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Pak Tea House » Uncategorized » Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?

Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?

By Yasser Latif Hamdani

(Written exclusively for PakTeaHouse. Please give credit when crossposting)

The poison of ignorance and extremism that Bhutto and General Zia jointly fathered during their dictatorial regimes has fully indoctrinated even those who otherwise describe themselves as educated.

This week the Large Hadron Collider at the CERN inched closer to the discovery of Higgs Boson or the God Particle as it were. In this extraordinary story of human achievement,  Dr. Abdus Salam is a key player who put Pakistan on the map of theoretical physics. In his homeland though, a group of self-styled champions of Islam have started a posthumous campaign of scurrilous slander claiming that Dr. Salam was giving out nuclear secrets. Forget that even a confirmed bigot like General Zia  held a ceremony in our only nobel prize winner’s honour or that no one ever accused Dr. Salam of any such thing; in Pakistan to be a hero you have to actually transfer technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea.

Now consider the case of 11 year old Sitara Akbar. Every Pakistani and his mother in law are citing her as a crowning national achievement, blissfully oblivious of the fact that she is an Ahmadi. To them her religion is suddenly unimportant or irrelevant or is it? How many Sitara Akbars have been expelled from our schools for being Ahmadi? How many productive citizens of this republic have been killed and maimed for believing differently?

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s National Assembly imagined itself the Islamic equivalent of the Council of Nicea. Just as that ancient bastion of Christian orthodoxy excommunicated unitarian Christians for not believing in the trinity of the father, son and the holy ghost, the National Assembly saw it fit to – primarily at the instigation of the Prime Minister and his law minister- declare an entire sect non-Muslim. Just like the post hoc elevation of the principle of trinity at Nicea, Pakistan’s National Assembly located Islam in the principle of the finality of Prophethood.

This act of our sovereign legislature stood in sharp contrast to the view of this nation’s founding father. On 5 May, 1944, in response to demands of the orthodox vis a vis Ahmadis, Jinnah made it absolutely clear that anyone who professes to be a Muslim is a Muslim and welcome in the Muslim League and that those who were raising the issue were trying to divide the Muslims. Here I am forced to say that I am inclined to accept Jinnah’s view and reject the collective wisdom of our sovereign legislature. There are several reasons which may be cited in this regard:

  1. First and foremost Pakistan is bound by the United Nations’ charter. Therefore Pakistan is bound to ensure freedom of religion for all its citizens and freedom of religion means freedom of religion according to the definition of the subject of the said freedom.
  2. Identity is subjective not objective. The state of Pakistan or any other state cannot tell an Ahmadi that he is not a Muslim because it is intrinsic to the faith of an Ahmadi.  This is an inviolable, inalienable right as part of right to life which every state in the world is bound to protect. If Ahmadis say they are Muslims they ought to be accepted as such.
  3. Pakistan is a signatory to the ICCPR and without reservations since June 2011. Therefore every piece of legislation that discriminates against Ahmadis or forces a label upon them is ultra vires the ICCPR.
  4. The Islamic argument: According to the Holy Prophet (PBUH) anyone who utters the Kalima Shahadah is a Muslim. None of the Kalimas, including the Primary Kalima Shahadah contains any reference to the principle of the finality of Prophethood as understood by the Muslim majority today.
  5. Finally because by conduct and promise, Pakistani state is estopped from claiming otherwise. In 1947, Pakistan laid claim to Qadian as a Muslim holy place, a counter-blast to Sikh claims on Nankana Sahib and Hassan Abdal.  Similarly in 1946 elections which is the basic referendum on the question of Pakistan, Ahmadi votes were instrumental in getting Muslims Pakistan. These are undeniable facts of history.

 

Therefore- fully aware of the stigma attached to this statement- I concur with Quaid-e-Azam Mahomed Ali Jinnah, thefounding father of Pakistan that Ahmadis are Muslims, if they say they are Muslims and no one, not even the sovereign legislature, has the right to say otherwise.

 




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3,213 Responses to "Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?"

  1. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ syed mayyat @ mahee tabahi

    I almost agree with truthpower and rest my point here. First settle your score with him and then challenge this ”heavy weight’ Mussalman!

