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PAKISTANIAT KI AWAAZ
By Noor Ejaz Chaudhry:
Whenever I come across poetry or prose written by nationalistic writers of the past, I think: Pakistan; my country, my culture, my belief and most importantly, my identity. We are defined by hues of green and white, we are known by our rich cultural heritage and people like you and me; we are believed to be the revolutionary future of the country whose crescent marked flag waves proudly above our heads. Pakistan was built on the valor of our men, the courage of our women, the faith of our children and with the prayers of our elders. We built Pakistan upon our unity, our faith and our discipline and thus turned it into a nation that I am proud to be a part of.
In a decade of war and terrorism, to find a unified nation is like finding a diamond in the rough. We, the Pakistanis, stood strong in the face of adversity and showed the world who we truly are and what we stand for on the eve of 30thOctober, 2011. 350,000 of us joined hands to find a change bigger than ourselves. We are Pakistan’s today and we are her tomorrow. As Imran Khan united the nation in just a matter of a few hours, I realized, the foundation of Pakistan was still alive; we are united, we are strong. As I start thinking, I cannot help but notice the harmony seeping into the minds of the youth. Today, as I stand alongside forty others under the banner of Next Generation Pakistan, I can see that no matter where we are, we will change our country and we will expel the demons haunting her sovereignty and integrity. After saving the lives of our Pakistani brethren in Sindh after the devastating floods of 2011, we knew that before being Christians or Sikhs or Hindus we are Pakistanis first and to respect each and every citizen is our lawful duty. To this day, no matter where I am, whenever I hear our beautiful National Anthem playing somewhere, I can feel unity soaring in the air like a proud eagle. With our heads held high and our wills strong, together we have sworn to protect our country, come whatever may.
When I was a child, my mother told me, “You are what you believe in”. I believe in my nation. I have faith in her abilities and thus, I am a proud Pakistani. There are many others like me, who have put their faith in their nation. Without faith, we are not only hopeless but without direction. Our industry is striving hard to flourish in hopes of a better tomorrow. Our people are working day and night, knowing that there will be a better tomorrow. They have found their faith in Allah and they are working hard to create a better tomorrow for us and themselves. To this day, our elders can be found in mosques, sitting quietly in a corner, reminiscing 1947, their hardships and sacrifices and yet, still rocking back and forth on their arthritic knees, with prayer beads moving rapidly. What are they praying for? All the luxuries life has to offer? They lost it all to see Pakistan. Are they praying for better health? They sacrificed it when they spent all they spent the rest of 1947 nearly dying of starvation and cold. Their prayer beads are moving because they believe that Pakistan is destined for greatness, that their sacrifices have not gone to waste and that there is always light at the end of the tunnel. That is faith. That is our strength. That is our “Pakistaniat”.
For any country to succeed, it must have a deep sense of discipline. Today, the Pakistan Army lies amongst the top ten armies of the world because of their gallantry and undying spirit. Our men’s display of remarkable courage and bravery has sent shivers down the spines of the strongest of men and thus, kept aggressors away. Their motivation and will to keep Pakistan secure from all trespassers is not only phenomenal but it is also an inspiration for us all. The discipline and integrity with which our men represent our country in the field shows the fierce determination of the Pakistani people. It clearly depicts how well the fundamentals, upon which Pakistan was built, have been instilled within our beings. You can even find our embedded sense of discipline in a mosque on a simple Friday. Be it children or elders, rich or poor, strong or weak, everyone stands together, side by side in a congregation, hoping and praying for goodwill and prosperity. They know and believe that Pakistan is bound to change by a simple touch of harmony and discipline. Thus, they stand like Muslim brothers in faith and forget about all that is happening outside the confines of heirmosques. It is only when they stand oblivious to any judgments and biases, do they realize that the spirits of Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Allama Iqbal, Chaudhri Rehmat live on in them and they must keep the spirit of discipline alive and running.
Pakistan is facing a time of turmoil, just like any other country, but she will get back up on her feet with our undying faith in her. If we call ourselves Pakistanis, it is our duty to act like ones too. If our esteemed leader Mohammad Ali Jinnah could sacrifice his life for Pakistan, why can’t we strive to make it a better land for our future generations? To hold hands with my people to bring about change, that is unity. To be a Pakistani till the day I die; that is my faith. Lastly, to make Pakistan proud and carry her legacy with us, wherever we go; that is our discipline. Together, these three elements not only form the foundation of Pakistan, but they also define who we, the people of Pakistan, are.
