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At Home Nowhere

By Hamza Usman

An inevitable question Pakistanis always ask me is, “what are you?” Often, I’ve wondered the same question. Besides ‘Pakistani,’ I don’t know what else to say.  I’m not Balochi or Sindhi. I can’t speak Punjabi. In my house, besides English, Urdu is the only other language spoken. When people ask me what language my parents speak, that’s what I tell them. Unlike many of my acquaintances, I don’t come from a town or village in interior Pakistan. Like millions in Pakistan, my family migrated from India. My grandparents’ families originate from Delhi, Lucknow and Aligarh, the bastions of Urdu-speaking peoples in India. In Pakistan, I am merely a ‘Muhajir;” an Urdu speaking migrant from India, now living in Karachi.

My family, like millions of others, came to Pakistan believing Jinnah’s ideal, searching for a homeland that was ours, for all Muslims, with freedom, tolerance and dignity. During those waning years of the British Empire, freedom across the Subcontinent was not a novel idea; it was a dream that had existed for decades. Students from the Aligarh Muslim University took up the cause of an independent homeland for Muslims; the university was known for the caliber and number of intellectuals it produced espousing the cause for an independent Muslim state to exist alongside a Hindu majority one in the Subcontinent. Thinkers like Mohammad Iqbal and Sir Syed Ahmed Khan were noted luminaries associated with the institution dubbed, ‘the Oxford of the East.’ Iqbal is largely celebrated in modern day Pakistan as the first ideologue championing a united Pakistan; today, his small rectangular tomb, a simple, stone structure in hues of dark crimson and burnt sienna, ensconced between the magnificent Badshahi Mosque and the grand Lahore Fort, welcomes visitors keen to learn about Pakistan’s past; a chapter of rich, Mughal heritage often obscured by the shame of Colonialism and the turbulence of Partition.

Other notable alumni of Aligarh Muslim University include Pakistan’s first Prime Minister, killed by an assassin’s bullet in 1951. In his place as Pakistan’s second Prime Minister came Khwaja Nazimuddin, another Aligarh alumnus who was Pakistan’s second, incumbent Governor General after Mr. Jinnah’s sudden death in 1948 less than a year after Pakistan’s creation. Ghulam Mohammad, Pakistan’s third and last Governor General was also an alumnus; Ghulam Mohammad’s legacy of unchecked corruption and senility  heralded the beginning of Pakistan’s trials by promoting vice-regal politics, weakening democracy and laying the seeds for President Iskander Mirza and Field Marshal Ayub Khan to set a notorious precedent and declare Martial Law in 1958.  Coincidentally, Ayub also attended Aligarh Muslim University briefly.

One lesser known alumnus was Abu Bakr Ahmad (A.B.A.) Haleem, a noted scholar and educationist. Professor Haleem began his career in the Department of Political Science and History at Aligarh in 1923. Ayub Khan was one of students. By 1934, he was Pro-Vice-Chancellor of the University and played a pivotal role in Pakistan’s formation by serving with the All-India Muslim League until Partition. Writer Mukhtar Masood describes Professor Haleem’s welcome to Jinnah, stating, “Mr. Jinnah, we are teaching history and you are making it.” After the birth of Pakistan, Professor Haleem was appointed the first Vice-Chancellor of Sindh University at the behest of Jinnah and later, the first Vice-Chancellor of Karachi University thus filling the noble distinction of being the first Vice-Chancellor for both institutions. In addition, he served in a variety of different roles and positions for the purposes of propagating education and progress in Pakistan. I refer to Professor Haleem because he was a lesser-known luminary who contributed to forging Pakistan’s identity in its early years; he was also my Great-Grandfather.

Following in his footsteps, I too graduated in Political Science and History, and like him, moved to Paris. His association with the Sorbonne and the University of Paris inspired me as I strolled down the Boulevard St. Michel as he once would have decades before, deep in thought, stopping at the Jardins du Luxembourg to sit in silent contemplation amidst the babbling fountains and the verdant green grass. Like him, I spoke French almost fluently. Like him, I expressed a desire for multilingualism and learnt Italian. Professor Haleem spoke over five languages; he even spoke Mandarin. According to my grandfather, he was invited to China to give a speech to Chairman Mao-Zedong on Chinese history.

In the late Professor’s time, the concept of nationhood was being redefined and the notion of identity that still troubles Pakistanis surfaced.  Gandhi argued that religion could not imply a separate nation since language, customs and culture dictated that, not belief. Jinnah contended that religion defined values, customs, beliefs and ideals, thus characterizing Muslims as a separate nation. With neither side willing to budge from their respective positions, the outcome of this arduous conflict was the Partition of the Subcontinent in 1947.

