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Sorry Bangladesh
Raza Habib Raja
Sixteenth December arouses radically different sentiments in two different and yet related countries of the world. In one, it is cherished and celebrated and in the other it is just “ignored” and of course deliberately.
But then the significance of this day differs so much for each of the aforementioned countries of the world. For one it is the day of victory (though their official Independence Day is March 26, 16th December is celebrated as the Victory Day) and for other, it is the day of a humiliating defeat which they will like to forget. It is the day when the cherished army made up of so called martial race belonging to the latter was overwhelmed within one month.
It is a day which ideally should never be forgotten by latter country Pakistan but given its tendency to conveniently ignore the inconvenient truth, it is perhaps expected. While our history text books scream about 1965 war with India, they hardly say a word about 1971’s humiliating defeat and more importantly as to what had actually led to the fateful year.
All our history, the one which is taught, is silent about what was happening in East Pakistan during 1950s and 1960s. Our history just talks about West Pakistan and in doing so merely reflects what exactly was happening TO East Pakistan: It was being ignored completely. And when we finally turned attention, it was not to redress their grievances but to undertake an army operation which could be easily called a massacre as well. And of course the official history does not talk about it and even if you go through the popular “unofficial” version you will find that most of the blame would be placed on Mukti Bahni and Indian conspiracies to break Pakistan.
It is only if you start reading some books by the foreign authors or some of the more objective Pakistani writers that a different narrative starts to emerge. And needless to say that even if you read credible writers and objective accounts that narrative is radically different from the official Pakistani version.
Pakistanis had mistreated Bengalis and that mistreatment progressively became worse as the time went by. It started with the denial of freedom to Bengalis to choose a national language and then started to seep into economic domain. Bengalis particularly felt left out in the matters of governance and decision making. And it was this feeling of deprivation which ultimately manifested into secession based movement.
It should have been remembered that humans generally do not have a single identity but rather multiple identities. Which identity actually would actually be at the forefront at a particular time would depend on a host of complicated factors and perception of discrimination, whether real or nor, is one of the most potent ones. Ethnicity, defined on the lines of language and cultural homogeneity within a group has always been a very strong identity. If an ethnicity feels that it is being discriminated due to its ethnicity, then that becomes the foremost identity and also the rallying point.
And then there is the concept of ethnic nationalism. Nationalism is not merely preservation of identity; it is very much intertwined with the concept of state. If state is perceived as unjust then nationalists will try to create their own state and thus would try to secede. Ernest Gellener actually defines nationalism in the context of injustice. The deprived and excluded if belonging to some common ethnicity will revolt and will form nationalist expression built around that ethnicity and may end up striving for a state of its own.
Let’s not forget that Bengalis were at the forefront of the Pakistan movement. To declare that they did not want Pakistan would be completely incorrect. However, while opting for Pakistan, their cultural as well ethnic identity though for the time being relegated did not simply vanish. And it came out dormancy when State began its exclusion based on that identity.
And we had more than two decades to redress the grievances by giving them a share in the governance and to ensure their greater participation in the national decisions which invariably affected them, but bent on centralization, we did not. We created one unit system, which according to many independent observers, was a twin pronged strategy to negate their population advantage and also to negate the ethnic diversity with in Western Pakistan.
And then when Awami League won the elections, we refused to give them their share of power and later on went on to conduct a military operation which resulted in wide scale loss of human lives.
It is our fear of plurality, particularly the perception that autonomy on ethnic lines would break up Pakistan that made us do all that back then and which continues to make us do similar things to provinces like Baluchistan.
So we have not learnt the critical lesson. We continue to believe that autonomy will break up Pakistan completely overlooking the key historical evidence: lack of autonomy will actually break Pakistan. And even if inhabitants of Baluchistan are not able to actually secede due to lack of military means, in their hearts they will hate Pakistan with increasing intensity.
As pointed out quite eloquently by Mr. Stephen Cohen in his book “The Idea of Pakistan” that Pakistani leaders have not fully grasped that in an ethnically diverse state most politics is of identity and closely linked to issues of pride, status, jobs and social equality. They seem convinced that ethno-linguistic demands are an economic problem, not a political, problem, and if other means fail, a military problem
Civil wars evoke a lot of emotions and subsequently the historical accounts reflect those emotional biases. Exactly how many died during the war of 1971 will always be a matter of dispute and both sides will claim radically different numbers. It is hardly surprising that estimates range from less than ten thousand to over a million.