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Noor, good job. You write well and positively – a double credit to you. Let’s all continue to learn so we may be able to narrow our differences one day.
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Indians, without thinking for anyone else, I personally wouldn’t battle a child. Even in practical terms, people like Raza Rumi and skeptical will be able to influence a well-intentioned Pakistani youngster far more than Indians would. Perhaps one could state that there is an alternate view and move on.
“Today, the Pakistan Army lies amongst the top ten armies of the world
countries keep army.in case of pakistan,ARMY KEEP A COUNTRY.worth of a brigadier is 50plus million dollars.how he can be good soldier.
Kaal, we are all children in one way or other.
But truth cannot be obfuscated — and the simple truth of the matter is that Pakistan is a screwed-up place — I was going to let the kiddo have a pass until he went around praising the very institution which is the root of most of its problems (leaving aside the deeper root of communal hatred)!!
A moron is a moron, what has age got to do with it?!!
Like you, the Pakistani army sells the line that wiley Hindus are at the root of all the problems
i say brhmns,iam right.india has bad relations with all its neighbours.that does not mean that pak army or isi consists of angles.
to riaz
Among mafia there is an agreement: “you don’t reveal my crimes and I don’t reveal yours.” This way mafia protect each other.
You are trying something similar: “you don’t criticize my religion and I don’t criticize yours.” That sort of a thing. “I respect your religion hence you must respect mine”. That too is a tricky form of avoiding criticism and islam has specialized itself in this.
That is the attitude that fascist religions/ideologies like and want. Silence criticism by calling it blasphemy or by saying that it is hurting feelings and sentiments etc. and thus suppress criticism.
That is the reason why islam and muslims are sliding deeper and deeper into fascism.
“Faith, unity and discipline” is the slogan of fascism.
Pakistani muslims are too deeply indoctrinated into “faith” (and hence self-deceit) to be able to recognize which tricks this self-glorifying arab religion plays on them and misleads and misuses them.
As a muslim you think islam is wonderful religion. You have no other choice but to think like that.
Does your “wonderful” religion encourage and protect honesty? It doesn’t and it can’t. The crimes which muslims have committed (due to the teachings of islam) against non-muslims are many over the past 1400 years. Your are trying the trick of remaining silent over them or about them by saying such inanities like: “I don’t criticize you so you don’t criticize me”.
The fact that ahem is equating islam to ‘alien-arab-imperialisth faiths’ is a testament to the fact that he himself is not informed and does not think himself. He does not think rationally because he thinks what people in his country generally believe it to be. Hence, by extension of logic the definition he so gently laid out for a dumbhead is applicable to himself. Logic then dictates that he himself is a dumbhead.
Its preposterous how ahem feels diversity is better than unity. If you advocate for diversity, then you oppose unity. And by opposing unity, you oppose universality. And by opposing universality you oppose the idea that some laws, that some dictates of moral and social reasoning are a common heritage of mankind regardless of boundaries, cultures and ethnic backgrounds. Diversity is the recipee for conflict.
to bakhtawar
Diversity and inequality is the normal way of life and has to be accepted as such. Then there is no conflict. Unity/equality has to be enforced – and that needs fascism. If all human are equal then why don’t you take someone from the slums of Karachi and appoint him as the chief of army staff or as the director of some science institute (if there is any in Pakistan).
Pakistan’s development proves that my analysis is correct and yours is wrong.
Aren’t non-arab muslims giving arabic names to their children? Is arabic script (and vocabulary) not being enforced on non-arabic languages? Aren’t the heroes of arabic militarism-imperialism being enforced as heroes of mankind? Islam in deed is an arabic imperialism. As a muslim you dare not analyse it like that or say so openly.
Universality of diversity is a concept which a totalitarian ideology like islam does not and cannot understand and tolerate. To bind untity and universality together is the path to fascism. All islam-based societies are proving this.
Monotheism is by nature totalitarian and polytheism is by nature open-minded. Hence monotheism has to be protected by use of violence and fascism. Here again islam is the proof. the islamic god-concept is one concept anmong many god-concepts. And it is a totalitarian-fascist god-concept due to its monotheistic claims.
inequality
man is born equal.u dont believe this.that is why hinduism is mother of apartheim and nazism.
hindu hai jahan gharebe hai wahan.20000 muslim lads are languishing in india jail only because they are muslim.
