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Pak Tea House » Islam » Victory of religious control

Victory of religious control

By Saad Hafiz:

The unequal battle between the depleting ranks of secularists and the growing band of Islamists in Pakistan is all but over. The dream of a progressive, democratic and pluralistic society is in tatters. It appears that secularists could only take comfort from one speech by Mr Jinnah, which lent support to a secular society, while Islamists could count on decades of constitutional accommodation and appeasement.

The Islamist camp has also been boosted by the democratic and military leaders who have used Islam for political gains. Their contribution to the development of an obscurantist and sectarian society is no less than that of the orthodox clerics. Liaquat Ali Khan, the first prime minister of Pakistan, considered among the secularists, sponsored the Objectives Resolution under the pressure of the clerics. This happened immediately after the passing of Mr Jinnah, who had laid down secular guidelines in his speech to the Constituent Assembly. In the following decades, there was a conflict between the secularists and the clerics. This conflict made the task of constitution making difficult, particularly since the Bengalis wanted to keep some secular clauses like joint electorates. Under their influence, a compromise constitution did come up in 1956.

In line with the Objectives Resolution, the preamble to the 1956 constitution spoke of Allah as having “sovereignty over the entire universe”. It spoke of authority exercised by the people of Pakistan as being within the limits “prescribed by Him as a sacred trust”. The preamble spoke of all laws of Pakistan conforming to the Koran and the Sunnah. Muslim scholars had been urging that all legislation be null and void that contravened, in letter or spirit, Islamic law as laid down in the Koran. They had been urging that the powers of government be derived from, circumscribed by, and exercised within the limits of Islamic Sharia law alone.

In 1962, martial law was replaced by a second constitution, with the preamble to the 1956 constitution remaining in place to appease the Islamists. The 1962 Constitution introduced two Islamic institutions, namely the Advisory Council of Islamic Ideology and Islamic Research Institute. The alienation of the Bengalis and the corruption of the generally secular General Ayub’s regime brought another martial law headed by General Yahya Khan, who ordered general elections in the country, which resulted in the total defeat of the fundamentalist parties. Balochistan and the Frontier provinces backed the secular parties. It was under their influence that Pakistan got a somewhat balanced 1973 Constitution with cosmetic and vague Islamic content. Mr Bhutto under pressure from the Islamists soon started to tinker with it. His end came at the hands of the very obscurantist elements that he tried to appease.

General Zia took over after deposing Mr Bhutto. In a self-serving referendum, the people of Pakistan were asked to endorse “the process initiated by General Muhammad Ziaul-Haq, the President of Pakistan, for bringing the laws of Pakistan in conformity with the injunctions of Islam as laid down in the Holy Quran and Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and for the preservation of the Islamic ideology of Pakistan, for the continuation and consolidation of that process, and for the smooth and orderly transfer of power to the elected representatives of the people.” General Zia, through a rush of ordinances, also changed the basic laws of the state. Hudood and blasphemy ordinances changed the political culture of the country. Pakistan was on its way of becoming a theocracy.

Benazir Bhutto and Mian Nawaz Sharif who came after Zia did little to reverse the tide of fundamentalism and the exploitation of Islam for personal benefit continued. In fact, the emergence of the Taliban and profusion of the fundamentalist elements were the landmarks of their rule. When General Musharraf took over, he started projecting a secular and liberal image for himself by praising Kemal Ataturk. The orthodox clerics reacted against it and the concessions on relaxing the blasphemy law were quietly shelved.

The imposition of one vision of the ‘good’ on others who may not share it is almost complete. This is indeed antithetical to the notion of a democratic system that protects individual and minority rights. The main fault of organised religion is the reliance on violence rather than on the trust in its own truths. Secularism is not a renunciation of religion, but is a recognition that violence and state-sponsored force should not be the mechanism to spread any ideology. Religious control will inevitably lead to despotism, not democracy, because it privileges power over reason. This should have been reason enough for opposing the efforts of Islamists to enter and seek to seize control of the state and the political marketplace. However, a clear unified lobby who are strong proponents of religious domination, and who provoke attacks on those who value their own autonomy and political choice, are in the driver’s seat. On the other side, there is just a silent populace that has lost its nerve through decades of internal harassment by the ruling forces aligning themselves with the fundamentalists. This one-sided struggle assures victory for those elements that want to ram through their agenda of religious control of state and society.

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213 Responses to "Victory of religious control"

  1. NDelhi India Internet Explorer Windows says:

    So Drone babu,
    where are you in your effort to highlidht the story to American newspapers & obama. Are you able to make any headway !!!
    Need any help , please contact Brahmins, Banias & Lalas… we have a better clout.