Like me, Pakistan is still undergoing its identity crisis. Debate still looms whether the state is secular, as Jinnah envisioned, or Islamic, as his successors outlined. Its maturity and development into a cohesive nation has been hindered by weak democracy, military dominance in addition to poor governance, lack of resources and partisan politics. Like the former Yugoslavia, Pakistan is a federation of various ethnic groups, tribes, sects and peoples. The most poorly-defined of these groups are the so-called ‘Urdu-speaking’ Muslims that migrated to Pakistan after Partition from all over India. They are defined solely on the basis of language and stigmatized by the local, ethnic populations whose ancestors have pre-existed on Pakistani soil for centuries.

Urdu was a hybrid language growing in prominence under the Delhi Sultanate, but it wasn’t until the emergence of the Mughal Empire in 1527 that Urdu became a language of the regal court. It evolved from a derivative of Farsi to amalgamate Arabic, Sanskrit, Turkish and Hindi influences. As late as the siege of Delhi in 1857, Urdu remained a language of the elite and refined, lending much of its court-like stature to literature and poetry. Urdu speakers in places like Aligarh contributed greatly to Jinnah’s movement of an independent Muslim state in the Subcontinent. As a result, at Pakistan’s birth, Urdu was to be its lingua franca. Ostensibly, this would not only curtail any one ethnic group from dominating national affairs, it would also reinforce national identity through the use and extension of a common language, keeping the federation united.[1]

Naturally, this created tensions that still exist today. Pakistan at Partition was divided into East and West with only Urdu as its national language, however strong opposition and campaigning from Bengalis in East Pakistan made Bengali a national language during the 1950s. Pakistan’s Post-Colonial legacy ensured that English was not only its official language but lent its presence to its law courts, bureaucracy and military.  After its brutal Civil War in 1971, East Pakistan became Bangladesh and Pakistan was left with Urdu as its only national language. English remains the language of the elite, the powerful and the source of high-paying jobs. Prominent families send their children to English or American schools in the hope that acquiring this language will be a passport to success. As Zubeida Mustafa describes in The Guardian, “people believe that English is the magic wand that can open the door of prosperity. Policy-makers, the wielders of economic power and the social elites have also perpetuated this myth.[2]

And this myth affects the language spoken in my home. Today, the Urdu around me is not the Urdu spoken during Partition. At that time, Urdu’s poetic language structure, its rich vocabulary and literature was common to most speakers. My generation has been fed a bastardized version of Urdu; an Urdu with informal tenses, new verbiage, interspersed with English to create what some call “minglish,” influenced by the melting pot of Karachi’s different cultures. The Urdu I speak can barely be called Urdu; it is Urdu to get by. I can order a cup of tea but I cannot wax eloquent on anything. When I watch television, news anchors speak a strange language and I struggle to read the ticker because I was never formally taught to read Urdu and I don’t know anyone who speaks the pure Urdu that once characterized my homeland.

Pakistan was envisioned as a poly-ethnic state where religion bound peoples together. The effect of nation-building has backfired since inception because ethnic identities remain prominent. Urdu has not achieved the massive national trickle-down effect it was intended to. Urdu is the first language of only 8% of Pakistanis whereas Punjabi, is spoken by almost 50% of the population.[3] In addition, over 70 smaller provincial languages and dialects exist in Pakistan.  Today, whilst much of the mainstream media as well as state-run public schools communicate in Urdu, it is not a first-language for Pakistanis by far. Those homes with access to English find a diminished impetus for learning Urdu as pragmatism and practical exigencies dictate the study of English, primarily because all higher examinations with the exception of Islamic studies in Pakistan are based on the Western models of education.

In my case, Urdu’s oral traditions and rich cultural legacy is lost to me. In Nehru’s words, “I have become a queer mixture of the East and the West, out of place everywhere, at home nowhere.”  I cannot read Ghalib unless it’s an English translation. I cannot even read the Urdu newspaper. I read Saadat Hassan Manto, revered as one of Pakistan’s greatest writers, in English. Often I wonder what richness of language is lost to me, what word play and complex grammatical structures I shall never understand, nor the depth of connotation that one Urdu word conveys but none in English compare.

Upon my return to Pakistan in 2009, I was faced with a quandary. I wanted to document the richness of this country and its cultural heritage; I wanted to highlight its history and its crumbling monuments, preserving those stories and retelling them for a new generation that doesn’t understand what Pakistan is, or what it once was. This new generation, fed on misinterpreted views of Islam accounts for much of the radicalization of the past few decades. I realized that if I needed to undo General Zia’s legacy of Islamization, I needed to show that the people living here weren’t always militant; that before there was a homeland for Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Hindus, Parsis to name a few lived side by side in peace with Muslims.

