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Taliban, Society and The State
Raza Habib Raja
A lot has been written about the phenomenon of Taliban and today a broad range of narratives try to offer various explanations about the reasons of their creation, the nature of their links with the state, their relationship with the Pashtun nationalism as well as their ability to ideologically overwhelm Pakistan.
This article will try to counter some of the commonly held perceptions about Taliban by some of the thinkers/journalists (including those who are against Taliban). It will then try to assess the possibility of a Taliban takeover of Pakistani society and state
A misperception about Taliban and quite prevalent amongst the liberal press is that state is actively supporting ALL the Taliban factions. In my opinion, the dominant “liberal” narrative that Pakistani state is actively supporting Taliban even now, is flawed because it fails to explain the fact that Pakistani army has itself fought Taliban. Even recently there have been reports of killings of army personnel by Taliban. Moreover, although the state, including the government, publicly has been opposing the drone attacks yet the fact is that prior to Osama bin Laden’s assassination, drone attacks were conducted from Shamsi Airbase in Baluchistan. These drones were and still targeting the Taliban militants. Obviously all of this had complete support of the Pakistani armed forces as well as the government.
What is probably true is that state is supporting some of the factions for its realpolitik concerns while continuing to aggressively engage others. By and large there is perhaps little to no resemblance between the monolithic version of Taliban of the 1990s and today’s fragmented and at times even mutually hostile Taliban groups.
Over the years, the state-sponsored monster has largely turned against it. Today this monster may bear little resemblance to the original version meant largely as an instrument to create the so-called strategic depth. Yes, Pakistani state may be supporting some of the groups—often the Haqqani Network is mentioned in this regard—but it cannot be fighting and supporting every group at the same time.
Let us not forget that more than 35,000 people have died during the past ten years. To simply assume that state itself is killing its own citizens and also its army personnel is stretching it too much.
This is an important fact to realize in our discourse because otherwise we are likely to come up with faulty conclusions and also end up having excessive blame on the state alone. Yes state has been responsible but with the passage of time, these actors have become more anti-state rather than its instruments.
This conclusion by no stretch of imagination diminishes the threat posed by Taliban and in fact further augments it, at least in the strict military sense. If state has less “control” over religious extremists then the extreme possibility of (i.e. takeover of the state), though remote, cannot be ruled out.
How realistic is the threat of Taliban to either ideologically takeover Pakistani society or physical takeover through military means by overthrowing the state?
I have often heard how religious Pakistan is rapidly becoming and this increasing religiosity is paving the way for an ideological takeover of the society by the Taliban. I fully agree that reigious fanaticism is on the rise and country’s ideological fabric is more religious. However, without underestimating the treat of Taliban, I really do not think that it is possible for Taliban to score any sort of ideological victory.
There are two major factors which thwart such a possibility. First, Pakistan has no singular version of Islam. Yes Pakistan is more religious compared to the past but that religiousity is not confined wthin one sect. There are many strains of religious beliefs and some of these are vehemently contradictory to Wahabi as well as Deobandi beliefs. Pakistan has substantial number of Brailvis, Shias and other sects. The lack of monolithic version of Islam makes it extremely difficult for an extreme outfit like Taliban to score an ideological victory of any sorts. They are inspired from Wahabi and Deobandi schools of thought and both of these are loathed by many other sects. The sectarian diversity, while being a reason for sectarian violence, has also acted as a countering force to the spread of scripture-based orthodox versions of Islam.
Second, Pakistan remains a society which is still largely rural and with very strong kinship and tribal characteristics. This is a very important element which makes any “revolution” whether of socialist or religious type extremely difficult. The rural cum tribal society which thrives on kinship has made Pakistan a country less vulnerable to Islamic radicalism. This fact has been explained at length by Anatol Lieven in his brilliant book titled “Pakistan: A Hard Country”. Lieven argues that the rural structure of the Pakistani society has put severe limits on radicalism.
I think rather than an ideological takeover a more realistic possibility is of Taliban becoming militarily so powerful that they take over some parts of the country or even the entire country through overthrowing the state. The former has already happened as there are areas where Taliban are in complete control and Pakistan does not enjoy sovereignty as the state has no writ and has ceded the sole authority over physical violence. However, it is still difficult for Taliban to take control of the entire country like that.
Another possibility of Taliban takeover is to gain significant influence on some of country’s key components such as armed forces. If an important section of the army can be “converted” to Taliban cause then through a coup the entire leadership can be deposed. In fact in the past there have been attempts by the Islamic extremists to do that.
Journalist Saleem Shezad has written about the possible infiltration of armed forces by Taliban and Al-Qaida, an act which eventually cost him his life. If this infiltration continues then Taliban do not have to conquer Pakistan through conventional means as they can do so through “softer” means such as a coup. Even if a coup does not take place, infiltration of key state institutions allows them to indulge in extremists activities freely and more effectively.
Apart from armed forces, we have to be watchful for sympathetic elements within civil services, judiciary and media. Eventually it is the professional classes more vulnerable to such influences.
Filed under: Uncategorized · Tags: concerns, Society, state, Taliban
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Arleast he likes Buddhism.
Tajender don’t tell this secret to Taliban – they don’t really like buddha…
It’s funny how tajenders, AKBs and rexies – in their eagerness to defend Islam, end up committing shirk and blasphemy, withou realizing everything written here is a record that could go against them in a sharia court.
Sharia courts are quick.
RHR should treat MtGpost like the lady on express tribune blog, ” I rashed it” article explains it.
Rex Minor
RExi
Its only natural that your intelligence will take over at times but you have to be focused – make sure no word you write goes against Allah and Muhammed. You might be just and rational but not better than Allah. Never judge Allah and his ways.
Getting your skin burned again and again is not a nice feeling. Allah can be very cruel when he sees disrespect and blasphemy and arrogance.
Muslims Massacre and Inhumane Burma Government and Color blind media!!??
28000 Muslim Children, Woman and Man Killed in Burma.
Where in the hell are you international community?!!
Milestogo says:
July 17, 2012 at 3:04 am
Arleast he likes Buddhism.
Tajender don’t tell this secret to Taliban – they don’t really like buddha
budhdhism plus allah is islam.
MTG,
RHR should take note of the modern device mostly used for Bloggers on Pakistan blogs! The moderator lady explains it on Express Tribune , how she trashes it and give examples, yours even surpass them, illegal and should normaly ne referred to the Pakistan authorities. Perhaps they are legal in India democracy.