  2. mahee United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    a very interesting, peice of info i came across a courtesy of my senior.
    Related to concept of khatam e nabuwat described in Maulana Muhammad Qasim Nanotvi’s book tehzir un naas. Maulana sahib was an Islamic Scholar and one of the main people responsible for establishing the Deobandi movement.
    maulana writes in his book and i quote with my heretic mirjai mind :
    //”even if a thousand true prophets succeed Holy Prophet (s.a.w) even then his status of being khatim un nabieen will not be changed”"//
    I dont know but what, maulana sahab has said in this small sentence, has conveyed what we ahmadis are screaming on loudest of our pitches for more than a century now. and maulana himself knowing what he is writing does he not get it, or does he decline it on purpose.Because if the all pirs and gaddi nasheen maulvis, start beliving in Massih e mauood , mujadid, imam mehdi Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadian (a.s) their piri fakiri will have to stop.Their followers would have to stop prostrating in front of them, and they will have to start rethinking about unity of ALLAH, AND Muhammed (s.a.w)) as Khtimunabieen ,the seal of prophet, rehmatu lil alamin, mercy for all.Because thats what Promissed messiah was sent for, to bring revival of islam.
    The title khatimunabieen, is for Muhammed (s.a.w) only, it means he is the seal of prophets.no one before or after him can ever be gifted prophethood like him.there is a uniqueness in his prophethood,there is finality in his book , of quran,and his existence for all, is as what GOD says one reason the universe was made, to have Hazrat
    Muhammed(s.a.w) in it.so if for him the entire universe was made , then cant some one who loved him more than himself, be gifted this gift of being Muhammed’s subservient prophet. It’s the glory of Muhammed’s (s.a.w) prophet.Its the ultimate finality in Hazrat Muhammed’s(s.a.w) prophethood that after him no prophet can bring a new shariah or book, but only in his subservience, reviving his teachings, glorifying his name again, reliving the spirit of the true teachings and religion of Hazrat Muhammed(s.a.w).thats the kind of position we ahmadis keep Muhammed(s.a.w) on.
    it,s like if all the prophets sent by allah stand side by side each other, there is only one prophet who has a subservient prophet standing behind him, and that unique Prophet is Hazrat Muhammed (s.a.w), sadiq or ameen.His glory is not in just being the last, his glory is in being the seal, the ring, the greatest, and the unique, and his glory is in when someone get so deeply in love with him then he can be gifted with being his subservient prophet .
    Thats the kind of love ALLAH has for Hazrat Muhammed(s.a.w), and thats how he showered his love on Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed(S.A.W), for being the a true follower of Hazrat Muhammed (s.a.w).JUST LIKE HIS NAME, MIRZA GHULAM AHMED(A.S), WAS A TRUE SUBSERVIENT OF HAZRAT AHMED(S.A.W).

  3. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Mahee,

    And pray tell us what does this great Maulana idividual means with his statement about the hypothesis of ‘IF’ and “thousand true prophets”? Did he write these sentences in arabic language? I realise that you guys are highly romantic and extremely emotional indivduals but what does all this brings for you as an individual, a group or for the Ummah.

    I am a musalman(not a Mohammadan), believe in the God of Ibrahim and accept Mohammad(pbuh) as the last prophet of God who brought for the humanity the religion of Islam.END. I do not belong to any religious group nor recognise any mortal religious authority but am prepared to support school of thoughts which unite and not divide the Ummah.

    Rex Minor

  4. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    Umma needs to stop selling oil to kuffar who are killing umma’s innocents with drones.

  5. HistoryBuff United States Mozilla Firefox Mac OS says:

    KC,
    looking on chowk.com for your writings, where else should I look?

  6. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    Quran only Muslims are the purest Muslims – they are able to escape the non-sense in hadiths.

  7. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Arabs must throw out dirty black tar from the holy land which is worthless domesticaly but fetches dollers from starving infidels, who clean it and later use it as an energy source besides other.

    Rex Minor

  8. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    Rexie

    Some time you talk like pagan kuffar. There is no holy land – entire universe is holy.

    True Muslims should free Muslims of the curse of black stone. It should be buried in sea with laden – these tradition are all pagan impurities.

    Allah is truly universal – let’s not limit it to Arabs. Arabs were the most jahil race on earth that is why Allah sent his messenger there. Since then they have reverted back to being jahil.

  9. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    MTG,
    You are a practical example of the old Robot. I want you to act the way I think but you appear not to respod at all as compare to the latest version of the Robot which acts on the basis of the thoughts of the operator. I was amazed to see the latest results of the trial. The concept is to facilitate the handicaps using lap tops, I phones and I pads witout the use of key board. Besides, thanks to arabs otherwise we shall be still in darkness without the knowledge they brought to us. You guys are ungrateful, instead of exporting your talent to Europe your ancestors went over to the jungles of Cambodia and set up the first industrial city in the world.

