  GT-N7100 Build/JRO03C) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.166 Mobile Safari/535.19 says:

    AKB:”HUM KO DUAYEIN DU TUMHEIN HERO BANA DIYA!!”
    .
    Waah.. ghazi waah. Ye tumko kyaa dua dengey. Tumko toh jannah say allah, nabi kareem sab he dua day rahe hain. Tum na hotey toh unki asmat lut gayi hoti in mirzai logon kay hathon. Tum to islam kay sipahi ho, tumharey keyboard ki shamsheer say islam khatron say bach gaya hai.

  4. sta Pakistan Safari iPad says:

    @AKB
    //…HUM KO DUAYEIN DU TUMHEIN HERO BANA DIYA…//
    Allah aap kay haal par rehm farmai.
    .
    @Maggu
    //AKB… tumharey keyboard ki shamsheer say…//
    AKB kay keyboard mein aik hee kharabi hai aur wo ye ke Caps Lock ki key atak jati hai. Baqi tamam kharabian AKB kay dimagh mein hain.

  5. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @akb,
    no body is paying attention TO YOU , i can feel how sad its making you as you are trying to gain importance for yourself by yourself arent you?? but yes i thank you along with ylh,
    ylh for being so daring,
    and you for being so pathetic in the fight against this mirjai cult of mine, youve shown to be weak in every sense a real muslim should not be , thanks for writing so much crap to prove yourself the greatest liar on pak tea house.
    i have so much evidence to prove it but what i just wanna say , islam kay sipahi sahib is that, “”in islam the mother of all sins is lying”" and your keyboard aka sword has been the greatest tool in lying on the face, wah what a mighty fighter of islam youve been , so much liar’s poison there is on your sword, wah wah sir, youre the hero of this page , not us you sir are epic!!!!
    history will have your name in it, akb a.k.a man of god WHO took help of lies to support his turbulent flight, this man of god fabricated false statements and misquoted them to sustain his sinking boat of fight for his faith, this man of god is an utter dissapointment in the name of mankind, this man of god has no sense of right and wrong he believes in dirty language as the best tool for religious fight.and when he has no answers, when he is completely blank he starts telling bed time stories of adam and eve.
    all i can say is that, you must see your arguments again and judge for yourself, what a bad name you have brought to your faith, how badly you damaged it, ironically the name of your faith is same as mine, i fight for islam too so, i feel extreme heart ranching pain when i see illiterate immoral lying cheaters like you fighting for the purest, pristine,heavenly and most divine ,God”S chosen religion of “ISLAM”.
    p.s now please sop embarrassing yourself as you bring embarrassment to islam, im speaking from my a cult”s secret society meeting right now how surprising is my agenda right…..after that i will go to my cult”S worship place offer four rakats of farz namaz in the secret worshipping place while you keep writing shit and cuss word from your parliament certified mosques !! and now my cultish practice of saying **WELL DONE**
    Khuda Hafiz/ ASSALMUALIKUM.

  6. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @muggu

    TERAY SADQAY TERAY Qurban
    MAGGU MAKHI MAGGI JAAAN!!

    TERI URDU BHI KHAASI MARDANI NIKLEE …..YANI MERA SHAK THEEK NIKLA KE TU ZUNKHA HE…

    TERI ZANKHAHI KE SADQAY
    TERI KHAJA SARAI PE QURBAAN
    250 NE TU TERI KHABAR LAY LEE
    KUCH IDHAR BHI KAR DHAYAAN!!

  7. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ OAY MIRJAIYO! NABAKARO, NAHANJARO, BADBAKHTO!!

    TUMHARI HALAT AISEE HE JAISAY MURGHAY KEE AIK TAANG…..MIAN KAB TAK IS AKLOTI KE SAHARAY KHARAY RAHO GAY?? BUT TUMHEIN AIK DHAKKA AUR CHAHIYE AUR QISSA KHATAM!!

    .

    PAGAL HUM KO KEHNE WALAY
    KHUD PAAJI HEIN KHUD AHMAQ HEIN
    TAWEELAT GHAR LAITAY HEIN WOH
    JHOOTAY HEIN MUNAFIQ FASIQ HEIN!
    IN KEE MAUT QAREEB AAYEE HE
    AKB SE JO YE ULJHAY HEIN!

  8. Maggu India Google Chrome  GT-N7100 Build/JRO03C) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.166 Mobile Safari/535.19 says:

    AKB, aap koi jinnat kay saath khelney waley peer fakir jaadugar hain jo typing dekh kar sab kuchh samajh jaatey hain? M’ash allah aap toh apney bhai mirzaai logon say bhee aagey hain!
    .
    IN KEE MAUT QAREEB AAYEE HE
    AKB SE JO YE ULJHAY HEIN!
    .
    Kaun see tanzeem yaa lashkar say bandook chalatey hain?

  9. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ muggi chor ye thuggi

    Mein mein hoon…..mein lashkar e Islam ka adna sa sipahi hoon!!

  10. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ mahee

    You are again playing with words….not fair. Talk sense like a grown up and not like a biased Mirzai Mullah…
    .

    Khatm means end, close, shut, final, khalaas! If you beg to differ quote the meaning from some authentic dictionary source and just stop playing with words to falsely justify or establish your whims.

    .
    If one suffers
    khatm ul wald
    khatm ul safar
    khatmul maal
    khatmul nasl
    khatmul dolat
    khatmul aulad
    khatmul dunya
    khatmul harab
    khatmul zojiyat
    etetc

    All this means Khalaaas in the context of one who suffers Khatm or Khalaas..ie finality. As Prophet Muhammad is Khaatimul nabiyain it means he is the Last and Final prophet of all prophets. This is the reason that Muslims are told to believe in ALL past prophets. Nowhere muslims are told to believe in Future frofets,,,,,
    Enuf of your foolishness….believe in mirja ghulla but for heavens sake don’t say you are Muslims nor condemn adherents of Islam , Christianity, and Hinduism. Those are pure established religions …..Mirjai’s bear No comparison to them and must stop imitating them or their practices.

