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Pak Tea House » Uncategorized » Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?

Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?

By Yasser Latif Hamdani

(Written exclusively for PakTeaHouse. Please give credit when crossposting)

The poison of ignorance and extremism that Bhutto and General Zia jointly fathered during their dictatorial regimes has fully indoctrinated even those who otherwise describe themselves as educated.

This week the Large Hadron Collider at the CERN inched closer to the discovery of Higgs Boson or the God Particle as it were. In this extraordinary story of human achievement,  Dr. Abdus Salam is a key player who put Pakistan on the map of theoretical physics. In his homeland though, a group of self-styled champions of Islam have started a posthumous campaign of scurrilous slander claiming that Dr. Salam was giving out nuclear secrets. Forget that even a confirmed bigot like General Zia  held a ceremony in our only nobel prize winner’s honour or that no one ever accused Dr. Salam of any such thing; in Pakistan to be a hero you have to actually transfer technology to Iran, Libya and North Korea.

Now consider the case of 11 year old Sitara Akbar. Every Pakistani and his mother in law are citing her as a crowning national achievement, blissfully oblivious of the fact that she is an Ahmadi. To them her religion is suddenly unimportant or irrelevant or is it? How many Sitara Akbars have been expelled from our schools for being Ahmadi? How many productive citizens of this republic have been killed and maimed for believing differently?

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s National Assembly imagined itself the Islamic equivalent of the Council of Nicea. Just as that ancient bastion of Christian orthodoxy excommunicated unitarian Christians for not believing in the trinity of the father, son and the holy ghost, the National Assembly saw it fit to – primarily at the instigation of the Prime Minister and his law minister- declare an entire sect non-Muslim. Just like the post hoc elevation of the principle of trinity at Nicea, Pakistan’s National Assembly located Islam in the principle of the finality of Prophethood.

This act of our sovereign legislature stood in sharp contrast to the view of this nation’s founding father. On 5 May, 1944, in response to demands of the orthodox vis a vis Ahmadis, Jinnah made it absolutely clear that anyone who professes to be a Muslim is a Muslim and welcome in the Muslim League and that those who were raising the issue were trying to divide the Muslims. Here I am forced to say that I am inclined to accept Jinnah’s view and reject the collective wisdom of our sovereign legislature. There are several reasons which may be cited in this regard:

  1. First and foremost Pakistan is bound by the United Nations’ charter. Therefore Pakistan is bound to ensure freedom of religion for all its citizens and freedom of religion means freedom of religion according to the definition of the subject of the said freedom.
  2. Identity is subjective not objective. The state of Pakistan or any other state cannot tell an Ahmadi that he is not a Muslim because it is intrinsic to the faith of an Ahmadi.  This is an inviolable, inalienable right as part of right to life which every state in the world is bound to protect. If Ahmadis say they are Muslims they ought to be accepted as such.
  3. Pakistan is a signatory to the ICCPR and without reservations since June 2011. Therefore every piece of legislation that discriminates against Ahmadis or forces a label upon them is ultra vires the ICCPR.
  4. The Islamic argument: According to the Holy Prophet (PBUH) anyone who utters the Kalima Shahadah is a Muslim. None of the Kalimas, including the Primary Kalima Shahadah contains any reference to the principle of the finality of Prophethood as understood by the Muslim majority today.
  5. Finally because by conduct and promise, Pakistani state is estopped from claiming otherwise. In 1947, Pakistan laid claim to Qadian as a Muslim holy place, a counter-blast to Sikh claims on Nankana Sahib and Hassan Abdal.  Similarly in 1946 elections which is the basic referendum on the question of Pakistan, Ahmadi votes were instrumental in getting Muslims Pakistan. These are undeniable facts of history.

 

Therefore- fully aware of the stigma attached to this statement- I concur with Quaid-e-Azam Mahomed Ali Jinnah, thefounding father of Pakistan that Ahmadis are Muslims, if they say they are Muslims and no one, not even the sovereign legislature, has the right to say otherwise.

 




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3,231 Responses to "Are Ahmadis Non-Muslims?"