Aren’t non-arab muslims giving arabic names to their children
sanskrit is not indian language.brhmns brought this with them.it is as alien as arabic.
Universality of diversity is a concept which a totalitarian ideology like islam does not and cannot understand and tolerate
this is what islam says foolish.in brhmnsm it depends on birth
to tajender
tajender the blind hater and self-deceiver.
akb re minor ahem and rajtoo,seetrue phase of brhmnsm,
Shyam Chand, a Dalit scholar and activist who served for many years as member of the Haryana Legislative Assembly, quotes from a secret circular sent out by the RSS to its preachers. It clearly indicates the sinister Brahminical strategy of using the Dalit-Bahujans to attack the Muslims and Christians, while at the same time aiming to keep the Dalit-Bahujans under the permanent slavery of the ‘upper’ castes.
Excerpts from Secret Circular No.411 issued by the RSS:
[.] Scheduled Castes and Other Backward Classes are to be recruited to the party so as to increase the volunteers to fight against the Ambedkarites and Mussalmans.
Hindutva should be preached with a vengeance among physicians and pharmacists so that, with their help, time expired [sic.] and spurious medicines might be distributed amongst the Scheduled Castes, Mussalmans and Scheduled Tribes. The newborn infants of Shudras, Ati-Shudras, Mussalmans, Christians and the like should be crippled by administering injections to them. To this end, there should be a show of blood-donation camps.
Encouragement and instigation should be carried on [sic.] more vigorously so that the womenfolk of Scheduled Castes, Mussalmans and Christians live by prostitution.
Plans should be made more foolproof so that the people of the Scheduled Castes, Backward Classes, Musslamans and Christians, especially the Ambedkarites, become crippled by taking in [sic.] harmful eatables.
Special attention should be given to the students of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes so as to make them read the history written according to our dictates.
During riots the women of Mussalmans and Scheduled Castes should be gang-raped. Friends and acquaintances cannot be spared. The work should proceed on the Surat model.
Publication of writings against Mussalmans, Christians, Buddhists and Ambedkarites should be accelerated. Essays and writings should be published in such a way as to prove that Ashoka was opposed to the Aryans.
All literature opposed to Hindus and Brahmins are [sic.] to be destroyed. Dalits, Mussalmans, Christians and Ambedkarites should be searched out. Care should be taken to see that this literature do [sic.] not reach public places. Hindu literature is to apply [sic.] to the Backward Classes and Ambedkarites.
The demand by the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes for filling in the backlog vacancies in services shall by no means be met. Watch should be kept to see that their demands for entry and promotion in government, non-government or semi-government institutions are to be rejected and their service records are destroyed with damaging reports.
Measures should be taken to make the prejudices amongst Scheduled Castes and Backward people more deep-rooted. To this end, help must be taken from saints and ascetics.
Attacks should be started with vigour against equality, preaching communists [sic.], Ambedkarites, Islamic teachers, Christian missionaries and neighbours [?].
Assaults should be made on Ambedkar’s statues with greater efforts.
Dalit and Muslim writers are to be recruited to the party and by them essays and literature opposed to the Dalits, Ambedkarites and Mussalmans written and preached [sic.]. Attention is to be paid to see that these writings are properly edited and preached [sic.].
Those opposed to Hindutva are to be murdered through false encounters. For this work the help of the police and semi-military [sic.] forces should always be taken.”[2]
*
In the face of this circular, no more evidence is needed to show what Hindutva actually bodes for the Dalit-Bahujans. It circular very clearly indicates that Hindutva aims essentially at preserving the oppression of the Dalit-Bahujans, in addition to the Muslims and Christians, on which the entire edifice of Brahminism stands.
tajender,
30,000 Hindu lads are not languishing in Paki jails because they are dead!
Bhaktawar,
Is the Islamic unity of Pakistan the reason that there is so much peace there?
tajender,
there are no Dalit scholars. Dalit is a Western word coined by West-influenced idiots.
.
In no Indian scripture is the word Dalit used.
.
Gandhi used to call them Harijan. Officially they are called SC/ST.
.
Only those who are on Christian dole use the word Dalit. There are no Dalits in India. There are no Dalit scholars. Those who call themselves that are all on the payroll of the Opus Dei and Baptists!
30,000 Hindu lads are not languishing in Paki jails because they are dead!
bullshit and wrong
there are no Dalit scholars
speech is dalit politician not scholar.ghandhi as usual insulted them by calling them harijan.
harijans are bastards of kerala usually called as nair.