  11. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    akb,
    khatmul bewafaqufiyat, you have crossed every limit of stupidity, you are the best of the best stupids a man can ever come across, any stupid after you will be your disciple as your stupidness has embraced all sides all angles all dimensions of stupidity, any real stupid after you will be your subordinate ,he is really stupid yet your subservient, he is purely stupid yet your follower,he is highly stupid yet your lesser one.

    ****cheaters and liars and falsifiers will burn in hell fire on the day of judgement till then in this world their punishment is a bad mouth, twisted brain and no respect, zero self respect****

  12. Maggu India Google Chrome  GT-N7100 Build/JRO03C) AppleWebKit/535.19 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/18.0.1025.166 Mobile Safari/535.19 says:

    MAHEE, if you are in pakistan, beware of the ak47 worshipping AKB and his bros

  13. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Mahee et al
    you said ”akb bhai, you have quoted a very good speech of my beloved Quaid Muhammed Ali Jinnah, i love every bit of it. but what im not getting is that why why are you refferring this on ahmadis? Ahmadis were not a minority in Quaid’S time” ——

    jinnah hath said many things….tipsy turvy which have caused controversy and confusion to the minorities. You were long caught cheating and Jinnah might have uttered those words regarding the mirjai’s ….why don’t you quote his speech as I doubt your words?? Allama Iqbal’s remarks about Mirjai’s are on record. If you have to go by Jinnah’s word then why not go for Iqbal’s word?? After all Iqbal too was a learned man and is hailed as the Poet of the East. Wine was also Halal in Jinnah’s day but it is haram now for Muslims in Pakistan (though you can have it as a Mirjai_)…so are the heretic Mirjai’s!!

  14. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Maggu
    I am a very loving and caring person…..let mahee meet me I will serve him with a peg of Royal Salute!! You too are invited;)

  15. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ mahee
    You said Jinnah was secular yet you claim that Jinnah said religion was a matter between man and god. Okay, this contradicts the view of Muslims…but you can go by those words…but manmade Law is promulgated to overseer many things and acts including religious tuttle…
    Prostitution is also personal act of a person against Islam ….thus being a matter of personal belief that haraam is halaal but Quran clearly warns not to state haram as halaal and vice versa. You dirty belief needs reformation and only stricter blasphemy laws are going to keep your insane heads straight. Lanat on Mirja Ghulla of Qadian ……the slave of his British masters and his handful of stray dogs!

  16. Syed United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @AKB
    Dear epitome of imbecility,
    May God have mercy on your hibernating brain, Amen. You need help. And guess who’s volunteered to help you. An Ahmadi. You seem to be having trouble in distinguishing between two terms – “khaatam” as in “khaatam un Nabiyyeen” and “khatam” as in “khatam shud”. The former is an Arabic word. Arabic, let me inform you, is the language that is spoken in most of the Middle-Eastern countries. Arabic also happens to be the language in which the Holy Quran was revealed. The Quran, and forgive me for disappointing you, was for some reason not revealed in Punjabi, Urdu or even Persian. In Arabic, the word “khaatam” either refers to a Ring or to a Seal of Certification. Hence, in Arabic, “Khaatam un Nabiyyeen” would either mean “Ring of the Prophets” or “Seal of Certification of the Prophets”.
    “Lakum deenukum wa leeya deen” – for you your religion and for me mine – and mine is “Islam”

  17. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ syed the nulius filius

    .
    Khatam means khatam, ie khalaas!!

    .
    tera khatima ho gaya k tera janaza uth chuka, tera end ho chuka, to finish ho chuka, tu khalaas ho gaya!!
    pagal kee aulat fuzul luntaraniyaan mat kar…..taweelat gharne se tujh aisa shaitan insaan nahi ban sakta, na hee jhoot sach mein badal sakta he. Apne aap ko dhoka mat do…..alfaaz ki ghuman ghairee me na khud ko phansaao na auroan ko ,,,log phuddu nahi ke tum murtadon zindiqoan ke jaal me phans jayen!!
    blasphemy law tumhare leeay hee tu bana he…beta fans gaya na tu teri khaal kheenchi jaye gee….us din se dar aur apnay shareef bhai bandoan aur Mirja Ghulla aaf Qadian ko zaleel tar na kar kionke woh tu perhle he raanda e dargahe Ilahi he…aur dunya o akhirat mein rezeel tareeonoan me shumar hoga!

  18. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ syed et al

    Bayghayrat, agar tu sacha he tu kisi mustanid dictionary se Khatm ka matlab quote karne se kion avoid karta he, jhootay kameensy?
    http://www.irshad.com

  19. sta Pakistan Safari iPad says:

    @Syed
    AKB’s brain is not hibernating, It’s necrosed and undergoing suppuration.

  20. Syed United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @AKB
    Pick one. Which one is it going to be – the word of the Prophet or some dictionary? The ghairat defficiency seems to be more at your end. The Holy Prophet used the term “Khaatam” on 3 occasions:
    1. Khaatam un Nabiyyeen: for himself
    2. Khaatam ul Auliya: for Hazrat Ali
    3. Khaatam ul Muhajireen: for Hazrat Abbas
    Neither was Hazrat Ali the last Wali, nor was Hazrat Abbas the last Emmigrant. Yes, Hazrat Ali was indeed the greatest of the saints and Hazrat Abbas was the greatest of emmigrants. This is what the word of the Prophet tells us.