You are a burn out individual with a thick skin, and this is apparent in your spits; the taliban could skin you so that you get a new skin. This is their expertise since they live on selling sheeps skins.
Rex Minor
Tajender,
Yoga according to experts in Germany has been hyped for business interests and stems from simple breathing excercise. Tai Tchi is receiving more acceptance. Besides Tibetan medical practices are of interest as well; it wold seem that the Tibetan do not tackle the desease but rather the patient to find out why he got the desease in the first place. A german doctor who qualified in this branch spent five years in studying this art which included a period to learn the Tibetan language as well. And this after having qualified as a medical specialist after seven year study.
Rex Minor
Tajender,
The punishment for apostasy in Islam is NOT death. Though shall not kill is Gods comandment. If al maudidi has got his knickers twisted and mixes up treason against State with apostasy then this is his judgement and he must account for it. No one has the authority to speak for God almighty.
You have your faith and I shall keep mine; these were the words of Prophet of God Mohammad( may peace be upon him) who was ordained to eliminate the anomolies which were being practiced at the time by jews and christians.
Rex Minor
Tajender
I like that thought. Islam is buddhism. So than Buddhists are not kuffar? That’s the tolerance we need. A religion that rejects can not be a true religion.
Allah would be happy too.
Rexie
Don’t get angry at me for asking you to be careful in allah’s matters. You should thank me. I like your thought that Allah sent muhammed to fix Jewish and Christian corruption. One can find out those corruptions by finding out the differences.
Btw are you sure about punishment of apostasy because a prominent Islamic scholar from Pakistan said that it was death. I am not talking about zakir naik – he is not a scholar. He said that ahmedis should have been punished to death.
You might be right in your interpretation and judgement, and may be the scholars are right in theirs.
That’s where you need to be careful and may be take advise from a scholar you trust.I am just suggesting…
Yoga according to experts in Germany has been hyped for business
very right.my friends wife wasted 4 years.i told her many times.now she stopped.hinduism is standing on fraud.
Tanjender
all the great scholars of India except Nagarjuna were Brahmans.
Nalanda University was started by a Hindu King called Sakraditya and even then after that it was provided for and funded by Hindus throughout. the university also mainly had Hindu teachers who taught Mathematics, philosophy, astronomy etc. Buddhism was also taught there. Aryabhatta, the greatest of the Hindu Mathematicians was a professor of Nalanda.
yoga has been provedd on a scientific basis and no it does not cause arthritis. if running does not cause arthritis, then it is very unlikely that a series of stretches will. besides arthritis is hereditary.
and yes, the punishment in Islam for apostasy is death. Maudoodi was right. i suggest that Muslims who do not know this to read the Sharia which clearly states that they should be given three days to repent and if they do not do so in the given time, then they should be beheaded.
the Koran says that “If they repent and uphold the practice of prayer and almsgiving, then they are your brothers in religion. If after this, however, they break their covenant, then war should be waged against the leaders of kufr (infidelity). Here “covenant breaking” in no way can be construed to mean “breaking of political covenants“.
this is what verse 9:11-12 says.
“But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief – Lo! they have no binding oaths in order that they may desist.”
verses 9:11-12 and 4:89 – the last verses revealed in the Quran concerning apostasy – clearly call for killing the apostates of Islam.
no point in telling you any of this anyway. you admire Sina but fail to see what made him great and why the Islamic Civilization reached its zenith. you might be beyond hope but others are not.
Pro-islamic upbringing leads to a fascist and compulsively dishonest mentality, glorification of violence against non-muslims and hatred against non-islam. This is so since 1400 years. We don’t expect that to change.
Funny that some muslims are trying to tell us that islam is good and great. Blind leading the blind.
Buddhism plus allah leads to more confusions, deceits and self-deceits. Mixing honey with poison results in a more dangerous poison. That is what islam really is.
As I have no influence on the crap which non believers are putting out I have no control over the opinion of other muslim scholars is?
This is not a subject of discussion betweena muslim and a non muslim.
We are in the 21st century and are more knwledgable and developed to be able to understand what the scriptures mean and what the Shari is. USE your brain was the answer the Prophet of God(pbuh) gave to one of his desciples who was as curious as we are today and wanted ready made answers. Let me also remind the readers that unlike christinity it was a usual practice for muslim scholars Priests lead the militry charge by being in front of the troops. It would seem that this practice was not deployed by the Pakistan military? Watch the Pashtun commanders who lead their groups and charge- they are all scholars. Todays Pakistan military assault against its own citizens is not lead by the Priests but by the long range artillery. And I say shame on those who fight cowardly against Pashtuns, be it drones or long range artillery piece.
Rex Minor
Human civilisation has not reached its Zenith and what the followers of Islam have given to the mankind is nothing in compared to what is going to come. The Arab renaissance is in the offing and Pax Isam must follow to replace the world chaos and prevent the rise of greed and awessness and to restore human compassion and soidarity with the weakest.
Rex Minor
Fingolfin,
“all the great scholars of India except Nagarjuna were Brahmans.”
.
That statement is not accurate at all. Even then, it’s a matter of shame, nonetheless.
“Watch the Pashtun commanders who lead their groups and charge- they are all scholars. ”
.
Haha..Rexie is now high on some good stuff!
Fingolfin,
“all the great scholars of India except Nagarjuna were Brahmans
like jews brhmns used their education to enslave and starve others.there was complete darkness under brhmncl lamp of knowledge.even swarasti,the goddess of knowledge is illetrate.rama burnt alive shudra shambhook when he was found reciting hindu holy scripture.