How many were killed will remain a matter of dispute but even if no one was killed, the point is that we did an injustice by not giving Bengalis their due share and denied them their rights.
Nations move on only by embracing their past blunders and acknowledging their grave mistakes. Only through acknowledgement do we set our future direction right. A very important step towards this embracement and acknowledgement is to apologize to those who have faced the brunt of those mistakes. Yes, sorry is difficult but nevertheless an important step towards making peace with a very bitter part of our history. Sorry requires a lowering of ego but our misplaced ego has always been our worst enemy.
Yes sorry wont compensate whatever has been done and there is a possibility that many Bengalis won’t even accept it for not being enough. But then to say sorry is our duty and to forgive is their choice. And when it is a matter of duty, it has to be done irrespective of whether the counter party exercises its choice or not.
The real sorry has to come from Pakistan’s government..but I will nevertheless say it..
We are Sorry Bangladesh…
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It is a complex form of training by the society to completely disregard the ethnic roots and go after an alien/ transnational ideology funded by petro dollars over decades….Ultimately when society realizes that this concept has taken Frankenstein proportions very monstrous in nature, it is too late
Gentlemen realize this and perhaps initiate reforms within your own society. Understand that a Malayali muslim is NOT a Kashmiri Muslim the way a Kanyakubj Brahmin is NOT a Gaud Saraswat Brahmin
unfortunately people are intoxicated by the propagators of the book! idiots should wake up enmasse!!
Problem with Fair skinned Pakis is they never tolerated and perhaps will never tolerate dark skinned but intelligent bengalis ( be it muslim or hindu for that matter)
It is another matter that these fair skinned bodies have dark cowdung filled all over their head that fails to recognize enormous depletion in economy, self pride and perhaps concept of nation itself in the long run perhaps by 2020
End Wahabbi / Salafi indoctrination. RESPECT KUFFRS
To hiob,
Bro, I partially disagree on the context of your explanation on Islam. You exemplified human’s barbarism, errors with Islam!
Dear Bro,
Have you ever seen any Religion that support Violence, Barbarism or anything illogical? Guess Not! There is no Religion in this universe that Bias us to be BAD whether it’s Hinduism or Islam. Almost all the Religion reflects Peace as the key to the happiness. Isn’t it?
If I do anything illogical or barbaric, only I should be held for that responsibility not my Religion. Because, my religion don’t tell me to Slaughter, Rape or else!
What if you killed a man today? Should I point my finger to your Religion that being belongs to that Religion you’ve turned to be a Evil? No way! Only the ignorant can say like this not an educated soul.
There are both BAD & GOOD in this universe. All you need to follow the good one not the bad one.
But, the Reality is, there are very few people in this Earth who can think Rationally and most of them are Mass people. It’s the common human instinct that make people to be greedy, irrational when they are in Power!
In this Indian subcontinent, the people who were in power f fed us tons of Lies to make us believe that and to make us their Puppet! We the general people were never been happy from the beginning and till now!! In fact, we love to be puppet by those greedy retards as we don’t like acknowledge the truth.
Regards
to murshed
You have an idealized version of religion or religions in your mind. Religions do tell humans to kill humans. This is especially true of islam. Every religion contains some fascism. The worst case again here is islam.
This idea of “you don’t criticize my religion and I don’t criticize yours” has pushed us ALL down the road of more fascism and hypocrisy in the name of some god or prophet or holy book etc.
A muslim is quite incapable of seing anything bad in islam – he lacks the courage, intelligence and honesty necessary for it. Islamic propaganda takes care that a muslim will be a mental slave of this old totalitarian ideology, and all the damage that this 7th century arab ideology does will be either ignored by him or accused on some “erring” individuals or to some evil conspiracies by non-muslims. No muslim dares be honest in this matter. You are no different in this. Hence islam will remain a curse on us all. Even we non-muslims are badly affected by islam’s aggressivity and expansionism, irrationality and briberies, intimidations and ruthlessness. Muslims suffer too, but they either blame the non-muslims for it or convert themselves into masochists for the sake of the arab god’s glory and defence. The desire to die or kill for islam is a result of this cowardice among muslims.
To Amin,
Only the sufferer knows how much it pains. Being a Pakistani, if you want to defend the claim against the Evil deeds of that Barbaric PAK Army back then in 1971, you’ll definitely be misled! Neither It’s about the present day people of Pakistan nor their Army. It’s all about those Bloody maniacs Back then in 1971. If you want to defend by indicating the killing of those Traitors who aid PAK Army in killing the mass people of their own, then it must not be taken in account! Could you ever pardon those Traitors without any punishment! Don’t say that you could! You need to take in account that It was a “War of Independence” We cannot let off those Bastards without being Punished. Although Sheikh Mujibur Rahman declared Amnesty (Official Pardon) to them just after the end of the war, and now we young generation Want them Hang through Transparent Trial for their Evil deeds in 1971.
