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“Innocence of Muslims” and Muslims….
Raza Habib Raja
“One of the “best”ways to protest against a movie which portrays your faith as crazy, fascist and violent is to go and protest in a way that is crazy, fascist and violent !”
The above is a Facebook status of a friend (may be an excerpt from an article) which accurately describes what right now we are witnessing all across the Muslim world. How an obscure and crude movie on YouTube ( which by no stretch of imagination is state sanctioned or censored in the conventional sense) can spark such violent protests is something which really needs to be pondered upon.
Frankly I will not defend the movie as I have seen the thirteen minute trailer. I fully agree that it is crude and frankly aims at humiliating Muslims. But in no way, does it lead to any justification of the violence which has erupted all across the Muslim world.
Whenever I want to refute the increasingly voiced and accepted opinion that “ Moderate Islam is a Mirage”, something like this happens which leaves me completely speechless.
It is not the protests, as it is natural to protest against what a community feels is offensive and inflammatory. It is the ugly nature of protests which is extremely worrisome. Muslims really need to ponder over the fact that their excessive reaction actually ends up leaving them virtually isolated. The world does not feel any sympathy for them and correctly interprets them as perpetuators of hate and bigotry. This behavior also has a spillover effect on virtually all issues which involves Muslims and creates a universal impression that perhaps everywhere, even where they are actually prosecuted, Muslims are the main culprits.
And by the way let us not forget that while Muslims continue to rage over Blasphemous cartoons, movies and images, their own record with respect to treatment of minorities is pathetic. What they need to learn that world will only sympathize with them if they themselves show the same kind of respect they expect of their faith.
And besides the ugly nature of protests, the Muslims also have this misplaced anger towards the Western governments. An obscure movie, made by someone who has even been convicted in a fraud, is in no way connected with US government or West in general. However, in this strange Muslim mindset ( which by the way is roughly similar all across the globe reaffirming that Islamic identity cuts across the world), everything is being deliberately planned to insult them.
Much deeper and frankly important issue is the confrontation between Western ideals of freedom of speech and Muslims’ extraordinary reverence of their religion. I have pointed out before also that one of the major reasons as to why Muslims are like that is the extraordinary reverence which is instilled in their minds right from the childhood. Even those who are moderate ( and they exist in majority) and for that matter those who don’t follow Islamic rituals, have a tendency to get riled up when anyone mocks Prophet Muhammad or Quran. Religion for Muslims is like race or ethnicity and in fact even more than that. This is something which the West needs to understand.
While it is perfectly right to be critical of radical Islam and also question inhuman laws, but mocking or insulting the Holy Prophet will be completely counterproductive. It is just like calling African Americans as “Niggers” and expecting them not to even notice! Yes I am fully admitting there is a huge issue with the way Islamic World is today and we need to address the issue but mocking won’t just do it. I am being extremely realistic and pragmatic here. It is how you deal with the problem that will make any difference.
Yes I agree that religion is not that sensitive matter for many in the modern world but in Muslim world it is. And through mocking and ridiculing, we only further alienate the Muslims and in the process lose any realistic chance of engaging them for reforms.
However, at the same time it becomes difficult to just bow down in front of violent pressure exerted by Muslims when Muslims themselves show little credibility in terms of how they treat minorities and respect their religious freedom. Moreover, since freedom of expression is often construed as a hard won right therefore making exceptions for Muslims and that too in the face of violence, does not appear to be the “right” choice.
We need to nevertheless agree on something with religion’s criticism in the media. For example just like race, religion’s criticism also needs to be pondered over. For example, perhaps we can broadly agree that criticism on religious laws and customs is acceptable while ridiculing its symbols is not. There has to be at least some consensus, of informal type, which should guide media in general.
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- Rex Minor
said Kaal,
No wonder, the people of Pakistan reacted an... - Rex Minor said Kaal,
I ave not read the reference poster of the I...
- tajender
said read ramdhun instead of ramhun. - tajender said ghandhi ditched rss mean brhmns also, so brhmn nat...
- tajender said He is recorded as one of the four men to have kill...
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said The owners of PTH should put up a pay wall on the... - Maggu
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Tilsim
i want you to know that i too am sympathetic about the feeling of Islamophobia that grips the west. It is a significant narrative and i believe, in many ways, misplaced.
This is just so you know that i am not one of the typical extreme left wingers who is supporting absolute freedom of speech for the sake of it.
Your rebuttal to my prophets and world government analogy does not hold at all. You say that there were many prohpets that met a sticky end. So?! so what? the point is not the tolerance among the people. The point is the lack of a governing body that disallowed certain voices and allowed others. Whatt the people then make of it is their business but at least then, they are allowed to have their say and their word was heard.
I am not denying that Mohammed was not charismatic. He certainly was one of the most charismatic men of his times. But the truth is, given the controversial nature of many of his statements, it is not unbelievable that had a world government existed, elected democratically, it would have given peace primary importance for administrative purposes and then, the prophet could easily have faced a ban. Islam would not have been born. Just imagine someone today asking for the death of those who do not follow him! such a man would most certainly have been killed by the mob( today’s mob) or certainly jailed if his voice led to violence( as did happen in his time). In fact, now come to think of it, i think that one of the reasons new religions cannot grow is because of course we as people have socially evolved, but also that as a result of that social evolution we now have governments in place. Governments in many ways ensure that such voices do not take root and that is the result of our social evolution. We do not put our trust in an individual anymore. Be that as it may, i just want you to understand that your ideas of what is not permissible, things like personal attacks, incitement etc are all justified voices. I may want to attack a persons character for very just and valid reasons and i may want to incite the public against a corrupt government. In either of these, there is nothing wrong to me. So like i said, ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ is just a matter of which side of the fence you happen to be sitting on.
Only the people have the right to see what they make of your ‘hate’ speech and whether it is just or not. Which is why i keep telling you that it is essential that everything gets out there. Then, through a natural and inexorable process of debate and reasoning a certain narrative will be created. But let the people decide. Not governments. The idea after all has to appeal to your logic for you to accept it. Why do you think that certain narratives are dying a quick death? why do you think that racism is? USA have an African American president now so that charge cannot be leveled against them either. So you can be sure that if Islamophobia has such an inveterate narrative in the West as you say and something that is getting stronger, you can be sure that they have a valid reason. What with 9/11 and recent terror attacks, the Islamophobia is not completely unreasonable.
As for defending Sam Becile, well of course i am. I am defending him, i am defending Voltaire, i am defending anyone who cant keep his trap shut.
Kashif
Of course. If i am saying that the Koran has multiple interpretations then obviously i am saying that every written word does. Whether it is a Hindu, Christian or Muslim book really does not matter.
Just that i have never heard of a terrorist quoting the words of the Geeta or the Bible as his inspiration, but it is possible.
how you interpret it defines what kind of an individual you are.
And definitely religion should stay out of politics. No doubt about that.
I am defending anyone who cannot keep his trap shut. Says the Mullah of environment Engineering;
We did not shut Voltaire and this was followed by the suppression of the jews in Europe. We did not shut the trap of Hiler and he was overwhelmingly and democraticaly elected as the Chancellor of the Third Reich and was instrumental in making the German and Italian Govts secular free from the authority of the church and managed to set the entire world in flames, causing the deaths of millions including Jews.
And now we in the civilised world say to people who put out trash in public or the internet that “Shut your Fresse”.