  2. truth power United States Google Chrome  Nexus 7 Build/JDQ39) AppleWebKit/537.22 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/25.0.1364.123 Safari/537.22 says:

    Akb,
    Let’s settle our scores here.if you agree with my points above, then to hell with mahee.you should realize I’m trying to explain the great posture of hazrat Mirza ghulam Ahmed.and how meaningless and absurd comparing him with false prophets is. He was a truely holy man akb sahab.you could never in your previous posts prove his death sight but you remain to chose blind foolishness over logic.
    Also,before calling yourself heavy weight musalmaan and others kutta, think of becoming a heavy weight insaan first.you must have a mehraab on your head,but of what good it is when it keeps spreading hatred and insult and abuse.a little humanity can solve alot of issues which currently are destroying pakistan.not that i belive every sunni muslim is lashkare jhangvi there are certainly many good ones and some bad ones.
    You are not really religiously obligated to keep writing shit on this page.that doesn’t really make you the heavy weight musalman.join the ahmaddiya humanity first force help humanity.spread love and peace.meet Ahmadi people see for yourself how bad of a Muslims they are.how badly they are taking name of hazrat Muhammed saw.and how badly passionate they are to displease god….. Till then! Tchuss

  3. cheenee United Kingdom Safari Unknow Os says:

    Akb,
    Why are u wasting your time on satan infested brains? If they do not understand that Prophet Muhammad (saw) was the last prophet and messenger, stated so many times by the prophet Himself leave them alone they will not understand *alas Allah is punishing them !.

  4. USMAN United States Opera Mini Unknow Os says:

    First of all, i like to stress on the defination of muslim: any one who believes in unity and oneness of Allah and believes as prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as seal of prophet hood, and believes in the gist of articles of faith. If ahmedis do this, they are muslim. If not, they are kafirs, no matter what they claim. However, they have same rights as possessed by any human. Discriminatory behavior and oppression against them in pakistan is unfair and un islamic

  5. Parliament-certified Muslim United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @cheenee

    Don’t worry, my Cheenee brother. Soon, your country Cheen (China), alongwith Saudi Arabia and India, will accede to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, and the following words of Hazrat Allama Iqbal Musawwir-e-Pakistan will be finally fulfilled:

    “Cheen-o-Arab hamara, Hindostan hamara”

    Then, you will see that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan will comprise of the following provinces, in accordance with the dream of Hazrat Musawwir-e-Pakistan:

    1. Sooba Punjab

    2. Sooba Sindh

    3. Sooba Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa

    4. Sooba Balochistan

    5. Sooba Cheen

    6. Sooba Arab

    7. Sooba Hindostan

    In the forth-coming elections, the Tehrik-e-taliban Pakistan, with the financial and spiritual assistance of Mumlikat al Saudia al Arabia al Islamia al Wahabia al Salafia, is giong to come into power. Then, you will see that Cheen-o-Arab hamara hoga aur Hindostan bhi hamara hoga. They will accede to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and all their citizens must become Parliament-Certified Muslims.

  6. Khan United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @USMAN

    First of all, i like to stress on the defination of muslim: any one who believes in unity and oneness of Allah and believes as prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as seal of prophet hood, and believes in the gist of articles of faith. If ahmedis do this, they are muslim. If not, they are kafirs, no matter what they claim. However, they have same rights as possessed by any human. Discriminatory behavior and oppression against them in pakistan is unfair and un islamic

    Thank you for that decent comment. As a Muslim belonging to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jamaat, I will be more than glad to inform you of my beliefs:

    .

    1. We Ahmadi Muslims believe that there is none worthy of worship but Allah, the one and only God. We Ahmadi Muslims believe that Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) is the Messenger of Allah and the Khaatam-un-Nabiyyeen, as stated in the Holy Quran

    2. We Ahmadi Muslims believe in all the Malaaika (Angels of Allah)

    3. We Ahmadi Muslims believe in all the Rusul (Messengers of Allah)

    4. We Ahmadi Muslims believe in all the Kutub (Books of Allah)

    5. We Ahmadi Muslims believe in the Aakhira (Hereafter)

    .

    Coming to the Five Pillars of Islam:

    .

    1. We Ahmadi Muslims believe in and recite the Kalima Laa ilaaha illallah Muhammad ur rasoolullah

    2. We Ahmadi Muslims offer the prescribed Salat five times a day – Fajr, Zuhr, Asr, Maghrib and Isha

    3. We Ahmadi Muslims pay Zakat

    4. We Ahmadi Muslims observe the fasts of Ramadan

    5. We Ahmadi Muslims go for Hajj to Makkah

    .

    Would you like to inform us of your good religious beliefs ?

  7. abc Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    ^@Khan

    We cannot perform Hajj. Ahamdis are banned from entering Makkah(courtesy SA & Pakistan).

  8. Rashid United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    PLEASE GO TO FOLLOWING LINK AND READ FOR YOURSELF HOW QADIANI KHALIFA 3 MIRZA NASIR AHMAD MADE COMPLETE SOMMERSAULTS UNDER PRESSURE IN PAKISTAN NATIONAL ASSEMBLY IN 1974. HE BASICALLY CHANGED HIS BELIEFS AND LIED. THIS HE WAS ABLE TO DO BECAUSE HE KNEW PPP GOVERNMENT PLANNED TO KEEP ALL NATIONAL ASSEMBLY RECORD AS SECRET. BUT IN 2012 THE LAST PPP GOVERNMENT MADE IT PUBLIC AND I HAVE COMMENTED ON QK3 MIRZA NASIR AHMAD COMMENTS:

    http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2012/12/25/comments-on-mirza-nasir-ahmads-answers-at-the-national-assembly-1974/

  9. tajender United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Cheen-o-Arab hamara, Hindostan hamara”

    hindi hain hum watan hai hindostan hamara

  10. tajender United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    aie abroode ganga
    woh din hai yaad tujhko
    utra tere kinare
    jab carvan hamara
    kutch baat hai ki hasti mittee nahin hamari
    sadiyonraha hai dushman
    daure jaman hamara.

    great allama iqbal.dont distort him.