  21. Syed United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    AKB

    Alhamdolillah! I finally heard abusive language against myself in your remarks. I count this as a divine blessing!

  22. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ YLH /RR
    .
    A Note to Mirjai posters and their sympathizers :: ”Please do not flood the site with your absurd regurgitative comments solely to advertise your own website or a cause that you want promoted.”

    @ sta/mahee

    .
    Bayghayrats, stay on topic and submit DICTIONARY MEANING of the word KHATM
    otherwise Mirja Ghulla aur uss kee Qaum ko Chodo!!
    (mind it like the word ”khatm’ the word Chodo too has several meanings…In hindi it means ”Choro”……in Urdu etc it means different. What meaning are you going to draw from the Chodo thing??
    Definately no one is supposed to agree with YOUR interpretation…of the word Chodo or Khatm!!
    I want you to quote the meaning from independent authentic dictionaries.
    WTF is holding you back, you liar Mirjai’s??

  23. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Syed

    .
    Never seen a better idiot than you ,,bloody jaali syed!! Don;t you understand simple English or Urdu?? Why do you sway here and there and not quote from independent authentic dictionaries the meaning of the word Khatm??? You are evidently biggest liars and cheaters of all!!
    You are definitely THE ENEMIES OF PAKISTAN!! you are even worse than any or all non-Muslims….you are the bastard children of the British and Indians!!

  24. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Syed
    Islam is a universal language and people from all or many religions read this thread. Since you have corrupted the meaning of Khaatim or Khatm it becomes more obligatory on you to support and substantiate it with a meaning that is universally understood by all. So, go ahead and submit. I can realize the impossiblity of your finding any dictionary which meets with your choicest interpretation of the word Khatm, hence this dilly dallying form you idiota!!
    Lulloo, ab bhi waqt he Mirja Ghulla of Qadian ko chodo aur insaan bano!!

  25. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    AKB:
    i have lost count of my slaps on your face, but this is one very hard one that im aiming directly on your nasty looking duochebag head.i went to every dictionary on the web for you dirty mouth, and look what i found when i translate khatam : its the same seal, ring,final.but since most of the sites have already been polluted with the sunni parliament certified meaning of it, i translated every english word that has last in it or is a synonym of last, end, finish as you love screaming all the time.the following are the link and every translation in arabic of that word which is possible. my sources are non “AHMADI”unlike your parliament certified “”LASHKARE JHANGVI”" publications arabic dictionary.Founding body in polluting innocent brains, yes thats what happened to you kiddo, when you started quoting from their sources, look what miserable condition you are in, i feel nothing but empathy for you. any ways the irony is when i start translating seal , and ring a number arabic words with the root word akhtam sprout out like a fountain.if you mr.shut off brain have any issue with it, go and translate the words for yourself. its sad how badly your heart and mind is sealed with biggotted maulvi scriptures, its sad how there are rods in your head and you cannot see whats right in front of you.
    i can only have empathy for you, nothing but empathy.you are nothing but a shitty mouth peice of biggotted maulvi scriptures and mindless unfaithful islamic extremists.HAZRAT MIRZA GHULAM AHMED(A.S), AND HIS followers will keep spreading peace and enlightenment,.You keep crying and weeping in front of ylh, rr but you still remain from among the “”jahilia”"
    read for yourself::

    1.

    last:ماض, أخير, آخر, سابق, اّخير
    last: ثبت, أنهى, دام, تحمل, إستمر

    2.
    last أخير

    3.LAST:
    ص. ماض, أخير, آخر, سابق

    ف. ثبت, أنهى, دام, تحمل, استمر

    4.RING:
    ف. رن الجرس, هز, هاتف, أحاط, طوق, رن, وضع حدا, قرع الأجراس, تماجن, حلق, طن, نال شهرة واسعة, بدا, قذف بحلقة, طوق بحلقة, قرع

    أ. حلقة, طوق,”"*** خاتم ( الإصبع )****”"”, قرع, عصابة, رنين, حلبة ( المصارعة أو الملاكمة ), دائرة, دارة القمر, ملاكمة, حقل تنافسي سياسي, عصبة, نبرة, طني

    5
    SEAL:

    ف.”"** ختم**”", سد, قرر نهائيا, بصم, سمكر, برشم, “”**اختتم*”, صاد الفقمة

    **”"أ. مهر,”"** ختم**”", فقمة, طابع, علامة, “”**ختم بالشمع الأحمر

    6END:
    أ. نهاية, كيس, طرف, غرض, بقية, هلاك, غاية, هدف, نتيجة, توقف, حد

    ف. فرغ, أنهى, قتل, انتهى, وضع حد, قصد, قطع ( عن )

    7FINISH:

    N نهاية, لمسة أخيرة, حل مشكلة, زخارف المبنى
    V فرغ, أنهى, إنتهى, كمل, أضفى اللمسات, هزم, قتل, نجز

    8FINISHED:
    A منجز, مكمل, منتهي, متمم, كامل

    9/
    SEALED:ص. مغلق, محكم الاغلاق, مسدود, مختوم

    ف. ختم, سد, قرر نهائيا, بصم, سمكر, برشم, اختتم, صاد الفقمة

    sources :1. babylon.com/define/98/English-Arabic-Dictionary-Online
    2.online.ectaco.co
    3..dicts.info

  26. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ mahee
    //////*****You said Jinnah was secular yet you claim that Jinnah said religion was a matter between man and god. Okay, this contradicts the view of Muslims…but you can go by those words…but manmade Law is promulgated to overseer many things and acts including religious tuttle…///////*****

    i donot understand a single word of whats written above, were you high while writing this..