    Rex Minor

  10. MilesToGo United States Safari Mac OS says:

    Arabs became intelligent because of Islam otherwise they were jahil – Allah says that in his book.

    Now with Muhammed gone they have again gone back to their old ways.

    Not sure why would you go against Allah or his words – anyways that is between you and Allah but we must trust Allah’s wisdom.

  11. MilesToGo United States Safari Mac OS says:

    Arabs did not bring knowledge. Allah did.

  12. MilesToGo United States Safari Mac OS says:

    http://youtu.be/QcsOIGP_eKs

    This is more offensive than the earlier movie…

  13. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    MTG,

    one surfs on and along the waves, not against it. Arabs have the unlimited resources, oil is just a small part of it. The jews are clever, they insist on living next to and among arabs.

    Rex Minor

  14. MilesToGo United States Safari Mac OS says:

    Allah, rasool and muslims will make their own waves. kuffar waves are kuffar. once true islam is followed, kuffar will be wiped out and allah’s laws will be supreme. we just need an aufklarung in Islam.

    God bless Muslims.

  15. HistoryBuff United States Safari iPad says:

    Kuffars can be taken care of with Benadryl cough syrup.

  16. tajender United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Kuffars can be taken care of with Benadryl cough syrup
    as per katju ex-cji 90%of hindus are stupids.i wil put figure 99%.
    machchar bhagwan kee jaye ho.

  17. MilesToGo United States Safari Mac OS says:

    kuffar are 100% stupid – allah said so in his book. Let us not distort facts given by allah. Allah is the most wise.

  18. zafar Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Religious thought or theocracy prevailed,so what is fight about now we all are full to our satisfaction for our faith, move forward to do something better, rather going back to stone age bewildered democracy, which is a living anarchy in this country, thanks to the moderates with their funny Lollywood mentality, they could not manage to run. While theocracy is winning in your own analysis.
    And please don’t blame theocracy for that, i don’t think you can find any in Shah Noor Studio.

  19. gautam United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    kkuffar are 90% stupid……brhmn says and i am sure………………………………………………………..uffar are 100% stupid….not sure

  20. MilesToGo United States Opera Windows says:

    Allah is most merciful as well.

  21. zafar Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Stupidity in its essence has a lot of dots(…)in the brain cells. so to claim. Once i saw the cow dung in the hand of a woman and wanted to paste it on the wall. The height of stupidity it only burned the food with cow inside not the brhmn, why????

  22. Kamath. Canada Safari iPad says:

    MilesToGo:
    Salaam: you have blasphemed so many times in a day, don’t you have even an iota of fear of Allah that you will be judged and punished on the last day of judgement? So repent now and save thyself.

    Salaam

  23. HistoryBuff United States Safari iPad says:

    As Musharraf would say, mufflers are 400% stupid.

  24. HistoryBuff United States Safari iPad says:

    ^^kuffars. You should wage jihad on the sofware companies whose automatic spell correction does not recognize kuffar.

  25. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    Kamath

    I have never disrespected Allah or his rasool.

  26. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    Kamath

    I am not sure what makes you lie about me. Show me a single post where I have disrespected Allah or his rasool. Allah is beyond disrespect. Forget Allah I can’t even disrespect one of his smallest creations like sun or trees or oceans.

    It’s impossible to blaspheme.

    The whole blasphemy non-sense is pagan impurity. Allah does not care about blasphemy – these are human emotions and limitations – Allah is beyond them.

    You should fear Allah for believing in such non-sense. Getting roasted in hell is not a nice thing.

  27. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Fellows, let us not degrade PTH or the article.

    Zafar has made a valid point about theocracy. Pakistan democracy does no longer reflect the Islamic values and its majority political parties have left the themes such as morality, ethics, human dignity and justice, which are anchored in the religion of Islam, to the fringe Islamic parties who at the same time are being accused by the previlaged and elite liberal members of the society as well as the Govt. and the neocon controlled America, for causing extremism and violent resistance across the land.
    A democracy which does not protect the libe and digniy of a citizen is nothing more than a govt. of I’s which uses its power for the few: Pakistan needs a democracy for We’s! Pakistan liberals should stop talking over the heads and align themselves with the people.

    Rex Minor

    Rex Minor

  28. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    rex minor, your answer is on”" are ahmadis non muslims “”article, comments.
    t.c

  29. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Mahee,
    Sir, I can not imagine as to why should an Indian scholar of Islam write about thousands……, this hypothesis is uncalled for, provocative and irresponsible.

    I do not seek truth about Islam, I know the truth and this is my faith. It is not for me to judge those I love.