  11. Ibne-Aziz Pakistan Internet Explorer Windows says:

    @ Rashid
    Mr. Rashid referred to a site of his own to prove his allegations. I visited that site and I have read whole of the proceedings. I am sorry to mention that
    1) some of the references given by Mr. Rashid are wrong.
    2) In most cases he has not mentioned the exact words of Head of Ahmadiyya Community. and failed to mention the whole account of discussion.
    First this important error should me corrected.

  12. parliament certified muslim, United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @abc

    We cannot perform Hajj. Ahamdis are banned from entering Makkah(courtesy SA & Pakistan).

    That’s good and you deserve that. When the Parliament and Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan do not recognize you as Muslims, why should you be allowed to enter Makkah? Yoon bhi, Makkah hamaray baap ka shehr aur Kaaba hamaray baap ka ghar hai.
    @Tajender

    Chin-o-Arab hamara, Hindostan hamara”

    hindi hain hum watan hai hindostan hamara

    Stop tampering with Hazrat Allama Iqbal’s words. The correct words are:

    Cheen-o-Arab hamara, Hindostan hamara

    hindi hain hum watan hai hindostan hamara

    China, Saudi Arabia and India, are all destined to become part of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. This is the vision of Iqbal, the greatest visionary.

    @Ibne Aziz

    From your comment, you seem to be a Qadiani and Rashid seems to be a Lahori. Both of you are “Kafirs” and have been duly judged as “Non-Muslims” by the Parliament of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. All of you will go to hell. Only the Parliament-certified Muslims will enter paradise.

  13. akb Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    Chin-o-Arab hamaraY, Hindostan hamara”
    HUM SAANP KE PUJARI SARA JEHAAN hamara!!

    .

    MONKEY HAMARE BHAI, KUTYA HAMARI BEHNA
    MOONH PER PESHAAB MALNA HEE HE HAMARA GEHNA!
    .

    HUM LOG HEIN HARAMI HUM LOG MAAN KE DHAKKAN
    SOOWAR HAMARA DEVTA, GAYYA HAMARI BHAGWUN!

    .

    SAARE JEHAN MEIN HE HUM HINDUOAN KA CHARCHA
    DHARTI KA BOJH HE HUM BAYSOOD KA HEIN KHARCHA
    .
    AUR LIKHOOON??

  14. akb Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    UBHRA THA AIK KHADRA PUNJAB KEE ZAMEEN SE
    BARTANIA KA NOKER FARIGH WOH APNE DEEN SE

    .

    KHUD KO NABI WOH KEHTA MIRGEE ME GHARQ REHTA
    ISA KA WOH DUSHAMN SHIVA KO NEECH KEHTA
    .

    LAANAT HE MIRZA E OAN PE KAFIR SE JO HEIN BUDTAR
    INSANIYAT KE DUSHMAN JHOOTAY FARAIBI KAM TAR!!

  15. akb Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    MIRZAI DEVIATES ARE NOT ONLY ENEMIES OF PAKISTAN BUT A CURSE FOR THE HUMANITY. I SAY THIS BECAUSE THEY DENY ALL OTHERS AS HUMANS AND CALL THEMSELVES HUMANS OF THE FIRST RATE. SUCH SICK THINKING IS PURELY MADNESS AND AN INSULT TO HUMANITY. THEY DEVIATED FROM ISLAM YET THEY CRAVE TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED AS MUSLIMS,,,FUNNY INDEED! THEY ARE IMITATORS AND CORRUPTERS OF ISLAMIC RELIGION AND THIS IS THE MAIN REASON THY HAVE BEEN EXTERMINATED FROM ISLAMIC FAITH AND DECLARED NON MUSLIMS.
    MAY GOD’S CURSE FALL ON THESE UNFAITHFUL ROGUES! AMEN

  16. akb United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ Khan

    ,
    To hell with your beliefs!! You are mere imitators and deviates.

    you believe in a mullah namely mullah ghulla and his offshoots as prophets and caliphs. You regard all who don’t believe in them as Kafirs. This deviation reflects upon your approach in your dealings with others, including Pakistan and India. It’s because of this heinous deviation from the mainstream Islam and Quranic tenets that you have been outcast and condemned unanimously by one and all other Muslims regardless of their sects.

    .
    DUNYA KO DHOKA DAY SAKTAY HO
    RABB KO KAISAY DO GAY??
    JHOOTAY NABI KO MAAN-NAY WALO
    KAB GHARQ YEHAN SE HO GAY?