Nalanda University was started by a Hindu King called Sakraditya and even then after that it was provided for and funded by Hindus throughout. the university also mainly had Hindu teachers who taught Mathematics, philosophy, astronomy etc. Buddhism was also taught there. Aryabhatta, the greatest of the Hindu Mathematicians was a professor of Nalanda, Fingolfin
nalanda was a Buddhist center of learning from the fifth or sixth century CE to 1197 CE.[2][3] It has been called “one of the first great universities in recorded history”.[3] Nalanda flourished between the reign of the Śakrāditya,a budhdhist.he was not hindu.
budhhda period was a golden period like hindu period was a dark and curse for india.first challenge to brhmnsm came from buhdha.budhism stands for egalitarianism while brhmnsm says that MAN IS BORN UNEQUAL.
after hiding among budhdhists for 1000 years,they destroyed and defeated budhdhist empire and reEstablished apartheism in india.then muslims came with message of equality and justice.brhmns became power sharer of empire.LIKE LIZARDS THEY CHANGE THEIR SKIN VERY FAST.before they almost exterminated buhddhists from indian plane mainland.somehow nalanda couldnot be destroyed.it is they who conviced bakhtiar khilji to destroy this great centre of learning.
brhmns who were part of empire did not registered any protest when operation was going on.there are many temples around nalanda which were not touched.
prayag kashi ayodhya and mathura are all budhhdist places occupied by brhmns after their defeat and their places of worship converted into shivalas(shiv temple.few muslim invaders looted temples with the help of competing brhmns.they had good cut in this.
it is the same as kashmir policy.except apple nothing grows there but indians has to bear the expenses of presence of 700000 active army.
same policy APNI JEB SE KYA JATA HAI.THEY MAKE GOOD MONEY THROUGH HEFTY COMMISSION in supply and purchase of arms.POORS DIE AND PAY.
Fingolfin ASK BLOOD THIRSTY BRHMNS OF NAGPUR,WHY BRHMNS OF THOSE DAYS WERE SILENT WHEN NALANDA WAS being DEMOLISHED.ALSO ASK WHY THEY ARE CRYIBG NOW. if u dont know i will tell u.because of rich budhhdists all over the world nalanda is going to be very vibrant place soon.by organising communal riots in this are they want to establish their ownership there.this gam backfired in ayodhya.
Tajender,
you are the eightened one, a person who not only has the knowledge but the talent and the intellect to interpret it, and the judgement to separate info from the propaganda. Why the hell some of the Indian bloggers do not refrain from personal attacks nor are prepared to put forward their version if it is more reliable. I get the impression that they have never visited a University and simply rely on the info available in the world of web. Denial and reaction one sees and sometimes the usual repetitions from Ahem. Some do not take No for an answer either.
Rex Minor
CM
What I said is nothing new. The supreme commander of the so called .Talibans Pushtuns is Mullar Omar, who speaks fluent Arab is a well recognised and accepted as a theologist. No one can command the Pushtuns unless they are the recognised religion experts and most of them are teachers in theology schools. Talibans were the students of theology and their teachers were theologist. I know that you are the kind who does not accept what is not your knowledge, you have demonstrated before. Even for hindus knowledge and education should be a virtue. Buy yourself an I Pad and whenever you read me, just check instantly from the good friend GOOGLE and he will be of aid, before you squak. It is getting rather boring. Many of your compatriots are not aware that most Indian so called Sufis had a spree of killing non muslims before they turned to God a nd repented bitterly and achieved the status of a Sufi for their personal salvation.
Rex Minor
Mullah Omar wants to bring the wrong interpretation of sharia in Afghanistan – he can not be a true Muslim. He is a dis-believer and should be treated as such. His brand of Islam is intolerant.
Moreover true muslims never go in hiding.
I get the impression that they have never visited a University and simply rely on the info available in
rex hindus are like brainless moths who fly around any light they see
and then die.usually brhmns employ idiots to fight for their cause..
Rexie Sir,
I have no doubt that Mullah Omar went to the same renowned university that you have learned your lessons from. I wonder why you don’t send your kids to the same schools. I know why: Because you are a coward son of a bitch, a swine who lives on the doles of his adopted country and cheers its sworn enemies.
Tajender
Sakraditya was one of the last ruling descendants of the Guptas who were on of the greatest dynasties of India. their rule is called the golden age for literature, philosophy and science. that was the time when India was the the most powerful country in the world and that was the time when they defeated the Huns who had ravaged the rest the word including China.
what you do not seem to understand is that Hindu Kings were the ones who always patronized Buddhism because they were the ones who were in power during the inchoate stages of Buddhism. so if they had not leant their patronage, then Buddhism would not have flourished.
Ashoka was of course a Hindu, and their is no record of him having ever converted to Buddhism( according to John Keay).
the Guptas were famous patrons of Buddhism and so was Harsha the great and subsequent Hindu Kings.
this is how the foundations for the Nalanda University were laid.
King Kumara Gupta (AC 415-455) built the first monastery at Nalanda. It was a seminary for training Buddhist monks. It�s site was not too for nor too close to the city. Hence it was selected as an ideal centre for the pursuit of Buddhist studies by monks. Nalanda University was an expansion and extension of this seminary. King Buddha Gupta (AC 455-467) Jatagatha Gupta (AC 467-500) Baladitya (500-525) and Vijra (525) made additions and expansions to the buildings. King Baladitya made a shrine-room a house of worship which was 300 feet high. His son Vijra built the fifth monastery. King Harsha Siladitya built the sixth monastery and surrounded the university buildings with 9� high wall. In the 10th century when Hieun Tsang entered the university, there were 10,000 resident students. They came from all parts of India and foreign lands. It was India�s leading University. It�s chancellorship was reserved for India�s foremost Buddhist scholar when Hieun-Tsang visited Nalanda Silabhadra Maha Thera held the post. At that time there were 10,000 students, 1510 teachers, and about 1,500 workers at Nalanda. Students from foreign lands such as Tibet, China, Japan, Korea, Sumatra, Java and Sri Lanka were found there. Admission to Nalanda was by oral examination. This was done by a professor at the entrance hall. He was called Dvara Pandita. Proficiency in Sanskrit was necessary, as it was the medium of instruction. All Chinese monks going to India for higher studies in Buddhism had to go to Java and brush up their Sanskrit. Hieum Tsang reports that of the foreign students only 20% managed to pass the stiff examinations. Of the Indian students only 30% managed to pass and gain admission. Therefore the standard required were high. Casts, creed and nationality were no barriers in keeping with the Buddhist spirit. There were no external students at the university. Nalanda was maintained by the revenue from seven villages which were granted by the king. The study of Mahayana was compulsory for Buddhists. One could also study the doctrines of 18 other Buddhist sects. One could also study secular subjects like science, medicine, astrology, fine-arts, literature etc. THE SIX SYSTEMS OF HINDU PHILOSOPHY WERE ALSO TAUGHT. One could study Hinayana forms of Buddhism. This included the Theravada commerce, administration and astronomy were also taught. The observatory of the university was situated in a very tall building. Lectures, debates and discussions were part of the educational curriculum. Hieun Tsang states that 100 lectures were delivered there every day. The discipline was exemplary.
