Pak Tea House » Uncategorized » The Real Issue Is Not the Controversial Islamic Laws
The Real Issue Is Not the Controversial Islamic Laws
Raza Habib Raja
Right now, the news of a Christian young girl (merely 11 years old) being arrested in Pakistan for desecrating Holy Quran is making headlines (http://tribune.com.pk/story/423815/11-year-old-christian-girl-accused-of-blasphemy/). The liberal segment ( increasingly just restricted to facebook and english print media) is expressing outrage and needless to say that its voice is hardly reaching to segments which really matter. What is most regrettable is the overall virtual absence of large scale condemnation despite the fact that Pakistan’s already tarnished reputation has touched new lows with this news.
In that small liberal segment, actually a fringe in our society, the blasphemy law is once again under criticism with calls to repeal it. I would like to point out to all those that they are just targeting a symbolic thing. Culprit is the not the law. Of course law should be repealed, but repealing alone will never solve the issue. For that matter no one has actually been executed after even being convicted. Let’s not forget even if the law was not in existence, people would have simply killed the girl despite her very young age.
In fact in blasphemy cases, people have been even killed in the jail when their cases were in progress. Repealing the law will only remove a symbol of religion’s infusion with state; it will by no stretch of imagination prevent people from becoming violent. For that matter repealing it without addressing the real issue will cause people to become even more bigoted than they are now. In fact the law cannot be repealed through democratic ways in the first place until the major issue is tackled. Lets not forget that laws, even if imposed through dictatorial ordinances can only be repealed through legislature. No party has the guts to do it and one of the main reason is that most of ordinary Pakistanis want these laws. The inhuman laws are the reflection of general Pakistani will and also an unfortunate symbol of extreme reverence of religion. Assuming that even privately a sizeable number thinks that these laws are inhuman, they are completely impotent due to extreme reverence of religion and their inablity to bring any counter argument to conservative religious scholars and Mullahs.
The real issue is NOT the laws but general religious bigotry which is rampant in the society which in turn emanates from the mindset and the overall cultural set up of Pakistan. This cultural set up gives religion extreme reverence and cultivates an identity based on it, which is extraordinarily sensitive on all the religous matters. This reverence of religion and the resulting bigotry is primarily cultural though has state as its major patron. The issue is not restricted to the fusion of religion with state. State is one of the patrons of religion, but is not the sole determinant of its reverence.
The role of religion, particularly the sensitivity arising from it is chiefly coming from our childhood training during which religion is presented as something extremely venerable. A culture of not questioning it is imposed first at home and then later at the schools. The fusion of reverence along with its unquestionable status, cultivates a violent prone and bigotry ridden mindset. It cultivates an atmosphere where a mob can actually get away with extremely violent acts in the name of religion. People even if they do not actually feel the anger, can still get violent to vent out their gutter instincts under the guise of religious honour knowing fully well that no one will be able to stop them. In fact we know that several times Police became a silent spectator when the mob was imposing their “justice” on the victims. What happened at Gojra is still fresh in our memories. Police and the district administration actually became a de facto accomplice.
We cannot address the issue unless we are able to actually desensitize people from religion. And that cannot be done without cultivating a culture where religion can be critically discussed. Unless and until the educated of this country show collective courage and are ready to do that, frankly nothing can change. Moreover, change in this case has to take top down approach. Frankly the elite and the affluent middleclass have to play a role. The political elite which have historically shown impotence and tried to manipulate religious sensitivity to their advantage, have to muster up the courage and promote liberal discourse on the role of religion in the public sphere. Only from such discourse can a change in educational curriculum can take place which in time will promote a culture of tolerance.
Moreover, in Pakistan unlike Turkey, secularism and for that matter even religious tolerance cannot come from either barrel of a gun or other establishment institutions. This is because army in Pakistan has evolved to use Islam as a gluing force within its ranks. A powerful army in Turkey may be the guardian of secularism but this is not going to be the case in Pakistan. The best you can hope is that since army is still not radicalized and uses Islam only for strategic purposes (except during Zia’s time), it will not move in to thwart a critical discourse on religion. Our only hope remains democracy.
Political leaders and parties do not merely reflect public opinion but they are also a medium to engage and communicate with masses.It is important that those who think of themselves as liberals should be engaging the political parties including moderately conservative parties like PML N. Even religious parties should be engaged.
