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Pak Tea House » Uncategorized » Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?

Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?

By Yasser Latif Hamdani

(Written exclusively for PakTeaHouse. Please give credit when crossposting)

The poison of ignorance and extremism that Bhutto and General Zia jointly fathered during their dictatorial regimes has fully indoctrinated even those who otherwise describe themselves as educated.

This week the Large Hadron Collider at the CERN inched closer to the discovery of Higgs Boson or the God Particle as it were. In this extraordinary story of human achievement,  Dr. Abdus Salam is a key player who put Pakistan on the map of theoretical physics. In his homeland though, a group of self-styled champions of Islam have started a posthumous campaign of scurrilous slander claiming that Dr. Salam was giving out nuclear secrets. Forget that even a confirmed bigot like General Zia  held a ceremony in our only nobel prize winner’s honour or that no one ever accused Dr. Salam of any such thing; in Pakistan to be a hero you have to actually transfer technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea.

Now consider the case of 11 year old Sitara Akbar. Every Pakistani and his mother in law are citing her as a crowning national achievement, blissfully oblivious of the fact that she is an Ahmadi. To them her religion is suddenly unimportant or irrelevant or is it? How many Sitara Akbars have been expelled from our schools for being Ahmadi? How many productive citizens of this republic have been killed and maimed for believing differently?

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s National Assembly imagined itself the Islamic equivalent of the Council of Nicea. Just as that ancient bastion of Christian orthodoxy excommunicated unitarian Christians for not believing in the trinity of the father, son and the holy ghost, the National Assembly saw it fit to – primarily at the instigation of the Prime Minister and his law minister- declare an entire sect non-Muslim. Just like the post hoc elevation of the principle of trinity at Nicea, Pakistan’s National Assembly located Islam in the principle of the finality of Prophethood.

This act of our sovereign legislature stood in sharp contrast to the view of this nation’s founding father. On 5 May, 1944, in response to demands of the orthodox vis a vis Ahmadis, Jinnah made it absolutely clear that anyone who professes to be a Muslim is a Muslim and welcome in the Muslim League and that those who were raising the issue were trying to divide the Muslims. Here I am forced to say that I am inclined to accept Jinnah’s view and reject the collective wisdom of our sovereign legislature. There are several reasons which may be cited in this regard:

  1. First and foremost Pakistan is bound by the United Nations’ charter. Therefore Pakistan is bound to ensure freedom of religion for all its citizens and freedom of religion means freedom of religion according to the definition of the subject of the said freedom.
  2. Identity is subjective not objective. The state of Pakistan or any other state cannot tell an Ahmadi that he is not a Muslim because it is intrinsic to the faith of an Ahmadi.  This is an inviolable, inalienable right as part of right to life which every state in the world is bound to protect. If Ahmadis say they are Muslims they ought to be accepted as such.
  3. Pakistan is a signatory to the ICCPR and without reservations since June 2011. Therefore every piece of legislation that discriminates against Ahmadis or forces a label upon them is ultra vires the ICCPR.
  4. The Islamic argument: According to the Holy Prophet (PBUH) anyone who utters the Kalima Shahadah is a Muslim. None of the Kalimas, including the Primary Kalima Shahadah contains any reference to the principle of the finality of Prophethood as understood by the Muslim majority today.
  5. Finally because by conduct and promise, Pakistani state is estopped from claiming otherwise. In 1947, Pakistan laid claim to Qadian as a Muslim holy place, a counter-blast to Sikh claims on Nankana Sahib and Hassan Abdal.  Similarly in 1946 elections which is the basic referendum on the question of Pakistan, Ahmadi votes were instrumental in getting Muslims Pakistan. These are undeniable facts of history.

 

Therefore- fully aware of the stigma attached to this statement- I concur with Quaid-e-Azam Mahomed Ali Jinnah, thefounding father of Pakistan that Ahmadis are Muslims, if they say they are Muslims and no one, not even the sovereign legislature, has the right to say otherwise.

 




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3,213 Responses to "Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?"

  1. Kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    “madness is bound to envelop you soon my son, my son as prophecised by your ahmadi brother.”

    Brother and sister tp, my other ahmadi brothers and sisters had prophesied to have me dead within ten years, but it seems they can’t find me to send hired Allah to kill me in the dead of the night yet. Now you have Ahmadi lovingly prophesied madness for me. I am touched and thank you for the bottom of my heart. :)

    Does that change those unimportant details about Mirza Ghulam bhai? No.

  2. Khan United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Kaalchakra
    //…If we disagree with your gracious lords and lordesses we are rebellious, prostitutes, sons of prostitutes and pimps. For not accepting Bhai Ghulam Ahmad’s claims we are illogical, talk mindless rubbish, commit extreme treachery…//
    It’s none of the above. Neither Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Founder of the Ahmadiyya Community, nor members of the Ahmadiyya Community, consider you or anybody else any of the above for disagreeing with us.

  3. sta Pakistan Safari iPad says:

    @Sister Kaalchakra
    @Brother Mahee
    In you comment of December 21, 2012 at 12:28 pm, Sister Kaalchakra, you wrote the following words to Brother Mahee:
    “..My purpose is not to stop you, only to clarify that you do not follow Islam..”
    These words did, admittedly catch my eye and had to intrude by humbly asking Sister Kaalchakra:
    “..How, may I respectfully ask, did you infer that Mahee is not following Islam?..”
    Sister Kaalchakra, I continue to eagerly look forward to your detailed sisterly reply.
    Your brother
    sta

  4. kaalchakra United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Thank you once again, my dearest Ahmadi brothers and sisters, for certifying that I am not “extreme(ly) treacherous” and many other rather bad things for merely rejecting bhai mirza ghulam’s various claims and considering and pronouncing them completely fraudulent and unIslamic. You, of course, may believe them all, and pronounce them to be all true – “true” Islam or whatever you call such things – without my calling you “extreme(ly) treacherous” and all those equally bad things.