now do you understand that the University was not only a university for Buddhism but a place were a lot else was taught including Hindu Philosophy and this is something that i have been telling you throughout. in the History of Nalanda, Hindu Kings have been the major patrons. starting as i have mentioned, with the Guptas.
as far as your cock and bull story of Brahmans colluding to destroy Nalanda is concerned, i have already told you that great professors of Nalanda were Brahmans like Aryabhatta. Hindus and Buddhists ran Nalanda together so it is stupid to think that they would collude in destroying their own great university. why don’t you show me where you got this nonsense from? NO scholar accepts that Hindus had anything to do with it. this is just and insane man, imprisoned by his prejudice, trying to defend the actions of a Muslims barbarian. to even think that a man like Bakhtiyar KHilji, who killed Hindus was greater rapaciousness, would ever listen to Brahmans who wanted to destroy Nalanda is stupidity that only a lunatic can come up with. when Khilji destroyed Nalanda, their were thousands of Brahman scholars too and they all were beheaded. of course, they invited Khilji to destroy their university and to behead them in the process. how logical
as far as Brahmans not repenting when Nalanda was destroyed, i don;t know where to begin. i mean, this is a university that was destroyed 1000 years back. are you expecting footage of 24/7 news channels that report the sorrow of Brahmans when the university was destroyed?! or do you have some secret footage of that period which shows Brahmans celebrating the fall of the university?
Nalanda’s destruction that all Hindus have repented for a thousand years now and that, along with the destruction of Somnath, is one the events that Hindus have always held against the Muslims.
anyway, i waiting for that thousand year old footage that you have of Brahmans celebrating at the destruction of Nalanda instead of dying.
Tajender
i already told you to defend Islam by defending Islam. not by incriminating Hinduism. that is flawed logic.
every religion has discrimination as a process of its evolution. it may take various names. in Islam also there are the Ashraf and the Arzal where the Ashraf are the superior ruling class and the Arzal are the lower class. plus there are many subdivisions within Islam because Islam is not a monolith. there are Wahabis, Barelvi’s, Qadianis,Sufis and they all discriminate against each other. it is part of every religion and every society, whether tacitly or openly, has this feature.
even in Hinduism, no text calls for discrimination and the fact that it exists is a flawed effect of social evolution. the same is true of the Koran and Islam.
also in my last post, when i told you that no Muslim nation is a legitimate heir of Sina because of the regression in Islam which you personify, i think you misunderstood my meaning. i said that no Islamic nation today can lay be called a progressive state and a legitimate heir of Sina and his erudition( maybe except Turkey and that is necaue they are liberal and secular).
Muslim countries that are not liberal and secular are regressive and this shows in their development and education. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi, Yemen, Qatar and the rest of the Gulf countries are classic examples.
CM
greatness is subjective. according to my present definition and what i know these scholars to have done, i stand by what i say. maybe if i further read what other Buddhist Indian scholars have achieved, i might reverse that opinion but for now it stands. and it probably is a bad thing, but i have no doubt that Brahmans( and i am not one) are the smartest people of India and that is why, through social evolution they are called Brahmans.
Brahmans are Brahmans because they are fiercely intelligent. that is the way the segregation has taken place through time.
Tajender
of the 6 great Buddhist Universities in India, all barring none, were destroyed by Muslims invaders. most extremist believers of Islam cannot tolerate pagan institutions of learning.
these Buddhist structures flourished for thousands of years under Hindu patronage. Brahmans did not collude with Hindu Kings to destroy these Universities and studied there becoming the greatest professors but as soon as barbarian Muslim hordes arrived on the scene,they colluded with Muslim invaders to destroy them?!?!
Tajender, you are full of piss and wind and you know it.
Tajender
read.
BuddhaSasana Home Page English Section
The six Buddhist universities of ancient India
D. Amarasiri Weeraratne
It is well-known that with the rise of Buddhism in India there dawned the golden age of India�s culture and civilisation. There was progress in all aspects of Indian civilisation under the impact of Buddhism. This is very much in contrast to what happened in the Roman empire in Europe with the rise of Christianity. With the coming of Christianity into power the Dark Ages dawned upon Europe. During this era whatever progress that was achieved by the Greeks and the Romans received a set-back and came to a stand-still. Schools and centres of philosophy were closed down. The famed library at Alexandria was burnt down by a Christian mob led by a prelate. Hypatia the learned philosopher and teacher was dragged into a Church and her flesh was torn off her body. As a result of these barbarities Europe was plunged into the darkness of ignorance and poverty for a thousand years. The Dark Ages of European history was really the golden age of the Christian Church, because it did the conversion of the barbarians to Christianity during this time. The great philosophers and intellectuals of Europe who left their mark on human civilisation were all pre-Christian pagans who lived prior to the rise of Christianity, e.g. Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Seneca, Pliny, etc. The Christian era was masked by an absence of such men. Illiteracy and religious intolerance prevailed during the Dark Ages.
At the end of this period the Muslims had conquered parts of the Roman empire and established their rule in Spain, Portugal and parts of France. They introduced the learning of the Greeks and Romans as well as knowledge gathered from their contacts with India. This set the pace for Martin Luther�s reformation which broke the power of the Catholic Church. The ensuing liberal policies persuaded by the Protestants brought about the Renaissance, after this the Europeans pushed back the power of the Churches and began to make progress in civilisation.
In contrast to this with the rise of Buddhism in India, there arose many centres of learning which did not exist before. Buddhist monks could opt for a life of meditation in the forests, or a life of teaching, preaching, propagating the Dharma as a result of the activities of the teaching monks, seats of learning arose. These seats of monastic learning (Pirivenas) gradually developed and some of them became full-fledged universities. As a result Buddhist India came to have five major universities which achieved wide fame. These five were 1. Nalanda, 2. Vickramasila, 3. Odantapuri, 4. Jagadalala and 5. Somapura.