Leaders of liberal parties like PPP have to show the courage. They have the sway over the masses and moreover I think they have to rectify their historical blunders such as 1973 constitution and second amendment. Despite its mistakes, PPP along with other liberal parties remains the only hope. So leaders of PPP, ANP and MQM, all those who claim to be liberal, please come forward and prove your credentials.
Presdent Zardari deserves appreciation for publicly taking a notice of this incidence. But it will take much more than that. The discussion needs to be taken to the mainstream. It is a very long road ahead but at least we have to make a start.
Filed under: Uncategorized · Tags: bigotry, issue, Pakistan, religious
323 Responses to "The Real Issue Is Not the Controversial Islamic Laws"
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pp81, on one hand you claim to be a kashmiri pundit on another you seem like a Paki in sheep’s clothing. Dude be honest.
REX….Do you know India’s so-called “independence day” was started on an inauspicious day (the country’s future is judged by only astrologers and not thinkers and scholars) and from then onwards we have been slipping and slipping.
SUB-STANDARD UNIVERSITIES
Out of the 190 countries or so as members of the United Nations, India’s rank is 134. And it is going down. But our “India shining walas” keep it well hidden.
you just can not understand the chaotic situation in our education field. Our universities are producing sub-standard doctors, engineers, lawyers and other professionals. What a shame.
Even after 65 years of “independence” our literacy rate (in Indian languages) is not even 30%. English knowing population is not even 3%. Over 70% illiterate.
And this 3% people are 90% upper castes and enemies of the 85% of the population. And it is these people who are attacking churches and nuns. How can India progress?
Kerala is an exception to this rule. In Karnataka, no school is functioning in villages.
MOTHER TONGUE MANIA
But in Bangalore, all upper castes, meaning the rich, are going to English-medium schools and jumping forward. But our people are working as clerks and peons, brainwashed by the Brahmin-created “mother tongue mania”.
Akb, you seem like a born again islamist. I like that. Please keep posting. It makes Ahem, sachbol et al sound positively brilliant. BTW could you spare some time for lessons to Tajinder. He is still not sure whether islam is any good or not.
pp81,
what is there to know about the Turks! Let’s see! Do you know about the Armenian genocide! The Ottomans killed 1 to 1.5 million Armenians. They killed all the able bodied men in cold blood and sent all the rest packing out of Turkey! Is that what you want me to know?
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Or are you talking about Kemal Ataturk’s putsch! He basically shoved a whole danda up the gaand of Mullahs, and only after 80 odd years were they able to stand up! It was Ataturk who took Turkey into modernity and only then when he finished off Islam from public life. In Istanbul you have booze and clubs and free girls! In Antalya you have beaches with no holds!
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Now that the Mullahs are again awakened in Turkey, things would turn back to!
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What do you want to know about Central Asia? The Kazakhs were Islamized last, and many of the Muslims there were turned into Soviet citizens with the full force of the danda! Without the danda, things revert back. Even today, you have secular dictators running the show there.
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It is language of danda up the gaand of Mullahs and other Momeen that Muslims understand. Any other language is gibberish!
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I have had plenty of friends, from both Turkey and Central Asia.
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The only thing I know is that a big long danda up the ass of Pakis is the only thing that can make them act as homo sapiens, and that too is only as long as the danda stays there! After the intestinal acids eat into the danda, you need a fresh danda to replace it!
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However in Pakistan there were never any Kemal Ataturks! All Paki leaders, both with and without beards, were pure Islamic chauvinists and have always encouraged Islamism! They were all cowards and gave in to Islam!
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So what is it that you want me to know about Turkey, Central Asia and Pakistan?
My faith is my buisness alone but my behaviour with others is the buisness of others as well. PTH definitly does not deserve to receive people from the gutter. AKB is the one from gutter, the lowest level among humans, RHR should address such people but before he does this he needs to undrstand the stregnth of Islam and not start comparing the religion of Islam as is practiced in Saudi Arabia, Turkey or Egypt.
None of the muslim countries have yet been able to implement Quraanic guidlines fully. Most are atleast trying, Pakistan is a unique one which on account of there love hate relationship with Indian hindus and their ancestoral association with hinduism are somewhat paralised. They must wait till the Aufklarung now undergoing in Arabian lands which has been the hub of Islamic faith. In the meantime the instant solution for Pakistan is to be overrun by the talibanization process so that they must all be subjected to learn about the beginning of Islam.