  1. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    kaal chakra, bhaiyya no no, i have no issue with you following any sick, morbid, dead or no religion at all.you can follow anything you want.your practices cannot be judged by me bhaiyya, you alwayssss forget i dont kno why im not God, and none of the ahmadiyya group is. its none of my business, but when you call us ahmadis the greatest challenge islam has ever faced. and bhaiyya you are very intelligent but your thinking about pth, looking out for us because it wants to get rid of islam is very sick nah.
    yesterday, after i completed all the five prayers in islam, and asked my Allah (the God in islam) for guidance, i think he wanted me to let you know :that please let this lost distant brother of yours to stop looking out for islam, and be a better hindu than others. you know Allah bara rehman hai , aap achay hindu hi ban jayain, woh khush ho jayay ga!stop worrying about islam bhaiyya, its making you crazy.
    you must look out for yourself, happy belated diwali.
    (and now my slogan ahmaddiyyat islam ki jayay ho, naaraYtakbeer, ALLAH U AKBAR)

  2. Kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    I knew my sister would be fair and intelligent, despite her claims to be being divine and Ahmadi.

    It is settled then. The rest of us mankind (crazy and demented) follow our sick, morbid, dead, or religion at all, as certified, respected and loved by Ahmadis, while Ahmadis follow Mirza Ghulam, the literally sick reincarnation of Krishna, Rama, Muhammad, Buddha; cruel murderer of those who opposed him; dearly loved and respected by us; a religion which is not remotely Islam, as certified by all knowledgeable Muslims and the unbeliever me.

    Now, sister, for another twelve hours or so, get back to your loud slogans and narabazi, which won’t save you (only Islam will, and Islam can clearly tell a complete hypocrite doing narabazi trying to destroy Islam from the inside and a Muslim actually following Islam), while I go and have fun as an openly confessed unbeliever, and talk to Allah about the terrible fate of hypocrites and religious frauds.)

    Love to all.

  3. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    no, brother there is always hope for you, i believe.and instead of whining so much about what we say of your religion, why dont you start to prove something. well, i have got proof thats why i can say anything i want to. you name somthing and i,ll prove it. the question of mortality oimmoratality of a religion lies in its subject matter. can you please provide us with something substatial to prove against our opinion!well, if yes then bring it on table stop crying like that.
    why dont you tell me why is what you are following not morbid, but what iam following is.instead of passing derogatory remarks come up with some prooooooof.
    you must know the difference between insanity and intellect, one keeps repeating non sense, the other always proves his point.
    seeee ya aunty black chakra!

  4. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    islam sub say acha, islam sub say pyara, islam dil ki kuwat, islam hai sahara (ameen)

  5. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    Mahee I know you are getting emotional here but please don’t promote music.

    Islam will not be promoted by bhands, we need to be practical.

  6. MilesToGo United States Safari Mac OS says:

    only for kuffar –

    http://youtu.be/mYrrTuNaHAA

  7. u wa me do Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Ubuntu Linux says:

    while Ahmadis follow Mirza Ghulam, the literally sick reincarnation of Krishna, Rama, Muhammad, Buddha; cruel murderer of those who opposed him

    are you saying Krishna, Rama, Muhammad, and Buddha were sick??

  8. Bin Ismail Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Kaalchakra (December 22, 2012 at 3:51 pm)

    Ahmadis follow Mirza Ghulam, the literally sick reincarnation of Krishna, Rama, Muhammad, Buddha; cruel murderer of those who opposed him

    Allow me to point out here, that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, has nowhere claimed that he is the reincarnation of anyone. In fact, he does not endorse the concept of Reincarnation as generally understood. Coming in the spirit of someone is not the same as appearing as someone’s reincarnation.
    Secondly, I would also like to point out that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not murder anybody, and I have a feeling you know that. If God chose to eliminate some of his opponents, this would be an act of God.

  9. kaalchakra United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    My Ahmadi brothers and sisters, I am absolutely certain that Ahmadis were the first religious murderers and assassins in the post-1857 history of the Indian subcontinent. At least I was. Now some people are saying that in KP, Allah eliminated Bashir Ahmed and protected Ghulam Ahmad. Others are saying that Bashir Ahmed’s enemies – actual human beings with their own politico-religious agendas – killed him.

    In these claims and counter claims let’s see if Allah is discovered to have carried out the murderous attack. What do you very fine gentlemen and even finer ladies would like to believe – could it have been Allah, or was it some human being as claimed by a few?

  10. kaalchakra United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Krishna, Rama, Muhammad, and Buddha were sick?

    Brother UWa, our Ahamdi brothers and sisters know these things better.

    One of the things our ABS (Ahmadi brothers and sisters) do is to claim that ‘all prophets were the same’ whenever a Muslim rightly points to the rather very questionable aspects of Bhai Ghulam Ahmad’s life and behavior. If they were all the same then that is what our dear Ahmadi brothers and sisters seem to say. You can take that Ahmadi claim with as much sugar or salt as you would with anything else that our ABS say. That decision is entirely up to your own conscience.