Working for a television station, I was making a documentary film but realized my shortcomings when my co-producer handed me a script to OK. The script was written in Urdu. Like a toddler struggling with an elementary primer, I held my finger over each word trying to decipher the script, until I gave up a few lines after and told him it seemed OK to me. What else could I do? When a colleague amazingly remarked that I could speak French and Italian, I turned to her and in my broken Urdu, asked what use was it if I couldn’t speak the language of my own people?

After a few months of struggle, I left the documentary film-making world because of my language handicap and ventured toward Communications. I struggled with the bitter taste of irony, that I, privileged, educated, capable of helping this country through the miasma of failure, extremism, violence and stagnation, was powerless because I couldn’t speak the language properly.  Unlike Professor Haleem who made a difference to change Pakistan for the better, I was restricted and hindered by the same hopeful language that gave this country a voice. Today, my Urdu is mish-mashed with English incorporating more colloquial slang than literal Urdu. Like my Urdu, I find myself a mix of different peoples and personalities, Pakistani at heart, but at home nowhere.

 

 



[1] Tariq Rahman, “Language Policy, Multilingualism and Language Vitality in Pakistan,” Quaid e Azam University  << http://www.apnaorg.com/book-chapters/tariq/>> (accessed January 17 2012).

[2] Zubeida Mustafa, “Pakistan Ruined by Language Myth,” The Guardian Online, January 10, 2012, << http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jan/10/pakistan-language-crisis>> (accessed January 17 2012).

[3] Hywel Coleman, “Teaching and Learning in Pakistan: The Role of Language in Education,” Islamabad: The British Council, 2010.




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85 Responses to "At Home Nowhere"

  1. rex minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Raj

    I do not know what is taught in Pakistan schools and madrassas? No one teaches hate in madrassas or in the house of God. And I do know as well that the world is full of lunatics and the propaganda machinery is in full swing, more so in the western media than that in the east.

    The former colonialists and the imperialist under the banner of democracy, secular Govts and the so called Western Values are on the march once again destabilising the underdeveloped countries.

    Let us recall that secular Govts in Europe were brought about by Hitler and Mussolini under an agreement with the Pope.

    The arab youth most under twenty five are asking for dignity and freedom, while the yanks are pouring out cash to influence the outcome of the spring revolution. India and Pakistan, the two nuclear powers are at loggerhead with each other and all indications are, based on the dialogue between declared Indians and Pakistanis it would seem that in this decade most of the south east residents are unlikely to survive in the next conflict. People of both countries have inherent disputes to settle and any outsider who expresses a sincere and balanced opinion is pushed to one or the other camp. I have watched you pushing an Aussie and ex communal has pushed me to the Pakistan camp.
    As long as people have respect for the humans, all disputes can be resolved. People of all nations resist force! Hate is likely to destroy the one who hates and not the one who is hated.

    Take care and peace be with you. But remember that ladies must at all times be repected though I know that in IndoPak societies they do not enjoy a preferential treatment!

    Rex Minor

  2. observ Germany Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Rex minor sometimes writes as if he is a bootlicker of europeans and sometimes he is venomously against them. He detests and ridicules indians/hindus at every possible opportunity to do so. He promulgates a naive arab-centric islam which does not and cannot exist, but he wants that everyone should look at him as the guiding light. He is a bootlicker of arabs and an adorer of muslim marauders. He wants that we should waste our lives reading some arab book.

  3. rex minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Observ
    I personaly do not and I have never come across any one who ridicules others. People ususaly ridicule themselves; welcome to the club of ridicules!

    Rex Minor

  4. no-communal United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Raj is rude, beyond doubt, and Lady Guinevere’s anger is justified. He is a Hindu chauvinist the same way Rex Minor (who has suddenly started showing his ignorance in all things Pakistani) is a Muslim chauvinist. But the former has a short fuse and the latter hides it better under the cloak. Interesting they both live in Germany and are love-birds.

  5. observ Germany Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    to rex

    You ridicule indians/hindus repeatedly and then claim you don’t do it. You have some problems of self-perception. Reading your posts gives the impression that you have an unstable intelligence. You often end up criticizing something on someone that was not written by the person whom you are aiming at. This is the case of a de-stabilized mind. I hope you take this criticism (which may be wrong) in an open-minded manner. I do not wish to hurt you, but it is better not to flatter someone out of politeness and thus prevent him (help him) from going astray. If my citicism is wrong then please ignore it.

  6. Raj TOO Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Bade Miyan wrote:

    “You will lose your already low-paying job!” Isn’t that unwarranted abuse?

    Check her post from earlier, when she tries to provoke moderators to act against me!
    That was a response to that!

    I keep my count of cause and effect, action and reaction!