Tajender, no I do not know about the chaotic conditions in India other than that one reads in the Press and about medical professionals who are desperately trying to implement the European standards of education so that Indian medical doctors qualifications atleast match those of the UK. I can also guess that it must be extremely difficult for the Indian political leadership to organise and implement a system of Govt. which is efficient in all respect for a population of such a magnitude, specially after being under occupation for two centries. They must end their forced occupation of Kashmiri muslims and match the the progress of the Chinese, for they like it or not they are the future powers as slowly but definitely the Imperial USA succumbs on account of poor health and old age.
Rex Minor
PS
Those who question my judgement should also know that I have the ability to recognise the enlightened one from imposters. Neither Tajender nor Kaalchakra fall in the category of imposters. They have something special which most political leadership of the world do not h
The Pakistani population (and most Muslim populations) have gone thru a kind of Rottweiler mutation, perhaps due to endemic inbreeding. They will viciously attack anything that’s critical of their faith. This was an elegant mechanism devised by the inventors of Islam to ensure that the prisoners guard each other, thus creating the perfect prison (Islam). The huge religious exhibitionism among all Islamic cults is a manifestation of this syndrome. Can’t question religion from inside or outside and apostasy is death, so the prisoner can’t escape.
Smart rulers in Islamic countries have always created one piece of fair game to be demonized and murdered to satisfy the sadistic bloodthirsty Rottweiler gene in their populations. Kurds in Iraq, Ahmedis in Pakistan etc. They learned well from Hitler who also gave his people the jews.
Pakistani rulers have been the smartest by giving a horn of plenty to satisfy the bloodlust of the rottweiler masses. Blasphemers… so the Rottweiler masses go Ahmedi, Hindu Christian, Shia…. at some point the Rottweiler will start eating his siblings and pieces of its own body.
That’s the future of this gene damaged cult
Magus
This is ridiculous – if genuinely meant. There is nothing ‘wrong’ or ‘right’ about Pakistani genes. The advantage or if you prefer, disadvantage, that Pakistan has is that as in Saudi Arabia Islam as a principle for living is structurally unchallenged. It has no countervailing force, no generally accepted countervailing basis of human legitimation. We may see that as a good thing for a bad thing since that is a purely personal human judgement which may not mean much to any body else.
Kaal,
I agree with you whole heartedly. The Islam as practiced in Pakistan are what the Pakis want. I kinda also agree with Rex. The next stage in the evolution of the local religious practices is adopting what the Taliban preach and practice. IMHO, it is inevitable and I do not see anything wrong with it. At least one good aspect will be that Pakiland will complete its march to the stone age. If thats what the people want then what is wrong with it? All that the Pakis need now is a Caliph to accelerate the transition.
In Magus foul rhetoric the word Rottweiler is very significant. Most patients who eventualy land in the Psychiatric clinics at least in Germany, all of them see ‘Rottweiler’ and the doctors are unable to find out wheather it is the dog or the city which frightens them to the extent of disturbing their equiliberium. Poor Magnus or Magus, let us pray that AKB does not pounce on him while Kaalchakra is trying to calm the modern Darwin with DNA expertise.
Rex Minor
Rez, is your objection to use of Rottweiler? Would you felt better if Doberman was used? OR are you objecting to the whole analogy?
Kaal: of course it is meant. Genes do deteriorate if if there is a lot of inbreeding. See the number of cases of microcephalic kids in Pakistan (anecdotal observation) and the level of genetic defects in Pakistani descent residents in UK which is almost 14 times the population average (empirical data, NHS). And yes, I am expressing a personal opinion which may not mean anything to others.
Rex: you are a cute little girl, i am glad I managed to persuade you to my argument (rhetoric: the art of persuasive speaking or writing). So what are you trying to say about what I wrote? Btw, are you always confused or have you been smoking the sacred Taliban blessed good stuff from Afghanistan ?
Romain,
I was serious about the word Rottweiler which patients refer to. I agree with Kaalchakra terminology of ‘ridiculas’. It is not proper to misuse the genetic reasons and then at the same time refer to Hitler who condemned jews and so did the total Europe, giving the reasons of inbreeding and genes. Magus must learn to think through and use the examples if he must which can at least withstand for some duration. We are very much advanced today in molecular biology and are in a position to accurately provide the DNA or Gene mix of every human on earth. We do not have as yet the new Hitler to explore this avenue. People are going to experience surprises; is the mix of improper Genes is better than the mix of same Genes, it is not yet certain? Only two to three families are involved in the entire population of Iceland.