  11. truth power Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    k.c bhai,
    “”"”questionable aspects of Bhai Ghulam Ahmad’s life and behavior.”"”
    i m dying to know those “QUESTIONABLE “aspects of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (a.s),life, were they the same as other prophets had to face to achieve the status on which they are right now!if you are talking about the same abuse that every prophet has faced in and after his blessed divine life then yess you are totally right about that!these false aspects will always remain questionable dont worry. just like Hazrat Muhammed(s.a.w) is still being questioned in the west. Mirza sahib is questioned in the muslim world, as they still havent realised, but when they will they will stop.s

  12. Kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    TP bhai

    Many aspects of Mirza Ghulam Bhai’s life were extremely questionable, to put that most mildly. As Ahmadis themselves acknowledge, he was, to begin with, a very sick man.

    If you want to argue that Prophet Muhmmad was the same, or worse, or the devil himself, that is between you Muslims who know about Prophet Muhammad more than you or I do.

    Love to all Ahmadi brothers and sisters.

  13. Kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Sincere apologies….that should have been..

    “that is between you and Muslims who know more about Prophet Muhmmad than you and I do.”

  14. sta Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Kaalchakra
    If you recall, a battle did take place in which Krishna was on the side of Arjun. I would interpret the casualties on the other side as an act of God. You are free to interpret them as a “religious murder” committed by Krishna. Depending upon the severity of the opposition, enemies of God’s holy men, do at times the wrath of God. The case of Bilour that you have quoted, hardly seems to be working. Even as satire, it’s not up to your usual standard. Bilour was not opposing any holy man of God.
    Let me give you some other examples. Nimrod was punished by God for the manner in which he opposed Abraham. Pharaoh opposed Moses and was punished by God. Abu Jehl met his end by the Will of God for his crimes against Muhammad.

  15. Kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Brother and sister sta

    I am not sure where you see satire here or who the man of god is or was for whom Allah would personally murder their opponents. If you choose to believe so that is your decision. I do not mean to interfere with your religious beliefs, just as I do not wish to interfere with the religious beliefs of people who murdered Bashir Ahmad or that blasphemer Salman Taseer – all, who you think committed great wars against your God or Gods. Those beliefs are for you rational and progressive believers alone.

    Love for all my Ahmadi brothers and sisters.

  16. truth power Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    k.c bhai,i accept all the love you send my way as your ahmadi brother,and with this love love in my heart i would like to inform you what you wrote below is total bull’s crap:
    “”"Many aspects of Mirza Ghulam Bhai’s life were extremely questionable, to put that most mildly. As Ahmadis themselves acknowledge, he was, to begin with, a very sick man.”"”
    as your ahmadi brother i must acknowledge you are a very sick man, kaal chakra bhai.you have so many unquestionable aspects that remain unanswered.to start wih, you have a major hallucinating problem, and sometimes you start behaving as God, and seriously you love speaking ill about nobility and vice versa!madness is bound to envelop you soon my son, my son as prophecised by your ahmadi brother.

  17. Kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Brother and sister tp

    LOL…thank you. What would those do who do not have Ahmadi brothers and sisters?

    My dearest Ahmadi brothers and sisters always come down to the level you just stooped. Many go down much further. So if you choose, my brother and sister tp, you have quite a ways to go.

    But Ahmadis do themselves recognize that Bhai Mirza Ghulam was a very sick man. And when confronted with some (very disgusting, to non-Ahmadis) details of bhai jaan’s life, tell the world that Prophet Muhmmad was the same.

    Those are facts. Not very important to me, but facts don’t change if they are important or not.

    Love to all my Ahmadi brothers and sisters.

  18. Kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    “madness is bound to envelop you soon my son, my son as prophecised by your ahmadi brother.”

    Brother and sister tp, my other ahmadi brothers and sisters had prophesied to have me dead within ten years, but it seems they can’t find me to send hired Allah to kill me in the dead of the night yet. Now you have Ahmadi lovingly prophesied madness for me. I am touched and thank you for the bottom of my heart. :)

    Does that change those unimportant details about Mirza Ghulam bhai? No.

  19. Khan United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Kaalchakra
    //…If we disagree with your gracious lords and lordesses we are rebellious, prostitutes, sons of prostitutes and pimps. For not accepting Bhai Ghulam Ahmad’s claims we are illogical, talk mindless rubbish, commit extreme treachery…//
    It’s none of the above. Neither Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Founder of the Ahmadiyya Community, nor members of the Ahmadiyya Community, consider you or anybody else any of the above for disagreeing with us.