“If there is violence between two parties then the defenders’ violence cannot be equated with the offenders’ violence.” Do we clear in this context?? Guess so!
Thank You!
For humanity to grow, they just transcend the mumbo jumbo of religion/s and move to the spiritual standards which grant infinite possibilties to understand , realize and enjoy the supreme bliss, supreme truth and supreme reality. There is nothing more insulting and degrading to human and Godhood to be presented in negative terms. A threatning Goodhood, claiming to the finality of Infinite etc are meant for immature , underdevolped mind, for children and must be seen in this context. KG teachers use such methods , lets not try to apply these to the grown ones who have developed the capacity to think, argue and use their own intutive knowledge, strength and intelligence to figure out the truth. Truth, Supreme Truth ,Mature, high Truth is self eveident and need no help, crutches, man or Book which must comply with Truth and not other way around . Not much harm in having crush on KG teacher as long as it goes away with maturity and not become psychological issue and do much harm for the detriment of one’s own self and others.
To hiob,
Dear Bro,
Again you’re off the track! Let me clear. Fascism is the Dark form of a Religion. As I said earlier, the problem lies in us! It’s all about stubbornness to acknowledge the real fact. Fascist loves to be in the world of their own that is full of illusions and so unreal. In Islam, there is clear instruction to Respect other Religions. There is no instruction to abuse others by misusing the Term “non-muslim”. In the Undivided Indian Subcontinent, there were lots of turmoils between Fascist Muslims and Hinds.Most probably it’s only reason that gives Rise to INDO-PAK Rivalry! There are fascist both in Muslims and Hindus whom are totally Wrong headed personal with Wrong Conjecture. Problem lies in them not in their Religion.
As you’re consistently blaming on Muslims for fascism, then what about the “Janata Party leader Subramanian Swamy”?? Is he okay with his controversial Article? Isn’t he the one who proposed to capture the lands of Bangladesh according to the Ratio of Illiberal Bangladeshi living in India?? WTF is this? Is it Hinduism or fascism Dear Bro? Don’t say that it’s completely Okay! According to his Bullshit, all developed countries where illegal Muslim workers without Work Permit are living in should capture according to the ratio of those respective Muslim Countries. If this so, then what about illegal Indian workers abroad? Most probably he should consul with a Psychiatrist immediately and a burning example of Fascism by your countryman!
So, should I say all Hindus are like that? No way! Some best friends of mine are Hindu and we never bother whether I’m Muslim or they are Hindu. If someone bother, then it will be his/her Personal Problem not the Religion! This is what I want you to understand. Hope you got my point.
Regards
@ Manzur Murshed
Hiob is a troll and it is better to ignore him..
To Sachbol
Good job Bro. This is what I want to let others know and think on.
If we all could ever think like this, then this Universe won’t be considered as Hell anymore. May Almighty endows us with passion and to be rational.
@ RHR
May be a bit. Anyways, I’ve tried my best to make people understand about the real fact. It’s high time for us to move on.
Regards
Syed Md Manzur Murshed
Reading just your last few posts, yours appears to be a voice of sanity. Best.
Dear RHR, Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullah
You may like to know that the Prophet Muhammad in his last sermon before his death, according to reliable Hadith collector, said,”….. All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a White has no superiority over a Black nor does a Black have any superiority over a White except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood……..”. I am sure one can apply the same principle to W.Pakistanis and Bangla Deshis also.
Yahya Khan, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and others simply remember this and paid a terrible price.
I am glad at least YOU are saying “sorry for the terrible crime that was committed in the name of country and religion 4 decades ago.
Wa Salaam
Sorry for the Typo! I should have said, “Yahya Khan, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and others simply did NOT remember this and paid a terrible price…”
Kamath
Why can’t be God be one and many at the same time? There is nothing that God should not be able to do.
Where does god live? Does he live at one place or many places or all places? Why can’t god be present in all the places at the same time?
to RHR and murshed
I don’t think it is fair to call me names and denigrate me. You may not like what I say or how I say it – but to call me a troll is a hit below the belt.