The control of the internet is being worked out by the European Govts. so that this continent has a shield from those who are not taught ethics and morality in their childhood nor respect of humans other than their own vanity. Ours is a global village today and therefore a collective approach is necessary to tackle this monster.
Rex Minor
Here is a Pundit of morality who is defending Sam Bacile!
The name which according to lates reports was used by the skunk group of coptic christians, whose aim in the production of the film was to create a violent reponse in the muslim world against Israeli Jews, yes sir against Israel. This is what Voltaire letter to cicero was about Jews. Well, the muslims are not out against Israel and Jews but they have erased the American house in Libya and Tunisia, and this just before the friday.
Rex Minor
Kashif
And politics should equaly stay out of Religion in the 21st century.
Rex Minor
Rex Minor,
I believe the public opinion in Europe is moving in the other direction. The unprovoked attacks on the German embassy in Sudan has really riled up the people.
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Considering that these attacks all happened around Sep 11, even though the video had been for some time in Internet, really shows that these attacks were premeditated.
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I think within 10 years, one would see a strong turn to the right in Europe and Islam may be curtailed. The only thing really which is stopping the people in Europe from acting against Islam is the Oil in Saudi Arabia and West’s strategic interests in that. But USA has almost made itself self-sufficient in Oil, so it is willing to take more chances now!
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The Muslims may think that these attacks would intimidate other people, but they are contributing to a whole change in the perspectives of the Western people towards hatred of Islam. And then the “nette türkischer Bäcker in der Nachbarschaft” may not suffice to keep the rising emotions in check. If one has anything similar to what happened in Paris in Germany, Germans are going to show a very different face!
And muslims think that by walking 7 times around a stone pillar they reach heaven. Go figure………….
it is duty it will take anybody to heaven.deeds will.
Idolatory of Kissing the stone will do, Whats in Paradise any how ? Catering of the base animalistic instincts of weak men incapable of controlling their senses and having elevated mind . Its neither in spiritual nor intellectual or philisophical domain rather a physical created place subject to the laws of impermanency.
Satyamukhi,
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as far as I know many of the customs used in Islam are from earlier Arabic customs, many of which were inspired by Hinduism.
www_dot_youtube_dot_com_slash_watch_question_v_equalto_GRx3Fe3wzyY
mr Fingolfi,mr kaal this is for our knowledge.mr english translation will given to u soon.
हज़रत मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) और भारतीय धर्मग्रन्थ -3
नकीबुल हक Sunday July 01, 2012
3
सातवीं शताब्दी के शुरू में रोमन और पर्सियन साम्राज्यों की जितनी बुरी अवस्था थी, उतनी शायद कभी नहीं हुई। बाइजेन्टाइन साम्राज्य के क्षीण हो जाने से सम्पूर्ण शासन नष्ट हो चुका था। पादरियों के दुष्कर्मों और दुष्टताओं के फलस्वरूप ईसाई धर्म बहुत गिर गया था। पारस्परिक संघर्षों और शत्रुता के कारण अफ़रा-तफ़री का आलम था। इस समय हज़रत मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) भेजे गए। इस्लाम धर्म रोमन साम्राज्य के संघार्षों से दूर था। इस धर्म के भाग्य में यही लिखा था कि यह तूफ़ान की तरह से सम्पूर्ण पृथ्वी पर छा जाएगा और अपने समक्ष बहुत-से साम्राज्यों, शासकों और प्रथाओं को इस तरह उड़ा देगा जैसे कि आंधी मिट्टी को उड़ा देती है। (‘Apology for Mohammed’ b Gofrey Higgins,2) इसी प्रकार सेल ने कुरआन के अनुवाद की प्रस्तावना में लिखा है-‘‘गिरजाघर के पादरियों ने धर्म के टुकड़े-टुकड़े कर डाले थे और शांति प्रेम एवं अच्छाइयां लुप्त हो गई थीं। वे मूल धर्म को भूल गए थे। धर्म के विषय में अपने तरह-तरह के विचार बनाए हुए परस्पर कलह करते रहते थे। इसी पृथ्वी में रोमन गिरजाघरों में बहुत-सी भ्रम की बातें धर्म के रूप में मानी जाने लगीं और मूर्ती-पूजा बहुत ही निर्लज्जता से की जाने लगी। (Translation of the Qur’an, by Gorage Sale, First Tranlation/Preface on pages 25/26)’’ इसके परिणामस्वरूप एक ईश्वर के स्थान पर तीन ईश्वर हो गए और मरयम को ईश्वर की मां समझा जाने लगा। अज्ञानता के इस दौर में अल्लाह ने अपना अंतिम रसूल भेजा।
दूसरी बात ध्यान देने की यह है कि अंतिम अवतार उस समय होगा जबकि युद्धों में तलवार का इस्तेमाल होता होगा और घोड़ों की सवारी की जाती हो। भागवत पुराण में उल्लेख है कि ‘देवताओं द्वारा दिए गए वेगगामी घोड़े पर चढ़कर आठों ऐश्वर्यों और गुणों से युक्त जगत्पति तलवार से दुष्टों का दमन करेंगे। (अश्वमाशुगमारुह्य देवदत्तं जगत्पतिः। असिनासाधुदमनमष्टैश्वर्य गुणान्वितः।।) (भागवत् पुराण, 12 स्कंध, 2 अध्याय, 19वां श्लोक) तलवारों और घोड़ों का युग तो अब समाप्त हो चुका है। आज से लगभग चैदह सौ वर्ष पूर्व तलवारों और घोड़ों का प्रयोग होता था। उसके लगभग सौ वर्ष बाद से बारूद का निर्माण सोडा और कोयला मिलाकर होने लगा था। वर्तमान समय में तो घोड़ों और तलवारों का स्थान टैंकों और मिसाइलों आदि ने ले लिया है।’