  20. sta Pakistan Safari iPad says:

    @Sister Kaalchakra
    @Brother Mahee
    In you comment of December 21, 2012 at 12:28 pm, Sister Kaalchakra, you wrote the following words to Brother Mahee:
    “..My purpose is not to stop you, only to clarify that you do not follow Islam..”
    These words did, admittedly catch my eye and had to intrude by humbly asking Sister Kaalchakra:
    “..How, may I respectfully ask, did you infer that Mahee is not following Islam?..”
    Sister Kaalchakra, I continue to eagerly look forward to your detailed sisterly reply.
    Your brother
    sta

  21. kaalchakra United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Thank you once again, my dearest Ahmadi brothers and sisters, for certifying that I am not “extreme(ly) treacherous” and many other rather bad things for merely rejecting bhai mirza ghulam’s various claims and considering and pronouncing them completely fraudulent and unIslamic. You, of course, may believe them all, and pronounce them to be all true – “true” Islam or whatever you call such things – without my calling you “extreme(ly) treacherous” and all those equally bad things.

    Some of you want me to teach you the basics of Islam. Such honor is, naturally, appreciated. But brothers and sisters, teaching you Islam, or converting you to Islam – although an excellent possibility in every way – is not my objective. There is no dearth of resources for you, if you are sincere in your search, and you may start by requesting help from Muslims on this site itself.

    I do, however, offer all of you my Ahmadi brothers and sisters my highest, deepest, and broadest possible love, and wish each of you the very best.

  22. truthpower Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    uf that was so gracious of you kaal chakra bhai, for sending your broadest, widest, deepest and all the other possible synonyms of this word to describe the love you have for us…….i mean who can be a better religious enemy than you.we are lucky to have you , and so please accept unconditional love from my side as well,it may reciprocate partially the good feelings you have for us, and now the part where you say “”"****But Ahmadis do themselves recognize that Bhai Mirza Ghulam was a very sick man. And when confronted with some (very disgusting, to non-Ahmadis) details of bhai jaan’s life, tell the world that Prophet Muhmmad was the same”"”"***
    can you give me some good names of those lovely ahmadi bros and sis of mine who recognise mirza sahab as that.i should know about them as well, are they actually ahmadis? because its very hard for me to accept any ahmadi having these feelings for mirza sahib and yet being his followers!that sounds insane!if you ask me…..
    if mirza sahib was so disgusting , how come he attracted so many devoted followers from so many different sides of subcontinent, dont know what went wrong in their heads when they got so dumb and started following such a disgusting man.even though before accpeting mirza sahib, what i heard that all of them were very religiously inclined, spiritual people.did they get some sort of mental illness, that all these moral and religious people started following a disgusting man and that also taking so much criticism from the society.giving up their lives their belongings everything for Mirza sahib. what the hell was wrong with them, Kaal?if they actually had some illness then please give me some health certificates of those sahaba, so that i SHUT UP?
    if you can prove, that all those followers were sick and not feeling well, then yes you get my appreciation totally.i will not say another word to you.
    but if you dont, then its o.k , i am not saying you are sick and disgusting, being your ahmadi brother i am not saying anything ill and sick about.you are almost always so politically correct.and you never say anything insane wow, i wish i had the intellect like you.. im so sick and disgusting stupid me.
    when the most truthful pure and higly nobel person is right in front of me. you never lie, or speak false about anyone , kaAl, wowww BRAVO!

  23. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @kaal chakra
    @sta,
    yes now to what sta refferred and which is the most important issue that is yet to be discussed. that worthy, kaalchakra bhai, has honoured me with the label of non muslim.
    i would love to have an insight on some substantial evidence that he can bring to prove his point!
    because in my impartial petty knowledge, it is the holy Prophet Muhammed (s.a.w), who was the deciding body for setting up the criteria about who is muslim and who is not. and he himself said that who ever recited kalima, is a muslim.
    who ever believes in unity of ALLAH is a muslim.who ever believe in Hazrat Muhammad (s.a.w), as Khatamunabiyeen is a muslim.who ever practices all the basic obligations of islam is a muslim.who ever offers prays to Allah is a muslim.who ever fasts for the sake of pleasing ALLAH, is a muslim. who ever pays zakat in the way of ALLAH, is a muslim.
    ahmadis do all that, i dont know when Kaal Chakra bhai, started deciding about matters of islam, when he is practicing none of the above obligations himself, infact he has no idea about the above at all…