I have come to the conclusion that islam is a fascist ideology by reading pakistani muslim newspapers. By calling me a troll you are joining those who have made criticism of islam look like a crime or an act of foolishness. The damage domne by islam to mankind is too great (and more is to follow) to be dismissed like that. Please stick to the path of decency in discussions. Murshed can make his own judgement(s) about me – you don’t have to bias him against me.
—
To murshed
I am not talking about the failures of or by humans in the first place. Fascist hindus, muslims, christians, sikhs etc. – that is all a result of some deep-deeper malady. I am urging everyone to look deeper instead of blaming human beings. Islam is presently the most aggressive, arrogant and deceitful ideology. Other ideologies and religions are less dangerous (but not quite harmless).
Islam contains some inherent (unreformable, uneliminable) fascisms in its very arrogant foundations and totalitarian axioms and basic expansionist attitudes and history-writing. That is why the so-called liberal muslims have never won against the islamofascists. In fact all attempts to reform islam have only ended up strengthening the islamofascists all over the world. The liberal muslims have neither the will nor the ability to change this course of islam.
Islamic history-writing is a story of lies upon lies to glorify and justify islam and muslims and denigrate, vilify and humiliate non-muslims. Any muslim who doubts islamic history-writing must reckon with social punishment and the fear of landing in the eternal hell of the arab god.
The discussions on all muslim forums suffer under this. So you can understand why RHR calls me a troll. He has no arguments to refute me. He knows that he dare not accept what I write as true. Many boycott and refuse to read or answer what I write. It shows what kind of a society islam (=submission= mental slavery) leads to.
Ridiculing me is not going to help pakistani(zed) HUMAN beings.
God bless Bangladesh – Amen.
It occurred to me that when east pakistan , ie bangladesh and west pakistan (aka pakistAN) were together, atleast we had excellent civil servants and a civilized civil service of pakistan..
now we have, with few odd and achhute exceptions we habve bureaucRATS wgho are a diagrace to civilized service iof pakistan.
However I also notice that one thing has not changed even an iota bit… i used to type badly before 1971 and i type just as badly after l971,
tut=-tut pre-1971, tut-tut post-1971.
[...] Sorry Bangladesh [...]
to hjob,
Islam is the religion of Peace. And, you’re trying hard and soul to Prove it as the opposite by fooling around some facts of recent time. You’re exemplifying those facts that are made by some Corrupted and hideous people. Bu, you might have forgotten that Islam is the religion from Ancient times with enrich history of its own.
You said other religions are better than that of Islam! May I know how do you come to this conclusion?? Isn’t it your own judgement that is full with Illusion, hatred against Islam and moreover, body of Lies! To make a judgement, you need to go through the fact at first and, only then you can judge. So, please go through the holy books of Islam written by famous Muslim Scholars of all the time. Don’t just go through some piece of Provocative Rabbis produced by anti-Muslim punks and make a judgement!
I do respect your religion whatever it is but I
to hjob,
I do respect your religion whatever it is but I’m really shocked at your approach to criticize a religion without knowing the truth. As a result, you missed the whole thing and make it a solid Body of lies and hatred, nothing else. Believe me, your voice just reflect the anti-Muslim hatred but nothing else.
Anyways,I should give you a Bravo for your consistent attempts of Provocation.
“I Would Like to Request Everyone to Have a Look on hjob Post and Mine. Then, you can easily Understand who Missed the Line by a Mile!”
Regards
Syed Manzur Murshed
That sir is the biggest joke anybody can make. It is called Religion of Peace in irony.
I don’t know whether you were living in a hole, but if you look at Pakistan, you will see how much violence is perpetrated in the name of Islam. You will see how Pakistan sends terrorists to India to kill innocent people. You will see the whole world fighting Islamic terrorists around the globe. Those who come and massacre innocents in Mumbai were from Lashkar-e-Taiba, which means the Army of the Righteous.
Tell this joke to a non-Muslim, and he will agree with you in order to avoid panga with you, or he will just laugh in your face.
Religion of Peace! He-He-He! That was a real nice one!
He meant Armed Legion for others piece of land. Once acquired push them out of rest of their land.
He meant Armed Legion of piss. Piss on native’s language. Piss on native’s history. Piss on native’s Taxila and Nalanda. Piss on natives 9 storied libraries. Piss on natives decimal system, Bej Ganit, Calculus and Bhumiti. Piss on their Sage Gargi, Mathematician Leelavati. Piss on native’s 12 Balutedari. Piss on native’s concept of land belonging to whole village. Piss on native’s heroes such as Shivaji, Rana Pratap and Guru Govind Singh, who fight alien brutes……
But you know what? World is waking up to this GMasti for Darbari Gaddi. Chinese are wiping out this GMasti physically. Russia is quarantining it. India needs to give a Jor Ka Zataka Haloo Se! This booked GMasti is too brittle to survive another 50 years.