  7. Raj TOO Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Lady Guinevere,
    I repeat, if I have abused you, all you need to do is point it out, and I’ll tell you why!

    I’ve not taken any initiative to abuse you just for the heck of it!

  8. Raj TOO Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    rex minor wrote:

    I do not know what is taught in Pakistan schools and madrassas?

    rex minor,
    what AKB speaks of, his gutter language, he brings directly from his madrassa. If not his own madrassa, he would be aware of a madrassa in his neighborhood which uses the same rhetoric to talk about Indians. I don’t know if you were reading his rhetoric against Hindu faith, but it is normal!

    I doesn’t surprise. It doesn’t shock me! His talk is common in Pakistan!

    I’ve seen some videos of mosque/madrassas in UK too which use the same bile!

  9. Lady Guinevere United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Rex Minor! Now I do believe you are living under a closed tent and with your head in the sand. You state that hatred is not taught in the Madrassas? Where do you think all of this misguidance with the youth of Islam comes from today? The Imans in the Madrassas! Unfortunately, and i hate to say it about you because you want to be a peacemaker, you have no “balls” when it comes to certain subjects. While I thank you for your chivalry about women I expected more from you. In fact, I expected more from all of you here on PTH regards Raj too! You have all been putting up with him because HE IS the ghost of Zia and you are all still afraid of Zia ul Haq as if he is still alive! ZIA IS DEAD, but as long as you all let him rule from the grave thru Raj too, then your silence is his go ahead to continue to ridicule you all. He is CONTROLLING you ALL! Wake up! He is Dead! He is a creature of invention; he is not real! He has admitted it back in January 2011. Go back and read his posts when he first invented himself when he came onto PTH when he started haunting it. He came onto PTH to fight against me and none of you have the BALLS to get rid of him! Where are my defenders? Who is going to help me rid this place of this Dead Devil named Zia! Let him know that he is dead! You no longer have to fear A DEAD MAN! He cannot hurt you!

    Who will be the first to speak out against Zia/Raj too?? Which of you is not afraid of a dean man?

    I await you, Lady Guinevere

  10. Lady Guinevere United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Raj too, I now have in my hand 1400 abuses from you. Just your latest!

    Lady Guinevere

    When are you all going to come to my aide from this man?

  11. Bade Miyan United States Mozilla Firefox Mac OS says:

    Lady,
    Don’t mind his words. He is still playing the bad-boy thing hoping to impress you.

  12. Raj TOO Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Lady Guinevere,

    When are you all going to come to my aide from this man?

    For some small service, I am sure AKB would willing to help! ;-)

    Don’t you think you are humiliating the women of the world, by asking for help like a “damsel in distress”! You are telling the women, that women can’t win arguments and debates on the basis of their brain-power alone! They need to do a “damsel in distress” number!

    You could have easily got the moderators to ban me from PTH, were it not for your complete ignorance of Subcontinental mentality and history! You are trying to put a Zia scarecrow on my seat, and it doesn’t fit! Even the moderators must be thinking whether “Lady Guinevere” user handle has been taken over by some low I.Q. bimbo!

    Man, the State Dept. has got a really sloppy recruitment dept.!

    Raj too, I now have in my hand 1400 abuses from you. Just your latest!

    1402!

  13. Raj TOO Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Bade Miyan wrote:

    Lady,
    Don’t mind his words. He is still playing the bad-boy thing hoping to impress you.

    Why do you think I share your assessment that she deserves to be impressed? Why are you projecting your likes at me?

    Either she is a State Dept. media operative, in which she is doing lousy work, or she is a Gal who is desperate enuf to wanna flirt with Pakis! In both cases, substandard stuff! So why would I want to impress her!

    Lady Guinevere,
    don’t take that abuse personally! My response was addressed to Bade Miyan!

  14. no-communal United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Lady Guinevere,

    Your anger is fully justified. You had shown a lot of patience until you finally burst out and called for moderation. You are a wonderfully courageous person taking interest in other peoples’ lives (a very rare trait) and having the necessary courage to confront the rude and obnoxious.

    .

    There are some in the world who think that, showing naked aggression, on the pretext of an omission here or a misunderstanding there, shows the real “maleness” and Raj falls in that category. He is seething in “righteous anger” with just about anyone, be it Muslims, the west, liberals, including with everyone’s favorite pet (if they happen to have an English name), but, paradoxically, not with Rex Minor his fellow supremacist, with whom he is lovey dovey in real life. It’s best to avoid him from a distance, unless you are willing to spend far too much time and energy in endless arguments (which is the reason noone is coming forward to do the job, not out of fear or anything, but it’s really useless and pointless). I applaud your courage for taking him on, but a lot of people will just cower down out of boredom and the sheer futility of all.