    ////*** Prostitution is also personal act of a person against Islam ….thus being a matter of personal belief that haraam is halaal but Quran clearly warns not to state haram as halaal and vice versa. You dirty belief needs reformation and only stricter blasphemy laws are going to keep your insane heads straight///****

    okay again were you really high when you wrote this, do you find no difference between a moral and immoral acts. are you seriously so corrupt? freedom of practising religion believing in ALLAH, has no connection with immoral, illegal act of prostitution.what the hell is wrong with you, secular state means freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of choosing any religion you like and practicing openly. secular you lunatic dirty filth bag in no way is allowing prostitution , in the most unreligious of societies prostitution is considered a crime. what the hell man??? what are you doing ?? are you okay???
    not believing in the Holy prophets words and applying it in t the way he used them but instead going with maula publications dictionary is that your islam Hazrat Mohammed(s.a.w) used khatam in khatamul muhajireen, to tell every muslim that his uncle Hazrat Abbas(raz) was one of the best emmigrants not because he was the last emmigrant. if you are telling me that he didnt use it then you go check lunatic.and if you want to negate what holy prophet said or your trying in any way to change his words or their real meaning then LANAT on you.curse of GOD be upon you, mentally ill imbecile.

  27. Kashif United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @mahee
    Thank you for posting these dictionary quotes. God bless you. We Ahmadi Muslims have been arguing our point of view, with the support of the Quran, the Hadees, sayings of earlier Muslim saints, etc. But we all know that it is extremely difficult to convince someone against one’s traditional belief. So, the best you can do is to convey your point clearly to the other person, which you already have. Well done.
    What our fellow-Pakistanis are not seeing is that by enacting the 2nd amendment of the constitution of Pakistan, the state has become guilty of violating a fundamental teaching of the Quran, which is: “There is no compulsion in Religion” [Baqara:256]. The 2nd amendment directly contravenes this ayat of the Quran. This is the constitution of an Islamic Republic.
    Aap ko mera mashwara ye hai ke AKB ko uss kay haal per chorh dein. Ye shakhs bad-zaban aur bad-akhlaq hai. Iss se baat karna la hasil hai. Hum apna muamla Allah Ta’ala ke supurd karte hain.

  28. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    tell me when you accept that you are not accpeting Holy Prophet(s.a.w) way of using Khatamul muahjireen, and i will personally use the most vicious blasphemy law against you and turn you in. Im a citizen too, when you guys can fabricate false evidence against ahmadis and persecute innocent ahmadi muslims , and other non muslims, why cant i use truth as my power and tell you what blasphemy actually is???are you free of blasphemy just because parliament certified you muslim, you are free to lie, free to fabricate false evidence, free to allegate of blasphemy anyone but not your own divine self? do you think writing wrong statements and labelling them as Mirza Ghulam’s saying is a very moral act of nobility you are doing no you should have read Quran before doing all this, do you know the cost of making false allegations on someone in Quran, no! if this country is really how an islamic state should be then right now you should get 70 lashes, and i will personally reproduce the truthful proof unlike your lot who have to go through so much pain in false fabrications and forgery.Poor imam who went through so much hard labor to culminate rimsha”s blasphemy case instead got himself to jail! what do you think AKB , that GOD is not watching and you can do whatever you want, well no even in this worst of all judiciary of Pakistan, GOD can intervene.so you must stop your corrupt ways of maligning MIrza Ghulam(a.s) and ahmadi names!!and let us practice our religious rights , of praying five times in “mosques”, and Writing our religion as “MUSLIMS” in official paperwork, and lahore high court should lift the ban on shezan, the qadiyani drink,, thats the secularism i was talking about. thats the secularism of peace,,harmony and religious tolerance jinnah sahab wanted!!

  29. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @kashif,
    i totally agree with you, may GOD give us the courage and patience to tolerate this group of jahilia we are against (ameen)

  30. sta Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @mahee (December 14, 2012 at 2:53 pm)
    Jazakallah for those dictionary references that AKB was dying to have. I was afraid he was going to have a heart attack if he didn’t get them. May God have mercy upon his ailing heart, not to mention brain. However, in view of his past record, it is not likely that AKB will appreciate the references you’ve posted. One thing is clear – dictionaries mean more to AKB than do the words of the Holy Prophet Muhammad. If AKB had an iota of decency in him, he would stop braying after your this last comment. But he doesn’t. Just keep waiting for his next bray.

  31. Syed United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Hazrat Ayesha is reported as having said:

    Say he was Khataman Nabiyyeen, but do not say that there will be no prophet after him. (Durre Manshur, Vol. V of Jalaludin Suyuti)

  32. Syed United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    AKB:

    Hadith Bukhari and Muslim for the word ‘Khatam’ to mean ‘Seal’ in the sense of attestation or certification (i.e. not last):

    “Āmīn, is the Seal (Khatam) of the Lord of all the worlds placed on the tongues of believing men.”
    Anas abn Malik relates that the Holy Prophetsa desired to send a letter to the leaders of foreign nations. Someone said to him that these people do not accept any letter unless it bears a seal (Khatam). Thereupon the Holy Prophetsa had a signet ring (Khatam) made of silver, bearing the words “Muhammad Messenger of Allah.”

  33. Syed United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    All classical lexicons say that the word خاتم, which roughly translates to Seal.Classical lexicons presenting this are Lisān al-‘Arab, Tāj al-‘Arūs, Al-Mufridāt li-Gharīb al-Qur’ān, Aqrab al-Mawārid, Lane’s English-Arabic Lexicon, Al-Muĥīt, Muĥīt Al-Muĥīt, Al-Ghanī, Al-Wasīt and Al-Qāmūs Al-Muĥīt.

    Khatam-al-kitab’ conveys the meaning ‘The letter has been enclosed and sealed so that it is finally secured.’

    ‘Khatama-’Ala-al-Qalb’ means ‘The heart has been sealed so that it cannot perceive anything new nor can it forswear what it has already imbibed.’