  24. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    sta ,kc,
    a very decent analogy, to describe the situation above is that:there is a hindu man, who believes in bhagwaan, who recites bhagwat geeta religiously and believes in das vedas as the holy books, he follows them all, and tries to practice all the hindu religious rites and obligation as a devoted hindu. but there are some hindus including k.c who believe that just because he doesnot believe in one of the Gods in hinduism, so he is not a hindu.now no matter whatever the hindu religious scholars say and whatever the governement decides, i think that doesnot matter at all!
    that pious hindu man knows in heart what he is!and most importantly God knows what he is, therefore, the opinion even what i give about him doesnot matter. it will actually be stupid for me as an ahmadi muslim to say that man is not a hindu.thats the most absurd judjement i would have ever given, if i had!but i dont, because thankfully my brain is still intact. ALHAMDULILAH.

  25. Kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    My dearest Ahmadi brothers and sisters

    I will make this my very last post on this thread, And I write it with my love for all you Ahmadis, which is taller than the tallest, wider than the widest, deeper than the deepest, and higher than the highest.

    Beloved brothers and sisters, you are all good people – we can be sure. I don’t think there is anything wrong with you. You have just gotten or born into a sad cult of deceit, untruth, misinformation through word play, mind control, and sometimes, cruel murder of others. As a well-wisher I should ask you to leave that cult immediately, but I know you are too zoned out to consider that suggestion with the seriousness with which it is offered.

    You know nothing about Islam and you know nothing about Hinduism or any other religion. What you know is your Ahmadi cult. Any Hindu who believes in Dus Vedas and does not believe in some one God is probably not a Hindu, and MOST Hindus would consider a believer in Dus Vedas and unbeliever in one of the Gods as quite possibly mad, or at least a little too slow to be a respectable Hindu.

    Can you understand that? I doubt it.

    Doesn’t matter. Stay safe and remain happy in your zone. My love will always be with you whether you believe in dus vedas or whether you think ‘last prophet’ means lusty prophet like one gentleman you know very well, or any other such thing. No skin off my nose.

    In return, I have told you my honest opinion which you should allow me to hold (if you had any morals – which is for your to discover): you are clueless, follow neither Islam nor Hinduism, and will NEVER EVER be accepted as Muslims because accepting you as Muslims will mean the death of Islam.

    I hope those opinions don’t sound certifications, or speaking like God etc to you, but then you follow Ahmadi religion, and none of us can speak for you. So simply follow your heart.

    Have a good, day, evening, night, or whatever suits you with my love for you which is taller than the tallest, wider than the widest, deeper than the deepest, and higher than the highest.

  26. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    KAALCHAKRA,
    what ever rubbish you have written above, in the end you lost kaal bhai, otherwise why run like that, good luck, takecare and ~~~~~~~WHATEVER~~~~~

  27. AKB Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Mirjai imposters and heretics

    .
    Kaalchakra is NOT a sick man…you all are. KC spoke the truth which is evidently indigestible for your rotten digestive and nervous system, hence you carped over him like ugly vultures. Yes, KC is right in that you cannot compare a rogue faux frofet, admittedly a sick and impotent man who died in the toilet after losing his own prophesy. Prophet Muhammad is revered by one and all as Muslims are told to revere all deities and beliefs of other faiths. Quran clearly states [” to you your (religion) me mine”…..wtf is this mirjai lot on to??? The more they cry the more they will get kicked in their crotches not only by Muslims but Hindus, Christians, Sikhs and others.

    shame on mirjai liars, cheats, imposters, heretics and belligerent lot of most corrupt molvi mentality of all!!

  28. truth power Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    akb, where were you , feeling sick, seeing you after a very long time, did Gods wrath actually came on you , well if yes dont be shy be a man and tell us all… come on, the audience deserves truth, the time for unreasonable and absurd debates from you guys is over, we all deserve the “”"TRUTH”"”, come on be a man…

  29. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ truth paw
    .

    Well, since you have asked me I must hasten to end your curiosity by telling you that I was having very good time with my Mirjai galfriend.
    Honestly, the pleasure she gives is astounding….and I like it better than wasting my time here kicking the badasses here on this forum.
    My mirjai galfriend is prepared to convert to Islam and says Mirja Ghulla was nothing but a stooge planted by the colonial british and who played with words and etymology to screw differnt faiths and above all Muslims so that the could win reward for his evil deed from his british masters,
    according to her the mirjai’s are worse than deobandi mullahs and force on her such conditions which are not only inhuman but insult to women. consequently she wants to repent and enter my ‘fold’. No way i can refuse her! She is soooo sexy and co operative in bed!!