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  18. U. Hasan Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Mr. AKB: You have quoted all references out of context. Your forefathers considered Ahmadis as Muslims including Allama Iqbal and Maulana Zafar Ali Khan. During the time of Pakistan Movement nobody considered Ahmadis as non-Muslims, it was only after the creation of Pakistan that certain power-hungry groups considered Ahmadis as a hurdle in achieving their ulterior motives and used religion as a ploy to prop up their vicious designs. If you have the right to say them as non-Muslim, why do you deny them the same right to call you as “Kafir”.

  19. akb Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ U. Hasan

    .

    Your logic is hollow and unacceptable. Tell us about your forefathers as to who they were?? You bloody deviates and your forefathers much before Iqbal or ZaFAR etc were SUNNI Muslim’s only!! Then enter the ‘dragon’ Murja Ghulla who at first posed as a friend of Sunni Muslims and even headed the Kashmir committee but was soon caught with his aberrations and kicked out!! Iqbal and all others abhored them ….called them DEVIATES, MURTIDS AND GENTILES!! A cheat can fool some for some time but not all at all times. This is what applies to you, deviates and Gentiles!!

  20. akb Pakistan Safari Unknow Os says:

    Scoring 3118 comments the Committee of Murtadeen o Munafiqeen e Mirza Ghullayaan hereby declares this thread as the longest one in the history of Bullshit and is hereby pleased to include it n YLH in GooNuss Book of Records.
    Without Mirja Ghulla this world would have ceased to exist!! It exists but Mirja Ghulla rests in Hell!!

  21. S Pakistan Chrome for iOS iPad says:

    Why don’t you people actually bring about a proper logical reasoning? Is it because you do not have any? Calling us names will not do anything to us, our faith is not that weak. You will just be adding to your own sins. So if you have a proper argument, come and argue, otherwise just don’t bother commenting.
    We believe in la illa ha illalaaho Muhammad ur rasool ullah.

  22. akb Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @@S

    you don’t seem to have read the whole thread or the main comments therein. All arguments have been made and exhausted. But if you are not satisfied visit http://www.irshad.com for enlightenment,

    .
    Needless to say you are heretics and have no connection with Islam or Muslims As if You are the wise one, and the rest of the Ummah is a fool
    Stop trying to be more pious than any other human being on earth!!
    You are certainly destined for Hell!!

  23. S Pakistan Chrome for iOS iPad says:

    @akb
    You certainly see, to make quite an upper hand by destining me to Hell, don’t you. Remember once and for all, that you are noone to destine me or anyone to Hell. Your deeds and my deeds, ypur intentions and my intentions are constantly being watched by Allah.
    Further more, you also do mot have the right to declare anyone to be a nonMuslim. Anyone who declares someone else to be a Kafir becomes a Kafir himself.
    Thirdly, I ma not trying to pious than anyone, nor am I saying that the rest of the Ummah is a fool. I just ask for my rights to practise my religion freely. You do, why can’t I?
    And instead of checking out websites that do not belong to us and are made solely for the purpose of istigating people against us, you should go to the offical Ahmadiyya website alislam.org
    Peace be on you because we will always reply with love in the face of hate.

  24. akb Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ S

    Beta, come out in the street in Indo-Pak and try to sermonize your Mirjai propaganda publicly. You will be sent to hell straightaway. You can fool for once but not the next time…Why don’t you call Allah for help instead of wailing on these tiny forums??? Allah will never pardon you for your heresy!!

  25. S Pakistan Chrome for iOS iPad says:

    The only reason I won’t come out is because I’ll be murdered. Which I already will be, whether I do that or not.
    And i do call for Allah to help me and He has mashAllah blessed me with every single, mid you, every single thing that I could ever want and need.

  26. Jehan Zeb Khan Saudi Arabia Internet Explorer Windows says:

    ssalam O alikum Muslims,
    I want to give you the true example of the ahmedies. Last July I was in London and saw some ahmedies distributing leaflets in the streets of London to every one (Muslims and non muslims) with their propagandas and after looking at it they were throwing and scattering them in the street while those leaflet had Quranic verses (Surat Al-Fateha) in it. Those distributing were not taking care of that. I do not think a true muslim can insult their holy book like that. Wallahe I saw those leaflets in thousands lying in the streets of London.

  27. akb Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    Mirzai are patently apostates,,,,they have NO place in the Muslim Ummah…..they must go back to Mirja Ghulla’s grave in Qadiyaan and lie with him there.

    .

    Mirjai’s have NO respect for Prophet Muhammad , Lord Krishnae, Jesus, Moses or anyone except themselves. They are adamant cheats,,,,wolves in sheep garb. They are just a handful group of Taliban-style Mullah’s ,,,,they flout democracy and all other religions.

    .
    go to http://www.irshad.com to learn more about them and their cult.