  34. Dronacharya Saudi Arabia Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Hz. Ayesha Bint Abu Bakr was a very superior intellectual. Her intellect and scholarship is one of the finest manifestations of Islam ! Hz. Ayesha ran the 1st School for Girls ! She was an Institution Builder. Sorry to say (and no offence meant), Hz. Fatima Bint Muhammad paled in comparison to Hz. Ayesha. Hz. Fatima was a Gharelu type woman., with no intellect whatsoever. This is the truth. As the Prophet himself said : “Nasab, a legacy of Jahiliyya, is below my feet”. (Last Sermon). What does it mean ? It means : Meritocracy. Islam was VERY simple. One could put it in 10 lines.

    But 2-3 centuries after the Prophet, corruption set in. It started with : “Ilm-e-Baatin”, “Taqiyya” (lie to save ur skin), and TAAWEEL (EXIGIS). Sh. Abdulqadar Jeelani, a great scholar, stood up and rightly called Jafar Al Sadiq as a “Liar”. (Jafer was mainly interested in “making money” – dharm ki dukaandaari.. Living 5-Star life on people’s account – and promising them a corner plot in heaven.. or an apartment on the Top Floor).

    Taweel killed Islam.
    Ilm-e-baatin corrupted Islam.
    and TAQAIYYA (approving LIES)was the last nail.

    Without these 3 corruptions., Islam is a very living FORCE. It is a life-giving force too. And it is for all humanity. No one has any copy-right for it. Any person who does NOT lie., who is GOOD to his/her parents., who is respectful to his family (extended)., who is GOOD to his/her neighbour.. IS A MUSLIM.. irrespective of whether he has an Arabic name or a Sanskrit one.

    God / Allah knows all languages. SO there is no need for 117 translator(s).

    —– Now a saddening news from India —– This is the result of hate propogation by RSS/BJP. It leads to this kind of psyche… and then results the “Decline”… The Vinaash Kaal-ey of BJP/RSS has destroyed the mind (Vipreet Buddhi).

    A four-year-old, who was allegedly sexually abused by her father’s friend, spent her fourth day in a Bangalore hospital on Thursday. Doctors monitored the healing of 17 bite marks on her body. Police have arrested the accused, small-time property broker K Doraiswamy, 35.

    Doraiswamy had sent the girl’s father to Tamil Nadu on an errand and abused the girl left in his care, police said. “My wife and I treated Doraiswamy like our brother, but he turned out to be a cruel beast,” said girl’s father, who is struggling to establish himself after a failed bakery business venture.

    According to Police, Doraiswamy admitted the girl in the hospital on Monday, claiming she had been injured while playing. He claimed to be her uncle, but did not return to the hospital thereafter. Doctors spotted the bite marks and suspected the child had been sexually abused. The hospital alerted the state Child Welfare Committee.

    After Doraiswamy was picked up on Wednesday, hospital staff confirmed he was the man who had admitted the girl,” Bangalore Police Commissioner B.G. Jyothiprakash Mirji said on Friday. A doctor attending on the girl said, “She is responding well to treatment and will be discharged soon.”

    —– This is what happens —– when you create a culture that says : “Rape Muslims.. Kill Muslims.. Steal Muslim-Property (by painting a stone safforn and converting it into a hut – then asbestos sheet – then a Pucca Temple). Start with the stone and lay claim to Private Muslim Property ! Once you inject THIS., turn a youngster to a rapist/killer., he cant be switched off and turned back into normal. You unleash a BEAST in a society. After sometime, he starts doing his JOB on Hindus themselves. THIS is the danger Pt. Jawaharlal Nehru SAW.. 65 years back.. and gave it “Utterance”.

  35. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Syed
    .
    Quote from the dictionary pages themselves…but not the remote meaning but the direct and commonly understood and approved one.
    .
    Nowhere in common dialect do you say khatm for a ring or seal”??? You will note that even the word ”seal’ has different meanings in English.
    What does this mean: YOur Fate is Sealed?? The door is sealed. and so on!!
    The plain and recognized meaning of Khatm is Final,closed, end, khalaas!!
    Why should one be over-apolegetic to explain to others what Khatm means when even a non Muslim or Hindu knows that Khatam means Khalaaas!!
    Do you buy a
    khatam’for your bride?? No, You buy a ring!!
    Petrol khatam….car stopped. Only Mirja Ghulla had the sense to refuel it as if religion was a toy to play with!!

  36. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    To, all the readers of pak tea house, i would like to present this great example of seal, that makes the meaning of SEAL of prophets very clear. A seal as i may say is that token of representation , that signature, that insignia, that emblem, which symbolifies a status , a rank a powerful badge to the one holding it.It signifies the unique status of the one holding it. a great example of this seal of certfication is the seal of united states of america.The Great Seal of the United States is used to authenticate certain documents issued by the United States federal government.
    The Seal of the President of the United States is directly based on the Great Seal, and its elements are used in numerous government agency and state seals.it is this seal of president which represents him, it is this seal behind which president stands to speak officilaly.it is this seal that signifis as well as certifies to public the high status of the great president.
    if the word seal was only meant for the glue that is used to close documents than the president of united states”s honour was in having a glue after his name .Seriously? is that what his seal means. No! obviously, his seal , is the honour , the power , that highest rank that only he and only he is entitled to use.no two people can share the seal of president of united states of america.
    just like that, no body in the entire history of islam can use this seal of prophets, which Holy Prophet Muhammed (s.a.w) was entitled with. his was the seal of prophets, his was the highest rank in prophets. his was the greatest stature in all the prophets before or after him. he is the unique one, the “seal of prophet”.
    simply, calling him the last doesnot honour his stature in the way its worthy of. because if he is the last, then there is a first one as well! both are prophets both are beloved holy people of God, what is the difference between both? if the difference is that he finishes prophethood, then isnt the one who started it equally great?
    If his honour is in finishing prophethood, then the generations that come after him and amongst them who are his true followers , and those who pray for sirate mustaqim with deepest conviction and prove to be true devotees of Hazrat Muhammed (s.a.w), who reach to the highest level of devotion to islam and Muhammed (s.a.w) , which is highly unlikely but when it happens, when someone actually reaches to that highest level of devotion with Hazrat Muhammed(s.a.w),after many centuries does this happen, whats his status?if he is that devotee of Muhammed (s.a.w), that lost his soul in Muhammed (s.a.w) being.the Holy Prophet (s.a.w), that great rehmatulil alameen, in whose love God made this universe, because of his existence the universe exists. wouldnt making that true follower of Holy Prophet (s.a.w),a “subservient” prophet of Muhammad(s.a.w), greatly increase the honour of the “seal of prophets” Hazrat Muhammed (s.a.w).?
    Food for thought, for all those enlightened minds??