  30. parliament certified muslim United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    I hereby address the following non-Muslims debating here:
    1) Mahee
    2) AKB
    3) Kaalchakra
    I do not recognize you as Muslims because you can not produce the certificate of Islam issued by the Parliament of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and endorsed by the Mumlikat al Saudia al Arabia al Islamia al Wahabia al Salafia.

    Mahee !! You are a non-Muslim because you have admitted that you are an Ahmadi/Qadiani/Mirzai. And for your information, you people were declared non-Muslims in 1974 by Hazrat Z. A. Bhutto Shaheed, by means of a constitutional amendment, backed and supported by His Holy Majesty the King of Mumlikat al Saudia al Arabia al Islamia al Wahabia al Salafia.

    AKB !! I have judged you a non-Muslim for 2 reasons. 1) Your name is “AKB”, which is an Arabic word, meaning “backside”. No Muslim will ever adopt such a vulgar name. 2) You always seem to be in agreement with Kaalchakra.

  31. kaalchakra United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Brother PCM

    You have the perfect, complete, unabridged right to judge us all non-Muslims, just as the Pakistani state – a representative of Pakistani people – has a right to declare Ahmadis to be non-Muslims and to ensure that Ahmadis do not pose as followers of Islam in a country that attempts to base itself in the great religion of Islam. Ahmadis are ALWAYS MOST WELCOME to abandon any and all associations with Ahamdism, Ahmadi figures, personalities, ideas, and tactics; accept Islam, and then call themselves as Muslims. Islam is a universal idea and does not discriminate among people that way.

    I hope that removes your perennial confusion, finally, my certified brother :)

  32. kaalchakra United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Certified Brother, also, Islam clearly tells us that a non-believer in Islam, who is honest about his non-belief in Islam, is by many orders of magnitude, better than a munafiq, that is, an Ahmadi who claims to follow Islam.

    This focus on religious honesty is something that you and I need to admire. Please don’t blame AKB or any other Muslim for it.

  33. parliament certified muslim United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Kaalchakra

    Then why are you posing to be a Muslim ? And unlike you Ahmadis are hardened to the core; no matter how much we thrash them in Pakistan they refuse to repent and give up “Islam”.

  34. kaalchakra United States Safari  Android 4.0.4 LG-MS770 Build/IMM76I says:

    Certified Brother, I hope I have never hidden that I am not a Muslim (yet).
    If my Ahmadi brothers and sisters are the hardened ones, good for them if that is what they want. They have all my love. Because of my love for them I gently point out the many and extreme absurdities of their thought.

  35. truth power Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    kaal chakra,
    reeallly, while gently pointing out the extreme absurdities in ahmadi thought, you completely forget the outrageous absurdities in your thought! and not to mention your highly incoherent argument about proving why ahmadis are not muslims! you are non believer of islam and by so many means better than me!please honourable nonbeliver of islam, throw some light on “”WHY AHMADIS ARE NOT MUSLIMS” cut the rubbish talk ,and come to the point! by no means is the pakistani govt the deciding body on matters of faith, so come up with something sensible!!!

  36. kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Dearest Ahmadi Brother

    Pakistani government is the deciding body for itself, not for you. So long as it can, it will decide. When you dear Ahmadis form Pakistan’s government (or the New World Government Under Ahmadis – as envisaged by your most beloved and most respected Khalifas), you can un-decide, or decide as you please, for yourselves and for others.

    Nothing at all could be fairer, or more reasonable.

  37. parliament certified muslim United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @kaalchakra

    {{Brother PCM You have the perfect, complete, unabridged right to judge us all non-Muslims}}

    Not good enough. My right to judge you all “non-Muslims” is also “unchallengeable”, which you should also acknowledge.

  38. truth power Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    kaalchakra,
    i would be happy when you seriously let me know those serious issues that bother you about ahmadism!if i can somehow give some convincing answers it will help me become better!i am not forcing you into ahmadism in any way!i just want to know what seriously bothers you!i just want clear some air between us!please let me know atleast know what has provoked so much hatred in your mind about ahmadism!
    have a good day..