कल्कि का अवतार-स्थान
कल्कि के अवतार का स्थान शम्भल ग्राम में होने का उल्लेख कल्कि एवं भागवत् पुराण में किया गया है। यहां पहले यह निश्चय करना आवश्यक है कि शम्भल ग्राम का नाम है या किसी ग्राम का विशलेषण। डा. वेद प्रकाश उपाध्याय के मतानुसार ‘शम्भल’ किसी ग्राम का नाम नहीं हो सकता, क्योंकि यदि केवल किसी ग्राम विशेष को ‘शम्भल’ नाम दिया गया होता तो उसकी स्थिति भी बताई गई होती। भारत में खोजने पर यदि कोई ‘शम्भल’ नामक ग्राम लिखता है तो वहां आज से लगभग चौदह सौ वर्ष पहले कोई पुरुष ऐसा नहीं पैदा हुआ जो लोगों का उद्धारक हो। फिर अंतिम अवतार कोई खेल तो नहीं है कि अवतार हो जाए और समाज में ज़रा-सा परिवर्तन भी न हो, अतः ‘शम्भल’ शब्द को विशेषण मानकर उसकी व्युत्पत्ति पर विचार करना आवश्यक है।
(1) ‘शम्भल’ शब्द ‘शम्’ (शांत करना) धातु से बना है अर्थात, जिस स्थान में शान्ति मिले।
(2) सम् उप सर्गपूर्वक ‘वृ’ धातु में अप् प्रत्यय के संयोग से निष्पन्न शब्द ‘संवर’ हुआ। वबयोरभेदः और रलयोरभेदः के सिद्धांत से शम्भल शब्द की निष्पत्ति हुई, जिसका अर्थ हुआ ‘जो अपनी ओर लोगों को खींचता है या जिस�����������े द्वारा किसी को चुना जाता है’।
(3) ‘शम्वर’ शब्द का निघण्टु (1/12/88) में उदकनामों के पाठ हैं। ‘र’ और ‘ल’ में अभेद होने के कारण शम्भल का अर्थ होगा जल का समीपवर्ती स्थान’। (कल्कि अवतार और मुहम्मद साहब, पृ. 30)
इस प्रकार वह स्थान जिसके आसपास जल हो और वह स्थान अत्यंत आकर्षण एवं शांतिदायक हो, वही शम्भल होगा। अवतार की भूमि पवित्र होती है। ‘शम्भल’ का शाब्दिक अर्थ है- शांति का स्थान। मक्का को अरबी में ‘दारूल अमन’ कहा जाता है, जिसका अर्थ शांति का घर होता है। मक्का मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) का कार्यस्थल रहा है।
जन्म तिथि
कल्कि पुराण में अंतिम अवतार के जन्म का भी उल्लेख किया गया है। इस पुराण के द्वितीय अध्याय के श्लोक 15 में वर्णित है-
‘‘द्वादश्यां शुक्ल पक्षस्य, माधवे मासि माधवम्।
जातो ददृशतुः पुत्रं पितरौ ह्रष्टमानसौ।।
अर्थात ‘‘जिसके जन्म लेने से दुखी मानवता का कल्याण होगा, उसका जन्म मधुमास के शुक्ल पक्ष और रबी फसल में चंद्रमा की 12वीं तिथि को होगा।’’ एक अन्य श्लोक में है कि कल्कि शम्भल में विष्णुयश नामक पुरोहित के यहां जन्म लेंगे। (शम्भलग्राममुख्यस्य ब्राह्मणस्य महात्मनः। भवने विष्णुयशसः कल्किः प्रादुर्भविष्यति।।) (भागवत पुराण, द्वादश स्कंध, 2 अध्याय, 18वाँ श्लोक)
मुहम्मद साहब (सल्ल.) का जन्म 12 रबीउल अव्वल को हुआ। रबीउल अव्वल का अर्थ होता हैः मधुमास का हर्षोल्लास का महीना। आप मक्का में पैदा हुए। विष्णुयशसः कल्कि के पिता का नाम है, जबकि मुहम्मद साहब के पिता का नाम अब्दुल्लाह था। जो अर्थ विष्णुयश का होता है वही अब्दुल्लाह का। विष्णु यानी अल्लाह और यश यानी बन्दा = अर्थात अल्लाह का बन्दा = अब्दुल्लाह।
इसी तरह कल्कि की माता का नाम सुमति (सोमवती) आया है जिसका अर्थ है – शांति एवं मननशील स्वभाववाली। आप (सल्ल.) की माता का नाम भी आमिना था जिसका अर्थ है शांतिवाली।
अन्तिम अवतार की विशेषताएं
कल्कि की विशेषताएं हज़रत मुहम्मद साहब (सल्ल.) के जीवन (सीरत) से मिलती-जुलती हैं। इन विशेषताओं का तुलनात्मक अध्ययन यहां पेश किया जा रहा है।
1. अश्वारोही और खड्गधारी – पहले लिखा जा चुका है कि भागवत पुराण में अंतिम अवतार के अश्वारोही और खड्गधारी होने का उल्लेख है। उसकी सवारी ऐसे घोड़े की होगी जो तेज़ गति से चलने वाला होगा और देवताओं द्वारा प्रदत्त होगा। तलवार से वह दुष्टों का संहार करेगा। घोड़े पर चढ़कर तलवार से दुष्टों का दमन करेगा। हज़रत मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) को भी फ़रिश्तों द्वारा घोड़ा प्राप्त हुआ था, जिसका नाम बुर्राक़ था। उसपर बैठकर अंतिम रसूल ने रात्रि को तीर्थयात्रा की थी। इसे ‘मेराज’ भी कहते हैं। इस रात आपकी अल्लाह से बातचीत हुई थी और आपको बैतुलमक्किदस (यरूशलम) भी ले जाया गया था।
मुहम्मद साहब को घोड़े अधिक प्रिय थे। आपके पास सात घोड़े थे। हज़रत अनस (रजि.) से रिवायत है कि मैंने मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) को देखा कि घोड़े पर सवार थे और गले में तलवार लटकाए हुए थे। (बुख़ारी शरीफ़ की हदीस) आपके पास नौ तलवारें थीं। कुल परम्परा से प्राप्त तलवारें जुल्फ़िक़ार नामक तलवार, क़लईया नामवाली तलवार।
2. दुष्टों का दमन – कल्कि के प्रमुख विशेषताओं में एक विशेषता यह भी है कि यह दुष्टों का ही दमन करेगा। (भागवत पुराण 12-2-19) धर्म के प्रसार और दुष्टों के दमन में मदद के लिए देवता भी आकाश से उतर आएंगे; (यात यूयं भुवं देवाः स्वांशावतरणे रताः।) (कल्कि पुराण, अध्याय 2, श्लोक 7) हज़रत मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) ने दुष्टो का दमन किया। उन्होंने डकैतों, लुटेर��ं ���र अन्य असामाजिक तत्वों को सुधारकर मानवता का पाठ पढ़ाया और उन्हें सत्य मार्ग दिखाया। हज़रत मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) ने ऐसे कुसंस्कृत लोगों का सुसंस्कृत से रहना सिखाया। औरतों को उनका हक़ दिलाया। एकेश्वर के साथ तमाम देवताओं के घालमेल का आपने ज़ोरदार खंडन किया तथा कहा कि इस्लाम कोई नया धर्म नहीं है, बल्कि सनातन धर्म है। दुष्टों के दमन में आपको फ़रिश्तों की मदद मिली। कुरआन मजीद में अल्लाह कहता है कि अल्लाह ने तुमको बद्र की लड़ाई में मदद दी और तुम बहुत कम संख्या में थे, तो तुमको चाहिए कि तुम अल्लाह ही से डरो और उसी के शुक्रगुज़ार होओ। जब तुम मोमिनों से कह रहे थे कि क्या तुम्हारे लिए काफ़ी नहीं है कि तुम्हारा रब तुमको तीन हज़ार फरिश्ते भेजकर करे, बल्कि अगर उसपर सब्र करो और अल्लाह से डरते रहो, तो अल्लाह तुम्हारी मदद पांच हज़ार फ़रिश्तों से करेगा। (कुरआन, सूरा आले इमरान, आयत संख्या 123, 124 और 125)।