  28. akb Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ S

    You are a bloody coward. Come out on the street, even those in India, and try to preach your bullshit cult. Even Hindu;s and Christians will send you to hell!!
    You cowardice to come out in public confirms you are evil and are hated by one and all!!
    Go to UK as you are patronized by the British, you being their old slaves. Your Mirja Ghulla was a demented third degree Mullah and a paid slave of the British. He was a traitor not only of Muslims but of the entire Greater India!!
    Hide your face in hell….before someone gets you!!

  29. truthpower Germany Mozilla Firefox Unknow Os says:

    to Muslims and ahmadi Muslims, once upon a time an akb mardood was born in a toilet and then upbrought by nature in the filthiest gutter of narrow mindedness, irrationality, rubbish speaking …don’t believe me look into his entire chat record , trust me even a croaking toad makes more sense..go ahead look back..all sort of verbal filth and impurities can be found in his rubbish but not much evidence…so he thought everyones born in toilets and all the big things happen there henceforth the poor soul is not worth wasting time on! please forgive and forget the mentally ill ones its a sadqah!! thankyou jazakAllah

  30. akb Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ truthpower

    .
    Oay bhangi,,, why are you mistaking me for Mirja Ghulla?? It was Mirja Ghulla who died a miserable death in toilet.
    New readers may check the whole story at
    http://www.irshad.com or any even at wiki, for the Truth.
    These hellish Mijai mullah’s are dirty people with dirty mentality……they shun not only Islam but all religions together and think themselves children of god!! Truth is power not truthpower, ignorant biased
    Mirjai word warriors!!

  31. akb Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @@Syed

    .//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    /////////////…ye mirzai itne kuttay kion hote hein??…//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    Oay Mirja Ghulla ke tattay!! Tell Mirja Ghulla not to shit behind while holding the mirror before me!! I know he was a barber……and wants tip from me!!

    ..

    JHOOTA NABI JHOOTA RASOOL
    BIGGEST MORON DAMNEST FOOL!
    JAALI SYED JAALI MUSALMAAN
    GENTILE, APOSTATE, SATAN!
    HELL TO YOU!

  32. akb Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @truth power

    Don’t try to compare or equate your phony Mirja ghulla with Prophet Muhammad……if you want then come out on the street and see how people ‘welcome’ you!
    Being ‘holy’ doesn’t mean he is a prophet….Gandhi, Jinnah, Nehru, Tagore, Joan of Ark, Bhagat singh, etc —all of them were holy but none of them said he was a prophet. Your Lahori chip calls Mirja Ghulla as a ‘Mujaddid’ or kinda saint, whereas more worse Mullah Mirjai’s of Rabwah/Qadian call him a prophet. What a paradox and a hotch potch of sewage your bloody Mirja Ghulla is!! Shame on him as well as you!

    Mirja Ghulla
    Dee maan da L^^^a!

  33. akb Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    here is the meaning of Insurgent,,,,,freedom fighter are also called ‘insurgents’…
    .
    Noun 1. insurgent – a person who takes part in an armed rebellion against the constituted authority (especially in the hope of improving conditions)insurgent – a person who takes part in an armed rebellion against the constituted authority (especially in the hope of improving conditions)
    freedom fighter, insurrectionist, rebel
    mutineer – someone who is openly rebellious and refuses to obey authorities (especially seamen or soldiers)
    crusader, meliorist, reformer, reformist, social reformer – a disputant who advocates reform
    revolutionary, revolutionist, subversive, subverter – a radical supporter of political or social revolution
    Young Turk – a member of one or more of the insurgent groups in Turkey in the late 19th century who rebelled against the absolutism of Ottoman rule
    .
    insurgent [ɪnˈsɜːdʒənt]
    adj
    rebellious or in revolt, as against a government in power or the civil authorities
    n
    1. a person who takes part in an uprising or rebellion; insurrectionist
    2. (Law) International law a person or group that rises in revolt against an established government or authority but whose conduct does not amount to belligerency
    [from Latin insurgēns rising upon or against, from insurgere to rise up, from surgere to rise]
    insurgency
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/insurgent
    .
    NB: Because the Mirjai’s too rebel against the laws of the land they too are INSURGENTS according to the definition of the word.

  34. Congratulations for an excellent article (and the courage to publish it).

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  36. Hyde United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Ahmadis aside, calling Zia a bigot is fruitless. I may personally believe that ahmadis are not muslims, but as secular constitution of Pakistan allows people to claim whatever religion they are, so I guess they are muslims.

  37. realityhurts United Kingdom Google Chrome Windows says:

    If we consider TTP as enemy of the state( & rightly so ) because they dont accept Pakistani constitution and law , then why have different standard for others… why we forget that Ahmadi/qadiyani were first to declared us as kafir …we just respond….you are my kafir and i am yours..

    remember zafirullah reject to offered “Janaza” of Jannah by calling him Kafir

  38. akb Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Hyde

    Your comment about Mirjai heretics and apostates smacks of hypocrisy.
    A cockraoch doesn’t become a butterfly with the change of environment or horticulture process nor does a black sheep become white by painting it with lime.