    Some of you want me to teach you the basics of Islam. Such honor is, naturally, appreciated. But brothers and sisters, teaching you Islam, or converting you to Islam – although an excellent possibility in every way – is not my objective. There is no dearth of resources for you, if you are sincere in your search, and you may start by requesting help from Muslims on this site itself.

    I do, however, offer all of you my Ahmadi brothers and sisters my highest, deepest, and broadest possible love, and wish each of you the very best.

  5. truthpower Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    uf that was so gracious of you kaal chakra bhai, for sending your broadest, widest, deepest and all the other possible synonyms of this word to describe the love you have for us…….i mean who can be a better religious enemy than you.we are lucky to have you , and so please accept unconditional love from my side as well,it may reciprocate partially the good feelings you have for us, and now the part where you say “”"****But Ahmadis do themselves recognize that Bhai Mirza Ghulam was a very sick man. And when confronted with some (very disgusting, to non-Ahmadis) details of bhai jaan’s life, tell the world that Prophet Muhmmad was the same”"”"***
    can you give me some good names of those lovely ahmadi bros and sis of mine who recognise mirza sahab as that.i should know about them as well, are they actually ahmadis? because its very hard for me to accept any ahmadi having these feelings for mirza sahib and yet being his followers!that sounds insane!if you ask me…..
    if mirza sahib was so disgusting , how come he attracted so many devoted followers from so many different sides of subcontinent, dont know what went wrong in their heads when they got so dumb and started following such a disgusting man.even though before accpeting mirza sahib, what i heard that all of them were very religiously inclined, spiritual people.did they get some sort of mental illness, that all these moral and religious people started following a disgusting man and that also taking so much criticism from the society.giving up their lives their belongings everything for Mirza sahib. what the hell was wrong with them, Kaal?if they actually had some illness then please give me some health certificates of those sahaba, so that i SHUT UP?
    if you can prove, that all those followers were sick and not feeling well, then yes you get my appreciation totally.i will not say another word to you.
    but if you dont, then its o.k , i am not saying you are sick and disgusting, being your ahmadi brother i am not saying anything ill and sick about.you are almost always so politically correct.and you never say anything insane wow, i wish i had the intellect like you.. im so sick and disgusting stupid me.
    when the most truthful pure and higly nobel person is right in front of me. you never lie, or speak false about anyone , kaAl, wowww BRAVO!

  6. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @kaal chakra
    @sta,
    yes now to what sta refferred and which is the most important issue that is yet to be discussed. that worthy, kaalchakra bhai, has honoured me with the label of non muslim.
    i would love to have an insight on some substantial evidence that he can bring to prove his point!
    because in my impartial petty knowledge, it is the holy Prophet Muhammed (s.a.w), who was the deciding body for setting up the criteria about who is muslim and who is not. and he himself said that who ever recited kalima, is a muslim.
    who ever believes in unity of ALLAH is a muslim.who ever believe in Hazrat Muhammad (s.a.w), as Khatamunabiyeen is a muslim.who ever practices all the basic obligations of islam is a muslim.who ever offers prays to Allah is a muslim.who ever fasts for the sake of pleasing ALLAH, is a muslim. who ever pays zakat in the way of ALLAH, is a muslim.
    ahmadis do all that, i dont know when Kaal Chakra bhai, started deciding about matters of islam, when he is practicing none of the above obligations himself, infact he has no idea about the above at all…

  7. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    sta ,kc,
    a very decent analogy, to describe the situation above is that:there is a hindu man, who believes in bhagwaan, who recites bhagwat geeta religiously and believes in das vedas as the holy books, he follows them all, and tries to practice all the hindu religious rites and obligation as a devoted hindu. but there are some hindus including k.c who believe that just because he doesnot believe in one of the Gods in hinduism, so he is not a hindu.now no matter whatever the hindu religious scholars say and whatever the governement decides, i think that doesnot matter at all!
    that pious hindu man knows in heart what he is!and most importantly God knows what he is, therefore, the opinion even what i give about him doesnot matter. it will actually be stupid for me as an ahmadi muslim to say that man is not a hindu.thats the most absurd judjement i would have ever given, if i had!but i dont, because thankfully my brain is still intact. ALHAMDULILAH.

  8. Kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    My dearest Ahmadi brothers and sisters

    I will make this my very last post on this thread, And I write it with my love for all you Ahmadis, which is taller than the tallest, wider than the widest, deeper than the deepest, and higher than the highest.

    Beloved brothers and sisters, you are all good people – we can be sure. I don’t think there is anything wrong with you. You have just gotten or born into a sad cult of deceit, untruth, misinformation through word play, mind control, and sometimes, cruel murder of others. As a well-wisher I should ask you to leave that cult immediately, but I know you are too zoned out to consider that suggestion with the seriousness with which it is offered.

    You know nothing about Islam and you know nothing about Hinduism or any other religion. What you know is your Ahmadi cult. Any Hindu who believes in Dus Vedas and does not believe in some one God is probably not a Hindu, and MOST Hindus would consider a believer in Dus Vedas and unbeliever in one of the Gods as quite possibly mad, or at least a little too slow to be a respectable Hindu.

    Can you understand that? I doubt it.

    Doesn’t matter. Stay safe and remain happy in your zone. My love will always be with you whether you believe in dus vedas or whether you think ‘last prophet’ means lusty prophet like one gentleman you know very well, or any other such thing. No skin off my nose.