Nalanda University
Nalanda is the best known of ancient India�s universities. It�s site has been discovered and it�s ruins have been preserved by India�s Department of Archeology. It is situated in Bihar State, the ancient Magadha country. Magadha is well known as the cradle of Buddhism. Bihar is so called because it had a large number of Viharas or Buddhist monasteries. Nalanda was a prosperous city during the days of the Buddha. He visited it during his preaching itineraries. When in Nalanda, the Buddha sojourned at Ambavana the mango-park with his disciples. Nalanda was also the home town of Ven. Sariputra, King Asoka had erected a Stupa at the spot where he was cremated.
We get a comprehensive account of Nalanda university from Hieun Tsang the brilliant Chinese scholar who came there for his studies during the reign of King Harsha-Siladitya. Back in China he wrote this famed “Ta – Tang – Si – Yu – Ki” Buddhist Travels in the western world. This has been translated into English by Samuel Beal a British scholar who was once the ambassador to Peking, China.
It has been called the treasure house of accurate information by European Archeologists. They found the information given there invaluable for them to locate the sacred shrines of the Buddhist in India. Indians and their scholars were hopelessly ignorant of these places and could do nothing to help the archeologists. I – Tsing (675-685) was another Chinese monk who came to India and studied at Nalanda. He too like Hiuen Tsang has left an account of his travels. In this he gives an account of Nalanda and his stay there. At the time of Fa-Hion�s visit it was an ordinary Buddhist monastery. Lama Taranata the Tibetan historian also gives an account of Nalanda in his works.
It appears that King Kumara Gupta (AC 415-455) built the first monastery at Nalanda. It was a seminary for training Buddhist monks. It�s site was not too for nor too close to the city. Hence it was selected as an ideal centre for the pursuit of Buddhist studies by monks. Nalanda University was an expansion and extension of this seminary. King Buddha Gupta (AC 455-467) Jatagatha Gupta (AC 467-500) Baladitya (500-525) and Vijra (525) made additions and expansions to the buildings. King Baladitya made a shrine-room a house of worship which was 300 feet high. His son Vijra built the fifth monastery. King Harsha Siladitya built the sixth monastery and surrounded the university buildings with 9� high wall. In the 10th century when Hieun Tsang entered the university, there were 10,000 resident students. They came from all parts of India and foreign lands. It was India�s leading University. It�s chancellorship was reserved for India�s foremost Buddhist scholar when Hieun-Tsang visited Nalanda Silabhadra Maha Thera held the post. At that time there were 10,000 students, 1510 teachers, and about 1,500 workers at Nalanda. Students from foreign lands such as Tibet, China, Japan, Korea, Sumatra, Java and Sri Lanka were found there. Admission to Nalanda was by oral examination. This was done by a professor at the entrance hall. He was called Dvara Pandita. Proficiency in Sanskrit was necessary, as it was the medium of instruction. All Chinese monks going to India for higher studies in Buddhism had to go to Java and brush up their Sanskrit. Hieum Tsang reports that of the foreign students only 20% managed to pass the stiff examinations. Of the Indian students only 30% managed to pass and gain admission. Therefore the standard required were high. Casts, creed and nationality were no barriers in keeping with the Buddhist spirit. There were no external students at the university. Nalanda was maintained by the revenue from seven villages which were granted by the king. The study of Mahayana was compulsory for Buddhists. One could also study the doctrines of 18 other Buddhist sects. One could also study secular subjects like science, medicine, astrology, fine-arts, literature etc. The six systems of Hindu philosophy were also taught. One could study Hinayana forms of Buddhism. This included the Theravada commerce, administration and astronomy were also taught. The observatory of the university was situated in a very tall building. Lectures, debates and discussions were part of the educational curriculum. Hieun Tsang states that 100 lectures were delivered there every day. The discipline was exemplary.
Nalanda university occupied an area of 30 acres. There were three large libraries bearing the names Ratna-Sagara, Ratna-Nidi and Ratna-Ranjana. One of these was nine storeys high. Nalanda was graced by the presence of India�s most brilliant Buddhist luminaries. Some of them were Nagarjuna, Aryadeva, Dharmapala, Silabhadra, Santarakshita, Kamalaseela, Bhaviveka, Dignaga, Dharmakeerty etc. The works they left behind are mostly available 14 Tibetan and Chinese translations. The originals perished when Muslim invaders under Bhaktiar Khilji set fire to Nalanda and beheaded the monks. (AD 1037), Prior to that Nalanda flourished for a thousand years, a lighthouse of wisdom and learning, the first of it�s kind in the world. Bhaktiar Khilji the invader of Magadha set fire to Nalanda. When the monks were about to have their meals. This is revealed in the archeological remains which show food abandoned in a great hurry. Charred rice from the granaries also tell this sorry tale. Nalanda�s ruins and excavations are preserved in a Museum by the Indian government. On 19.11.58 the President of India, Rajendra Prasad inaugurated the Nava Nalanda Viharaya at a site close to the ancient university. Master of the Tripitaka Ven. Jagadish Kashyap was appointed head of the institution on 12. 01. 1957 the Dalai Lama handed over the ashes of Nalanda�s famed alumni – Hieun Tsang to the Indian government, headed by Pandit Nehru. The Chinese government donated five lakhs of rupees for a mausoleum which enshrines these relics. The Muslims carried the university idea to the West, and after that universities came up in the western – world.
Vickramasila
Vickramasila is said to have been situated on the banks of the Ganges near the northern part of Magadha. Although it�s site was undiscovered, the Indian newspaper �Searchlight� of 25.4.80 carried an account of the discovery of the ruins of Vickramsila by Dr. B. S. Varma, Superintending Archeologist in charge of the discovery of the ruins of the Vickramsila Excavation Project.
According to this Vickramasila was situated at Antichak Village, Kahalagon, Bagalpur District Vickramasila was said to be a sister institution of Nalanda and was said to have been founded by a monk called Kamapala, under the patronage of King Dharmapala. (AC 770-810). The King granted land-endowments for it�s upkeep later King Yasapala also patronised the institutions by liberal land endowments. Under the Pala Kings Vickramasila rose to 9 positions when it rivalled Nalanda and bade well to outshine it. In the centre of the university was the main lecture-hall. It was called �Vidyagriha�. There were six entrances to this building and near each entrance was a monastery for resident monks about 150 teachers were accommodated in each monastery. Like Nalanda Vickramasila was also surrounded by a high-wall. There were six �Dvara Panditas� i.e Professors who examined candidates seeking admission. Here too high standards were maintained. 108 Professors were engaged in teaching and administrative duties. The curriculum of studies was similar to that of Nalanda. Here preference was given to the Tantric form of Buddhism.