  39. akb Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    EX-AHMADI WOMAN (FAUZIA FAIZI) BLASTING AGAINST AHMADIYA CULT..

    .
    WATCH ON YOUTUBE, HERE!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWZ5hO9C5Bo

  40. Shabnam United States Google Chrome Mac OS says:

    Any one says he or she is Muslim is a MUslim.
    I do not have the right to dispute it.
    If you are a believer you have to leave it to God.
    Please do not judge others see who you are and what do you do as good kind humane beings.

  41. akb Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @shabnam

    If you say was true then you surely believe in ‘taqqayya’?

    Deeds speak louder than words, Saying is not the same as doing,
    .
    Read this eye opener…and decide whether Mirjai;s could be called Muslims at all!
    .

    Just examine Mirza’s writings in order to make an objective assessment.
    (Translated from his original Urdu)
    ‘We curse anyone making a claim of prophethood.(Advertisement dated 20 Sha’ban, 1314 AH) But soon he is found claiming:In the Word of God I have been named Muhammad and a Messenger. (RoohaniKhazain 18/207) I am Adam, I am Noah, I am David, I am Messiah son of Mary, I am Muhammad.(Roohani Khazain 22/521) I am Rama, I am Buddha and I am Krishna. I am the ‘promised one’ of all religions. (Ref same) [Zahooruddin Akmal, a disciple, hurls this insult:Muhammad has descended among us again,And in his glory he is loftier than before!]
    ‘Aayil’ came to me. God gave Jibrael (Gabriel) the name of Aayil because he returns to me time and again. (Haqiqat-ul-Wahi pg 103) [Aayil from “aaya” is a derivative of “Coming” in Urdu] God gave me the tidings that I would live up to be 80 years or longer.
    (Muwahib-ur-Rahman)[But Mirza died in 1908 when he would be 68-73] It is absurd that a person should receive inspiration from God in a language different from his own! (Chashma-e-Ma’rifat pg 209)
    And then, quite an opposite verdict:
    It is strange that some of the inspiration I receive is in languages quite
    unknown to me, for example, English or Sanskrit or Hebrew, etc.
    On 5 March 1905 I saw an angel. When asked, he said his name was Tichi Tichi!
    (Haqiqat-ul-Wahi pg 332) [A smile would be in order here!]
    It is written in Bukhari that a voice from the sky will announce (for Ghulam Ahmed), “This is the Khalifa of Allah, Mahdi!” Just think about it. How glorious this Hadith is! (Shahadatul Quran pg 41) [Turn page after page of all volumes of Bukhari, and you will not find this quotation anywhere!]
    Look up history and it tells you that (Prophet Muhammad) was the same
    orphan whose father had died a few days after his birth. (Paigham-e-Sulh pg 9) [It is common knowledge that the exalted Prophet's father Abdullah had died before his birth!] Treat this self-grown plant with special kindness and favor. (Mirza Ghulam’s letter to the British Lieutenant Governor, 24 February 1898)[The request in this letter should be viewed in the context of W.W. Hunter’s and Nawab Chhatari’s revelations.]

    .
    Mirja said he was a woman with balls!!how funny!
    The state of divination overtook Mirza Ghulam Ahmed, such that he was a woman, and Allah expressly used His power of manhood. This is enough said for those who have discernment. (“Islami Qurbani” Tract Number 34, Qazi Yar Muhammad Qadiani) [The author of “Suboot Hazir Hain”, M. Mateen Khalid, comments that in the entire history of mankind, not a single individual besides Mirza has ascribed this abomination to God. But there is more to it.]
    Baboo Elahi Bakhsh wants to see my menstruation but Allah says you have no menstruation. There is that baby in you. (Annexure to Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, pg 581)[That baby refers to Jesus Christ]
    The spirit of Jesus was infused in me like it was infused in Mary and
    allegorically I was rendered pregnant. Not more than ten months had passed when I was made Jesus from Mary. That is how I became Jesus, son of Mary.(Kashti-Nooh pg 47) [Try to make sense of it.]
    Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud, the son of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed, who became the second “caliph”, writes in Al-Fazl on 5 January 1933:
    About the revelation to the Promised Messiah (Ghulam Ahmed) that he would die in either Makkah or Madina, we would say that both are the names of Qadian.[The problem here is that the Mirza Saheb met his end neither in Makkah,Madina nor in Qadian, but in the Ahmadiya Building in Lahore! The contemporary critics confidently assert that he fell dead in the lavatory. Eye witnesses, the medical certificate and Mirza’s biographies do describe his last illness as severe diarrhea or cholera.]
    .
    Allah prays, fasts, awakens, and sleeps (Al-Bushra 2/79)
    I am myself God. (Aina Kamalat-e-Islam pg 564)
    Three gems from a poet disciple of Mirza:
    If anyone wishes to see Muhammad
    One should see Ghulam Ahmed in Qadian
    Muhammad has descended among us again
    And loftier is he in his glory!