सूरा अहज़ाब में भी हज़रत मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) को ईश्वर की मदद मिलने का उल्लेख है। इस सूरह की आयत संख्या 9 में वर्णित है कि ‘‘ऐ ईमानवालों! अल्लाह की उस कृपा का स्मरण करो, जब तुम्हारे विरूद्ध सेनाएं आईं तो हमने भी उनके विरुद्ध पवन और ऐसी सेनाएं भेजीं, जिनको तुम नहीं देखते थे, और जो कुछ तुम कर रहे थे, वह अल्लाह देख रहा था।’’ इस प्रकार दुष्टों का नाश करने में ईश्वर ने हज़रत मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) की मदद के लिए अपने फ़रिश्ते और अपनी सेनाएं भेजी।
3. जगत्पति – पति शब्द ‘पा’ (रक्षा करना) धातु में उति ‘प्रत्यय’ के संयोग से बना है। जगह का अर्थ है संसार। अतः जगत्पति का अर्थ हुआ संसार की रक्षा करने वाला। भागवत पुराण में अंतिम अवतार कल्कि को जगत्पति भी कहा गया है। (भागवत पुराण, द्वादश स्कंध, द्वितीय अध्याय, 19 वां श्लोक)
हज़रत मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) जगत्पति (संस्कृत के व्याकरणाचार्य वामन शिवराम आप्टे ने ‘‘पति’’ शब्द का अर्थ ‘‘प्रधानता करनेवाला’’ भी बताया है (देखिए, संस्कृत हिन्दी कोश, पृ. 568, मोतीलाल बनारसीदास पब्लिशर्स संस्करण 1989)। इस प्रकार जगत्पति का अर्थ हुआ: संसार में प्रधानता करनेवाला। हज़रत मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) जिस इस्लाम धर्म को लेकर आए, वह यद्यपि मानव जीवन के आरंभ से विद्यमान था, परन्तु आप (सल्ल.) के ज़रिए इसे पूर्णता और प्रधानता प्राप्त हुई। कुरआन में अल्लाह का कथन है: ‘‘आज मैंने तुम्हारे लिए पूर्ण कर दिया और तुम पर अपनी नेमत पूरी कर दी, और तुम्हारे लिए इस्लाम को ‘‘दीन’’ (धर्म) की हैसियत से पसंद किया।’’) (5ः3)
(अल्लाह के रसूल (सल्ल.) ने संसार में सत्य को प्रधानता दी, उसे फैलाया और लोगों को इसके लिए उभारा कि स्वयं भी सत्य का अनुसरण करें और दूसरों तक सत्य-संदेश पहुंचाएं। आप (सल्ल.) के द्वारा नेकियों और अच्छाइयों को प्रधानता मिली। अच्छे शील स्वभाव और नैतिकता की पूर्ति हुई। एक हदीस में आप (सल्ल.) ने कहा: ‘‘अल्लाह ने मुझे नैतिक गुणों और अच्छे कामों की पूर्ति के लिए भेजा है।’’) (शरहुस्सुन्नह) हैं, क्योंकि उन्होंने पतनशील समाज को बचाया। उसकी रक्षा की और संमार्ग दिखाया। आप सारे संसार के लोगों के लिए ईश्वर का संदेश लेकर आए। कुरआन में है-‘‘ऐ मुहम्मद एलान कर दो कि सारी दुनिया के लिए नबी होकर तुम आए हो।’’ (कुरआन, सूरा आराफ़, आयत संख्या 158) एक अन्य स्थान पर है-‘‘अत्यंत बरकतवाला है वह जिसने अपने बंदे पर पवित्रा ग्रन्थ कुरआन उतारा ताकि सम्पूर्ण संसार के लिए वह पापों का डर दिखानेवाला हो।’’ (कुरआन, सूरा फुरक़ान, आयत संख्या 1)
4. चार भाइयों के सहयोग से युक्त – कल्कि पुराण के अनुसार चार भाइयों के साथ कल्कि कलि (शैतान) का निवारण करे���गे। (च��ु��्भिभ्र्रातृभिर्देव करिष्यामि कलिक्षयम्।) (कल्कि पुराण अध्याय 2, श्लोक 5)
मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) ने भी चार साथियों के साथ शैतान का नाश किया था। ये चार साथी थे-अबू बक्र (रजि.), उमर (रजि.), उसमान (रजि.) और अली (रजि.)।
5. अंतिम अवतार – कल्कि को अंतिम युग का अंतिम अवतार बताया है। (भागवत पुराण के 24 अवतारों के प्रकरण में कल्कि सबसे अंतिम अवतार हैं।) (भा.पु. प्रथम स्कंध, तृतीय अध्याय, 25वां श्लोक) मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) ने भी एलान किया था कि मैं अंतिम रसूल हूं।
‘कल्कि’ शब्द का अर्थ ‘वाचस्पत्यम्’ तथा ‘शब्दकल्पतरु’ में अनार का फल खानेवाले तथा कलंक को धोनेवाले किया गया है। पैग़म्बर (सल्ल.) भी अनार और खजूर का फल खाते थे तथा प्राचीन काल में आगत मिश्रण (शिर्क) और नास्तिकता (कुफ्र) को धो दिया। (कल्कि अवतार और मुहम्मद साहब पृ. 41)
6. उपदेश और उत्तर दिशा की ओर जाना – कल्कि पैदा होने के पश्चात पहाड़ी की तरफ़ चले जाएंगे और वहां परशुराम जी से ज्ञान प्राप्त करेंगे। बाद मंे उत्तर की तरफ़ जाकर फिर लौटेंगे। मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) भी जन्म के कुछ समय बाद पहाड़ियों की तरफ़ चले गए और वहां जिबरील (अलैहि.) के ज़रिए अल्लाह का ज्ञान प्राप्त किया। उसके बाद वे उत्तर मदीने जाकर वहां से फिर दक्षिण लौटे और अपने को जीत लिया। पुराणों में कल्कि के बारे में ऐसा भी लिखा है।
7. आठ सिद्धियों और गुणों से युक्त – कल्कि अवतार को भागवत पुराण 12 स्कन्ध, द्वितीय अध्याय में ‘अष्टैश्वर्यगुणान्वितः’ (आठ ईश्वरीय गुणों से युक्त) बताया गया है। ये आठ ईश्वरीय गुण महाभारत में भी उल्लेख किए गए हैं। ये गुण निम्मन हैं-
1. वह महान ज्ञानी होगा।
2. वह उच्च वंश का होगा।
3. वह आत्मनियंत्रक होगा।
4. वह श्रुतिज्ञानी होगा।
5. वह पराक्रमी होगा।
6. वह अल्पभाषी होगा।
7. वह दानी होगा और
8. वह कृतज्ञ होगा। (अष्टौगुणा: पुरुषं दीपयन्ति, प्रज्ञा च कौल्यं च दम श्रुतंच। पराक्रमश्चा बहुभाषिता च, दानं यथाशक्ति कृतज्ञता च। – महाभारत)
अब हम इन गुणों को पैग़म्बरे इस्लाम (सल्ल.) के गुणों से क्रमवार साम्यता करेंगे। मुहम्मद (सल्ल.) महान ज्ञानी थे। उनमें प्रज्ञा दृष्टि थी।
प्रस्तुत पुस्तिका में डा. वेद प्रकाश उपाध्याय के शोध ग्रन्थों ‘नराशंस और अंतिम ऋषि’ और ‘कल्कि अवतार और मुहम्मद साहब’ के अलावा अन्य स्रोतों से प्राप्त तथ्यों एवं सामग्रियों का समावेश किया गया है।
Raj,
Then let us meet in ten years time and talk about the situation. A dialogue and not confrontation is the way to avoid war of cultures.
The action against the German Embassy was provoked; i have explained this twice.
Let the muslim states complete their revolutions without the involvement of non muslim states. Not Islam, but the muslims in the arabian coutries need Aufklarung/the enlightnment towards humanism. Right now their leaders are following the zionists capitalism policies and are buying all around the meditrenian countries with the wealth that belongs to the people.