  39. Khan United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @parliament certified muslim
    .
    The following dialogue, reported by a parliament-certified Muslim, took place between two parliament-certified Muslims on top of a bridge:
    .
    He said, “Nobody loves me.”
    I said, “Allah loves you. Do you believe in Allah?”
    He said, “Yes, of course.”
    I said, “Are you a Muslim or a non-Muslim?”
    He said, “Muslim.”
    I said, “Me, too! Shia or Sunni?”
    He said, “Sunni.”
    I said, “Me, too! What mazhab?”
    He said, “Hanafi.”
    I said, “Me, too! Deobandi or Barelvi?”
    He said, “Barelvi.”
    I said, “Me too! Tanzeehi or Tafkeeri?”
    He said, “Tanzeehi.”
    I said, “Me, too! Tanzeehi Azmati or Tanzeehi Farhati?”
    He said, “Tanzeehi Farhati.”
    I said, “Me, too! Tanzeehi Farhati Jamia-tul-Uloom Ajmer, or Tanzeehi Farhati Jamia-tul-Noor Mewat?”
    He said, “Tanzeehi Farhati Jamia tul Noor Mewat.”
    I said, “Go to hell, kaafir!” and pushed him off the bridge.

  40. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    any Muslim is a heretic and perhaps a kafir if he alters or deviates from the fundamental tenets of Islam. Sects may differ in secondary matters of faith but Mirzai’s hit at the very root of Islam, hence they are pucca kafirs!!
    for more info go to http://www.irshad.com

  41. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    Mirzai’s declare ALL Muslims as Kafirs…..how funny!!
    They raised a new frofet from Qadian, Indian Punjab…how crazy!!
    Mirzai’s condemned the beliefs of Muslims, Hindu’s and Christians and all other relgions……how stupid!
    Mirzai’s imitate the scriptures and practices of Muslims….how outrageous!!
    Mirzai’s lent themselves as slaves of the colonial British and tried to frustrate the struggle of Independence as begun by Muslims and Hindus alike and then their molvi leader Mirza Ghulla asked for rewards from the British ….how shameful!!
    Mirzai’s ARE pucca Kafirs…no doubt about it.

  42. mahee United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    akb,
    is a pucca musalman for sure, all this hatred and intolerance he spreads.all this abuse he renders world with!he is the real muslaman,country should be proud of him!he is the leader of all shia killings in the country because they are semi muslims and have no right to live on earth like kaafir qadiyaniis.thats exactly what was written in quran,according to akb, to kill every non muslim!convert their women forcibly!
    Mirzai’s imitate the scriptures and practices of Muslims….how outrageous!oh my god!how outrageous it is to follow scriptures of islam.it is the worst thing for a pucca musalman to see,his religion being followed by kaafirs.
    mirza ghulam ahmed being the first muslim to invite british queen towards islam!how dare he right akb.either queen is so pathetic that she couldnt be called towards islam or either mirza sahab is!nonetheless islam is not for any pathetics,it is just the forte of pucca musalmans like akb.
    mirzais started the struggle for independence of kashmiri muslims from hindu kings tyrranical rule!how the hell did they dare those bloody kaafirs.right AKB(pucca muslaman),the pure race is yours exterminate all others make new history!take the glory away from hitler!
    only you and just you deserve it.you have more hatred than hitler could ever have!

  43. mahee United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    akb,
    “” Mirzai’s hit at the very root of Islam, hence they are pucca kafirs!!”"
    mirzai preaching of tolerance and peaceful coexistence.love for all.AND sincere devotion for rehmatul lil alameen Hazrat Muhammad (saw) is exactly what shakes the core root of islam!believing in ALLAH and praying five times a day to him is exactly what shakes the root of islam.
    you are a pucca musalman teach me the pucca islam of yours…

  44. AKB Pakistan Opera Windows says:

    @ Muhee

    If you have nothing to say then just keep your mouth shut. I only stated what you believe. You declare all Muslmims other than Mirjai’s as kafirs. Right? You declare Mirja Ghulla as another form of Prophet Muhammd, Rama Krishna, Jesus etc ..right?? You were declared kafirs by the constitution of Pakistan and many othr countries ratified its declaration as true. right? You disregard jihad as holy war for Muslims. right?? you established a caliphate of your own from Punjab molvis. right? You a negligible handful of deviates want to rule over the entire Umma. Right? You imitate the scriptures and practices of Muslims. Right?? so with admittedly so many deviations which none other sect of Muslims can digest (not even the Hindus respect you for your disloyalty to Muslims) how can you say I abused the Mirjai’s??
    Offering Namaz etc is NOT the only way to being a good Musalmaan. You relish in your fake piety and that won’t serve your vile ends. Peace is preached by all religions , you are no special.