  37. Kashif United States Safari Mac OS says:

    @mahee
    @Syed
    Thank you both of you, for posting all these dictionary quotes. God bless you. All standard and recognized dictionaries translate the word “khaatam” in exactly the same way as Jamaat Ahmadiyya does. When we say that the Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad was the “Seal of the Prophets”, we are saying that just as the “Seal” certifies the validity of the document, the Prophet Muhammad, as the “Seal”, endorses and attests the truth of all other prophets. The “Seal of the Prophets” is the symbol that represents all prophets. On the other hand, if we take the second meaning of the word “khaatam”, ie “Ring”, what we are saying is that the Prophet Hazrat Muhammad is the “Jewel of all the prophets”. Both these meanings of the word “khaatam” truly bring to light, the true spiritual grandeur of the Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad.
    The claim to prophethood made by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad does not go beyond the scope of the actual prophecy made by the Holy Prophet himself. According to the sayings of the Holy Prophet, the Promised Mahdi was meant to be a “Follower-Prophet”, unlike all the other Prophets who preceded him. Hazrat Mirza Sahib never claimed to be a prophet in his own right. He simply claimed that in fulfillment of the prophecy made by Hazrat Muhammad, he was the Mahdi, who was, according to Rasoolullah’s own prophecy meant to be a Follower-Prophet. This means that whatever spiritual height he attained, was due to his being the perfect disciple of Rasoolullah, not due to his own excellence. If God spoke to Hazrat Mirza Sahib, it was because Hazrat Mirza Sahib was so perfectly devoted and committed to Rasoolullah. This is what is meant by the term “Zilli Nabi”. A “Zilli Nabi” or an “Ummati Nabi” is NOT a Nabi in his own right. An “Ummati Nabi” is by definition, a true follower of the Prophet Muhammad, who has been blessed with an abundance of Divine Revelation on account of his devotion to Hazrat Muhammad. This in short, is what Ahmadi Muslims believe.

  38. Syed United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Kashif

    Well said. The point that you’ve highlighted, is definitely an important one. There is a huge difference between being a “prophet” and being a “follower-prophet”. A “prophet” is someone to whom God speaks frequently and has been chosen for this great Divine favor on account of his own independent relationship with God. A “follower-prophet”, in contrast, is someone who is blessed with Divine Discourse, as a reward for his devotion towards Muhammad the Holy Prophet. Thr founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam claimed to be a “follower-prophet”.

  39. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    Syed

    Your argument is an unislamic one. Devotion should be only to Allah not to prophets. Worshipping prophets is kuffar practice.

  40. Kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Dear Ahmadi friends

    You make so many basic errors of understanding regarding Islam that it would be better if you really spoke to Muslims, or those who know Islam rather than congratulate and thank one another endlessly. You would agree that such a pleasant exercise cannot improve your understanding.

    (1) In our normal language, there is NO difference between Allah speaking to someone frequently and Allah blessing someone with frequent conversations.

    (2) There is absolutely nothing in Islam that says that Allah will strike daily conversation with the Mahdi or convey/relay messages of any kinds. The job of the Mahdi is very clear. He shall destroy all false religions other than Islam and so ‘terrorize’ the followers of false religions that they will have no option but to follow Islam.

    (Earlier you gentlemen have asked – “How could that be possible?” That is the first in a ‘believer’ questioning Allah’s motives or full knowledge that a believer does not or cannot possess. Allah knows best, unless of course, if you are not a believer in Allah in the first place.)

  41. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ ALL MIRJAI;S

    OK, SUPPOSE I SAID I AM THE SEAL( A RATIFIER, ACCORDING TO YOUR BELIEF) OF ALL PROPHETS, WOULD THAT MAKE ME A SO-CALLED ‘FOLLOWER PROPHET” BETTER AND MORE MODERN THAN MIRJA GHULLA??

    .

    I AGREE WITH WHAT KALACHKRA HAS STATED IN HIS ABOVE POST.

  42. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ MTG

    FIRST TIME YOU SPOKE SENSE AND I MAY BUT COMMEND YOU ON YOUR SENSIBILITY THIS TIME!! yES, WEE MUST NOT WORSHIP MEN EVEN IF THEY ARE PROPHETS. ALL worship IS DUE TO GOD ALONE!!

  43. Syed United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Milestogo (December 17, 2012 at 1:02 am)

    //…Your argument is an unislamic one. Devotion should be only to Allah not to prophets. Worshipping prophets is kuffar practice…//

    The word “devotion”, as you already know, also means profound dedication. It also means deep commitment. The meaning that you appear to be assuming, is the Ecclesiastical usage, which is in the sense of worship. However, may I clarify that I did not use the expression “devotion” in the Ecclesiastical sense of the word. In my previous comment, when I said: “.. A “follower-prophet”, in contrast, is someone who is blessed with Divine Discourse, as a reward for his [devotion] towards Muhammad the Holy Prophet. The founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam claimed to be a “follower-prophet”..”, I was using the word “devotion” in the sense of profound dedication and deep commitment.