Happy days are here again!
to Raj,
Pathetic fellow!
Well, Pakistan suffers on their Own Mistakes. But, What about your non-Muslim brothers from Israel,USA,India and others?? They must be fighting for their holy counties for all Holy Causes! Great..What Should I say! You guys only know to be fascist. It doesn’t matter whether you’re from Pakistan or others.
Please carry on your anti-Muslim Provocation here. Keep it up!
All Jokers here!
House Slaves always praise their masters. Even some field slaves are made to believe that they are house slaves.
Quote:
“Of course,” he added hastily, “we are only killing the Hindu men. We are soldiers, not cowards like the rebels. They kill our women and children.”
Quote:
Reacting to the almost successful breakaway of the province, which has more than half the country’s population, General Yahya Khan’s military Government is pushing through its own “final solution” of the East Bengal problem.
“We are determined to cleanse East Pakistan once and for all of the threat of secession, even if it means killing of two million people and ruling the province as a colony for 30 years,” I was repeatedly told by senior military and civil officers in Dacca and Comilla.
The West Pakistan army in East Bengal is doing exactly that with a terrifying thoroughness.
Quote:
“The Hindus had completely undermined the Muslim masses with their money,” Col. Naim, of 9th Division headquarters, told me in the officers mess at Comilla. They bled the province white. Money, food and produce flowed across the borders to India. In some cases they made up more than half the teaching staff in the colleges and schools, and sent their own children to be educated in Calcutta. It had reached the point where Bengali culture was in fact Hindu culture, and East Pakistan was virtually under the control of the Marwari businessmen in Calcutta. We have to sort them out to restore the land to the people, and the people to their Faith.”
Or take Major Bashir. He came up from the ranks. He is SSO of the 9th Division at Comilla and he boasts of a personal bodycount of 28. He had his own reasons for what has happened. “This is a war between the pure and the impure,” he informed me over a cup of green tea. “The people here may have Muslim names and call themselves Muslims. But they are Hindus at heart. You won’t believe that the maulvi (mulla) of the Cantonment mosque here issued a fathwa (edict) during Friday prayers that the people would attain ,janat (paradise) if they killed West Pakistanis. We sorted the ******** out and we are now sorting out the others. Those who are left will be real Muslims. We will even teach them Urdu.”
Quote:
In one of the most crowded areas of the entire world-Comilla district has a population density of 1,900 to the square mile-only man was nowhere to be seen.
” Where are the Bengalis ?” I had asked my escorts in the strangely empty streets of Dacca a few days earlier.” They have gone to the villages, – was the stock reply. Now, in the countryside, there were still no Bengalis. Comilla town. like Dacca was heavily shuttered. And in ten miles on the road to Laksham. past silent villages, the peasants I saw could have been counted on the fingers of both hands.
Quote:
In one sentence, the Government is too far committed militarily to abandon the East Bengal operation, which it would have to do if it sincerely wanted a political solution. President Yahya Khan is riding on the back of a tiger. But he took a calculated decision to climb up there. SO THE ARMY is not going to pull out. The Government’s policy for East Bengal was spelled out to me in the Eastern Command headquarters at Dacca. It has three elements:
(I) The Bengalis have proved themselves “unreliable” and must be ruled by West Pakistanis;
(2) The Bengalis will have to be re-educated along proper Islamic lines. The ” Islamisation of the masses “-this is the official jargon-is intended to eliminate secessionist tendencies and provide a strong religious bond with West Pakistan;
(3) When the Hindus have been eliminated by death and flight, their property will be used as a golden carrot to win over the under-privileged Muslim middleclass. This will provide the base for erecting administrative and political structure–, in the future.
This policy is being pursued with the utmost blatancy.
http://www.profile-of-bengal.com/p-b/www.profile-bengal.com/0613_71_genocide.htm
Syed Manzur Murshed,
Look you can consider Islam, religion of peace! That is fine with me! I can understand that! I don’t even want to change your own opinion! Because it is useless to try!
But if in an open forum, you say something like that, then of course others would comment from their own PoV. And from their PoV, nobody outside the Muslim world, who has some common knowledge about the state of affairs of the world, considers Islam as a Religion of Peace! It is simply a crude joke!