  42. akb Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ shabnam

    ,,,,

    ”Please do not judge others see who you are and what do you do as good kind humane beings.”

    .
    Ridiculous! what you say equally applies to non muslims as well as atheists. Here we are concerned about Mirjai’s and they are patently Kafirs, non muslims, murteds, munafiqs, zindeeqs….you can assess Mirjaism from the words of Mirja himself and some are posted above for your kind perusal.

  43. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Mirjai Apostates should know…..

    .

    The crime of criticizing a religion is not always called blasphemy; sometimes it is categorized as hate speech (even when it falls well below any sensible standard of actually inciting hatred or violence) because it supposedly insults the followers of a religion. These crimes—of expressing ‘blasphemy’ or offending religious feelings—are still a crime in 55 countries, can mean prison in 39 of those countries, and are punishable by death in six countries. In addition, most of the twelve countries which punish apostasy with death also sometimes treat ‘blasphemy’ as evidence of apostasy.

    And from the IHEU summary:

    In line with their words, several possibly unexpected nations come out rather badly on the scale of five classifications — which range upward in severity from “Free and Equal”, through “Mostly Satisfactory”, “Systemic Discrimination”, “Severe Discrimination”, to “Grave Violations”.

    Four western countries are rated “Severe” because they can jail people for breaking laws prohibiting ‘blasphemy’ and other free speech on religion.

    Those countries are Iceland (a sentence of jail for up to 3 months), Denmark (up to 4 months), New Zealand (up to a year), Poland (up to two years), Germany (up to three years) and Greece (up to three years). Jail time could be handed to someone who simply “blasphemes God” in the case of Greece, or “insults the content of other’s religious faith” in the case of Germany.

  44. sta Pakistan Safari iPhone says:

    @akb (November 10, 2013 at 3:09 am)

    EX-AHMADI WOMAN (FAUZIA FAIZI) BLASTING AGAINST AHMADIYA

    Did it ever occur to you that, in all likelihood, an ex-Muslim will always blast Islam, an ex-Christian will always blast Christianity and an ex-anything will always blast anything? So, what’s new?
    .
    @Shabnam (November 16, 2013 at 1:43 am)

    Any one says he or she is Muslim is a Muslim

    This is precisely what the Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad said. When the first census of Madina was being conducted, some Muslims asked the Holy Prophet, who they should count among the Muslims. The Prophet replied: Write down for me, the names of all those who call themselves Muslims. [Bukhari]
    .
    The 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of Pakistan, is therefore, a deviation from the words of the Holy Prophet sallallaho alaihi wa sallam.

  45. p United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Hyde (Oct 24, ’13 at 8:56 pm)

    Ahmadis aside, calling Zia a bigot is fruitless. I may personally believe that ahmadis are not muslims, but as secular constitution of Pakistan allows people to claim whatever religion they are, so I guess they are muslims.

    You blasphemous bigot! How dare you call the Islamic Constitution of Pakistan “Secular”? Shame on you!! Pakistan is an Islamic Republic and its constitution is an Islamic Constitution, not a secular one. And the historic Second Amendment of the Islamic Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is no ordinary amendment. It’s an inspired amendment – the only one of its kind. According to this “inspired constitutional amendment”, Ahmadis are not Muslims for the purposes of constitution or law. And this is the biggest problem with Pakistanis. They mix up definitions. Pakistan needs a visionary leader like Hazrat Maulana Syed Munawwar Hassan (Amir Jamaat -i-Islami), who recently pointed out to the ignorant people of Pakistan:
    “all Pakistan Army personnel killed while fighting against the Holy Taliban are MAQTOOLS and not “Shaheeds”, while all Taliban who lost their lives while fighting against the Pakistan Army are SHAHEEDS.” [Syed Munawwar Hassan]
    Hazrat Maulana Maudoodi(Founder of Jamaat-i-Islami and Mentor of Hazrat Maulana Munawwar Hassan) had foreseen all these problems coming. This is why Hazrat Maulana Maudoodi issued the following fatwas before hand:
    1. “The establishment and birth of Pakistan is equivalent to the birth of a beast.” [Tarjumanul Quran vol.31, p.59, 1948 Pakistan]

    According to the words of Hazrat Maulana Maudoodi, the beast has to be tamed and the Holy Taliban are doing just that, with the help of Islamic Improvised Explosive Devices.

    2. “Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s place is not on the throne of leadership. He deserves to face trial as a traitor.” [Tarjumanul Quran vol.31,p.62, 1948]

    Hence, the Parliament and Supreme Court of Pakistan should now hold a posthumous trial against Jinnah and try him for treason.