Here is a provocative question? Does the DNA mix of a Negro with a white performs better in the White House? We have two wars and drones; go the Mormon way and we have sharia with six wives being allowed at the federal level. This is the Mormon way. Mr Obama on the other hand has definitely the genes of his muslim father, and he is all out against the world muslims. As you said in your earlier post, erhaps the best way for Pakistan is have a Caliph with muslim genes so that he can clear out the mess by public hangings, a century old preventive method used by barbarians and savages before Islam was introduced to restrict and cease inhuman practices. By the way Rottweiler usualy dos not mutilate its own siblings. They do attack their owners, who are cruel and do not behave like an Alpha animal.
Rex Minor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfyoeZlJOX4&feature=related
Magus,
You are the kind who has been paralised by remaining under occupation and beleve even today what your former colonialists tell you. Jews were accused for inbreeding and you accuse Pakistani descent families in the UK and we in Germany apart from Jews, for your info, accuse all those with immigration backgrounds including Indian hindus and sikhs for inbreeding. We do not differentiate among the people among the those with immigration background. You guys are all the same with inferior and weak genes. Your performance is equated with Genes!
Kiff is not yet allowed in Germany but I know many go to India for a two to three weeks kiff vacation.
Rex Minor
PS
Incidently, during the Taliban rule kiff was eliminated, and this could not be tolerated by the Amis, who receive 80 percent of their needs from Afghanistan. This is one reason and support for the Taliban return so that the sick population can then be deported to India and Pakistan, where this is freely available on so called holy shrines.
The Ottomans killed 1 to 1.5 million Armenians………………………….RAJTOO
killing of armenian was planned and perpetuated by turkish zoinists,also called YOUNG TURKS.armenians were first christian, commited lot of atrcities on jews.this was their revenge.turkish muslims might have been used in this game.MULIM KILLING IN INDIA IS PLANNED BY HINDU ZOINISTS(RSS),DALITS AND BACKWARDS ARE USED AS FOOT SOLDIERS.looting of muslim property and rape of their women is gift they get in return.
The very title of the article leads to a typicallly islamic useless and fake debate.
It is the islamic laws that are damaging mankind today, firstly in islam-dominated lands and from thence all over the world. Whoever thinks laws conceived in 7th century Arabia can manage the whole world of 21st century is a nut case. Muslim stupidity is accompanied by piety. The two worsen each other. When muslims debate then the stupidity and the piety try to show off competitively with one another.
Rex:
“They must end their forced occupation of Kashmiri muslims and match the the progress of the Chinese…”
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In your vast reading have you by any chance come across anything about a place called Tibet or Xinjiang?
Thank you.
Tajender,
My advice to muslims would be not to build castles in the sand. American muslims should stop building mosques or Islamic centres in the USA.
The pacific shall not remain pacific for ever and soon it is going to join the atlantic, as soon as the Evil takes control in more than ninety percent of the land. Your quoted video talks about 20 odd percent at percent.
Rex Minor
He basically shoved a whole danda up the gaand of Mullahs, and only after 80 odd years were they able to stand…………..
rajtoo,
now turks follow othman not atta turk.islam is back with bang.european racialism,narrowmindedness have taken them back in the fold of islam.
The only thing I know is that a big long danda up the ass of Pakis….
rajtoo.before arrival of zoinists in in afghan and pakistan,per capita income of pakistan was more than india.let america leave the area things will change draetically.mullahs has very little on muslims in muslim societies.
a good hindu has to be good slave of brhmn.brhmn work as dallal between man and bhagwan.islam has no dallal……………………….RAJTOO U SAY,
However in Pakistan there were never any Kemal Ataturks! All Paki leaders, both with and without beards, were pure Islamic chauvinists and have always encouraged Islamism.
ISLAM IS ON RISE IN TURKEY AND OTHER CENTRAL ASIAN COUNTRIES.including russian colonies of chechnya and dagestan.
rajtoo,dubai beeches are equally hot.without attaturk.indonesia and malaysia situation is same.importance of mullahs is because of occupation,not because of their place in muslim societies.
islam is the best ideology it will flourish,with or without mullahs.