Let something remain as positive as it can be. The article says” Pakistaniat” great job on it Noor!
Uniformilty cant be confused with unity. There is unity of life not unity of life forms. Diversity is the divine expression of life. Out of 6 Billion kaffirs human in th world, how many looks alike. Uniformity OTOH, is sign of death, death of mind and all other human faculties, hence a 400% disqualification from human society. some one sadi, the sign of wisdom and intelligence is to to hold many complex ,contradicting toughts in mind and yet still not be slaved to them. Bakhtawar is right, Musalmans must be exepmted form such Kuffar norms and not be subject to such mental cruelty.
MR.AHEM: “someone from the slums of Karachi and appoint him as the chief of army staff or as the director of some science institute (if there is any in Pakistan”
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA now i understand what the problem is. i should have thought of this before. MR.AHEm, you are one insensible , insecure, naive individual, living in the luxury of the ‘European Union’. YOU FOOL, do you have any idea what Pakistan has achieved in the field of science? we have one of the best nuclear programs. Pakistan’s opponents have been trying to find the location for our facilities but have failed miserably. PAKISTANI students are earning thousands of dollars and pounds as doctors and engineers in the states, uk and other countries. If you beg to differ, you are clearly insolent and ignorant. BECAUSE for once, you cannot argue because this is a fact. Pakistanis/Muslims( OH SO FASCIST VILLAINS) are heading departments in Apple, Microsoft and other multinationals. if you disagree, then you are clearly a poor, inconsequential individual living in the EU, trying to relate to the people but failing, (hence the bitter attitude- i actually feel sorry for you). you are just another one of the likes of the ‘high school mean girl’ (of your liberal society, i must add) who picks on people, and is in reality just another DUMB blonde. or more appropriately, DUMB HEAD .
MR.AHEM: “the heroes of Arabic militarism-imperialism being enforced as heroes of mankind?”
OH FOR HEAVEN’S SAKE!!!! PAKSITANI/MUSLIM CHILDREN grow up idolizing Einstein, Newton , Abraham Lincoln, and not Abdul Nassir and other Egyptian/ Syrian/Arab leaders/heroes.
ALSO, so basically your problem is with the Arab version of Islam , right? or is ARAB WORLD the only thing that you can talk about since you have done a lot of research on it in hopes of appearing as an intellectual, liberal individual-which you clearly are not. go annoy someone else. let us enjoy this article
MR.AHEM, i wanted to ask you, have you read the book Taro Lord? what do you think of the author’s views?
To expect Ahem to have read a book is proof of the foolishness that Ahem points out in the Pakis – Well dont blame me , I like Paki bashing too!!
khalid,
If pakistani children grow up idolizing Einstein, Newton & Abraham Lincoln-WHY is it that every pakistani I’ve met ( in the age group of 20-30) invariably starts a conversation with ‘Are you muslim?’
WHY are pakistani kids taught to view everyone through the green-tinted glasses of religious discrimination?
If pakistani children grow up idolizing Einstein, Newton & Abraham Lincoln-WHY is it that every pakistani I’ve met ( in the age group of 20-30) invariably starts a conversation with ‘Are you muslim?
this lie is told in rss shakhas.far away from truth.muslims are more close to science than worshippers of 33 crores devtas,where everything is fabricated to fool others and based on fraud.even iran is far ahead of india in many fields of science like nanotechnology,missiles and space programmes.
to riaz
Pakistani “achievements” in nuclear science are not any original work – but stolen from Europe (A Q Khan). That is well known. Rocket technology came from North Korea and China. Pakistanis heading dept. in Microsoft, Apple etc. – but that is happening only to those pakistanis who are not quoting the kuran to take decisions or solve problems in software technology.
What you fail to understand is the crucial question:
“Is islam/kuran involved in the good performance shown by any pakistanis/muslims anywhere?
To this question the answer is a clear “NO”.
Islam and islamic Pakistan have achieved NOTHING, nothing original (may be something borrowed or begged or stolen), in the field of science.
—
(BTW: India too has achieved nothing original – so no need to counter by talking of indian non-achievements)
—
In fact your post proves my point that human beings are all unequal. That was what we were actually discussing. Why aren’t all pakistanis achieving what some are achieving? Why are pakistanis achieving good performance when they study and live in non-islamic societies? Your own answer has now trapped you underneath.