    In return, I have told you my honest opinion which you should allow me to hold (if you had any morals – which is for your to discover): you are clueless, follow neither Islam nor Hinduism, and will NEVER EVER be accepted as Muslims because accepting you as Muslims will mean the death of Islam.

    I hope those opinions don’t sound certifications, or speaking like God etc to you, but then you follow Ahmadi religion, and none of us can speak for you. So simply follow your heart.

    Have a good, day, evening, night, or whatever suits you with my love for you which is taller than the tallest, wider than the widest, deeper than the deepest, and higher than the highest.

  9. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    KAALCHAKRA,
    what ever rubbish you have written above, in the end you lost kaal bhai, otherwise why run like that, good luck, takecare and ~~~~~~~WHATEVER~~~~~

  10. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Mirjai imposters and heretics

    .
    Kaalchakra is NOT a sick man…you all are. KC spoke the truth which is evidently indigestible for your rotten digestive and nervous system, hence you carped over him like ugly vultures. Yes, KC is right in that you cannot compare a rogue faux frofet, admittedly a sick and impotent man who died in the toilet after losing his own prophesy. Prophet Muhammad is revered by one and all as Muslims are told to revere all deities and beliefs of other faiths. Quran clearly states [” to you your (religion) me mine”…..wtf is this mirjai lot on to??? The more they cry the more they will get kicked in their crotches not only by Muslims but Hindus, Christians, Sikhs and others.

    shame on mirjai liars, cheats, imposters, heretics and belligerent lot of most corrupt molvi mentality of all!!

  11. truth power Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    akb, where were you , feeling sick, seeing you after a very long time, did Gods wrath actually came on you , well if yes dont be shy be a man and tell us all… come on, the audience deserves truth, the time for unreasonable and absurd debates from you guys is over, we all deserve the “”"TRUTH”"”, come on be a man…

  12. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ truth paw
    .

    Well, since you have asked me I must hasten to end your curiosity by telling you that I was having very good time with my Mirjai galfriend.
    Honestly, the pleasure she gives is astounding….and I like it better than wasting my time here kicking the badasses here on this forum.
    My mirjai galfriend is prepared to convert to Islam and says Mirja Ghulla was nothing but a stooge planted by the colonial british and who played with words and etymology to screw differnt faiths and above all Muslims so that the could win reward for his evil deed from his british masters,
    according to her the mirjai’s are worse than deobandi mullahs and force on her such conditions which are not only inhuman but insult to women. consequently she wants to repent and enter my ‘fold’. No way i can refuse her! She is soooo sexy and co operative in bed!!

  13. parliament certified muslim United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    I hereby address the following non-Muslims debating here:
    1) Mahee
    2) AKB
    3) Kaalchakra
    I do not recognize you as Muslims because you can not produce the certificate of Islam issued by the Parliament of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and endorsed by the Mumlikat al Saudia al Arabia al Islamia al Wahabia al Salafia.

    Mahee !! You are a non-Muslim because you have admitted that you are an Ahmadi/Qadiani/Mirzai. And for your information, you people were declared non-Muslims in 1974 by Hazrat Z. A. Bhutto Shaheed, by means of a constitutional amendment, backed and supported by His Holy Majesty the King of Mumlikat al Saudia al Arabia al Islamia al Wahabia al Salafia.

    AKB !! I have judged you a non-Muslim for 2 reasons. 1) Your name is “AKB”, which is an Arabic word, meaning “backside”. No Muslim will ever adopt such a vulgar name. 2) You always seem to be in agreement with Kaalchakra.

  14. kaalchakra United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Brother PCM

    You have the perfect, complete, unabridged right to judge us all non-Muslims, just as the Pakistani state – a representative of Pakistani people – has a right to declare Ahmadis to be non-Muslims and to ensure that Ahmadis do not pose as followers of Islam in a country that attempts to base itself in the great religion of Islam. Ahmadis are ALWAYS MOST WELCOME to abandon any and all associations with Ahamdism, Ahmadi figures, personalities, ideas, and tactics; accept Islam, and then call themselves as Muslims. Islam is a universal idea and does not discriminate among people that way.

    I hope that removes your perennial confusion, finally, my certified brother :)

  15. kaalchakra United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Certified Brother, also, Islam clearly tells us that a non-believer in Islam, who is honest about his non-belief in Islam, is by many orders of magnitude, better than a munafiq, that is, an Ahmadi who claims to follow Islam.

    This focus on religious honesty is something that you and I need to admire. Please don’t blame AKB or any other Muslim for it.

  16. parliament certified muslim United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Kaalchakra

    Then why are you posing to be a Muslim ? And unlike you Ahmadis are hardened to the core; no matter how much we thrash them in Pakistan they refuse to repent and give up “Islam”.

  17. kaalchakra United States Safari  Android 4.0.4 LG-MS770 Build/IMM76I says:

    Certified Brother, I hope I have never hidden that I am not a Muslim (yet).
    If my Ahmadi brothers and sisters are the hardened ones, good for them if that is what they want. They have all my love. Because of my love for them I gently point out the many and extreme absurdities of their thought.

  18. truth power Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    kaal chakra,
    reeallly, while gently pointing out the extreme absurdities in ahmadi thought, you completely forget the outrageous absurdities in your thought! and not to mention your highly incoherent argument about proving why ahmadis are not muslims! you are non believer of islam and by so many means better than me!please honourable nonbeliver of islam, throw some light on “”WHY AHMADIS ARE NOT MUSLIMS” cut the rubbish talk ,and come to the point! by no means is the pakistani govt the deciding body on matters of faith, so come up with something sensible!!!