RAJTOO BY ABUSINNG MULLAHS FOR NOTHING U ARE SHOWING UR CHEAPNESS.
My advice to muslims would be not to build castles in the sand
EVERY PALACE PROVIDE EMPLOYMENT TO 200-300 DESTITUTES FROM INDIA PAKISTAN OR NEPAL.thousands of poors get jobs in contruction process of these palaces.at the end it goesin the hands of pulic,like in iraq……………you also say that,
American muslims should stop building mosques or Islamic centres in the USA.
you are right but what is alternate.
Mythbuster,
The straight answer is NO! Chinese are a civilisation whereas Indians are not! The civilisations do not usualy have borders; the European civilisation has just about manged to bring down the dividing lines and during my vactions I travelled freely through four countries on road without any restrictions and control or exchange of currency needs. Look at the border towns of China and we witness several Nations of different ethnic origins, all part of the chinese civilisation. India is still guided by ancient Hindu faith which regards every other Nation as the enemy and therefore the target for a violent control. Kashmir is the naked example for the world to look at.
If India wants to exist as one unit then it must overcome the whims of domination by military means. If the Germans can do it then I am sure you can as well. But your faith must be reformed to reflect the 1st century. Ashoka abondoned it and todays Indians could as well. There is no better time or other reason then now to abondon the policy of hate towards other humans. You know fully well that we the Germans have to pay for the rest of Europe from Greece to spain Italy and eventualy France. This is painful but we must do it for our own survival and unity of Europe as a civilisation, not the Hitler way which also wanted the military and political control. India must put an end to political control with military power, otherwise its democratic status in the UNO shal be nullified sooner than later. The theatrical show at the Pakistan border is shabby, India must put an end to it. Let Pakistanis masquerade alone. They are enugh for childrens amusement.
I have no personal motives just a sincere and honest opinion. India with a large population of muslims should be invited to Islamic conferences, if takes off the yoke of military occupation of a large muslim majority land.
Rex Minor
tajender should be put in mental asylum where only rex should be allowed to visit him and kiss his shoes.
PS
read 21st century instead of 1st century . sorry for the spells.
Rex:
)
You never fail to amuse.
China is a civilization and can take over Muslim lands; please don’t ask any questions.
Good; then why do you have this itch about US and NATO in Afghanistan?
Isn’t it also an extention of your European Civilization?
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(To me it sounds more like a self deluding argument that since I can sit in Germany and exploit its liberal laws I will complain about the NATO but since the PLA will beat the shit out of my brethren in Xiangjiang, if they hear a whsper, lets not talk about it.
What ever you say.
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“India is still guided by ancient Hindu faith which regards every other Nation as the enemy and therefore the target for a violent control….”
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Very nice.
Aren’t we projecting our own beliefs here big time; are we?
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Can you give me examples where the Hindu faith says that?
Where it ‘violently attacked another nations’….
Tajender,
There are no TWO WAYs to confront the evil. The only way is to resist and ignore. The guy in the video is a maverick and there are many. Like the former chancellor of Germany once said that he was raised as a christian and blamed the priests and bishops for not teling him about Islam.He learnt about Islam on an evening in the siling boat from Anwar Sadat. Why blame the political or religious leaders, everyone has the possibility of learning about Islam. Was it not the Saladin, the kiurdish leader of Egypt and Damascus, who defeated the crusaders. And was it not King Richard who murdered more than three thousands handcuffed muslim prisoners. It was saladin who brought no harm to the christian residents of Jerusalem.
Rex Minor
Rex:
“we the Germans…”
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You have to keep your jokes down a bit; I almost spilled my coffee all over the keyboard.
REX, first things first you must smoke a bit less. Now let me address your rambling rant. My proposition is that part of the reason for the bloodthirsty mob your country has become is genetic mutation due to rampant inbreeding (look in the mirror). Second part of the reason is vehement religious exhibitionism. Every one wants to protect the izzat of the nabi and Allah by some bloodletting, for every one killing there is someone in the queue wanting to beat the last guy’s score. This combined by the ignition provided by the inbred mutants is a potent combination. So voila you have today’s land of the pure
Now jews and hitler, How different was the treatment of Jews from the treatment of current day ahmedis in Pakistan? You don’t want them to ‘act like Muslims’ so you throw them out of your schools, don’t trade with them, dig up their corpses, kill them in their mosques, break their tombstones and make every one of your citizens curse them in their passport apps etc. institutionalised hate, that’s abnormal in the civilised world. You are an 18 crore Gestapo by masquerading as a country.