Now why would I comment on it? For whom is the message “Religion of Peace”? Usually internally in one’s own home one maintains peace, though one cannot really say that about Islam either, so the message of peace is relevant to only those who stand outside the tent. Islam is a religion of peace only if others, non-Muslims, believe that to be the case, and that is just not there.
Now you calling me a fascist! Why? Just because I tell you that I and billions others are not convinced of your shoddy marketing? If I don’t buy Daal at your shop, even if on the packet is written, “The Cleanest Daal Ever”, because I have had the experience of having a lot of small stones in the Daal, does that make me a fascist?
Either you are not aware of the atrocities committed in India in the last thousand years in the name of Islam, or you think they were justified! Whatever be the case, no non-Muslim would be buying that snake Oil peddled by you, that Islam is a Religion of Peace!
These are my comments on your
http://dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2011\12\28\story_28-12-2011_pg3_4
” I do not know what in the heavens did we do to deserve men like
Osama bin Laden (OBL), Ayman al-Zawahiri, and the whole lot of their
murderous band? Why men like Fazlullah, Muslim Khan, Hakeemullah
Mehsud, the Haqqanis and their throat-slitting ilk were inflicted upon
us? Why Laal Masjid (Red Mosque), Damadola, Waziristan, Mumtaz Qadri
and other breeders of suicide madness and homicide had to be nailed
into our land?”
Would you please add to the list LET Hafiz Somebody, Suharwardy of
Calcutta killing on 14-8-1946, Jinah and Iqbal. But all these are
Arabi MohaMad’s and his book’s progeny.
“Why should history have thrust us into the deadly neighbourhood of a
perpetually warring country like Afghanistan? What could not be done
by them, we and our successive leaderships did to ourselves.”
This is bound to happen when people lose their identity, culture,
language and connection to their ancestors. Can you tell us who was
Leelawati and what is her contribution even before Pythogorus. Can
you tell who was Panini and Patanjali? Where from they come? Can you
tell how many storied were the libraries of Taxila and Nalanda?
“Look at the enormity of damage all these vipers in our backyard have
done to our country and the people. Our intellectual and physical
growth has been stunted. Our so very well adjusted belief canvas has
been vengefully besmeared. Our psyche has been mauled down to a
pathetic baseness. We have long since forgotten the mannerisms of a
self-respecting friendly nation who facilitates and not impedes the
neighbourhood. We are at war with ourselves and direly threatened by
others. We are used like a Kleenex convenience and then discarded into
the dustbins of political expedience by friends and foes alike without
ever blinking an eye. The grace of positivity and helpfulness has been
withdrawn from us lest we degrade them too. The capacity to be
thankful for a favour done, express regret gracefully for a wrong
committed or accept courtesy as a matter of natural goodness is
becoming more and more scarce among us — just like a pack of wolves.
The whole environment seems to be full of despair, fear and
frustration. Why should it all happen to us?”
This is something you asked. Not by poor AllahRakhi but landed elite
like you yourself. Jinah retired to London. No wonder all your
leaders are also made in London and retire to London.
Have you wondered why a two million British Army & Police force in
India could not ensure peaceful division of India. Because you became
a ready proxy for the same imperial enslaving forces. You always
sided the alien brutes and their ideologies (Islam and Anglo racism).
How many of you went to gallows for mother India who belonged to both
Ramkali and Allahrakhi? It is the curse of those poor AllahRakhi &
RamKalis is punishing you. In recent past the killing of 3 Million
Bangalis (majority Hindu) and rape of 400,000 women in 1971, has put a
curse on you.
“If it was within one’s power, one would indict OBL and Zawahiri of
having subverted Islam and committing the cardinal sin of injecting
their particular venom into people’s faith. Banish Fazlullah,
Hakeemullah, Mangal Bagh, Mullah Omar and their followers forever from
our country.”
What you are seeing is Pure Islam inaction. These folks are genuine
Muslims. A decade back you were eulogizing them. They can be
identified from distance and killed, but devils like you are more
dangerous for humanity.
“After all, we have lived here since thousands of years in near
perfect harmony and peace amongst diverse races and religions. No one
ever persecuted anyone for his/her creed, caste or race. There was no
inquest to intern, deprive or annihilate whole communities. Since
ancient times we have been hosts to one of the world’s wealthiest
highways for trade, commerce and talented men and women to prosper
between the continents and regions. We have been the keepers of the
landward flank of the world’s spice and frankincense sea lanes passing
through the Indian Ocean. One of the world’s most accomplished
civilisations evolved here and had the privilege of an equal place of
honour with other great civilisations. It imbibed an enormous sense of
worth and responsibility in our popular subconscious. Then how come we
have degenerated to such unworthiness that other nations find it
difficult to deal honourably and equally with us?”