  19. kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Dearest Ahmadi Brother

    Pakistani government is the deciding body for itself, not for you. So long as it can, it will decide. When you dear Ahmadis form Pakistan’s government (or the New World Government Under Ahmadis – as envisaged by your most beloved and most respected Khalifas), you can un-decide, or decide as you please, for yourselves and for others.

    Nothing at all could be fairer, or more reasonable.

  20. parliament certified muslim United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @kaalchakra

    {{Brother PCM You have the perfect, complete, unabridged right to judge us all non-Muslims}}

    Not good enough. My right to judge you all “non-Muslims” is also “unchallengeable”, which you should also acknowledge.

  21. truth power Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    kaalchakra,
    i would be happy when you seriously let me know those serious issues that bother you about ahmadism!if i can somehow give some convincing answers it will help me become better!i am not forcing you into ahmadism in any way!i just want to know what seriously bothers you!i just want clear some air between us!please let me know atleast know what has provoked so much hatred in your mind about ahmadism!
    have a good day..

  22. Khan United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @parliament certified muslim
    .
    The following dialogue, reported by a parliament-certified Muslim, took place between two parliament-certified Muslims on top of a bridge:
    .
    He said, “Nobody loves me.”
    I said, “Allah loves you. Do you believe in Allah?”
    He said, “Yes, of course.”
    I said, “Are you a Muslim or a non-Muslim?”
    He said, “Muslim.”
    I said, “Me, too! Shia or Sunni?”
    He said, “Sunni.”
    I said, “Me, too! What mazhab?”
    He said, “Hanafi.”
    I said, “Me, too! Deobandi or Barelvi?”
    He said, “Barelvi.”
    I said, “Me too! Tanzeehi or Tafkeeri?”
    He said, “Tanzeehi.”
    I said, “Me, too! Tanzeehi Azmati or Tanzeehi Farhati?”
    He said, “Tanzeehi Farhati.”
    I said, “Me, too! Tanzeehi Farhati Jamia-tul-Uloom Ajmer, or Tanzeehi Farhati Jamia-tul-Noor Mewat?”
    He said, “Tanzeehi Farhati Jamia tul Noor Mewat.”
    I said, “Go to hell, kaafir!” and pushed him off the bridge.

  23. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    any Muslim is a heretic and perhaps a kafir if he alters or deviates from the fundamental tenets of Islam. Sects may differ in secondary matters of faith but Mirzai’s hit at the very root of Islam, hence they are pucca kafirs!!
    for more info go to http://www.irshad.com

  24. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    Mirzai’s declare ALL Muslims as Kafirs…..how funny!!
    They raised a new frofet from Qadian, Indian Punjab…how crazy!!
    Mirzai’s condemned the beliefs of Muslims, Hindu’s and Christians and all other relgions……how stupid!
    Mirzai’s imitate the scriptures and practices of Muslims….how outrageous!!
    Mirzai’s lent themselves as slaves of the colonial British and tried to frustrate the struggle of Independence as begun by Muslims and Hindus alike and then their molvi leader Mirza Ghulla asked for rewards from the British ….how shameful!!
    Mirzai’s ARE pucca Kafirs…no doubt about it.

  25. mahee United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    akb,
    is a pucca musalman for sure, all this hatred and intolerance he spreads.all this abuse he renders world with!he is the real muslaman,country should be proud of him!he is the leader of all shia killings in the country because they are semi muslims and have no right to live on earth like kaafir qadiyaniis.thats exactly what was written in quran,according to akb, to kill every non muslim!convert their women forcibly!
    Mirzai’s imitate the scriptures and practices of Muslims….how outrageous!oh my god!how outrageous it is to follow scriptures of islam.it is the worst thing for a pucca musalman to see,his religion being followed by kaafirs.
    mirza ghulam ahmed being the first muslim to invite british queen towards islam!how dare he right akb.either queen is so pathetic that she couldnt be called towards islam or either mirza sahab is!nonetheless islam is not for any pathetics,it is just the forte of pucca musalmans like akb.
    mirzais started the struggle for independence of kashmiri muslims from hindu kings tyrranical rule!how the hell did they dare those bloody kaafirs.right AKB(pucca muslaman),the pure race is yours exterminate all others make new history!take the glory away from hitler!
    only you and just you deserve it.you have more hatred than hitler could ever have!

  26. mahee United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    akb,
    “” Mirzai’s hit at the very root of Islam, hence they are pucca kafirs!!”"
    mirzai preaching of tolerance and peaceful coexistence.love for all.AND sincere devotion for rehmatul lil alameen Hazrat Muhammad (saw) is exactly what shakes the core root of islam!believing in ALLAH and praying five times a day to him is exactly what shakes the root of islam.
    you are a pucca musalman teach me the pucca islam of yours…

  27. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ Muhee

    If you have nothing to say then just keep your mouth shut. I only stated what you believe. You declare all Muslmims other than Mirjai’s as kafirs. Right? You declare Mirja Ghulla as another form of Prophet Muhammd, Rama Krishna, Jesus etc ..right?? You were declared kafirs by the constitution of Pakistan and many othr countries ratified its declaration as true. right? You disregard jihad as holy war for Muslims. right?? you established a caliphate of your own from Punjab molvis. right? You a negligible handful of deviates want to rule over the entire Umma. Right? You imitate the scriptures and practices of Muslims. Right?? so with admittedly so many deviations which none other sect of Muslims can digest (not even the Hindus respect you for your disloyalty to Muslims) how can you say I abused the Mirjai’s??
    Offering Namaz etc is NOT the only way to being a good Musalmaan. You relish in your fake piety and that won’t serve your vile ends. Peace is preached by all religions , you are no special.