Dipankara Sri Gnana who is also known as Atisha (AC 960-1055) was the more-famous of the scholars of Vickramasila. His fame spread far and wide as the propagator of Buddhism in Tibet Tibetans hold his name in the highest veneration. When he was at Vickramasila he was invited to teach and propagate Buddhism in Tibet. He postponed it for some time till he completed his work at Vickramasila and then undertook the task. Vickramasila achieved it�s high water mark of prosperty and fame under him. Sri Gnana�s period was the golden era of Vickramasila. In 1038 Sri Gnana left Vickramsila for Tibet to organise Buddhist studies in that country. Vickramasila was managed by a staff of Professors. They constituted the Board of Education, Board of Administration, Board of Discipline and the Board in charge of entrance examinations. Inaugurated in about 800 A.C. it graced the land until it was demolished by the Muslim invaders.
Odantapuri
Odantapuri was considered the second oldest of India�s universities. This was situated in Maghada, about 6 miles away from Nalanda. Acharya Sri Ganga of Vickramasila had been a student here. Later he joined Odantapuri King Gopala (660-705) was the patron who helped to found this university. According to the Tibetan records there were about 12,000 students at Odantapuri. Our knowledge of this seat of learning is obscure, and we are not in a position to give more details. This too perished at the hands of the Muslim invaders. It is said they mistook the universities with their high walls for fortresses. They thought the Buddhist monks were “Shaven headed Brahmins” who were idolaters.
Somapura
Somapura was situated in East Pakistan. King Devapala (AC 810-850) is said to have erected the Dharmapala-Vihara at Somapura. The ruins of these buildings cover an area of about 1 square mile. There was a large gate and the buildings were surrounded by a high-wall. There were about 177 cells for monks in additions to the shrines and image houses. A common refectory and a kitchen are among the ruins, Remains of three -strayed buildings are to be seen. This university flourished for about 750 years before it was abandoned after the Muslim invasion.
Jagaddala
King Ramapala (1077-1129) is said to be the founder of this University. Jagaddala University was the largest construction works undertaken by the Pala Kings. This was a centre for the study and dissemination of Tantric Buddhism. It followed the methods, practices, and traditions of Nalanda. According to Tibetan works many books were translated to the Tibetan language at Jagaddala. The Buddhist teacher Sakya Sri Bhadra, seeing that Nalanda, Vickramsila, and Odantapuri were in ruins after the Muslim invasion, entered Jagaddala for his studies. It is said that his pupil Danaseela translated ten books to Tibetan Sakya Sri Bhadra was responsible for the propagation of Tatntric Buddhism in Tibet. He lived for seven years at Jagaddala. In 1027 the Muslim invaders sack and destroyed Jagaddala.
Vallabhi
Vallabhi University achieved as much fame as Nalanda. The Maitraka kings who ruled Western India constructed a monastery at Vallabhitheir capital. While Nalanda was the centre for Mahayana Buddhism, Vallabhi achieved fame as the centre for Hinayana Buddhism. The Maitraka kings spent lavishly to maintain their university. They gave every encouragement and assistance to Buddhist studies at this institution. In the 7th century Vallabhi was as prosperous and famous as Nalanda. Hieum Tsang visited Vallabhi, and reported in his “Ta-Tang-Si-Yu-Ki” as follows:
-”The population of Vallabhi is very large. The country is rich and prosperous. There are over a hundred millionaire families there. Imported luxury goods are seen in this city. There are about 100 monasteries with about 6,000 Buddhist monks. Most of them belong to the Sammitiya Sect. There are also many Hindu temples and a large Hindu population in this past of the country. The Buddha had visited this land during his ministry. There are stupas erected by King Asoka to mark the spots hallowed by the Buddha�s visit.”
There are about 100 shrines and about 6,000 resident monks studying at Vallabhi. They do not believe that Abhidharma was the teaching of the Buddha. They believed in the Antarabhava doctrine and were exponents of Puggalavada a traditions that disregards Abhidharma teachings that are inconsistent with the Sutra-Teachings.
I -Tsing�s record
I-Tsing records that foreign students were found at Vallabhi. They come from many lands far and near from these facts we know that like Nalanda-Vallabhi was internationally recognised. There was a large library. This was maintained by a fund established by the King. An inscription put up by King Guhasena confirms this. Precedence was given to Sammitiya doctrines at this University. The course of studies included Comparative Religion. The Six systems of Hindu Philosophy and various other schools of Buddhism, Politics, Law, Agriculture, Economics also formed a part of the curriculum.
I-Tsing records that the graduates of Vallabhi, displayed their skill in the presence of the royalty, nobbles, and other eminent people. The Elders Gunamoti and Sthiramatic were Nalanda�s alumni and were teaching there for a time. They are said to be the founders of Vallabhi. As the founders came from Nalanda, Vallabhi followed the Nalanda pattern in most of it�s activities. It flourished from 475 to 1200 A.C. It met the same fate as other Universities at the hands of the Muslim invaders.
Thus it would be seen that as long as Buddhism was a power to reckon with in India, it rendered yoemen service in the field of learning and culture. This is how it should be in a religion that teaches that ignorance is the worst enemy of Mao and the cause of ace his sufferings while knowledge (Pragnya) is his highest asset. Pragnya wins all that is good in this world, and finally brings him the highest happiness, mundane as well as supra-mundane.
When the Portuguese conquered the Kotte Kingdom there were flourishing Buddhist Seminaries (Pirivenas) at Totagamauwa, Keragala, and Wattala. The Sandesa poems of the period give glowing descriptions of them and their rectors. They were all raised to the ground “leaving not one stone upon another” according to Portuguese writers of the period. Quyroz mentions the demolition of the Wattala Vijayabahu Pirivena and the erection of the R. C. Church on it�s land. Then followed an age of ignorance, decay and corruption for some 200 years. Finally during the reign of King Kirti Sri Rajasinha, Ven. Weliwita Saranankara started his Buddhist revival opening his Seminary at Niyamakanda, Udunnwara. His papillary successors opened the Vidyoda and Vidyalankara Pirivenas in Colombo. These Seminaries were upgraded and converted to secular Universities by the S.L.F.P. Government.