—
to khalid, you wrote:
“PAKSITANI/MUSLIM CHILDREN grow up idolizing Einstein, Newton , Abraham Lincoln, and not Abdul Nassir and other Egyptian/ Syrian/Arab leaders/heroes.”
Pakistani children (mostly) grow up idolizing Mohammad bin Kasim, Aurangzeb, Jinnah, Ilam Din, Osama bin Laden, Mumtaz Qadri etc.
May be in some engish medium or convent schools it is different. But that is the mini-minority that prefers to run away from the islamic paradise of Pakistan.
Islam means to be an underdog and bootlicker of 7th century arab tribalism and fascism. That is a fact proved enthusiastically by the muslims themselves.
PAKISTAN WAS A VERY ECLECTIC THOUGHT. A VERY HIGH THOUGHT. Unfortunately it was too much of a weight on the light-hearted Punjabi (in due fairness). Poor reading of Sociology is the reason for the fiasco.
It can still rock – provided (and it is here some fancy / some romanticism / some idealism IS NEEDED), Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran become one nation. But there is a stumbling block.
The Shia-Sunni divide (hatred) is far deeper than the Hindu-Muslim divide (hatred). So how to bridge that ? Can it be bridged ? The answer is NO. It cannot be bridged.
Then what ? Dis-integration and Further Disintegration. Mayhem. Anarchy. India will eventually build dams and dams and dams and turn Pakistan into a DESERT.
India is punishing Pakistanis (read muslims) for making Pakistan since 1947 to-date. They would have preferred Muslims to be docile like the other minorities of india., for instance the Parsis. They expected THAT behavior from Indian Muslims.. who did not oblige.
I wish the Indian Muslims had obliged the Bania-Marwari Financier of the Congress in 1947. After 65 years.. our position (as a community) would have been far different.. but poor reading of history.. desire for suicide.. martyrdom.. emotion..
Emotion brought us this day.
Drone, why can’t the Shia-Sunni divide be bridged? There are countless instances of Shias marrying Sunnis and likewise — far more than intermarriage between Hindus and Muslims, I think.
to drona
Parsis in India are a not docile community at all. They came to India as refugees from islamic persecution. They got all the chances in India to rise to the top. The muslims were (and still are) always traitors to the idea of a free, self-respecting and non-arabized India. Muslims are happy that turks and arabs robbed and raped India. That is what muslim children are taught even today – may be also secretly. The muslim wants to enforce the arab god and the arab book on India and make India into slave of arabs and thus the muslim wants to earn a place in allah’s perverse heaven. The muslims can fool us for some more time since many non-muslims are still not aware enough.
It is the muslim who is docile – under the boot of the arab or the turk. He prefers to lick the underside of the arab’s or turk’s boot. The muslim is violent-hostile and “brave” only against those who do not wish to accept the imperialism of the arabs and turks. The word islam means submission – that means: mental slavery under arabs and turks.
MR.AHEM, ANSWER the question. what do you think of the book TARO LORD. come one now, don’t avoid it
to TMY
I don’t know this book and don’t have to know it. I don’t think I will have the time to read it. If it is your holy book then be blessed with it and keep it everyday under your pillow when you sleep.
But you can give a me a gist of the book in 50-70 words. That I will read.
to TMY
I don’t know this book and don’t have to know it. I don’t think I will have the time to read it. If it is your holy book then be blessed with it and keep it everyday under your pillow when you sleep.
But you can give a me a gist of the book in 50-70 words. That I will read. Let us see whether you can give the main thesis of the book in such a short summary. That needs intelligence and skill.
to TMY
I don’t know this book and don’t have to know it. I don’t think I will have the time to read it. If it is your holy book then be blessed with it and keep it everyday under your pillow when you sleep.
But you can give me a gist of the book in 50-70 words. That I will read. Let us see whether you can give the main thesis of the book in such a short summary. That needs intelligence and skill.
forget abusers.. Pakistan can be saved.. but it would require a sincere leader. (1) Land Reforms. The Land belongs to the tiller. Abolish Zamindari System here and now (2) Nationalise Schools. All Schools should teach CBSE sylabbus in Sciences and Mathematics. Social Studies/history.. you can teach from your own perspective.. fair enough). INVEST IN SCHOOL EDUCATION. REDUCE THE ARMY BUDGET BY HALF., AND INVEST THE SAME AMOUNT IN EDUCATION. Once Zamindaris are abolished, 75% of the problem of Pakistan would diminish. (2) MILITARY must guard the Country’s frontier – and remain subject to the CIVILIAN GOVERNMENT. No Military Chief must talk to foreigners / without permission from the Civilian Govt. Even if he is Khalid Ibn Waleed., he has to be under the Civilian govt. (3) COMPULSORY MILITARY TRAINING FOR PAKISTANI BOYS AND GIRLS FOR 2 YEARS [one should not do job immediately after graduation. ideally one must rest / reflect /travel for 2 years and learn from the University of Life].