  28. Dark Knight Pakistan Safari iPad says:

    @AKB (February 19, 2013 at 2:28 am)
    //…Offering Namaz etc is NOT the only way to being a good Musalmaan…//
    True. You too, might well be offering namaz, but of course, your language, your decency and your manners, remind us of anything but a “good Muslim”.
    //…You relish in your fake piety and that won’t serve your vile ends…//
    Ahmadis, you may like to note, do not claim piety. They only claim that the prophecy made by Hazrat Muhammad [saw] regarding the promised advent of Imam Mahdi, has been fulfilled.
    //…Peace is preached by all religions , you are no special…//
    Peace, is indeed, preached by all religions, because all religions were revealed by God. And anyway, nobody is claiming to be special here. Stop throwing fits please.

  29. Khan United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    @AKB

    Mirzai’s declare ALL Muslims as Kafirs…..how funny!!

    Ahmadis believe that anyone who calls himself a “Muslim”, is unquestionably a “Muslim”. Ahmadis believe that, in terms of religious identity. it is not for any mortal to declare anyone anything that he himself does not profess. Nothing funny.

    They raised a new frofet from Qadian, Indian Punjab…how crazy!!

    According to the Ahmadis, it was God, and not the Ahmadis, who raised the Promised Mahdi in Qadian. Nothing crazy.

    Mirzai’s condemned the beliefs of Muslims, Hindu’s and Christians and all other relgions……how stupid!

    Ahmadis believe that there is a need for reform in all religious denominations, including the denominations of Muslims. Ahmadis believe that there is also a need for a revival of the original true revealed teachings of all revealed religions. This is not stupid.

    Mirzai’s imitate the scriptures and practices of Muslims….how outrageous!!

    Ahmadis believe that all revealed books were revealed by the same One True God, and all continue to contain words of wisdom. However, Ahmadis also believe that among all the revealed scriptures of God, it is only the Quran whose text remains perfectly preserved and unaltered.

    Mirzai’s lent themselves as slaves of the colonial British and tried to frustrate the struggle of Independence as begun by Muslims and Hindus alike and then their molvi leader Mirza Ghulla asked for rewards from the British ….how shameful!!

    Ahmadis believe that Islam requires its followers to be law-abiding and peaceful and to be obedient towards the government in worldly matters.

    Mirzai’s ARE pucca Kafirs…no doubt about it.

    Ahmadis are true Muslims and true believers. No doubt about it.

  30. ExWho India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    AKB received the typical pakistani indoctrination of downgrading and hating non-muslims and non-sunnis. There is no way you can talk to him on the basis of reason and facts. AKB represents the downfall of islam and Pakistan. And it will become worse in days and years to come.

  31. AKB Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ Khan
    I didn’t know you were a liar as well. Read the statements printed in the writings of your faux frofet and his socalled caliphs or the quotations from them cited with reference in the judgement of SC Pakistan and elsewhere,,,,,,,how can you deny the declarations of the rogues you follow unless you learnt to lie from them??
    go to http://www.irshad.com for evidence if you can’t find the outrageous remarks of your fake ‘spearheads’ …..this will remove the ignorance you are in.

  32. AKB Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ Khan and other Mirzai’s

    A Muslim is NOT a Muslim if his conduct disapproves the teachings of his faith. For example, a pig eater cannot be a Muslim, why shouldn’t another Muslim (or even a Hindu or Christian) judge that by the other’s conduct?? A deviate from the fundamental beliefs of Islam is NOT a Muslim; any person who declares others as kafirs except him is NOT a Muslim; a urine drinker is NOT a Muslim, a person is NOT a Muslim if he eats or drinks anything forbidden by the Quran,,,so easy to judge!
    While living in a Muslim majority country it is so easy to catch a deviate Muslim whose conduct does what the Quran and Sunnah forbid him to do.
    Even a non Muslim can judge a Muslim from a non Muslim by his very conduct anywhere in the world. this is why the Mirjai’s are looked down upon by Hindus and Christians as traitors and heretics ,,,who tried to induct innovations and ulterior modifications in the fundamental beliefs of Muslim faith to which ALL Muslims except the Mirzai’s adhere to.

  33. AKB Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @
    Dark Knight

    You are just a pee-puking thumb sucking brat!

    .
    Not only all religions preach peace but even the atheist implore peace.
    There is NO such thing as Imam Mehdi……if he has appeared then let ALL humans see it—Muslims, Hindus, Jews and Isaees and ALL!
    As you say he has arrived what the heck is he doing?? Nothing!

  34. AKB Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ KHAN ET ALL MIRJAI’S ….

    READ THIS AND REFRAIN FROM FALSEHOOD AND HOODWINKING INNOCENT PEOPLE..!!
    .
    QUOTES FROM MIRJAI SATANS!
    .

    QADIANI KHALIFA 2 MIRZA MAHMUD AHMAD AND HIS STOOGES QUOTES WITH REFERNCES AND PAGE NUMBERS:
    .
    “It. is our obligation that we do not consider non-ahmadis as muslims and do not pray behind them, because for us they have rejected one prophet (Mirza Ghulam) of God. This is a religious matter and no one has any right to do anything in it.”
    (Anwar-e-Khilafat, by Mirza Mahmood, Khalifa 2, p.90)

    “All muslims who are included in the initiation of Maseeh Mowood, even if they have not heard the name of Maseeh Mowood, they are Kafir and out of the fold of Islam. I admit that these are my beliefs.”
    (Aina-e-Sadaqat, by Mirza Mahmood, 2nd Khalifa, p.35)