Good luck with your caliph (you do have masochistic tendencies, don’t you?) he will die of exhaustion hanging people…. But who will he hang? For which crime?
TAJENDAR: you seem to have a strong subliminal urge to exit out of your Islamic prison, Tajuddin. And stop typing in caps, it is a sure sign on genetic mutation of the Islamic type
TRex: please do name this chancellor, I wonder why didn’t he revert to Islam in adulthood after the da’wah of Saadat. Btw, Saadat was not a practicing Muslim. But that is the beauty of Islam that even non practitioners invite the jaahils to share the beauty of Islam. Waah!
Mythbuster,
you are a hopeless case. you have never accepted that you are addressing a white German resident who happens to be a muslim. And by the way Germany does not have any more liberal laws than that of France, Italy or UK. This is a conservative dominated country and I am a very conservative individual with lots of tolerence towards others, but in no way compared to liberals of the land. Freedom and the integrity of the individuals is not violable in this land and are imbedded in the constitution.
And now you want support of Indian occupation of Kashmir from other occupiers. And then you want certification of Hindu faith from a non hindu. You are just a myth. No one can influence the destiny of India and Pakistan. you guys do in accordance to your avatars anyway. I shall no longer react to your cunning questions for which you already have set standards answers. You are oonly interested in knowing my views for your records.
Rex Minor
“And now you want support of Indian occupation of Kashmir from other occupiers…”
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Rex:
No I don’t. Kashmir, Afghanistan is fair game.
I only want to demonstrate the hipocracy and utter deference to China and Chinese by you apologists types….
Rex Minor is a liar. He is a Khan from Germany.
AKB
Sach, Truth is always bitter . The genocide of Banu Quraiza tribe is the pride of islam. All the islamic sources tell us the children were separated by checking the growth of pubic hairs. Haqiqat Rai was barely 15 when he was killed by islamic piousness right here in Lahore. Guru Gobind Singh’s young sons age 9 and 7 were bricked alive by Muhammadans in Sirhind, Now you guys have 11 year old Christian child imprisoned . Her fate is sealed as There is hardly a chance that she will come out alive. Her whole family has fled fearing Muhammadan Mob. The poor child girl is alone, surrounded by Muhammadan for whom she is just a commodity, maal e ghanimat now.
Honest AKB, look into your own self and ask the question why this pattern , sunna of killing children.
RHR’s humanity is making him ask the same question but majority Musalmans seem to be waiting for the opportunity to condemn and overwhelm h this little girl with traditional, historical Islamic Mercy.
rex wants to be called a white German.
No white German writes english the way rex does.
No white German bootlicks Pakistan, China or arabs.
No white German ridicules India and indians.
rex does not have the intelligence even to lie cleverly. Even his lies are ridiculous, pathetic and inconhsistent and they clearly show a typical bootlicker mentality.
“By the way Rottweiler usualy dos not mutilate its own siblings. They do attack their owners, who are cruel and do not behave like an Alpha animal.”
Magus,you stupid oaf, Rottweilers are definitely better off than the Pakis.
At least they dont kill their own young
Kaffir Germany must have good , generous welfare system to attract such great Islamic talent.Only AKB is 400% honest Abdul. One of these days human Reason will win over his Beliefs and actually see the truth rising inside .
Tajindar= Tajuddin
Rex= xKhan
Taqaiyya?
Rex, I have some cartoons my friends have enjoyed a lot. Want to see?
Guys, enuf of Paki bashing. The fun and games are over and back to serious business. There was a chappie called Kasuri on Times Now last night (US time) who called Mahroof (IM) a complex muslim who was more hindu than muslim.
That got me thinking. RHR is dot on (when is he not) There is mindset problem in Pakistan that is begining to affect even the Pakistani talking heads. This has some very serious potential problems for India and Indians as well.
If Pakistan , with all of its morosity and extreme fundamentalism falls apart, where do you think the Pakistanis are going to go?
The rich afghans just hopped across Pakistan and came to India. Ok, rich Pakistanis can go to Dubai. Maybe a handful. But where will the majority go? Just like the econimic refugees from Bangladesh, they will just slip across the border and mingle in.
This I believe is the current thinking in the GOI circles and has them panicked. That is why the tremendous SOPS being offered to Pakis and treating them with Kid gloves.