(3) Tax Collection : When there is a sincere leader who is corruption free, Pakistanis themselves would pay taxes. Because they will get SECURITY OF LIFE HONOR AND PROPERTY IN RETURN. Its a long shot. They must reject US Aid (basically rent for bases / transit routes). USA has used Pakistan like a tissue paper. But they preferred the slavery of USA to the slavery of the Marwari-Bania of India. It was a conscious choice. But that was in 1947.
India is not Pakistan’s enemy (though it harbors ill feelings for Pakistan 24×7.. that IS a fact). Pak must invest big-time in SCHOOL EDUCATION (K-12)., ADOPT THE C.B.S.E. SYLABBUS. THEN GO FOR HIGHER EDUCATION. INSTITUTION BUILDING MAY TAKE 100 YEARS.
THERE ARE NO SHORT CUTS. This may sound boring., but this is the way forward. And put all those who oppose education behind bars. or banish them to India.. or Kala Pani.
drona says
“…(India) harbors ill feelings for Pakistan 24×7.. that IS a fact”
Pakistan sent 10 muslim terrorists to Mumbai to kill 166 Indians. Pakistan is sending terrorists the world over to destroy non-muslims.
In Pakistan hindu population has been culled from 20% to less than 2% (during that same time muslim population in India has grown from 6.5% to 18%.) What are pakistani children being taught in their schools about India and hindus and hindu religions?
But drona the super-muslim, the foremost quisling of islam, must lie because islam forces him to lie.
—
If muslims take to the path of honesty then islam will collapse. Drona, the foremost quisling of islam, proves this.
—
If muslims take to the path of non-violence then they will be negating the very purpose of islam.
Ahem : The Koran teaches us to be compassionate even to our enemies (like you)… and even to animals ! So we will bear your abuses with calm. You are driven by hatred. The purpose of your life is hating islam and muslims. I do not hate you. I pity you. Your whole life spent on hatred. What a waste of life.
to drona
The muslim’s life is wasted in trying to defend islamic totalitarianism, backwardness, fascism and arab imperialism.
I don’t hate muslims, I FEAR them and also pity them. I fear their zombie-like nature and their fascist leaders. I fear the muslims’ ability to deceive naive human beings and misuse them. Do you belong to those muslims who lead, or who are led and misused?
—
The kuran pretends to teach compassion and justice qnd peace, but that is only a cover-up for its fascism and imperialism.
Don’t think we (in the 21st century) are such idiots that we will be fooled by sweet words in the kuran and by muslim liberals. Every nice sentence in the kuran merely acts to hide the islamofascism that is inherent in the kuran. You muslims are not allowed to develop the intelligence and the honesty to recognize this.
–
The developments in islam-based societies prove my analysis and my fears to be correct. I am not swayed by propaganda-makers of islam.
You muslims commit genocides on non-muslims over 1400 years and then pretend to be innocent and noble-minded.