American Govt. does not recognise the jurisdiction of the criminal court at hague and therefore they have remained immune for the crimes they have committed against foreign Nations. This must be brought in place by Mr Noon. America is a shattered country living on borrowed money from the treasury Print machine and is backed up by many countries of the world who hold their currency reserves in Dollars, the largest one is China and the Gulf states. They are desperately going around the world to sell their weaponry to other Nations, while simutaneously trying to create wedge between several Nations to the point of starting ww3. You Indians and Pakistanis are moaning about the few deads during your conflicts but ignore what occured in Europe and Japan?
Rex Minor
Raj,
At times you can be hillarious. Now do not tell the Jew Rabi and the muslim mullah in Berlin that it was hinduism which introduced circumcision of boys aftr birth. It is known that this practice is older than the Ibrahimic religions.
Rex Minor
RajTOO
.
I am aware of that and IMHO this is why Muhamamd had special hatred for Indians. No man in right constructive mind will demand to bring Dharma symbolising Indian King to be captured and humiliated to please Muhammad and his AE Allah. Indians uses various images to express and celebrate the life infused by Divine. But kissing an inanimate stone as an act of worship is 400% pure idolatory. Think of it, as long as other images and symbols exist , no way Muhamad could install himself as exclusive idol in the mind of his followers. irony of the issue is it was/is in india where islam was defeated in both religious and military field and the retreat continue since 17th century.47 was crucial as it put big dent in the tent of islam. Qabila is sitting outside border, living on Khairat while Kuffar is on the way to achieve its social, spiritual, economic ,civilizational objectives. The more they riot more they and hoax get exposed. There is nothing more telling than when their own are now beginning to question the very mental make up of the whole Qabila. What we knew hundreds of years ago, few of them are now beginning to realize the truth of Kuffar’s correct assesement.
Kaal Bhai,
“jo dekhan me chhote lagein, ghav karein gambheer.”
.
Are meri kya bisaat ki main gambheer ghav karun. Main to apne musalmaan bhaiyon ko agah kar raha hoon ki woh ek humare bihar ke famous bahubali ke dohe ko na follow karein. Unhonein Sant Kabir ke dohe ko kuch is tarah badal dala tha:
.
“Jo toku kanta boye, tahi boye tu bhala,
Woh sala bhi kya samjhega, kis se pada tha pala”
.
Non-Muslim opinion may be moving against Muslims as much the Muslims are moving further away. This is not good for anyone as it will lead to violent conflict. I believe the media who are the opinion formers and are led by certain ideologues is significantly culpable because they are painting a picture of Muslims which is very distorted. If you switch on fox news, one of the top rated channels, there is a daily news item about how the US is under attack by Muslims. A couple of nights ago, Bank of America’s site was running slow and Fox had the lead story that Muslims (probably Hezbollah) were suspected of hacking the site and which was causing the average online bank of America customer to suffer. Bank of America did not say this but Fox thought that was an explanation. In the US election campaign, the white man’s fear of the red indian is now replaced by Muslims. It’s pathetic.
Tilsim Ji
So you dont want American to indulge in CT as Muslims Do . You dont Americans to go on Jihad to force their objectives.Please tell us which country has no security issue with Muslim Minority? In Asia, China, India, Burma, Thailand , Philipine are the victims, Western European countries and Russia same, Africa is suffering in Nigeria, Kenya,Sudan and Somalia is synoymous with all the worst thing in humanity. The usual excuse that Kaffirs dont know Islam dont work any more. When whole civilized world is pointing fingre at Muhamamd and his doctrine then it is good idea to introspect and change. Human world have ecome out of medieval mentality but not Muslamans because only way to do is to break the mental idol of Muhamamd. Well Kuffar is not going to wait and any violent confrontation may become detrimental for Muhammdan dogma. The strength of Kuffar is thousands of time more and the shoe will be on Islamic foot.Kaffirs are taking firm stand and in absence of any real intellectually convincing counter argument from Muslims , the opinion is going to get harden by the day. Just like Muslims first loyalty and obligation is to Islam, Mecca and Muhamamd, same way Kuffar have obligation to all that is Non islamic. Just like Musalmans abhor Kuffar, Kuffar prefer absence of islam in their surroundings.
@ Fingolfin
If it’s all about letting it all be out there, you may have noticed that the French banned a protest against the cartoons in front of the Paris Mosque today. Funny that. Clear lines are being drawn when it comes to freedoms.
Freedom of speech or freedom to incite hate?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/york-city-subway-ads-calls-jihadists-savages/story?id=17280805#.UFufVI7lerI
@Tilsim
There are reciprocal problems as well, as you surely appreciate.
Accept for a moment (for a moment in the sense of detaching detailed consideration for the purposes of a specific aspect to be considered) that responsible administrators in the liberal democracies review their free speech provisions, and remind the citizenry that free speech that is offensive is not going to be restricted, but free speech that deliberately sets out to cause violence or disorder will be punished. This will not stop the Muslim fringe from erupting with rage on some other, non-free-speech related occasion. This will, on the other hand, incite the non-Muslim to bare its hackles. This will diminish and humiliate the non-Muslim left (because opposed to the right, not because it is a body of Marxian stalwarts).
Your arguments are valid. It is just that this seems to be a poor moment to choose to tinker with the free speech regime.
Tilsim Ji
Dont blame others as this man is saying exactly what millions other are saying and feel the same way. The one sided affair is gonna end and Muslims have to live with it. By commentig on the religions of other with arrogant contempt ,Islam and Mslims have invited the response. Hope you understand that any claim on this ridiculous Finality is tremendous amount of insult on other religions. The god and prophet of islam is perfectly valid within the four walls of islam but uttelry irrelevant outside its dogmatic, social ,cultural boundaries.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCXHPKhRCVg&feature=player_embedded
Tilsim
When did i say that the West has unfettered freedom of speech? It’s just something that i want to see in the world.
And yes, freedom to incite hatred is the same as freedom of speech or at least comes under the larger bracket of it. So yes, i support it. Hatred can be an important tool in effecting change. again, good hatred and bad hatred are a matter of perspective.
“you are within your rights as long as you are not infringing another’s”. the people who actually get influenced by hate speech and then end up doing stupid things are infringing another’s rights and are to blame. Not the person who made the speech. Find fault with the rioters, reform them, reason with them argue with them, threaten them. Use your powers of freedom of speech and let the people decide their course of action. When everything is out there, they will decide. If you keep taking adds like that down, where will you stop?! you will find that war and peace are a constant and unending cylce of the human condition and will never end. your preventive measures will only turn out to be increasingly counterproductive.
Minor
the anti-semitic narrative was a deep one and only climaxed with Hitler. but even then, Hitler’s case is not a freedom of speech issue. He was violating the rights of others in a gross manner. Such aberration happen all the time.
How can freedom of speech be blamed here. here was a man who did not spread the anti-smemitism by word of mouth. He just cashed in on it and on the apathy of the German people. Anti-semitism was rampant at the time.
Nobody stopped anybody from going against the views of Voltaire. Absolute freedom of speech does give you that right you know. Besides, that narrative seems to be transferred to your people and the Muslim world. The West is anti-semitic no more. If you feel so passionately about it, why don’t you speak up against it? rather than foolishly blaming freedom of speech for the cause of anti-semitism. why don’t i see you write a book called ” the jew is not my enemy?” It’s a clash of narratives and whichever appeals to people more for a variety of reasons will be accepted and acted upon.
Clear lines are being drawn when it comes to freedoms…………………
Fingolfin………there should no freedom to hurt somebodys feelings.french economy is down.they want to rob some small muslim country.field is being prepared for that.war is a good bussines.but their end will be same like americans in iraq and afghanistan,may be worse.