    “Every one who accepts Moses but not Eisa or accepts Eisa but not Mohammad or accepts Mohammad but not Maseeh Mowood, he is not only Kafir but a hardened Kafir and is out of the fold of Islam.
    (Kalimat-alFasl by Mirza Basheer Ahmad s/o Mirza Ghulam p.110)

    Question: “Is it permitted to say May God Bless the departed soul, forgive him and send him to Paradise for a person who was not included in Ahmadiyyat?”
    Answer: “The KUFR of non-Ahmadis is proven by evident signs and it is not permitted to ask for forgiveness for non-believers (KUFFAR).”
    (Al-Fazl Qadian vol.8, No. 59, 7th Feb 1921)

    “Non-Ahmadis are the disbelievers therefore their funeral prayers should not be offered, but if an infant of non-ahmadi dies, why should we not pray his funaral prayer, he is not a disbeliever of Maseeh Mowood? I ask the inquirer, that if this is true than why don’t we offer funeral prayer of a Hindu or a Christian child? How many people offer their funeral prayer?” (Anwar-e-Khilafat, Mirza Mahmood, 2nd Khalifa, p.93)

    “It is the order of Hazrat Maseeh Mowood and firm order that no ahmadi should give his daughter to non-ahmadi. It is obligatory on every ahmadi to carry it out….. there is great loss in it, besides this marriage is not permitted.”
    (Barakat-e-Khilafat by Mirza Mehmood p.73)

    “Our prayers are separate from Non-ahmadis, it is forbidden to give our girls to them, we are stopped to offer their funeral prayers. Now what is left that we can participate with them? There are only two kinds of relations – religious and worldly. For religious relations, it is the gathering for prayers and for worldly relations, it is the marriage and both are forbidden for us.”
    (Mirza Basheer Ahmad, Kalimat alFasl p.169)

    “The point is now quite clear. If it is ‘Kufr’ (infedility) to deny the
    Gracious Prophet (Muhammad pbuh), it must also be ‘Kufr’ to deny the Promised Messiah, because the Promised Messiah is in no way a separate being from the Gracious Prophet; rather he is the same (Muhammad incarnate). If anyone is not deemed a Kafir for denying the Promised Messiah, then anyone else who denies the Gracious Prophet also cannot be considered a Kafir. How is it possible that denying him in his first birth as Prophet should be regarded as Kufr, but denying him in his (reincarnated) second birth as prophet should not be regarded as Kufr, when, as claimed by the Promised Messiah, his (Mirza’s birth as Muhammad incarnate) spiritual attainment is stronger, complete and severe.”
    (Kalimatul Fasl, pages 146-147, as cited in the Review of Religions, dated March-April 1915)

    “Any person who believes in Moses but does not believe in Christ, or believes in Christ but does not believe in Muhammad, or believes in Muhammad but does not believe in the Promised Messiah, is not only a Kafir, but a ‘pakka’ (confirmed) Kafir, and (he is) out of the fold of Islam.”
    (Kalimatul Fasl, page 110, by Mirza Bashir Ahmad, M.A.)

    “All such Muslims who did not swear allegiance to the promised Masih (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian), even though they did not hear the name of the Promised Masih, are Kafir and debarred from the fold of Islam.”
    (Aiena-e-Sadaqat, page 35, by Mirza Mahmud Ahmad).

  35. AKB Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    MORE……

    ., MIRJA gHULLA OF QADIAN wrote in a letter to Abdul Hakeem Khan that all Muslims who dont accept his (MGAQ) message are Kafir, irregardless if they have heard his (MGAQ) name or not.

    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=1jnj9w&s=7

  36. Khan United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @AKB
    Six comments in a row. Do you talk to yourself? Not that I’m surprised. I mean, what else can we expect from a mentally handicapped person. Look! we’re not going to get uptight but you have already started throwing fits. Please don’t expect any sane and serious-minded person to respond to your last six consecutive idiotic comments. Questions or even objections coming from a sane person, always deserve a response. But issues raised by mentally sick people, deserve only to be ignored. You are a mentally sick person. You need sympathy, and treatment of course.

  37. parliament-certified muslim United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Khan

    The following dialogue, reported by a parliament-certified Muslim, took place between two parliament-certified Muslims on top of a bridge:
    .
    He said, “Nobody loves me.”
    I said, “Allah loves you. Do you believe in Allah?”
    He said, “Yes, of course.”
    I said, “Are you a Muslim or a non-Muslim?”
    He said, “Muslim.”
    I said, “Me, too! Shia or Sunni?”
    He said, “Sunni.”
    I said, “Me, too! What mazhab?”
    He said, “Hanafi.”
    I said, “Me, too! Deobandi or Barelvi?”
    He said, “Barelvi.”
    I said, “Me too! Tanzeehi or Tafkeeri?”
    He said, “Tanzeehi.”
    I said, “Me, too! Tanzeehi Azmati or Tanzeehi Farhati?”
    He said, “Tanzeehi Farhati.”
    I said, “Me, too! Tanzeehi Farhati Jamia-tul-Uloom Ajmer, or Tanzeehi Farhati Jamia-tul-Noor Mewat?”
    He said, “Tanzeehi Farhati Jamia tul Noor Mewat.”
    I said, “Go to hell, kaafir!” and pushed him off the bridge.

    So, what’s the joke? What’s so funny? If you ask me, both these guys who were on the bridge should have been pushed off the bridge, because both were Barelvis. Barelvis might be Parliament-certified Muslims in Pakistan, but that’s not good enough. You have to be both: a certified Muslim certified by the parliament and constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and certified as a Muslim by the Islamic Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The Barelvis are considered kafirs by the true Wahabi ulema of Saudi Arabia.