I believe that everybody is scared shitless of Jinnah’s dream coming apart completely rather than just at the seams. That is why US is doing its best with a pull-push approach. The Chinese are sitting back and letting US do it. The Russians are doing via the Indians and the Indians (GOI) are trying every trick in the book to help.
RHR, Raza Rumi, YLH etc are smart individuals who are fighting the battle in the best way they know how. Like Jinnah, they will make mistakes, Perhaps unlike Jinnah, they can see past their nose. One can only hope.
To be called an Indian is the lowest denomination that anglo saxons have given to the Natives. You seem to accept it even after gaining independence. In your history you have been cruel to women and today you sterilise them to control population. In Germany the slogan is kinder stadt Inder, to avoid qualified Indians entry into Germany. Many Indians, mostly sikh though have entered after their massacre at the hands of Indira Gandhi, who was of noble brahmin hindu faith and someone asked me a question, where does in Hinduism encourages violence against others. The same charlie reminded me of my kids and reckons that I am an Asian non white bod living at the mercy of the State. He should know that in Germany people are born with golden hands and the IQ level, one of the highest in the world. Every child is required to learn atleast two languages inschool and English is one of them. I speak and write several languages including Latin. My english is poor since it is the inferior of all but I have improved a lot on PTH. More than 25 percent of todays Americans are of German descent as well. Every fortnightly a documentary film is put on the German screen, namely ZDF which tells us about your chaotic culture and starving and poor folks who live in slavery conditions, the only country in the world today which officialy practices it and your labour minister accepts it but calls them bonded labour, complete families with women and children, and then some of you have the bloody cheek to point fingers towards Pakistan and China.
There is saying in Germany to clean up the mess infront of your own home before you address others about their mess. Only two muslim States have to undertake sanctions against the industrial Nations and the whole world will come to stand still today . Yes this is what Helmut Schmidt, the former chancellor said about the clash of civilisations, Islamic civilisation verses the western civilisation. He was the one who also said that it was the church Bishops duty to inform the congregation about Islam. Rottweiler was the right signal to allert me that some of you are already in the first stage of going on a lonely path with dogs. AKB is rude and at times not civil but he is definitely not mad, whereas some of you must consult the Psychologist for the nightmares you have about others. And above all teach your children not to lie, treat them as jews or christians if this is the only way to tell them that lying is forbidden by God, even if your hindu God did not order you to follow. Living in delusion and with lies about your past and present unconcerned about the environment of the land where a complete Nation is living in a prison guarded by those who are scattered today as asylum residents themselves.
Rex Minor
Rex buddy,
the reference to dogs was due to the fact that they do not bite the hand that feeds them.
Having lived in Germany, i know how well they treat the Turks and we all know what your Chancellor has to say about assimilation of Muslims.
But the key to your post was this
“He should know that in Germany people are born with golden hands and the IQ level, one of the highest in the world”
This shows your mindset. So you are like the rest of the Muslims who like the Germans for what they did to the Jews?
But I guess the real point of your post, your admiration of the Germans and their IQ is implicit but not stated. Less than 10% of Germans are church going. Why not copy this trait and not wear your religion on your sleeve? Maybe your children will also end up with one of the highest IQs
Rex mian,
I did a search on “what percentage of Germans go to church” and came across an interesting blog by a German. This statistic is dated from 2002. (That is 10 years ago for you) I hope what she says rings a bell with what is happening in Pakiland today
If by ‘part of culture’ you mean weekly church attendance, then there is only a minority of people religious in Germany. Statistics indicate only about 20 percent of those subscribing to some denomination officially (Lutheran or Catholic being the main faiths) actually attend services or otherwise practice their religion. Thus an active religious life with prayers, Bible classes and church attendance is a minority thing. You’re bound to raise a few eyebrows if you pray in public, and bound to be considered immensely odd. Additionally, church attendance has been dwindling for decades, though people still pay their church taxes as a means of supporting charity work done by church institutions. With the unification, a large part of the population that is atheist by denomination has been added. However, religious holidays like Christmas or Easter, albeit secularized and commercialized, feature very much in German cultural life. In this respect, German culture is still subliminally Christian. Historically, I think the reason for this development may be that we have seen in Germany centuries of religious persecution and bloodshed and have therefore embraced the separation of church and state very decidedly. Religion is thus a fundamentally private affair, and rigidly kept outside the public realm, which is entirely secular. If I remember correctly, at least four ministers of the current government did not swear their oaths of office upon the Bible, because they are atheist, and omitted the ‘so help me God.’ If you ask around, the court decisions passed a few years ago to keep crosses out of schoolrooms and courtrooms will be very much on people’s minds still. Religious groups blame secularization for the fact that religious life has been declining; the argument runs that what has become publically invisible does not exist anymore in people’s awareness. Personally, I think that the failure of the churches to come to terms with Nazi rule and live up to their own loud-mouthed ethic may have had something to do with the fact that people in Germany tend to ignore religions. Add to this that the religious worldview has been largely superceded by scientific understanding, and people will be aware that metaphysical entities (saints, angels and devils) and an almighty creator are somewhat anachronistic concepts.