    @Kaalchakra (December 17, 2012 at 11:06 am)

    The term “Mahdi” means the “Guided One”. The Mahdi would, as his title suggests, guide people on the basis of the Divine guidance he would receive in the form of Divine revelation – not by means of the sword. Thank you for taking interest.

  44. MilesToGo United States Safari Mac OS says:

    Syed

    if you say so I will take it but let’s make a clear distinction between prophets and allah. allah has no favorite prophets. prophets are just message carriers like postman. postman is not important message is.

    we should stop naming kids after muhammed – lets name them after allah.

  45. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Syed/MTG

    hear hear!! this mirjai guy is vainly trying to ourwelter mtg by yer another ploy by playing with words!! Yes, Allah or God only commands worship…not any prophet. If you worship a frofet you are committing idolatoy,ie sheerk which is not tenable at Islam or even with Sikhism. There is no such thing as a ”follower-prophet”….unless you invent one such as Molvi Mirja ghulla of Qadian of Punjab!!

    Another stupid statement by Syed Mirjai is that ” a “follower-prophet” is someone who is blessed with Divine Discourse, as a reward for his [devotion] towards Muhammad the Holy Prophet. ”………….how stupid thing for Syed to say. If it was like that every companion would have been a ‘socalled follower-prophet..but there was none!!
    Another way among many Muslims is to enjoy ”divine discourse.. with Allah through Istikhara. So, assuming that ”divine discourse ‘was the criteria for being a ‘follower frofet” every Muslim would have been one!!
    Mian sy-yudd stop you bullshit as you can fool yerself but no one else with your lecherous ingenuity at fabricating stories and misinterpreting words to ugly suit your failed cause.
    MTG has certainly given you a hard kick on your behind!! Now don’t scream and cry if kc or I gave you more!!

  46. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    read this line as ” If it was like that every companion of Prophet Muhammad would have been a ‘socalled follower-prophet..but there was none!!

  47. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ mtg

    for your information Muslims already use Allah in their names…such as
    Allah ditta
    Allah Rakha
    Allah Waali
    Allah Bux
    ec etc

    .

    IN THE GOING I MUST SAY THAT ”MIRJA” IS NOT A PUNJABI CAST AT ALL!!
    MIRJA IS A TURKISH TITLE….AGAIN STOLEN BY MOLVIG MURJA OF QADIAN TO ASSERT HIS IMPORTANCE AND LATER HIS FALSE FROFETHOOD!!
    MIRJA PER LAANAT ULLAH!! ( SEE HERE TOO ALLAH IS USED IN THE PHRASE!!))

  48. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    You make so many basic errors of understanding regarding Islam that it would be better if you really spoke to Muslims, or those who know Islam rather than congratulate and thank one another endlessly. You would agree that such a pleasant exercise cannot improve your understanding”"”"”****.
    oh really, its just good to see a devout hindu follower like you being so protective of “islam”? when did that happen is this your fear for ahmadiyyat speaking so loud well let me clear you there is no difference between islam and ahmadiyyat, we are both on the same page of sets of beliefs, and fyi you are supposed to defend hinduism from ahmadiyyat not islam!why dont you use your hinduism knowledge instead of islam to fight against ahmadis, why islam?are afraid hinduism will not be enough??or are you actually afraid of ahmadis and trying your best to widen this bridge of misunderstanding that non ahmadis muslims have about ahmadi muslims?thats not gonna help you sir at all, you still remain the hindi religion follwer and if there is anything you are supposed to represent is hinduism, not islam!just because akb has been a bad loser doesnt mean islam needs your protection, trust me islam is under divine protection, and real one will always remain..

    “”"***8(1) In our normal language, there is NO difference between Allah speaking to someone frequently and Allah blessing someone with frequent conversations.”"”"**
    again, this argument itself reflects that you have no idea about god in islam and his divine revelations.there is a big difference as for your kind information i must tell you none of us human are blessed with the power to talk with God!have you ever heard his voice?? realllyyyy! how does he sound like???but holy saints and prophets do reach that highest level of faith, that God actually contacts them very frequently through divine dreams, Kashf (divine revelations) , roya, wahi etc. and thats the level of faith where a prophet is in conversation with god so frequently, that he claims it openly. he claims this to public and makes some prophecies to prove his point.and when all these prophecies that he makes come true word by word , then no objection remains on the holiness of that person and the divine messages he brings.islam is all about spirituality, and it takes very high levels of sprituality and love with God, that takes a common man to that level of purity, where he can see God clearly and hear him and feel him okay…Hazrat Mirza Ghulam(a.s), not only claimed his divine sending he also proved it by its fullfillment. no man in the history not even nasa or any other group has this power to bring sun and moon in one line and that also the very same dates as prophecised by the Messiah so it was obviously God who told him about its happeniing. read the grand prophecy of the promissed Messiah will you please!
    (2) “”"****There is absolutely nothing in Islam that says that Allah will strike daily conversation with the Mahdi or convey/relay messages of any kinds. The job of the Mahdi is very clear. He shall destroy all false religions other than Islam and so ‘terrorize’ the followers of false religions that they will have no option but to follow Islam.
    (Earlier you gentlemen have asked – “How could that be possible?” That is the first in a ‘believer’ questioning Allah’s motives or full knowledge that a believer does not or cannot possess. Allah knows best, unless of course, if you are not a believer in Allah in the first place.)”"”"****
    again stop speaking false rubbish about islam, will you please? stop fooling yourself around in this wrong room you have entered!islam is a religion of peace, there is no compulsion on religion in islam, you just cannot force anyone to accept islam forcefully, if someone does he is going against the very basic teachings of quran. islam is about amnesty for all! because its divinity in this religion, reality and practicality and vitality. do you think this barbaric picture of mahdi you are presenting is even feasible in todays times. this era is of jihad bil qalam, the war of arguments!and mahdi is supposed to beat all with his immaculate arguments, as prophecised by Holy Prophet (saw).read some islam will you? before speaking about it…
    if you are trying to bring terrorists and extremists of the muslim groups in this picture, then you are totally wrong about them, because then there are hindu terrorist extremist organizations , and even budhist extremist organizations now as well.and all of them are anti islamic!none of them is portraying the real picture of islam and teachings of quran.Quran has time and again discouraged extremism and the sunnah of prophet has actually on record no room for extremism and terrorism to spread islam or to punish someone. the highest punishment that Holy Prophet(s.a.w), has ever given anyone is of expelling him from the country.hence mahdi who is obviously a true follower of islam, definately not a terrorist. he is supposed to have divine wisdom and Promissed Messiah words are enough for this time to beat every argument.