Rex Minor
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“HP and others,
Please do muslims the favour and do yourself a favour and not try to interpret Islam or Quraan. You are not the only one there are other non muslims crackpots as well and they are doing the same fruitless exercise to their agony. One requires a lifetime and more to understand the divine words. One is not supposed to until one is enlightened. A muslim simply agrees to follow the path which Islam prescribes for a life style. It does not mean that each of us become a perfect muslim.”
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Rex, Islam is interpreting other religions every day, from the rooftops of the mosques, shouting so all can hear, that all other religions are false, all other gods are false, and Islam is the true religion. Koran instructs its followers to cut the heads of the polytheists, but gives a welcome breather, when the sacred months have passed . Muslims if confronted claim those verses are to be understood “in context”, but will not allow the “context” to be added to an annotated version of Koran. Rex, not too long ago in the Armenian genocide the Turkish used to take boatloads of children to the Black sea and capsized the boats, all in the name of Islam. And now you are saying “Thou shalt not kill” are God’s words! How do you spell “Cut the Crap” in German?
Idolatory of Kissing the stone will do, Whats in Paradise any how,
satyamukhi,……….as per islam only good deeds will take you to heaven.not kissing the stone.we only remember our forefathers by going to hajj.itis part of duty with somr conditions……………….
it is duty it will take anybody to heaven.deeds will
it is duty it will not take anybody to heaven.deeds will.
Heavy Petting,
“Buddha reasonable? He was the reason India got enslaved for one thousand years.”
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Well, that is a bit of stretch. If you are alluding to the timeless lame excuses by every two-bit intellectual that due to pacifism preached by Buddha, the Indian society had turned into a mass of effete, spinach munching automatons who could not wield a sword to defend themselves or their cows, then you are way off the mark, my friend.
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“Besides if the recent Orion Magazine photo was genuine, it’s hard to feel respect for someone penetrated from the backside by Ganesha.”
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I was hardly expecting anyone else to respect Buddha. I have respect for quite a few of this ideas. Mercifully, he preached without any resort to magic tricks and threatening the idle masses that had it not for his munificence, those restless angels would have destroyed his enemies.
I found his depiction very obnoxious, but for a different reason. I thought that the depiction of Buddha with love handles lolling about him as very inaccurate. More than a few commentators have remarked on his athletic bearing and a few kings went so far as to offer him generalship of their armies. But, hardly an excuse to work oneself up into a lather.
Islam is interpreting other religions every day, from the rooftops of the mosques, shouting so all can hear, that all other religions are false, all other gods are false, and Islam is the true religion…….
heavy_petting……………everybody says the says the same.what is wrong.we offer our arguments
then it is upto others to accept or reject.recently shankaracharya of benaras converted to islam,sudarshan died with praise of islam in his heart.
rex ur description of america is correct.i can say safely that indians are more happier than them.only those who are involve with defence or health are a bit happy for others life is realy a struggle.jews are inciting hatred against muslims,they want to make money through christian -muslim clash.we have to be careful.they are a cursed race.enemy of humanity.
Bade Miyan,
hindu hai jahan ghareebe hai wahan jehalat hai wahan pareshanee hai wahan,why why and why.
Tilsim,
Let me begin by saying that I understand your sentiments and I must acknowledge that you have maintained a consistent position. You have shown equal respect to other religions and I understand your plea for a reciprocity. But the basic point is that you fail to realize that the world doesn’t think uniformly.
” The US is involved in forming and bringing down governments. It’s not a neutral party in that sense. ”
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At the root of your angst is your perception that US is an evil imperial power bent on bringing down Islam. You have right to your views but as reasonable men, we must, after the tempers have died down, look into the source of our thought processes. I had a suspicion that the basic issue is what Bernard Lewis hinted at almost 12-13 years ago: the loss of power that Islam has suffered at the hand of the West. Hussain Haqqani has come out with a similar reasoning. When you say that Muslims have had enough and now they are pushing back, you forget that this has been happening for a long time ago, much before Rushdie’s book started all of this. The sacking of US consulate in Pakistan in 1979 was based on hearsay.
Coming back to this stupid film. The US, at the highest level, has dissociated itself from the makers of this film. Their highest officials have criticized it in the strongest possible terms. The assassinated ambassador decried it right away. I don’t see what more could it do. The administration is reputed to have asked google to remove it. On one hand, you are aggrieved that Muslims are painted with a broad brush but you find no irony in generalizing things about Americans. Let’s imagine a different scenario. How would have Britain or the Ottoman Empire reacted if one of their ambassadors was similarly treated? Let’s not forget that Dahir’s kingdom was sacked because he was accused of giving shelter to a few looters of Hajjaj’s ships. Therefore, I think it’s good to analyze one’s own stand.
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“The US citizens and others should therefore not take offense that people should ask it to reflect on it’s out of date law which stands at variance with international norms. ”
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I don’t think US citizens are taking offense about your advise of reflecting upon their law. But they think that it’s good enough. As much as it’s a thorn to your side, you should respect it. They have paid in blood for their beliefs.
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“The US stands as an exception to much of the world. Is the rest of the world less civilised than the US? I think not.”
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Of course not and I agree with you. But that notion of American exceptionalism shouldn’t be so unfamiliar to you. After all, doesn’t Islam claim that it is the ***only*** true religion and the ***only*** path to heaven, whatever that thing is. The rest of the world similarly cannot understand why, if the Pope could accept that there are other ways to God, Muslims cannot accept this very simple thing and remove derogatory references to non-Muslims and unbelievers. I agree with you that it’s a vexing problem and it lies at the core of the beliefs of both sides. But peace cannot be bought at the threat of violence.
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Your quote from UN declaration of rights fails to explain how that movie qualifies as hate speech. It is a crude portrayal of the prophet but how does that conflate to inciting hatred against the Muslims as a whole. Unless you mean that it incites Muslims to engage in random acts of violence. In that case, twisted logic it may be, but I might have to agree with you.
Bade Miyan
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Spread of Buddhism was one of the reason. Not the only reason, factionalism for instance was another one, but even though Buddhism receded it left an indelible mark in the form of pacifism, vegetarianism, fatalism etc. And yes he would have been a successful general with his ideas of absolute non-violence and fatalism. He was handsome, much unlike the Chinese depiction, but not with the mind of a general able to protect a kingdom.
saad, “everybody says the says the same.what is wrong.we offer our arguments then it is upto others to accept or reject.”
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Saad, fine by me, that you shout that all other Gods are false from the rooftops of the neighborhood mosque. I don’t mind your “argument”. Now, will you mind if I draw a cartoon of the Prophet and publish it? After all you can “accept or reject” my drawing as you please.
RHR,
“For example just like race, religion’s criticism also needs to be pondered over. For example, perhaps we can broadly agree that criticism on religious laws and customs is acceptable while ridiculing its symbols is not. There has to be at least some consensus, of informal type, which should guide media in general.”
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Unfortunately, in your quest to satisfy every constituent, you have ended satisfying no one. On one hand, you are firmly against removal of the videos from the youtube, but on the other hand, you are propagating some kind of code of omerta in place for the media. That is no different from censorship. First of all, no, and I repeat, no tv network carried this film so I am not sure of your point about media. Your comparison with race and holocaust doesn’t really wash. That has to be issue based. The N word is not used because it’s not acceptable to the TV audience. It was freely used a couple of decades ago. When it comes to satire and mocking symbols, nothing is off limits. As far as mocking of religious symbols is concerned, it seems that except Muslims, rest of the religions have resigned themselves to this facet of modern entertainment. So, in effect, what you are saying is that because of super sensitivity of Muslims there should be an informal agreement not to mock ***any*** religious symbols. In other words, we all follow the Muslim code of conduct. Even if we take your point, at what stage it’s ok for us to crack jokes about “religious” symbols.