Who is this “we?” Is it Gangaram who builds the hospital? You made
him run away or butchered his progeny in the name of Islam and for
loot and plunder. A baluchi friend of mine says that as the % of
Hindu-Sikh dwindled so also peace and progress in Pakistan. 40%
Hindu-sikh population in 1947 is not even 1% in today’s Pakistan.
“We can and are still capable of reclaiming a part of our lost
nobility of thought, our ancient national poise and sanity, and a
modicum of responsibility and promise, but only if we are rid of these
barbarians, only if we are treated with a little more respect and
circumspection, only if we are allowed to evolve out of our dormancy
and delirium in our indigenous and time-tested manner, only if our
people’s collective wisdom is neither subverted nor ridiculed.”
Barbarian is your Islamic identity which makes you cut your own root
and become a parasite. For all these years you Muslims have been a
parasite sucking away Indian Civilization. All marauding world’s
criminals be it Anglo’s of today or Arabs of past made you parasite to
destroy India. Just wonder if Boudhi Dharma (Andhraite) who spread
the message of Goutama, the Boudha had asked Chinese to give up their
Mandarine, adopt Sankritized names, throw away organicaly developed
native spirituality (Confucian & Taoism) would there be China today?
Regards!
to murshed
“I respect yur religion and hence you must respect mine” – that old muslim tricky deceit won’t work any more.
Religions are not all one and the same and some are more fascistic than others. We have to judge religions and ideologies not by what is written in their self-glorifying books but by their results and by how they are changing to become better, whatever past bad things may have happened. I don’t insist on perfection in the past. The future is more important.
By these counts islam is definitely the most fascistic and down-trending religion and becoming worse day by day. Islam is already 1400 years old and hence has to be judged by its real performance.
We know that a muslim has to praise islam and believe in its grand declarations and self-glorifications, otherwise his muslim “brothers” will eradicate him. So we expcet very little or no honesty from a muslim in this matter.
Islam has been destroying non-arab cultures etc. since 1400 years and that proves its imperialist nature also.
We are not jokers but serious persons who are seriously worried about the “successes” which islam is having with its lies, bribes, intimidations, infiltrations, invasions and mental and intellectual molestation of muslim women, children and youth.
Ridiculing critics is typical for muslims, because a muslim has to prove his love for islam and for this he has to ridicule the critics of islam. But that is the wrong way to do it.
It is a pity that on the PTH any criticism of islam ends up being countered with abuse against the critics instead of being examined seriously. Not once did I get a response wherein any muslim agreed to examine the islam-rejecting arguments sincerely.
Since this is a pakistani muslim blog and hindus are de facto exterminated in Pakistan hence it makes no sense respecting, praising, abusing or criticisng hindu religions on the PTH.
I wonder how you will respond to this. Your response will show whether muslims are capable of honest debate.
Our anti-Islam guests here, I know and realize, are quite incapable of desisting from spewing their venom against Islam and the Holy Prophet. In fact, I feel sorry for these poor fellows. They have formed their opinions without proper study of the Quran or the Hadith. Added to this is the conduct of the violent and militant mullahs, which lends strength to the opinion of the anti-Islam lobby.
The topic, however, was “Sorry Bangladesh”. The fact is and will ever remain that we the West Pakistanis failed our East Pakistani brethren for which we should definitely be sorry. The fact is and will ever remain that if “Pakistan”, by definition, means “Muslim-majority India”, which it clearly does, then Bangladesh is as much “Pakistan” as today’s Pakistan thinks it is.
Al-Tabari, Vol. 8, p. 123
Kinanah b. al-Rabi b. al-Huqyaq who had the treasure of B. Nadir was brought to the Messenger of God, who questioned him; but he denied knowing where it was. Then the messenger of God was brought a Jew who said to him, “I have seen Kinanah walk around this ruin every morning.” The Messenger of God said to Kinanah: “What do you say? If we find it in your possession, I will kill you.” “All right,” he answered. The Messenger of God commanded that the ruin should be dug up, and some of the treasure was extracted from it. Then he asked him for the rest of it. Kinanah refused to surrender it; so the Messenger of God gave orders concerning him to al-Zubayr b. al-‘Awwam, saying, “torture him until you root out what he has.” Al-Zubayr kept twirling his firestick in his breast until Kinanah almost expired; then the Messenger of God gave him to Muhammad b. Maslamah, who beheaded him to avenge his brother Mahmud b. Maslamah.”