    .

    Indo-Pak arguments are serious arguments and it’s not easy to get a feel unless you are directly in the middle of it. Even Richard Holbrooke, if you recall, used to avoid mentioning or even discussing Kashmir. Despite all that, you have shown a great deal of courage, knowledge, and enthusiasm, and indeed have been one of the most awaited commentators.

    .

    To conclude, let me just reemphasize that Indo-Pak forums are always contentious and this has finally become one such. There will always be some in these who will lack any sense of basic human decency, even for a guest or a lady. Even a person as knowledgeable and erudite as HAyyer Sb. does not participate any more, I guess, for these same reasons. So, I request you to ignore the indecent ones, forget this incident, and go on with what you do best, that is, commenting on the myriad other posts.

  15. Sachbol United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    This why i say complete separation and isolation between Kuffar and Islam is the key to many security problems faced by civilized world.
    On the Indian sub continent , it must start with transfer of Population.

  16. Raj TOO Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Lady Guinevere wrote:

    You have been abusing me since I came on the scene. Because I THREATEN YOU and your power!

    Lady, you don’t threaten my power, because I got none!

    Now I can hear all those loose screws falling in the USA! :roll:

  17. Lady Guinevere United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Yes, I do miss Hayyer! Where has he gone? Probably got tired of Raj too. And, what about our Feroz? He has been put off by him too! Do the editors at PTH want to have all of the worthwhile contributors driven away by one little Indian.
    You do not have to TELL ME that Rex is cozy with Raj too. Unfortunately for Rex, he cannot and will not get away from him. he seems to be under some kind of spell from Raj too no matter how much he abuses him! Until he does “break away” from Raj too, he is doomed to continue to make the same old mistakes and lose everything that he loves and has hoped for! Seems like he too has problems with a “father like figure”! Raj too is certainly not one to fixate onto, Rex! Get as far away from him as you can! He will drag you down into his Abyss which is the burning hell he was sent to! His is like a hand reaching out from the grave, in his case, Hell, grabbing at you!

    Guinevere

  18. Raj TOO Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Yes everybody please listen Madam Trelawney!

    Stay away from me, for I am the God of Hellfire and I bring you Fire! :lol: :lol:

    I’ll ruin everybody’s life like I ruined Madam Trelawney’s life here!

  19. RHR United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    I think as an editor and a moderator, i must take part of the blame. Normally I do not delete. We have some extraordinary indians at this forum like no communal, rex, hayyer, bade miyan chote miyan and the list goes on and on.Even Raj if he does not get too biased and absusive does at times make very incisive comments. I wish he could word his opinion decently because some of it makes good argument.
    The sad thing is that most of the time the trolls have driven good indians away.
    PTH thrives on these exrraordinary indians. I hope that they all stay and trolls mend their ways. I mean what is the achievement in hurling absuses behind the comfort and protection of internet??

  20. rex minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Lady G
    I definitely read your mail and respect your opinion.

    We observe a day every year and remember our dead, we also believe that let the deads have peace. There have been many lunatics in this world before and there shall be many more lunatics in the future and the world has to confront them or tolerate them.

    I am not the moderator nor am I a friend of the mob culture. This is not the lawless America nor Florida where a punk and disgraced bishop burns in public the Quraan scriptures, under the protection of freedom of expression. This is a civilised Europe where mobbing is illegal and florida conditions of criminality do not take place.

    You would like to have people of Hayyer, PMA or Mustafa level, who does’nt? You find Raj rude and I find several others who are equaly rude if not more rude. I am simply a visiting guest and have not found out yet how the Indian and Pakistani mind tick, despite their exposure to western education system. Raj speaks German language and this enables me to understand his logic atleast, unlike Indian and english, it compels him to think logicaly, methodicaly and with arithmatic precision.

    I do not agree with his conclusions nor with yours but atleast know why he holds such opinion. Here is the example;

    I said that I do not know what is taught in Pakisan madrassas?

    Raj response is that AKB crap comes from Pakistan madrassas!

    Lady G response, then where do you think this misguidence in the youth of Islam come from today?

    There is neither a reason nor any logic in both statements. Both of you are of the opinion that madrassas are the source for the misguidence.

    I shall tell you the source of evil; the great Imperial high priest who is sitting in the USA and admits openly that his administration is operating drones killings in the border area of Pakistan and afghanistan! He also boasted openly that the USA spent one bilion dollars in Libya without any american boots on ground to make the regime change. Yes these were the words of Alcapone from Chicago! Now the Syrian youth is suffering because the Asad has dugged in and the Russians and the Chinese do not want to be cheated again by the clintonian mafia.