Posted:
1/28/2002
By:
T. , Munich, NA, Germany , 32 , Female , Atheist , Over 4 Years of College
Mesg ID:
9514c766-f57f-4dc4-a131-928d8f7d7cc3
Romain,
Are you asking me or telling me something?
Rex Minor
PS
O’h please, not you too. Please do not try to study me or my mind set. Address the article and comment for the benefit of all and ignore my comments if you do not agree with them. Do not try to philosophise them in Indian frame work. You guys act as a mob and very seldom as individuals. This is your way but not mine;I do not speak for others nor care a damn what others think and act if they do not meet my standard. You are very wrong about muslims views on jews.
Rex Minor
Rex Mian,
I was both telling and asking. My understanding of what Muslims think of Jews obviously comes from Muslim – mainly my Paki friends. On the contaire I have simply no interest in studying you. For all practical purposes you might be a sane person but interact on chowk for “shugal”. I was merely responding to your posts.
Rex:
Can you tell me a reference from where you took this Helmut Schmidt, quote because I can’t find it. “Only two muslim States have to undertake sanctions against the industrial Nations and the whole world will come to stand still today”
.
In the meantime I found the following published in the ‘Hamburger Abendblatt’.
Do you agree with it?
.
Last year, former German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt proclaimed that bringing millions of Turkish guest-workers into Germany was a mistake and that multiculturalism can only work under authoritarian regimes. He said: “Indeed, multiculturalism was conceived and developed as a Marxist strategy for overthrowing free governments. The former Soviet Union used massive immigration and deportation to dilute the ethnic, cultural, and political cohesion of the peoples of the Baltic states with the objective of making them more compliant and compatible with Soviet rule. Hundreds of thousands of Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians were deported to Siberia, and hundreds of thousands of Russians were moved in to take their places.
Lebanon and Kosovo are good examples of what happens, when Muslim immigration and higher Muslim birthrates tip the demographic balance in former majority Christian regions: escalating violence and terrorism, assassinations, and civil war. Most Serbian Christians in Kosovo were forced to flee….”
Rhr
Do you see – why “what you v understood” is so precious? It doesn’t come easy.
Lebanon and Kosovo are good examples of what happens, when Muslim immigration and higher Muslim birthrates tip the demographic balance in former majority Christian regions
60% of lebnese,mostly christians are working outside lebnon.lebnon is new country carved out from syria,which was always muslim majority country.
CASUAL OBSERVER
Last year, former German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt proclaimed that bringing millions of Turkish guest-workers into Germany was a mistake and that multiculturalism can only work under authoritarian regimes………………
GERMAN HAD NO OPTION.SECOND WORLD WAR KILLED LOT OF MALE POPULATION.GERMAN PARLIAMENT PASSED RESOLUTION TO ALLOW 4 MARRIAGES.PROPOSAL WAS VETOED BY CHURCH.THEN 3 MILLION TURK WERE BROUGHT TO MARRY THEIR WOMEN.
“GERMAN HAD NO OPTION.SECOND WORLD WAR KILLED LOT OF MALE POPULATION.GERMAN PARLIAMENT PASSED RESOLUTION TO ALLOW 4 MARRIAGES.PROPOSAL WAS VETOED BY CHURCH.THEN 3 MILLION TURK WERE BROUGHT TO MARRY THEIR WOMEN….”
.
Thankyou for that insightful information.
And where are you quoting this from?
casual observer……………………………………………………………..casual the following is c&p from encyclopedia…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………3,500,000 — 4,000,000 (German citizens with at least one parent from Turkey)