  49. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @kaalchakra, when you said
    “”"You make so many basic errors of understanding regarding Islam that it would be better if you really spoke to Muslims, or those who know Islam rather than congratulate and thank one another endlessly. You would agree that such a pleasant exercise cannot improve your understanding”””””****.
    oh really, its just good to see a devout hindu follower like you being so protective of “islam”? when did that happen is this your fear for ahmadiyyat speaking so loud well let me clear you there is no difference between islam and ahmadiyyat, we are both on the same page of sets of beliefs, and fyi you are supposed to defend hinduism from ahmadiyyat not islam!why dont you use your hinduism knowledge instead of islam to fight against ahmadis, why islam?are afraid hinduism will not be enough??or are you actually afraid of ahmadis and trying your best to widen this bridge of misunderstanding that non ahmadis muslims have about ahmadi muslims?thats not gonna help you sir at all, you still remain the hindi religion follwer and if there is anything you are supposed to represent is hinduism, not islam!just because akb has been a bad loser doesnt mean islam needs your protection, trust me islam is under divine protection, and real one will always remain..
    “””***8(1) In our normal language, there is NO difference between Allah speaking to someone frequently and Allah blessing someone with frequent conversations.””””**
    again, this argument itself reflects that you have no idea about god in islam and his divine revelations.there is a big difference as for your kind information i must tell you none of us human are blessed with the power to talk with God!have you ever heard his voice?? realllyyyy! how does he sound like???but holy saints and prophets do reach that highest level of faith, that God actually contacts them very frequently through divine dreams, Kashf (divine revelations) , roya, wahi etc. and thats the level of faith where a prophet is in conversation with god so frequently, that he claims it openly. he claims this to public and makes some prophecies to prove his point.and when all these prophecies that he makes come true word by word , then no objection remains on the holiness of that person and the divine messages he brings.islam is all about spirituality, and it takes very high levels of sprituality and love with God, that takes a common man to that level of purity, where he can see God clearly and hear him and feel him okay…Hazrat Mirza Ghulam(a.s), not only claimed his divine sending he also proved it by its fullfillment. no man in the history not even nasa or any other group has this power to bring sun and moon in one line and that also the very same dates as prophecised by the Messiah so it was obviously God who told him about its happeniing. read the grand prophecy of the promissed Messiah will you please!
    (2) “””****There is absolutely nothing in Islam that says that Allah will strike daily conversation with the Mahdi or convey/relay messages of any kinds. The job of the Mahdi is very clear. He shall destroy all false religions other than Islam and so ‘terrorize’ the followers of false religions that they will have no option but to follow Islam.
    (Earlier you gentlemen have asked – “How could that be possible?” That is the first in a ‘believer’ questioning Allah’s motives or full knowledge that a believer does not or cannot possess. Allah knows best, unless of course, if you are not a believer in Allah in the first place.)””””****
    again stop speaking false rubbish about islam, will you please? stop fooling yourself around in this wrong room you have entered!islam is a religion of peace, there is no compulsion on religion in islam, you just cannot force anyone to accept islam forcefully, if someone does he is going against the very basic teachings of quran. islam is about amnesty for all! because its divinity in this religion, reality and practicality and vitality. do you think this barbaric picture of mahdi you are presenting is even feasible in todays times. this era is of jihad bil qalam, the war of arguments!and mahdi is supposed to beat all with his immaculate arguments, as prophecised by Holy Prophet (saw).read some islam will you? before speaking about it…
    if you are trying to bring terrorists and extremists of the muslim groups in this picture, then you are totally wrong about them, because then there are hindu terrorist extremist organizations , and even budhist extremist organizations now as well.and all of them are anti islamic!none of them is portraying the real picture of islam and teachings of quran.Quran has time and again discouraged extremism and the sunnah of prophet has actually on record no room for extremism and terrorism to spread islam or to punish someone. the highest punishment that Holy Prophet(s.a.w), has ever given anyone is of expelling him from the country.hence mahdi who is obviously a true follower of islam, definately not a terrorist. he is supposed to have divine wisdom and Promissed Messiah words are enough for this time to beat every argument.

  50. kaalchakra United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Dear Ahmadi friends

    Thank you again for your very calm and collected replies.

    YDear Mahee, you should not discount the possibility that Allah does speak to me regularly. Over the last ten years, every prediction I have made about Ahmdism has come true. But for the fact that it would be unpleasant to hear, I can also make complete predictions for what lies in store for Ahmadism for the next ten, twenty, hundred or thousand years from now.

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