    Raj in my opinion thinks too loudly and responds instantly. Is this a sin to speak ones mind? I shall not support anyone who makes use of foul language in his post, but there are others as well beside raj who are sly and sneeky and suddenly come out of the sand and unload rapidly their filth. Raj is, however, sincere in his thoughts in my opinion.
    I am sorry that his stements have caused such a distress; perhaps PTH should consider you asa moderator for this iberal Blog.

    Take care and have agood ride!

    Rex Minor

  21. faisal khan Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    lanti mirzaiyo kabhi koi khair ki khabar bhi lai ker aii ho?
    hamesha do number article hi likhtay ho…toilet mirzay ki terah….lanat ho tum per….

  22. Raj TOO Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    rex minor wrote:

    I said that I do not know what is taught in Pakisan madrassas?
    Raj response is that AKB crap comes from Pakistan madrassas!

    rex minor,
    This is what I was telling you about – what is taught in madrassas. The whole video is interesting but the section of concern to me is between 3:00 and 4:13.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVTXkV6XzV0

  23. observ Germany Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    to sachbol, NC, RHR

    Transfer of population is not possible – what is possible is to get rid of this ideology from Arabia on the basis of our self-respect (indic self-respect – as you would call it). Islam was created in Makkah, not in the indian subcontinent, and that is argument for us to reject it, especially since it has nothing in it that we did not have earlier. (Islam is not physics or mathematics but only a sociopolitical muddle up in the name of a so-called god). Transfer of population will only mean that the muslim countries (57 of them together) will be able to hurt India and hindus even more.

    The muslim is first a victim of islam (from his very innocent childhood) and then an instrument and agent and quisling. The criticism is and has to be against this ideology from 7th century Makkah.

    The attempt to separate “decent” indians form “trolling” indians gives the wrong signal. No one is prevented from writing, reading or ignoring on the PTH. Hayyer, vajra et al stopped writing because they realized that they cannot defend what islam really is and what muslims mostly say or do. No decent contributor gives up because some so-called trolls rushed in. In fact calling some contributors as trolls was done purposefully in order hide the fact that their arguments could not be defeated. Hardly had some “decent” indian invested his might to defend the muslim “brothers” and their islam, they (=the muslims) did something which embarrassed these “decent” indians. So the “decent” indians had to give up, so as not to blamage themselves any further.

    If islam had not had this “glorious” tradition (of the many “glories” with which islam has covered itself from head to toe) of killing critics then we would not have needed the internet to discuss all this. The worst of islam is yet to come.

  24. rex minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Raj

    The video is part of the sensational but cheap program of Channel 4 and outlines the situation in some British schools or British Govt. and educational authorities approved Madrassas, if you will. The claims and counter claims simply exposes the dilemma of the successive British conservative Govts. which encouraged multicultural environment and today regret it. This is not the example of Islam nor of the religious madrassa in a muslim country which Pakistani newspapers talk about it. This is typical the culture of hate which has deveoped between muslims and hindus in India and was poured out in the UK. The Brits should bring this under the control and incorporate religious teachings within the mainstream only as it is planned in Germany.

    In today’s climate the mix of politics with religious teachings as it is followed from the USA to Israel to Pakistan, is extremely dangerous and is going to drag the communities to ancient times.There are very noble personalities who are keen to do that and do not realize about the consequences of such a regressive enterprise. Remember the message in one of the video of a muslim preacher to the children , those who mock at other religions must also expect that their own religion will be mocked at!! The rest is a propaganda pure and must be curbed in any modern or ancient society. Muslim students as well as christian and other religion students must be taught about their own religions respectively and not about other’s religions.

    Rex minor

  25. Raj TOO Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    rex minor wrote:

    outlines the situation in some British schools or British Govt. and educational authorities approved Madrassas, if you will.

    a) In Britain there is no system of registration of madrassas! They just pop up as required and desired.

    b) I don’t deny that the British channel may have a political motive for this documentary. That however does not make the example a lie.

    This is not the example of Islam nor of the religious madrassa in a muslim country which Pakistani newspapers talk about it. This is typical the culture of hate which has deveoped between muslims and hindus in India and was poured out in the UK.

    So what is your judgment? That Pakistanis have nothing to do with anti-Hindu hate, but that it is confined to Indian Muslims only? And you make that judgment based on what? Do you think that Pakistani madrassas are free from anti-Hindu rhetoric? Do you think that the bile poured by AKB at Hindus is some unique aberration of an otherwise “friendly approach to Hindus”? Have you watched the demonstrations by religious parties against India and the anti-Hindu rhetoric they use there?

    rex minor,
    I am sure that in Turkish Islamic seminaries they would not be using the examples of Hindus, etc. simply because Hindus have no relevance for the Anatolian people! But from that example you cannot deduce that Islam is taught similarly in Pakistani Islamic seminaries!