The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims.
Al-Tabari, Vol. 8, p. 38
Narrated Ibn ‘Umar that the Prophet (SA) said, “My livelihood is under the shade of my spear,(1) and he who disobeys my orders will be humiliated by paying Jizya”[1]
Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 4, p. 104
Amaar,
Ha! So Pakistan rejects Bangladesh’s struggle to define its identity separate from Pakistan.
You make it sound as if you just took Bangladesh’s cake once too often, and now want to make up to it.
If you want to know, what Pakistanis did in Bangladesh, why don’t you start reading something about the gory details.
http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/
Well I feel sorry for you as well, that you have been born in a repressive religion, where leaving it would earn you a death sentence for apostasy!
1) The opinions that have been formed are based on the wording for Quranic Surahs which are unmistakable in their hate for non-Muslims and women.
2) The second spoke of the understanding is based on the fact that a Muslim has to believe in ALL of the “revealed” word.
3) Thirdly, true Muslims like those from the Taliban have given sufficient proof of the “virtues” of Islam.
4) Fourthly, it has been amply observed that the more “moderate” Muslims have been unable to convince us otherwise through any logic. If “Islam-haters” have an issue with Islam, it is because of the total incompetence of the “moderate” Muslims to explain the “truth” of Islam. Don’t curse us, curse your own mental incompetence!
@MilesTo Go
To quote incidents from war situations and derive conclusions that are universal, applying to war and peace both, would not be objective analysis. War has its own ethics. Then quoting without giving the background and context, too, does not reflect very positively on your academic objectivity. Quoting from the Quran, Hadith, Bible or Gita, and quoting deliberately out of context, is not admirable but rather pathetic.
@Raaj 2
“Don’t curse us, curse your own mental incompetence”
I have not cursed you. I have only highlighted your inability to disengage yourself from your pre-existing biases. Why has that left you so uncomfortable? Regarding Bangladesh, note that when a Pakistani says he’s sorry, he obviously does so because he feels that an apology from Pakistanis to their Bangladeshi brethren is rightfully due.
to amaar
You may be personally a very decent person. But that dos not make islam good.
—
If the holy books are to be interpreted as per context then the whole book becomes out of context. This is especially true of kuran and islam since it is a political book, religion and ideology. There is virtually no connection between today and 7th century Arabia. Why interpret only some sentences in the kuran in context – why not the whole book? Then it shows itself to be very very irrelevant to today’s world. This context argument which muslim liberals like to insert in order to defend themselves and their religion is very much a double-edged sword and it also reduces the whole kuran to irrelevance. Every sentence in kuran is bound up in 7th century Arabia. All attempts to make them relevant to the present times fail. That is the reason why the muslim liberals are not able to defeat the islamofascists.
Islam does not allow muslims this minimum on honesty.
Furthermore if context arguments are allowed then it makes Mohammad’s prophethood questionable. If Mohammad really is prophet of god (the one and only god!) then ALL his words and deeds have to be exemplary for ALL times! If you claim he is the LAST prophet then this condition becomes all the more necessary and non-abjurable.
Thus you muslim liberals deliver the proof that Mohammad is neither prophet nor last prophet. Books better than kuran and leaders better than Mohammad have been “sent” to us (or have appeared) after him. The muslim however is stubbornly fixated on an irrelevant out-dated and destructive version and thus he becomes a nuisance.
@hiob (January 2, 2012 at 10:20 pm)
“…..muslim liberals are not able to defeat the islamofascists…..”
No one needs to defeat the fascists. They will eventually defeat themselves. Hatred is destined to die.
Sorry my Bangladeshi brothers.
Manzur Murshid, would an official apology by someone like Imran Khan (after coming to power) would decrease the hatred a common Bengali has for Pakistan. You rightly said current Pakistani population is not responsible for what the West Pak elite did back in 1971. So, if Khan wants to come to BD and makes an apology and highlights some future mutual plans/efforts would that be appreciated by Bengalis. He has already said many times that our government should say sorry to BD and there is a good chance that if he comes to power, he would do something as I mentioned.
One thing that at least this Pakistani will make you feel would be what your parents or grand parents had felt in 1947 about Pakistan.
Keeping the ignorant guys out, don’t you think sir 40 years is way too long to keep Islamic brothers apart. Do you approve of a confederation b/w the two countries respecting eachother’s sovereignty. What does Islam say for a repentant brother?