    3. “It is haraam to vote for the Muslim League.” [Tarjumanul Quran vol.27, p.145, 1946, Pathankot]

    This proves that everyone who has ever voted for the Muslim League is a certified harami.

    4. “The Muslim League is an unrighteous and immoral party that has made our collective environment filthier than the lavatory.” [Jamaat Islami ki intikhabi jidd-o jehd, p.16]

    PMLN, PMLQ and PMLC are all lavatories.

    5. “The Mohajirs are deserters and cowards, who fought a national battle, but when the time came to pay the price, they took the path of escape.” [Nawa-e waqt, 29 Aug 1948]

    MQM members are all deserters and cowards.

    .

    @Shabnam (November 16, 2013 at 1:43 am)

    Any one says he or she is Muslim is a MUslim.

    No! It is the exclusive job of the Islamic Parliament of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to judge anyone a Muslim or non-Muslim. And in 1974, the Islamic Parliament of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, through an inspired amendment in the Islamic Constitution, declared Ahmadis as non-Muslims.

  46. parliament certified muslim United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    It was me in the previous comment… I was so angry that I forgot to add my position correctly.

  47. parliament certified muslim United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    CORRECTED POST
    @Hyde (Oct 24, ’13 at 8:56 pm)

    Ahmadis aside, calling Zia a bigot is fruitless. I may personally believe that ahmadis are not muslims, but as secular constitution of Pakistan allows people to claim whatever religion they are, so I guess they are muslims.

    You blasphemous bigot!!! How dare you call the Islamic Constitution of Pakistan “Secular”? Shame on you!!! Pakistan is an Islamic Republic and its constitution is an Islamic Constitution, not a secular one. And the historic Second Amendment of the Islamic Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is no ordinary amendment. It’s an inspired amendment – the only one of its kind. According to this “inspired constitutional amendment”, Ahmadis are not Muslims for the purposes of constitution or law. And this is the biggest problem with Pakistanis. They mix up definitions. Pakistan needs a visionary leader like Hazrat Maulana Syed Munawwar Hassan (Amir Jamaat -i-Islami), who recently pointed out to the ignorant people of Pakistan:
    “all Pakistan Army personnel killed while fighting against the Holy Taliban are MAQTOOLS and not “Shaheeds”, while all Taliban who lost their lives while fighting against the Pakistan Army are SHAHEEDS.” [Maulana Syed Munawwar Hassan]
    Hazrat Maulana Maudoodi(Founder of Jamaat-i-Islami and Mentor of Hazrat Maulana Munawwar Hassan) had foreseen all these problems coming. This is why Hazrat Maulana Maudoodi issued the following fatwas before hand:
    1. “The establishment and birth of Pakistan is equivalent to the birth of a beast.” [Tarjumanul Quran vol.31, p.59, 1948 Pakistan]

    According to these words of Hazrat Maulana Maudoodi, the “beast” has to be tamed. And the Holy Taliban are doing just that, with the help of Islamically Improvised Explosive Devices.

    2. “Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s place is not on the throne of leadership. He deserves to face trial as a traitor.” [Tarjumanul Quran vol.31,p.62, 1948]

    Hence, the Parliament and Supreme Court of Pakistan should now hold a posthumous trial against Jinnah and try him for treason.

    3. “It is haraam to vote for the Muslim League.” [Tarjumanul Quran vol.27, p.145, 1946, Pathankot]

    This proves that everyone who has ever voted for the Muslim League is a certified “harami”.

    4. “The Muslim League is an unrighteous and immoral party that has made our collective environment filthier than the lavatory.” [Jamaat Islami ki intikhabi jidd-o jehd, p.16]

    Therefore, all forms of Muslim Leagues ( AIML and PMLN, etc) are all filthier than lavatories.

    5. “The Mohajirs are deserters and cowards, who fought a national battle, but when the time came to pay the price, they took the path of escape.” [Nawa-e waqt, 29 Aug 1948]

    In light of these words of Maulana Maudoodi, all MQM members are “deserters” and “cowards”.

    .

    @Shabnam (November 16, 2013 at 1:43 am)

    Any one says he or she is Muslim is a MUslim.

    Wrong. It is the exclusive job of the Islamic Parliament of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to judge anyone a Muslim or non-Muslim. And in 1974, the Islamic Parliament of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, through an inspired amendment in the Islamic Constitution, declared Ahmadis as non-Muslims. Thus, it was in 1974, almost 1400 years after the advent of Islam, that “Islam” finally got defined. For 1400 years, the terms “Islam” and “Muslim” had no clear definitions, and Islam was like an orphan. The credit for this greatest-ever service to Islam goes to the Islamic Parliament of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. This historic feat could however, not have been performed without the political genius of Hazrat Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto Shaheed and the blessed dollars that descended on that occasion, in return for this service, from the exalted treasures of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, pouring abundantly, into the humble coffers of the Government of Pakistan.

    Parliament-Certified Muslim

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