  45. Dark Knight Pakistan Safari iPad says:

    @AKB (February 19, 2013 at 2:28 am)
    //…Offering Namaz etc is NOT the only way to being a good Musalmaan…//
    True. You too, might well be offering namaz, but of course, your language, your decency and your manners, remind us of anything but a “good Muslim”.
    //…You relish in your fake piety and that won’t serve your vile ends…//
    Ahmadis, you may like to note, do not claim piety. They only claim that the prophecy made by Hazrat Muhammad [saw] regarding the promised advent of Imam Mahdi, has been fulfilled.
    //…Peace is preached by all religions , you are no special…//
    Peace, is indeed, preached by all religions, because all religions were revealed by God. And anyway, nobody is claiming to be special here. Stop throwing fits please.

  46. Khan United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    @AKB

    Mirzai’s declare ALL Muslims as Kafirs…..how funny!!

    Ahmadis believe that anyone who calls himself a “Muslim”, is unquestionably a “Muslim”. Ahmadis believe that, in terms of religious identity. it is not for any mortal to declare anyone anything that he himself does not profess. Nothing funny.

    They raised a new frofet from Qadian, Indian Punjab…how crazy!!

    According to the Ahmadis, it was God, and not the Ahmadis, who raised the Promised Mahdi in Qadian. Nothing crazy.

    Mirzai’s condemned the beliefs of Muslims, Hindu’s and Christians and all other relgions……how stupid!

    Ahmadis believe that there is a need for reform in all religious denominations, including the denominations of Muslims. Ahmadis believe that there is also a need for a revival of the original true revealed teachings of all revealed religions. This is not stupid.

    Mirzai’s imitate the scriptures and practices of Muslims….how outrageous!!

    Ahmadis believe that all revealed books were revealed by the same One True God, and all continue to contain words of wisdom. However, Ahmadis also believe that among all the revealed scriptures of God, it is only the Quran whose text remains perfectly preserved and unaltered.

    Mirzai’s lent themselves as slaves of the colonial British and tried to frustrate the struggle of Independence as begun by Muslims and Hindus alike and then their molvi leader Mirza Ghulla asked for rewards from the British ….how shameful!!

    Ahmadis believe that Islam requires its followers to be law-abiding and peaceful and to be obedient towards the government in worldly matters.

    Mirzai’s ARE pucca Kafirs…no doubt about it.

    Ahmadis are true Muslims and true believers. No doubt about it.

  47. ExWho India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    AKB received the typical pakistani indoctrination of downgrading and hating non-muslims and non-sunnis. There is no way you can talk to him on the basis of reason and facts. AKB represents the downfall of islam and Pakistan. And it will become worse in days and years to come.

  48. AKB Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ Khan
    I didn’t know you were a liar as well. Read the statements printed in the writings of your faux frofet and his socalled caliphs or the quotations from them cited with reference in the judgement of SC Pakistan and elsewhere,,,,,,,how can you deny the declarations of the rogues you follow unless you learnt to lie from them??
    go to http://www.irshad.com for evidence if you can’t find the outrageous remarks of your fake ‘spearheads’ …..this will remove the ignorance you are in.

  49. AKB Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ Khan and other Mirzai’s

    A Muslim is NOT a Muslim if his conduct disapproves the teachings of his faith. For example, a pig eater cannot be a Muslim, why shouldn’t another Muslim (or even a Hindu or Christian) judge that by the other’s conduct?? A deviate from the fundamental beliefs of Islam is NOT a Muslim; any person who declares others as kafirs except him is NOT a Muslim; a urine drinker is NOT a Muslim, a person is NOT a Muslim if he eats or drinks anything forbidden by the Quran,,,so easy to judge!
    While living in a Muslim majority country it is so easy to catch a deviate Muslim whose conduct does what the Quran and Sunnah forbid him to do.
    Even a non Muslim can judge a Muslim from a non Muslim by his very conduct anywhere in the world. this is why the Mirjai’s are looked down upon by Hindus and Christians as traitors and heretics ,,,who tried to induct innovations and ulterior modifications in the fundamental beliefs of Muslim faith to which ALL Muslims except the Mirzai’s adhere to.

  50. AKB Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @
    Dark Knight

    You are just a pee-puking thumb sucking brat!

    .
    Not only all religions preach peace but even the atheist implore peace.
    There is NO such thing as Imam Mehdi……if he has appeared then let ALL humans see it—Muslims, Hindus, Jews and Isaees and ALL!
    As you say he has arrived what the heck is he doing?? Nothing!

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