Prophet? Complete no.
His wives? No way.
Rightly guided caliphs? Of course not.
Ali? Hussain? Nopes.
Prophet’s camel? Hmmm. Probably but you are still flirting with danger. I hope you see my point.
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Now, I am not dismissing the possibility that one day when Islam has taken over the whole of US, then we might have to live under these guidelines, but till then, I guess it’s fine.
Heavy Petting,
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By the time of Muslim conquest of India, Buddhism, for all practical purposes, had disappeared. Factually, you are incorrect on that one.
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“it left an indelible mark in the form of pacifism, vegetarianism, fatalism etc.”
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The fatalism is not a product of Buddhism. It would be unfair to credit it with so much effect. As for vegetarianism, that’s an old argument. For your reference, almost all the boxers and wrestlers from India who won Olympic medal this time were strict vegetarian, except Mary Kom.
HP
i don’t think that you are aware of the fact that the Buddha ate pork and died of amoebic dissentry because of it.
Also the spread of Buddhism had nothing to do with the pacifism of the Indian people.
a thousnad years after the Buddha, Skanda Gupta defeated the Huns who had ravaged much of the civilized world then. That act more than anything has helped the Gupta’s claim to being the most powerful Kingdom on earth then. They were Hindus, but Buddhism was very popular then and it was in the time of Chandra Gupta the second, that Fa Hyan the Chinese pilgrim came to India and was struck by the number of Buddhist Universities and monasteries. He was also struck by the states prosperity and development and thanks to him, we have an impartial eye witness eulogizing the Gupta’s to the extent that a better state was not imaginable.
Indians were to smart to know the efficacy of non-violence and where it should be applicable. They ever allowed that to cloud their military judgement.
Even when Ashoka’s famous and unique remorse came about and he started becoming kaam Ashoka( ahoka of love) from chand Ashoka( demon ashoka) he too did not do away with his armies nor did he let the structure of the state be affected in anyway. he did stop his policy of aggression and became as a ‘father to his people’. he did not even let go of Kalinga. From then(ca 300BC) right upto Harsha( the last great Indian Chakravartin), India had Kingdoms proud of their armies and their battles. Harsha was a buddhist who had fought many famous wars with the southern kings( Pulakesin) and so were the Pala’s of Bengal who also had a proud martial tradition.
Without the Buddha, India’s landscape would be so much poorer. I am a huge fan. Not least because he asked his followers to ‘be a light unto themsleves’ and not follow him.
His impact on India, if you ask me, was nothing but the best.
Bade Miyan
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By the time of Muslim conquest of India, Buddhism, for all practical purposes, had disappeared. Factually, you are incorrect on that one.
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Bade Miyan, I am aware of that. I said basically the same, read my post again. The rest is your hunch, as it is mine.
BM
It is merely a suggeston and that too about informal consensus..btw insults about race were discontinued because people belonging to that race considered it offensive…First amendment allows it provided no violence is incited
Within race also, it is not essential that every “race” dislikes it…some of the same race may simply laugh it off..and some get offended..Now race is off limit nevertheless and it does not take into account that “every” race is not that sensitive as for example blacks..What I am saying is that sensitivty around race will vary from race to race but it will nevertheless be mostly off limits despite being legally allowed
There is just an unwritten consesus and nothing else that owing to sensitivity this wont be aired..
Now if I had suggested that there should be a law banning ridicule of Prophet then perhaps your “concerns” would have been valid….I never said that…
And btw this informal consesus actually exists as media normally (according to your own claim) does not air ant Muslim stuff…I admit that and I mentioned it in the beginning of the article also..I said moving forward we have to be careful..
And this is just a suggestion…I am not pointing a gun here….
I really dont know what is the fuss about??
Now can we move forward..
Or we have to debate this in circles????
Somehow or the other the muslims want a world in which islam is not criticized. Even the so-called muslim liberal has to take part in this campaign, otherwise the islamofascist can accuse him of apostasy or of being a munafik.
Protecting the innermost core of islam – namely its totalitarianism and fascism – that is the call of the day for muslims.
See how they are working on this.
Why are muslims so fanatic about not allowing any criticism of islam? Because they KNOW that islam is based on lies.
RHR,
I have no doubt about your well intentions but all I am doing is pointing out the pit falls of such an “informal” agreement? You can see that in India. In case you didn’t know, the filming of a movie made on Rushdie’s book Midnight children was not allowed in India based on this so-called informal agreement.
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“insults about race were discontinued because people belonging to that race considered it offensive”
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A big part was that such insults were not kosher any more in the larger public domain. Media hardly took the lead in that matter. I am pretty sure if CBS or FOX had shown that film, they would have received widespread disapproval. Plus, you are mixing race issues with depiction of a person, no matter how offensive that depiction may be.
I am “mixing” it with depiction because both are PERCEIVED to be offensive
I know there is a difference but in terms of impact it is the same..Impact is offense…
Racial slur ( not dicrimination)on media creates offense and for Muslims depiction of their Prophet has the same effect( I think it is so obvious)…
Anyways as i said earlier that I agree with you that actually media did not play a role here and this has been admitted in the article also.
Now anyways you do not hve to agree…As a writer I do not epxect everyone to agree..
We have to ask whether Mohammad is worthy of being adored.
All these satyrizations etc. are a result of this question not having been asked or allowed.
Get to the root cause of all this turmoil.
@BM
“At the root of your angst is your perception that US is an evil imperial power bent on bringing down Islam”
I appreciate your desire to understand. However, the word evil against the US is redundant for me. Why are you exagerating other than perhaps the stereotypes of Muslim views that may have become embedded in your mind. I judge nations in terms if good and evil. I judge each government for its record. The US on the whole has been an example to the rest of the world but like any other nation, there are many different Americas. There is the America that upholds the weak. There are George washington’s ideals. Thereis the ACLU. There is also Jerry Falwell’s America. There is Fox news America. There is an America that does not see that it has to carry people along not caricature them and their symbols as savages. The US embassy line was good. It said the film was against American values. However as we know in election year, Romney pounced and condemned the US administration and said we should be projecting our might, robustly. The subtext being that all Muslims are savages and this is the only language they understand. Others jumped on the band wagon and have started pouring further oil. I think there is genuine anger at this attitude. For me it is not directed at the US government but at the people who’s values I dont share.
Oops…..Correction: I dont judge nations in terms of good and evil!
@BM
I have not said that the US government is bent on bringing down Islam. Your citation of Bernard Lewis plays into existing orientalist narratives and tries to fit me into it. You are an intelligent fellow so you should see that you are also being affected by these narratives. I am not blaming you in any way, its just an observation and i have to check myself too because it is easy to become blind folded.
Rex Minor wrote:
Rex Minor,
The genesis of circumcision lies in two different cultures.
1) Circumcision was known to ancient Egyptians as well, but that tradition came from Sub-saharan Africa along with the African slaves and culture, as river travel on the Nile became more prevalent. It is in fact a ancient tradition still followed by many African tribes there as a rite of passage from boyhood to manhood, even among many non-Muslim tribes. Through Egypt circumcision was also known in the Middle-East.