shame on hindus ahem and rajtoo,
Aryan’s sexual immorality and matrimonial relationship will shock every one of their descendents. In the Rigveda there is an episode related to Yama and Yami brother and sister. Yami the sister invites her brother Yama to cohabit with her and becomes angry when he refuses to do so. Sister marrying brother: Also Brahma our creator had three sons and a daughter. His own son Daksha marries his sister. The daughter born of this marriage between brother and sister were married to Kashyapa the son of Marichi the son of Brahamaand some to Dharma third son of Brahama, Father marrying daughter: Vashista married his own daughter Shatrupa when She came of age , Manu married his own daughter Jhanavi and surya married his own daughter Usha. Polyandry: There was polyandry of not ordinary type, When Kinsmen cohabited with one women. Dhahaprachetani and his son Soma cohabited with Marisha the daughter of Soma. Grand Father marrying Granddaughter: Daksha gave his daughter in marriage to his father Brahama and from this marriage came the famous Narada. Dauhitra gave his 27 daughters to the father Soma for cohabitation and procreation. Rishis used to perform certain Religious rites called Vamdevya Vrata and the place where it is performed called Indriya Bhumi. If any women came there expressed desire to have sex with Rishi then it is done openly. Classical examples are Sage Parasara having sex openly with Satyavathi and Dirghatapa. This custom is very common and the women involved were called Ayonija. Sita and Draupadi were Ayonija. In fact at a later date religious injunctions were issued to stop such customs. Renting out women for a time: This was also prevalent the king Yayati gave his daughter Madhavi to his Guru Galav. Galav after completing his job rented out Madhavi to three kings each for a period. There after he gave her in marriage to Viswamithra and remained with him until a son was born to her. Thereafter Galav took away the girl and gave her back to Yayati. Allowing Procreation by the best among men: Aryans allowed the practice of allowing their women to have copulation with any one of the class of Devas in the interst of good breeding. The custom prevailed so extensively that Devas came to regard prelibation as matter of right and no Aryan women is allowed to marry unless the prelibation right had been redeemed and the women were released from control of devas . The Sapthapadi performed in all Hindu marriages is considered essential ceremony i.e. walking with groom seven steps. The answer is Devas. If they were dissatisfied with compensation, could claim woman before the seventh step. The right of Devas ceases after the seventh step. Chastity for Maiden: No rule existed and anybody can have fun without contracting marriage and had children. Kunti had children from different men before she was married to Pando. MatsyaGandha had Sex with sage Parasara before she was married to Shanatanu
Dronacharya,
If ‘The Koran teaches us to be compassionate even to our enemies (like you)’…why does someone wishing to opt out of Islam immeidately become -’wajib-ul-qatl’? What am I missing out on? Please enlighten me.
Ranjeet : Let me put it this way. There is no force or compulsion in matters of faith. La Iqraha Fid-deen., and Wa deenakum Wal Ya Deen., are cardinal principles of Islam (for all time). Now let me come and address your question directly : Why does someone wishing to “opt out” of Islam., become Wajib-Al-Qatl ? There is no force for XYZ to accept Islam. First read, halt, ponder, reflect., and IF you deem fit., join Islam. Islam doesnt require anything from man in joining its community. Nor does it provide the lollipop of reservations in Medical/Engg/ or a quota in Jobs (to retain the present sheep strategy., otherwise withdraw these., and Maya will become Mary in 24 hours). What it does underline is SERIOUSNESS. Do not play with faith. Take 20 years, and reflect., and IF you like it., join it… but do not join it… to mess up … and leave as you like. It is about commitment. There is no one-night stand., or open-ended relationship in matters of FAITH. It is a strong commitment…. so anyone who wishes to join is welcome, but only after he/she REFLECTS very deeply. IF it appeals to his/her soul., he should turn a muslim. Once a muslim., do not turn your back again. It is not a revolving door. It is in the spirit of commitment… otherwise it would become Hansi-Mazaaq. Today Muslim, tomorrow Christian, the day after Hindu, the next day Buddhist, the very next Confucius-ism/Taoism, the day next Judaism… So each religion is FROM God / Allah – and represents a facet. Islam is the FINAL edition that supercedes the earlier editions. It is FOR all mankind. It is not for Muslims-only. It is FROM God to all his creatures. The message has arrived. It is for you now., to reflect upon it. If you like it fine., if you do not like it., also fine. NO COMPULSION. But at the same time, there is NO REVOLVING DOOR. It is not to be taken easy. Its not a tee-shirt., or shorts you change at whim ! I hope i made my point…
Dronacharya,
So what you’re basically saying is man should surrender his free will when he signs up to the doctrine of Islam? He loses the freedom to exercise his free-will?
If a man converts to a religion by free will-he should be able to reject it by the SAME FREE WILL.
If the almighty God above ( who has himself granted man his free will ) is offended and deems it worthy, he should HIMSELF strike down anyone who dares to reject the path prescribed by him. What twisted logic gives OTHER human beings the right to judge someone who wants to turn dis-believer? What gives OTHERS the right to take lives? What is this insecurity about ? If this is NOT insecurity, then what is it?
IMO-The approach you tkae to justify the ‘path-of-no-return’ clearly harks back to medieval times, my friend. And no, comparing religions to T-shirts and shorts does NOT make your argument sound modern / pragmatic / rational.
to drona
You have just described how arrogant fascism functions in the form of islam. What you have written are just grand declarations which islam makes, but in reality has developed several subtle methods to make islam into a prison. It also reveals that the very god-concept of islam is fascistic.