-ooOoo-
Source: The Island, Sri Lanka, 15 May 2003, http://www.island.lk/index.html
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last updated: 21-05-2003
you cannot even dismiss this as Brahman propaganda since this was written by a Sri-Lankan Sinhala Buddhist and not an Indian Brahman.
PS Sri Lanka still has scrolls from the period before, during and after the Buddhist age in India which record what happened so they, along with the Tibetan and Chinese scrolls narrate what happened during that period. if we know anything about this period, then it is using the scrolls of Huen-Tsang, Fa Hian, Tibetan scholars and Sri-Lankan scholars who studied at these place and left records back home since all the Indian records were destryed by the Muslim invaders.
PPS None of them ever talk about even the slightest hint of a Hindu collusion to the destruction except blaming the Muslim hordes. that theory has not even existed among any spectrum of Muslim scholars. you can check it up.
so there!
Not that anyone should take anything that you say seriously, but there it is fun to debunk everything that you say so that you do not misinform other readers which is what you are here for.
CM
You are a brainless moth Tajender talked about. What he did not say is that in you were born with a shit in the place meant for brain. Even Kannt was unaware of this.
Rex Minor
Fingolfin,u say that,
Sakraditya was one of the last ruling descendants of the Guptas
those days people were converting to budhhdism.he was buhdhdist and nalanda was a budhdhist seat of learning,aryabhatt was product of that jnstitute.he was not brhmn.in hindu period only brhmns were allowed to study.
ashok died as budhdhist after kalinga mascare he converted as repentance.hinduism is not religion actually it is nemesis of all religion.
brhmns destroyed/converted nearly all of budhdhist institutions.DEVDASIS WERE BUDHDHIST NUNS WHO USED TO BE RAPE IN TEMPLE AFTER BUDHDHIST DEFEAT.
NALANDA WAS DESTROYED ON ADVISE OF BRHMNS WHO DESTROYED NEARLY ALL BUDHDHIST INSTITUTION EARLIER.
before u fabricated ram janam bhumi story which was nothing but fraud with people of india.ram was never born in ayodhya.before tulsidaas
nobody knew of him in ayodhya.
somnath was not destroyed ,it was looted,purpose was financial not religous.this act also took place with the help of competing brhmns.it was step in right direction,money looted provided jobs to thousands of hungry unemployed indian.i hope same fate for south indian temples.who are hiding trillions of dollars in their basement while people of kerala were hungry.vivekanand called this land of vedas as asylum of lunatics.arab muslim countries provided them with lucrative jobs and properity returned.
it is under muslim rule that chitrakoot was built all 4 ashrams of aadi shankara charyas were constructed,ayodhya became a vibrant municipality from sleeping village.
u people call ur spiritual fascism and intellectual gundaism as non violence.
if yoga is science,can u produce any certificate from independent lab.one yoga guru performed yoga while totally naked,leading to the divorce of kimkirdishan.ramdev is the biggest thug india has.brhmns is another name of fraud and corruption.
now nitish and party should be prepared of brhmncl attack and communal riots on nalanda issue.
jahan hove santan ka war
hua wahan ka bhantdhar.
u people kept india hostage on ram issue for 8 years.made 4000 crores which will be 40000 crores.
Odantapuri, also called Odantapura or Uddandapura, was a Buddhist vihara in what is now Bihar.why u hide this.like any other rss man ur postings are bundle of half truth and untruth.
why u could not produce other aryabhatt.because u depend on lies.university there was budhdhist.bihar means vihar.viharas wer budhdhist.
65 years after independence did u people produced any intellectual/scientist of international standard.our head of iim is in jail on frauc and cheating.
Tajender Paki,
the world’s matter today is made up of fermions and bosons. Guess where the term boson came from?
.
Yes you guessed it correctly! (Now that is a joke) Yes bosons are called bosons because of Satyender Nath Bose!
Tajender,
Is there nothing that you find in the thousand and one stories that FF has put out,which tells us about Indian hindus? I am very keen to learn about the Mohengodaro people who from the excavation work done todate indicate that their life style was as superior as that of people in Pompei but no sign of temples or any form of statues.
Rex Minor
Tajender
i am saying all those Universities i named are Buddhist you blithering idiot! i am not trying to say that they are Hindu.
i only gave you the information i did to try and tell you that inall these universities Hinduism was taught too and that Hindus( especially Brahmans) had a vested interest in them so there was no incentive to destroy them. do you know how to read?
and more importantly posted to tell you that they were all destroyed by Muslim invaders and this was responsible in part, in sending India into the dark ages. India, which was once the most learned country in the world was pushed into ignorance by barbarian iconoclastic Muslim hordes. that is all. don’t glean anything else and anything wrong.
Tajender
did you even read my post about how the foundations of Nalanda were laid?
it was laid by the HIndu Gupta dynasty. Sakraditya was a Hindu since he was a descendant of the Guptas who were as i have mentioned, HIndu kings.
anyway, the first monastery was laid there by Kumar Gupta who was one of the Great Guptas and decidedly Hindu.
Ashoka did not convert. have read several historians versions aboout the period and they all say that there is no official record of his conversion or adoption of Buddhism as state policy. nowhere has a mentioned the Buddha in all his rock edicts and nowhere has he mentioned the noble eight fold path. but it does not matter whether he was or not. i am only trying to tell you that Buddhism spread in India because of the patronage of Hindu Kings otherwise it would have died out like many other sects in the Mauryan period like the Ajivikas who had the patronage of Ashoka’s father but no subsequent kings.
after all the evidence i ave given you, you fail to see that Islamic hordes destroyed Budhist seats of learning.
how can Brahmans have destroyed them when for thousands of years Brahmans and Buddhists studied together? when HIndu KIngs patronized Buddhism? NALANDA WAS ALSO A SEAT FOR LEARNING IN HINDUISM. SO BRAHMANS HAD AN INTEREST VESTED IN THESE UNIVERSITIES. TO STUDY IN THEM, YOU HAD TO LEARN SANSKRIT FIRST.
why don’t you try and refute any specific point that i have raised and then talk? repeating the same nonsense again and again wont change the facts.
point is, nobody accepts your hogwash theories. you are trying to protect the most bloodthirsty vandals because they share a religion with you.
you are an incorrigible lunatic. after all the information and specific rebuttals i made to you, your academic spectrum only allows you to repeat the same monotone that you post in every bloody article without even changing the wording.
you are a living example of the dangers of blind organized religion. you and that sidekick of yours Minor. he is tailor made to follow in your footsteps and even begs you to show him the way.
so why don’t you show your sidekick a new parody on Hinduism? common! all of us here are getting tired with the same old thing.
how about a new theory where HIndus were responsible for all the disasters that have ever plagued mankind? your sidekick is yearning and the rest of us are looking for new entertainment.
as far as not producing anyone other than Aryabhatta( who was a Brahman because only Brahmans use the suffix ‘Bhatta’ which is use for learned Brahmans) is concerned, here.