  38. AKB Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @PCM

    Am in fact ‘promoting’ this ancient and redundant thread started by YLH.
    and for that I have to keep on posting something relevant so as not to make the dangling thread wilt.
    .
    You referred to enmity between some other sects of Muslims but you overlooked the fact that NONE of the Muslim sects believes in you—ie Mirza Ghulla of Qadian’s novel deviation. ALL sects agree on the ‘fundamental tenets’ Of Islam, in particular the finality of prophethood of Prophet Muhammad, which only you, the Mirjai’s deny.
    This is the basic difference you are condemned by more than One Billion Muslims all over the world. Even the Hindu’s and Christians take you as traitors of your faith….and condemn you everywhere.
    .
    Unfortunately, the reasons given by Mirja Ghulla to assert his frofethood are baseless and frivolous, and it’s that dogma which makes you outcast and condemned forever.

  39. Khizer Pasha United Arab Emirates Google Chrome Windows says:

    I think Albert Einstein must have come across people like some of the commentators here that made him conclude “I love Humanity but I hate humans”. AKB, kya bolti too?

  40. AKB Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ Khizer Pasha

    .
    mein kia boloon
    Aatee ka khandala!!

    .

    yar ye mirzai itne kuttay kion hote hein??

  41. mahee United States Google Chrome  Nexus 7 Build/JDQ39) AppleWebKit/537.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/25.0.1364.123 Safari/537.22 says:

    Akb, bhai basic difference KO Rona choro,yeh btao is this fair to kill ahmadis and Christians in the name of Islam.you said all religions are following the message of peace and promoting it,then why the hell is it just yours khatmenabuwat ( in short khatme insaniyat) busy in spreading intolerance and hate, haven’t they ever recited Quran with translation , is what written in surah kaafiroon not worth following for them,was Allah swt joking with Holy prophet saw , haan !!! Ahmadis have been exemplary students of whichever country they live in, even Pakistan.where terrorist organizations like lashkarejhangvi ( in short lashkare wehshi darindgi) has shed blood of so many of kalma reciters ,what to talk of the poor non kalima reciters! You and the organizations like khat me insaniyat, and lashkare wehshi darindgi have defamed my beloved religion Islam, you have defamed the name of my beloved prophet Muhammed saw, you have invoked the curse of the rehman and raheem God , he must be loathing at you right now,more then me!

  42. mahee United States Google Chrome  Nexus 7 Build/JDQ39) AppleWebKit/537.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/25.0.1364.123 Safari/537.22 says:

    Ahmadis are not being condemned by anyone,as much as your parliament certified Islam, politician supported terrorist islamic organizations are, gore loving frustrated mullahs are,and biggotted psychotic religious fundos are.all the christian countries are providing amnesty to the ahmadi victims of violence of Pakistan.don’t talk bulls crap.know your facts before getting excited and spreading the same misguidance your psychotic religious leaders are spreading!!Hindus are not really falling in love with your religious beliefs of converting their women forcibly torturing Hindus, burn their houses like crazy mobs! Not even one Ahmadi musalman would ever do that!to him prophet Muhammed name matters more than you.with all due respect what good have you ever done to redeem the blessed sunnah of Muhammed except crying for his last hood! This blessed man of God ,promised Messiah of God has done more to reignite the spirit of Muhammed saw, by reinforcing the real Islam of Muhammed which you and lashkare darindgi brigade is busy maligning.have you thought how putrid the thought Islam and blasphemy has become because of you to nonbelievers. What Allah is this barbaric to be glad by these acts of barbarism and heinous bloodshed! Ask yourself before any of your maulana tariq jameel and co,is this Islam the real one! Is this the sunnah we were asked to follow.we needed a messiah, and we are lucky to have him! We needed his reiteration.we needed the real Islam.we are mislead without him!misguidance and corruption in Islam is so widespread now that it has enfolded The guardians of holy kabbah who are renowned for biggottry.so we need guidance again.and we have this beacon of light right in front of us.

  43. arkmb Pakistan Safari Mac OS says:

    تہران (نیوز ڈیسک)پاکستان میں شیعہ مسلمانوں کے خلاف تشدد کے بڑھتے ہوئے واقعات پر باقاعدہ احتجاج ریکارڈ کرانے کے لیے ایرانی پارلیمنٹ ’مجلس‘ پاکستانی سفیرکو طلب کر رہی ہے۔
    مجلس کی قومی سلامتی اور خارجہ امور کمیٹی کے ترجمان سید حسین نقوی حسینی نے تہران میں پاکستانی سفیر خالد عزیز بابر کو عنقریب طلب کیے جانے کی تصدیق کرتے ہوئے کہاکہ ایرانی اراکین پارلیمان پاکستان میں شیعہ مسلمانوں کے قتل عام کے خلاف احتجاجی بیان بھی جاری کرینگے۔
    ایران کے سرکاری ’پریس ٹی وی‘ سے بات کرتے ہوئے انہوں نے بتایا کہ ارکان مجلس پر مشتمل ایک وفد پاکستان کو دورہ بھی کرے گا، جس میں وہ دہشت گردی کا شکار خاندانوں اور حکومتی اہلکاروں سے ملاقاتیں کرے گا۔ ’ہمارا حکومت پاکستان سے مطالبہ ہوگا کہ قاتلوں کو گرفتار کر کے سزائیں دی جائیں اور شیعہ مسلمانوں کے جان ومال کے تحفظ کا فول پروف انتظام کیا جائے۔‘
    سنیچر کو تہران اور قم کے تمام مدارس پاکستان میں شیعہ مسلمانوں کے قتل کے خلاف احتجاجاً بند رہے جبکہ ان کے اساتذہ اور طلباء نے احتجاجی مظاہرے کیے۔ مظاہرین نے پاکستان میں شیعہ ’قتل عام‘ پر بین الاقوامی تنظیموں کی خاموشی کا مجرمانہ قرار دیا۔ان کا کہنا تھا کہ پاکستان میں شیعہ مخالف دہشت گردوں کو امریکہ اور اسرائیل کی مدد حاصل ہے۔ تہران میں مظاہرین کی قیادت مجلس علماء کے سربراہ آیت اللہ محمد رضا مہدوی کانی نے کی۔
    پاکستان میں شیعہ تنظیموں کا کہنا ہے کہ ملک میں شیعہ مسلمانوں کی نسل کشی کی جا رہی اور ریاست خاموش تماشائی بنی ہوئی ہے۔ فاٹا میں کرم ایجنسی میں دوہزار سات سے شیعہ مسلمانوں کے لیے عرصہ حیات تنگ کیا جا رہا ہے اور اب یہی سلسلہ کوئٹہ، کراچی اور ملک کے دوسرے حصوں میں پھیلتا جا رہا ہے۔
    کوئٹہ میں دو ماہ کے اندردو مرتبہ ہزارہ شیعہ کمیونٹی کو دہشتگردی کا سامنا کرنا پڑا جبکہ کچھ روز قبل کراچی میں بھی شیعہ اکثریتی آبادی والے علاقے عباس ٹاؤن کو دہشت گردوں نے نشانہ بنایا۔ ان تیں واقعات میں ہلاک ہونے والوں کی تعداد اڑھائی سو کے لگ بھگ ہے جبکہ گزشتہ سال چار سو سے زائد شیعہ