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2) Just so as to give you some measure of history and geography of the time. In the East of Mesopotamia, there existed one huge civilization called the Saraswati-Sindhu Civilization (SSC) or Indus Valley Civilization (More of it was around the Saraswati River than around the Indus). This civilization covered more than a million square kilometers and was bigger than the Egyptian and Mesopotamian put together.
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3) However the tribe of Abraham came from the East, from Ur of Chaldees. BTW Ur simply means city. Many are of the opinion that Abraham came from IVC/SSC area. Persians and Afghans still see themselves related to the tribes of the Jews.
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4) At the time, the biggest cult in Indus Valley was the cult of Siva/Shiva, and most probably Abraham’s ancestors belonged to this cult.
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5) As one travels West, the ‘S’ at the starting of many words become silent. That is why Indians say Sindhu, Persians say Hendu, and Greeks say Indus. That is how Siva became Yiwha/Yahweh in the Middle East.
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6) The God of Abraham was none other than Siva.
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7) Now the question arises as to why Abraham introduced circumcision among his people.
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8) Of course it was inspired by the African custom of rite of passage from boyhood to manhood, but why would any of his people want to let somebody cut up their pricks. That is painful and one doesn’t really want any knife coming close to one of man’s most beloved organ. The reason was faith. Only strong faith motivated his people to undergo circumcision. But faith in what?
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9) Pure Vedic religion does not really have much need for any idols. However it does sanction the use of idols so that the people of various cultures can feel better connected to the deities of their culture. So there have often been philosophers and reformers, among the Hindus who have appealed to the people to rise above the use of idols. They simply say that without idols is better, but not that with idols is wrong.
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10) So Abraham could have been one such reformer and Vedic believer. .
11) It is unclear whether the reason why the Abrahamites were encouraged to leave their Shiva idol due to inhospitable environment, for example, the king of the land not wanting any foreign idols, or whether the movement was purely reformist. We only know that they decided to forego the Shiva idol, the most visible form of which is the Shiv-lingam. It has a much deeper meaning than just phallus.
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12) However what they did not do is to turn their backs on their faith. No, they simply reiterated their faith in Shiva through a different method. They marked their bodies with the mark of Shiva, and made their own lingam, their penis-head, visible forever, by permanently removing the foreskin. It was to also mark one’s identity at a place where most would not see, perhaps as a means to hide oneself.!
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13) The Abrahamic code of circumcision is thus a fusion of two customs – the African rite of passage of boyhood to manhood (masculinity) and the Neo-Shivaite rite of assertion of faith. The difference between the Abrahamic code of circumcision and the African circumcision is that in Africa, the circumcision was undertaken only on grown-up boys. In Egypt it was the same thing. The Abrahamic circumcision is however also practiced on baby boys, and so it is essentially different from the African practice.
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14) With circumcision an Abrahamic really asserts his claim to be blessed by the God of Abraham – Yahweh or Shiva!
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15) Of course, this history has to some extent become lost, and all one has are the many indications. Abraham was a Shivaite from the Indus Valley, from current Pakistan, whose father Terah migrated West with his people!
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16) You may know that the split between John, Jesus’s brother and Paul, was on the question of circumcision, where Paul claimed on behalf of Gentiles that circumcision is not needed.
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17) So it is not that easy to get converts, other than through coercion, if you say that conversion would mean, cutting up one’s penis. No! The Abrahamics were willing to undergo circumcision for a God they already believed in beforehand – Shiva or Yahweh!
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Of course one needs to have a sense for history research if one wants to pursue a line of inquiry which may go against the dogma of the Mullah! I am telling you this because you mentioned this issue!
A new history is being composed and written as we watch. This beats P. N. Oak hands down.
to raj and rex
Rex has stated clearly that he does not discuss his islamic faith with non-muslims. He is scared that the lies in his islamic faith could get exposed.
Rex is an islamofascist of the soft variety.
He claims not to like violence, but he loves to defend lies and hide mendacities inherent in islam. He also likes to humiliate hindus and India wherever he can.
to vajra
That is the backlash to “sarkari-secular” historian Romila.
BTW Romila has recanted and admitted that she lied often to suit the JN University tenure.
How about you (with your supreme intelligence) trashing the muslim version of history which is even more fanatsy than what raj has spun out.
According to the muslim version Adam was a muslim. He was naked but said his namaz 5 times a day.
FF,
You are a total ignorance and shall remain so as long as you read every peace of crap that you can lay your hands on, Indians were always known for this, when they are able to read, they read every thing, liberal, conservative and extreme right as well as extreme left. It is very seldom to become enlightened from this type of exercise. I do not worship humans and read which is knowledge based, in all its aspects.
The use of common sense then guides me to throw away the day after day the garbage which the NYTimes and washington Post or Times put out.
Theoratic knowledge, theoratic politics and theoratic expressions, have no place in the real world. The word ‘jew’ is synanimous with vulgarity. This is all over Europe, when a person calls another a “bloody jew”, it has nothing to do with the religion of the person. The respective Govts had to invent the word anti-semit to protect the jews, not realising that arabs are also semite volks. No one makes dirtiest jokes and filthy stories about the jewish people than the jewish people themselves.
Hitler was popularly and democraticaly elected Govt. head and was the originator of the idea of ‘secularism’. He allowed freedom of speach without any limitations and then went on to realize the hatred against the jewish people, jipsies, handicapped and other minorities, which was present throughout Europe. who is not aware about the Vichy Govt.? tell us one european Nation which was friendly towards Jewish people? Remember also that former post war chancellor of Germany Helmut Schmidt is a jewish and held the position of a Captain in Hitler army.
It was also the Christian Europe which under the umbrella of the holy church started a crusade, a holy war they called it, against the so called barbarian Arabs. Great monarchs and barons with their armies from the North to the south ingluding England, were involved in the adventure and they were beaten, crushed and humiliated by the so called barbarians. Let us hope that no one shall venture this again.
Today, the media, schools and universaties, as well as the entire elites of the USA are under the control of Zionism. Read and examine carefully the dollar schein, a symbol of Zionism.
So when you try to interpret the scriptures of One God, you must beome a jew first, then go over to christianity and then Islam. And remember that todays Bible was altered and amended by King Constantine, so let no American evangelist zionist tell you what is in Quraan which is not in Bible. This is a very long road and no non believer or an ateist is in a position to pass a judgement on Islam. You have more than once passed a commentary about quraan that you are not meant to follow, others like the great love of BM who once called himself a muslim could not, slipped and was sent to wilderness, a living death. He is very soon going to appear with another zionist Indian and tell the ignorent Americans why the muslims around the world are so outraged about a film that most have not even seen. I do not wish any muslim to go his route least of all RHR, knowing very well about the fine line between the good and evil. A muslim is capable to feel the evil without seeing the Evil or reading Evil wrks, and without watching or reading the Evil inspired material. Most of what you write, I do not read and yet by reading a single sentence get the feel of your output. Not for Islam but for your own knowledge try to learn the political landscape of the USA as well as the rest of the western world before you pass your judgements.
Rex Minor
PS
Do not tell muslims what is bad about Islam but tell us what is good about you and your faith. Follow the lines of Kaalchakra, the living human who has broken the barrier of religions. He knows more about Islam than many muslims I have come across and I am sure that he does not know less about hinduism either.