Aryabhata – Astronomer who gave accurate calculations for astronomical constants, 476AD-520AD
Bhaskara I
Brahmagupta – Helped bring the concept of zero into arithmetic (598 AD-670 AD)
Mahavira
Pavuluri Mallana – the first Telugu Mathematician
Varahamihira
Shridhara (between 650-850) – Gave a good rule for finding the volume of a sphere.
Narayana Pandit
Madhava of Sangamagrama some elements of Calculus hi
Parameshvara (1360–1455), discovered drk-ganita, a mode of astronomy based on observations, Madhava’s Kerala school
Nilakantha Somayaji,1444-1545 – Mathematician and Astronomer, Madhava’s Kerala school
Mahendra Suri (14th century)
Shankara Variyar (c. 1530)
Raghunatha Siromani, (1475–1550), Logician, Navadvipa school
Jyeshtadeva, 1500–1610, Author of Yuktibhāṣā, Madhava’s Kerala school
Achyuta Pisharati, 1550–1621, Astronomer/mathematician, Madhava’s Kerala school
Munishvara (17th century)
Kamalakara (1657)
Jagannatha Samrat (1730)
Ramchandra (1821–1880)
Ganesh Prasad (1876–1935)
Srinivasa Ramanujan (1887–1920)
A. A. Krishnaswami Ayyangar (1892–1953)
HAPPY?! i know i have posted this to you before, but you are the kind of guy who seems to need constant reminding.
since your academic ability only allows you to repeat certain things, you force the people trying to correct you to repeat the same thin over and over again.
so be it. i am a patient guy.
Tajender
Defend Islam by defending Islam and not by incriminating Hinduism. not doing so is flawed logic.
there i did it again. i repeated something that i have been sayin today. with you i know it is a must.
Fingolfin,
Erwin Schödinger, an Austrian, the father of quantum physics, who won the Nobel Prize for Physics, was a Hindu.
.
He read books on Vedas, Yoga, Sankhya, etc. The Upanishadas were his favorite. He kept them near his bedside. In fact he was inspired in his research by the Hindu philosophy. His biographer Walter Moore says that “Schrödinger rejected traditional Semitic beliefs not on the basis of any reasoned argument, nor even with an expression of emotional antipathy, for he loved to use religious expressions and metaphors, but simply by saying they are naive”.
i only gave you the information i did to try and tell you that inall these universities Hinduism was taught too and that Hindus( especially Brahmans) had a vested interest in them so there was no incentive to destroy them. do you know how to read
hinduism is taught everywhere.budhdhism and hinduism are like mangoose and serpent.nuslims never burnt anybodys education institution.hate and voilence is sole propriety of brhaahams.muslim malaysia is builting best budhhdist temples they already have best ayyapan temple.
when brhmnsts came in power they declared the reward of 52 gold coin on the head of every bodh bhikhsu.this was the level of hatred.brhmns never fight themselve,sometime they used rajputs sometime muslims sometime backwards(modi)sometime sikhs(advani too is sikh).a religion which is based on hatred for others cannot produce balance personality.u people are expert in fabricating unconvincing stories,which others are supposed to believe.
LIE IS THE STAPLE FOOD OF HINDUS.
RajTOO says:
July 18, 2012 at 7:27 pm
Fingolfin,
Erwin Schödinger, an Austrian, the father of quantum physics, who won the Nobel Prize for Physics, was a Hindu
he was born and died as jew.might interest in hindu holy scripture.
as far as not producing anyone other than Aryabhatta( who was a Brahman because only Brahmans use the suffix ‘Bhatta’ which is use for learned Brahmans)
he was bania bhatti or bhatia even now are the bania surname.
in system where non brhmn and women was kept ignorant how other will shine.
brhmn is not hindu and hindu is not brhmn.
Ashoka did not convert. have read several historians versions aboout the period and they all say that there is no official record of his conversion or adoption of Buddhism
may be u read jansanghi historian after killing almost entire population of kalinga.he converted to budhdhism.like ambedkar who said that I AM BORN AS HINDU BUT I WILL NEVER DIE AS HINDU.converted to budhdhism with lacs of his supporters in bombay.
dont read jansanghi historians,they are liars.
Tajender,
It doesn’t matter whether he was a Jew. The point is he was a brilliant scientist, a brilliant brain, something way beyond you Paki Islamists! And as a brilliant brain he could see the truths hidden in Hindu scriptures.
.
The only Muslims who have still shown some promise are those 1 or 2 generations away from conversion. Any one longer in Islam is as dumb as a dodo! It is the religion of the inferior man – Homo Inbredus!
Pakistani English newspapers are spreading lies –
http://tribune.com.pk/story/409902/bomb-kills-eight-in-orakzai-agency-official/#comments
Why would Taliban kill Shias? Shias are protected dhimmis.
BTW Schrodinger was not a jew.
LIE IS THE STAPLE FOOD OF ISLAM, MUSLIMS AND THOSE WHO SUPPORT THEM.
Dr. Ambedkar warned dalits against the muslims and islam very sternly. Some muslims tried to corrupt him to become a muslim. He was offended by them and he rejected them with harsh words. He called islam as treachery against India.
Fingolfin says:
July 18, 2012 at 6:23 pm
Tajender
Defend Islam by defending Islam and not by incriminating Hinduism. not doing so is flawed logic.
there i did it again. i repeated something that i have been sayin today. with you i know it is a must
U HAVE THE RIGHT TO KEEP TO UR OPINION.BUT EVERYWHERE U TRIED UR LEVEL BEST TO HIDE THAT NALANDA AND OTHER INSTITUTIONS WERE BUDHDHISTS.DONT DO THIS.RSS IS ZOINIST.THEY MAKE STORIES TO START VOILENCE,LIKE IN RAM MANDIR.THE ENTIRE STORY WAS NOTHING BUT LIE AND FRAUD.