  44. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome  Nexus 7 Build/JDQ39) AppleWebKit/537.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/25.0.1364.123 Safari/537.22 says:

    Akb,
    This is just very lame and absurd of you to blame ahmadis for something which you yourself are legitimatly doing.if ahmadis do not accept non believers of promised messiah hazrat Mirza ghulam Ahmed qadiani there’s a very valid reason for it!Hazrat Mirza ghulam Ahmed was a prophet of God. His coming was holy!he was true lover hazrat Muhammed saw,he was **fanafir rasool**!he was sent to spread enlightenment again.sent to clarify some misconceptions.reiterate the spirit of Islam in our soul.to renounce the malpractices of shirk which has come in enormous amounts in the believers with the passage of time! He came to destroy the shrines of demigods which us Muslims have created ourselves as adjunct for our Islam.
    He came as a prophet.he was sent by Allah, he was holy.his teachings are from direct commands of Allah .the fuullfillment of his prophecies word by word by Allah to prove his being holy was a real happening and no joke.
    So yes,those who heard his message and ignored it are not Muslims. But saying this ,does not mean that ahmadis should kill non ahmadis or make their life miserable! This is exactly what promissed messiah has engaged in direct compliance with his beloved Muhammad saw.instead ahmadis practice tolerance love for all and make themselves a role model as devotees of Muhammed saw for non believers to be attracted.to impress non believers.to spread love and peace! You have spread enough meaningless hatred now go save your religion instead of last hood. The real glory of Muhammed is in peace and amnesty for all,which us ahmadis know but parliament certified Muslim and akb doesn’t.

  45. mahee United Kingdom Google Chrome  Nexus 7 Build/JDQ39) AppleWebKit/537.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/25.0.1364.123 Safari/537.22 says:

    * ^3rd para fifth line, * engaged incorrect , correction : negated*

  46. truthpower United Kingdom Google Chrome  Nexus 7 Build/JDQ39) AppleWebKit/537.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/25.0.1364.123 Safari/537.22 says:

    Mahee,
    Adding further relevance to the point above,I would say promised messiah has no where claimed the arrival of new shariat.unlike all the rest of false prophets. So stop comparing him to those. He never claimed bringing of a new Islam.he never promoted himself over hazrat Muhammed saw .unlike all the rest of false prophets.his entire life mission was to reiterate the true status of Holy Prophet saw.to glorify his name. Where in his literature do you find anything against hazrat Muhammed saw or Islam.unlike all the rest of false prophets! He was a true and unconditional devotee of Hazrat Muhammed saw.its for a fact that true love of Muhammed saw can exactly bless you with honour more than you can imagine.this is the sincere most, rather this should be the sincere most belief of a true Muslim. The real sirate mustaqeem is indeed in following with devotion Hazrat Muhammed Saw, so much blessed and prolific this path is that it can definitely exalt you with status of being a subservient prophet to Hazrat Muhammed saw if you reach the top most extreme of that love and devotion.if only your eyes could see this lively sights of a living God.who still believes in his people, who hasn’t lost hope yet.coming of messiah is a positive sign.he still loves his creation,that he is sending a messenger to guide and clarify. If only you are willing to open your shutoff brains.

  47. Syed United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @AKB (March 10, 2013 at 12:27 am)
    .

    //…ye mirzai itne kuttay kion hote hein??…//

    .

    Mian, baat ye hai ke Mirzai aap ke samney aainey utthae kharhey hain. Wo sirf itna chahtey hain ke kissi tarha aap ko aap ka chehra-e-mubarak, aik baar dikha dein. Aap jab apney chehray ke samney, unn ke utthae huwe aainon mein daikhtey hain, to aap ko unn aainon mein kuttay dikhai daitey hain. Phir aap intihai masoomiat se poochtey hain ke “..ye mirzai itne kuttay kion hote hein??..”.

  48. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @Syed

    kis ne kaha ke tum kafir doosraon ke aagay aaina uthaO?? mian aainay mein perhle apni makrooh shakl dekho….aur khuda se daro. Mirja Ghulla sandaas mein mar gaya ab tu us kee jaan chod do!

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