    My claim was simply that the anti-Hindu rhetoric of AKB is widespread in madrassas across Pakistan, and it is reflected in the Pakistani society, both in Pakistan and abroad! Sure this has historical reasons, but that is what the situation is!

  26. observ Germany Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    to rex

    Criticism of religions is a must.

    Fascism results when criticism is avoided or prevented or forbidden or threatened or censored or self-censored.

    You have some idealized version of islam in your head – but that did not ever exist and never will exist.

    Muslims don’t want islam’s fascism to be exposed, so they make every effort to prevent or block off any criticism of islam. You are one such muslim who tries to prevent citicism of islam and you are thus responsible for causing fascism to become stronger among muslims.

    A person who is afraid of criticism, or of being criticised, or his ideology/religion being criticised is protecting or encouraging fascism. Do you want to be guilty of that?

    You pretend ignorance when it comes to admitting islam’s fascist aspects. You practise this typical muslim trick of denying the muslimness of those muslims who commit any crime (terrorism etc.).

  27. rex minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Raj

    I do not make any judgement of the sort you indicated, nor shall I defend any one from committing crimes against humanity. You are aware that corporal punishment is prohibited in Germany, whereas, it is allowed in British schools. There are social problems in all communities and they must be addressd and resolved by the community leaders. What I am saying is that these are the social problems which stem from ignorance, illetracy and exploitation of the religion.

    I am sure that in Pakistan this must be the case as well. We know the illegal actions of the Govt. which were undertaken by the Gvt. or its institutions against muslim and non muslim citizens and the consequence. What I do not know for sure is as to what sort of Madrassas or the names of people who are practicing or propagating hate against non muslim minorities. It is no good for the Pakistani liberals to simply scoff at the clergy or the Madrassas for spread of intolerance and hate in the communities.

    Rex Minor

  28. rex minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Observ

    You are going in circles again. You have not the idea what Fascism is! Fascism is revered even today by the Fascist party members. It is a right wing totalitarian POLITICAL system which originated in Italy during 1922-1943 and was founded by a great Italian leader by the name of Mussolini, and was copied and purified by his comrade in arms Hitler. Now tell us when Islam was born? Mussolin daughter would not like her party being associated wih Islam!

    Rex Minor

  29. Sachbol United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Raj TOO
    Why does the Video concern you? They are teaching true Quran and Islam aka Pakistan . When their Godhood talks in high intellectual , divine terms of belivers and non belivers , Kuffar, Victory, Booty, etc , its natural for these ideological children to remain in that bondage which BTW get recemented with IQ inceasing inbreeding practice . IMHO, if a society find joy in insulting the Divine Supreme by making Him a low Tribal chief assigining all kind of inane observations and qualities to IT , let it be. All you can have is pity and wait patiently for mental growth in many births over so they become aware of their own thinking faculty given by nature or Godhood assinged to the task of creation as authorized by Supreme Lord. One day the Dawn of consciousnes will make them aware of the darkness caused by the veil of ignornce. Then they themselves will tear it down.Let nature takes it own evolutionary course.

  30. Raj TOO Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Sachbol ji,
    call it “of interest to make a point” rather than “concern”!

  31. PARIS BIENNIAL LAUREATE AND SENIOR ADVOCATE SUPREME COURT SYYED MOHUMMED JAWAID IQBAL JAFREE OF SLARPORE, BRIGHTON, PACIFIC PALISADES AND SUMMASATTA Pakistan Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Raj #2 (in many ways and lack of means!!) should not abuse or for SHAM intentions criticize the Right Honorable Lady Guinevere. I hope and pray that Raj Too can achieve something worthwhile of his own during his own lifetime in lieu (or in stead) of eating daal-roti ibn the United Klans of Amerika.