How revealing your post is.
If I need any proof of islam being a fascist mental prison then your post provides this proof.
I am sure you were elated as you wrote your post thinking “what a grand islam-glorifying argument I am making!”
But in reality you just ended up revealing islam’s inherent arrogant and conceited fascism.
I know an 80+ year old “muslim” who says that he feels neaer to hindus. He was a zealous muslism when he was 20 years old and migrated to Pakistan from Bihar. He was all full of hope about Pakistan and islam and even became an islamic religious scholar and imam. But as he grew older he got sick with islam and Pakistan and emigrated to the west. Today he presents views which are nearer to hindu religions and hindu metaphysics. As a muslim grows older islam becomes for him a sick ideology. Another older pakistani said clearly to me that islam is a totalitarian ideology but unfortunately he cannot escape from it.
Ahem is not worth answering. Infact i have stopped reading his post at all. Let him enjoy his SADISM.
Ranjeet : The topic you have touched is called “Jabr-o-Qadr”. In surrending your will… at the feet of God / Allah… you gain ETERNAL FREEDOM. If you surrender.. bend.. prostrate before THIS door.. you gain the freedom of bowing/surrendering/prostrating before any other person / door. THAT is the concept. Surrendering your will to God.. AND IN THAT ENSLAVEMENT YOU FIND THE ULTIMATE FREEDOM.
Towards God is the Journey (Quran).. it is a limitless journey. It encourages probity, research, quest for knowledge.. innovation… and what not. Muslims became fossilized when they gave up SCHOLARSHIP and FREE THINKING..(while keeping the will surrendered to God / Allah).. Free Thinking is OKAY.. and welcomed.. but while keeping the WILL at the Feet of God. I hope you grasped the nuance of it.
Allah’s will is de facto nothing but the will of the mullah or the imam or the caliph or the amir ul mominin or pir or supposed scholar of arabic. Allah remains just a fake to manipulate the gullible (like drona). It is just fascists talking in allah’s name and misleading and misusing human beings.
Islam means submission under those who claim to speak allah’s will. This is the sure path into fascism and mental slavery.
Submission is not compatible with : seeking knowledge or honesty or free thinking.
Muslims are experts at self-deceit and deceit, and unfortunately some non-muslims fall into their trap.
Dronacharya,
No. I fail to understand How I can get ‘eternal freedom’ by surrendering my free-will. and-’In that enslavement-I will find ultimate freedom?’ That makes no sense at all.
You say-towards god is the journey(Quran). It encourages research, quest for knowledge, innovation..and what not? Please explain how Islam or ANY religious doctrine reconciles itself any of the boons/banes of modern technology or with any of the singular tenets of modern science like Darwin’s Theory of Evolution.
I have a close friend whose abbu is a muezzin at the local mosque. The pious man is strict enough to not have a TV, music system or a computer at home. Where is the dis-connect? If I were to meet him again, what could I say to him? Please advice.
YOU WILL UNDERSTAND.. if you so wish. BTW, i would like you to read : “Quest for the Red Sulphur” – The Life of Ibn Arabi by Claude Addas (it is just 350 pages).
As long as there is hatred in the heart.. nothing will work. And comically people like “Ahem” hate without reason. They have no reason for their hatred except prejudice.. which is pathetic.. and deserves our deepest sympathy..
to drona
Now you start pretending to be the loving christ on the PTH. You dismiss my analysis as prejudice. Just read what is taught to muslim children about history and non-islamic religions. Just look how much genocide and territorial aggression and occupation muslims have carried out on non-muslims in the past 1400 years. So who is prejudiced?
Pretenders like a you are a major reason why islam is fascistic and will continue to be fascistic.
There may be some non-muslims are who are fooled by sweet words emanating from muslims. I am not a dumbhead that you can do that to me.
Those who have understood kuran and islam intelligently and with wisdom have recognized that they lead to fascism and a mental imprisonment.
Fascism means writing and teaching a history-narrative to suit the needs of one’s own totalitarian and imperialist goals. Can kuran and muslims claim that they are not doing it?
Drona,
I asked you some very simple questions. One liners. Why should I have to read an enitre book to understand how ‘eternal-freedom’ can be achieved by surrendering my free-will to quit a religion a day after joining it?
What if I was a (concerned)illiterate who wanted to convert?
And how is the quest for knowledge , innovation , tolerance and every other free-world /utopian value that u attribute to the Quran reconcile with issues like homosexuality or birth control?