    (I guess this vote for Guinevere will open up and revive the Pandori of the stagnant debate about my Harvard degrees again, so be it). Since I last touched the topic, my semi Magnum Opus: SAD MONA LISA SWEATING IT OUGHT IN THE SHALIMAR GarDENS DURING A RECENT PAKISTAN YATRA (wearing a Badge of Honor that proclaims understatedly : “I am a fan of Iqbal Geoffrey and So Was Leionasrdo da Vinci”) is being shown at the KOEL GALLERY in Clipton.. it is reproduced in e-magazine ArtNOW. Seconmdly I caught a Rs 500000 MILLION LNG Price Scam and my other fan Aitzaz Ahson Ji for 3 months cannlot find a way to file an answer and the matter comes up at Lahore High Court on 14th Feb, inshawLAW. This is to let the O-Level Module Town Bitch that I am alive and well, kickking. Throw all the ggs and tomatoes. I have low metabolism and will make Spicy Omlette and consunme it. This Self Port-A-Trait is being hailed by my fans in England as the greatest pAInthing (!) iof the Centrury. I havde more on the anvil and under my sleeves … armageddon of rap on the knucle of/for In Justice; BE CAUSE justice is expeditiously melting into Just Ice in Pakistan. The semiimported cultural parasites of Pakistan who write salmalouki Pinglish should stafrt appreciating that Pakistann is the only country in All Asia which produced two Paris Biennial Laureates. Sadequain (Naqvi) and Geoffrey (also a Naqvi). And I am the only Parias Biennial Laureate left alivcde in Asia. Check it ought. Checkmate. THAT HURTS BABES OF MAKE-BELIEVE ART/ ARITHtiyas!!
    My favourite music is not Geeta Dutt anymore. I am beginning to dig the surroubnd-soubnd of barking dogs running after a rolling royal. My nemeses cabn such a boiled egg in Lawrence Garden!! cheers, jeers.

  32. PARIS BIENNIAL LAUREATE AND SENIOR ADVOCATE SUPREME COURT SYYED MOHUMMED JAWAID IQBAL JAFREE OF SLARPORE, BRIGHTON, PACIFIC PALISADES AND SUMMASATTA Pakistan Internet Explorer Windows says:

    please read.. last line/ my nemeses can suck a boiled egg together in the Lawrence Gardens…

  33. Raj TOO Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    IQBAL JAFREE wrote:

    Raj #2 (in many ways and lack of means!!) should not abuse or for SHAM intentions criticize the Right Honorable Lady Guinevere. I hope and pray that Raj Too can achieve something worthwhile of his own during his own lifetime in lieu (or in stead) of eating daal-roti ibn the United Klans of Amerika.

    Your prayers have already been met!

    The Lady gets what she asks for! Besides one never knows! May be there is a man behind that user handle!

  34. PARIS BIENNIAL LAUREATE AND SENIOR ADVOCATE SUPREME COURT SYYED MOHUMMED JAWAID IQBAL JAFREE OF SLARPORE, BRIGHTON, PACIFIC PALISADES AND SUMMASATTA Pakistan Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Raj TOO:

    t u v m.
    I wish I could send you a signed reproduction of my latest aertwork: (A SAD) MONA LISA SWEATING IT OUGHT IN THE SHALIMar gardens DURING A RECENT PAKISTAN YATRA (PILL :: GRIMAGE)… it is a port-A-Trait being shown at the Koel Gallery in Clifton 4 Karachi …
    but i dont knoew how to transfer it from gmail documents to PTH,
    see if u can glimpose and dispatch it on/from picasa /KOEL GALLERY.
    IQBAL GEOFFREY .. the only paris biennial laureate left alive in Continental Asia….

    If one believes that the Lady Guinevere has a man behind her .. then you should give her intelligence that much credit . If you want tro state that its a poeudonym being used by her (and targeted by you), then it does nlot matter.

    CALIPH ALI SAID WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS NOT WHO SAYS IT BUT rather WHAT IS being stated…

  35. Omar Haleem Pakistan Safari Mac OS says:

    I am totally going to say that this isn’t Ameer Humza Khanji of The Junagadh’s Naqbzada Alamgir Khanji’s Family Speaking…This is a travesty of the true you Mr Hamza Usman, and probably you were guided by the able if misguided hands of your mother who isn’t fathered by the scion of A.B.A. Haleem’s son…so please keep this drivel for those who think this is your heritage ever, this is what the grandson of Abu Bakr Omar Haleem has to say to those lying pieces of shit who made you write about my grandfather on their behest, because they don’t have what it takes to face me about the wrongs that his progeny had to face…In my own life i have to say seeing your reference on wikipedia makes me sick of the level to which people will go to cover up their crimes..and they use you for this?. what happened to Nawabzada of Junagadh? He is your father! and you should have stood by him proud of the sacrifices that they made…tell your mother to please not show her face to me when i come to bury my father. And before you write such a blatant lie do remember that I am still alive and well despite all the connected gangstalking of those who would like me to die out without the truth coming out..Tell Leelu her father isn’t senile, the way she wanted my father to be..and that if she ever comes on my head again, she will face the consequences of doing so on the day my father goes to his grave…you are all lying pieces of shits!..I condone this article as totally fabricated to suit your image within the Mohagir commnity..your true father would be ashamed of you as is everyone else who knows the truth about ho you really are..you are someone who i always respected..but by god i wish the day you grandmother that piece of shit who used her shoes on my head soo many times that i have more that 22 head wounds alone had woken me up to wash your sorry ass and i by design caught your little pecker in your ghubba, i wish i had chopped it off!

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