    What is happening in Pakistan in the name of the religion is sheer politics and maness and has nothing in common with Islam. The curriculam in the school provided by the Govt.(not in Madrassas and not by the religious affiliated political parties) is encouraging a campaign of nationalism through indoctrination and incitement through contempt and hate towards fellow non-muslim students. This should not be acceptable in any society and must be stopped and amended. I am watching the aforesaid in FRANCE 24 cable network news.

    Rex Minor

  30. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    error; Madness not Maness.

  31. Thomas United States Mozilla Firefox Mac OS says:

    The elite Neocons here in “neocon controlled America” are telling us Americans…. that Afghanistan and the taliban are no longer threat but the U.S. military must stay in Afghanistan to be there if the
    government in Pakistan falls to prevent any nuclear weapons from getting into the “wrong hands” which… I suppose means anybody but THEM… They have it all planned to snatch Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal and take your arms to…some other country…

    “The News International, Pakistan’s largest English-language newspaper, published a report on October 13 based on excerpts from American journalist Bob Woodward’s recently released volume “Obama’s Wars” which stated that during a trilateral summit between the presidents of the U.S., Afghanistan and Pakistan on May 6 of 2009 Pakistani head of state Asif Ali Zardari accused Washington of being behind Taliban attacks inside his country with the intent to use them so “the US could invade and seize its nuclear weapons.” [1]”

    A Pakistani commentary of the preceding day stated: “[W]e have…been dragged into giving the US access to Balochistan from where it has been attempting to destabilise the Iranian regime through support for the terrorist group Jundullah….Even more threatening, unless we change course now, we will have lost the battle to retain our nuclear assets because that is where the NATO-US trail is eventually leading to.”

    Khalilzad, whose résumé includes stints at the Defense Department, the National Security Council, the Center for Strategic and International Studies, the National Endowment for Democracy, the RAND Corporation (where he assisted in establishing the Middle East Studies Center) and the Project for the New American Century, reportedly took issue with Zardari’s contention, which led to the latter responding that what he had described “was a plot to destabilize Pakistan,” hatched in order that, according to Woodward’s version of his words, “the US could invade and seize [Pakistan's] nuclear weapons.”

    Where do you citizens of Pakistan think your nuclear arms are on the Neocon’s to do list…??? AND/OR Do you feel that those arms of yours are beyond the access of NATO and the U.S. to snatch at any cost–????

    The article I excerpted and pasted above is titled “New War Rumors: U.S. Plans To Seize Pakistan’s Nuclear Arsenal” By Rick Rozoff]

    http://bit.ly/dn6PmB or google [NATO, Pakistan nuclear arms, Rozoff]

    1.) 1) Shaheen Sehbai, Zardari says US behind Taliban attacks in Pakistan… The News International, October 13, 2010

  32. gautam United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    EHRAN: Iran has launched its own video-sharing website to compete against Google’s popular YouTube whose content is deemed inappropriate by the Islamic regime, the state television reported on Sunday.

    The website (http://www.mehr.ir) called ‘Mehr’, meaning affection in Farsi, aims to attract Persian-speaking users and also promote Iranian culture, according to its About Us page.

    “From now on, people can upload their short films on the website and access (IRIB) produced material,” said IRIB deputy chief Lotfollah Siahkali.

    A Facebook page dedicated to Mehr is providing links to some of its content, including music clips produced in Iran.

    Iran has consistently censored YouTube since mid-2009, in the wake of the disputed elections that returned President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to power

  33. Thomas United States Mozilla Firefox Mac OS says:

    I have beem reading Rex Monor’s comments here at PTH or quite some time and, as I remember, he always seems soft spoken and wise.. but only today did I realize he is a Muslim… Rex Minor really doesn’t make me think Muslim like say Mohamet Aziz would… It’s nice to have his insights here or those of us who are not very connected to Pakistan or Muslims.

    As far as: “Pakistan democracy does no longer reflect the Islamic values and its majority political parties have left the themes such as morality, ethics, human dignity and justice, which are anchored in the religion of Islam, to the fringe Islamic parties who at the same time are being accused by the previlaged and elite liberal members of the society as well as the Govt. and the neocon controlled America, for causing extremism and violent resistance across the land.”

    I could say: “Amerian democracy does no longer reflect the Christian values and its majority political parties have left the themes such as morality, ethics, human dignity and justice, which are anchored in the religion of Christianity, to the intellectual fringe, And parties who at the same time are being accused by the privileged and elite liberal members of the society as well as the Govt. controlled by Neocons and their paid lackeys, causing militarism and violent suppression across the land. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMpEr-MOSyk

  34. Dronacharya Saudi Arabia Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    SHORT NAMES : THE FIRST STEP. Muslims must have small names like : Mao, Hu, Lee, Pi, Tao. Their names are too long. Some name have around 30 Alphabets ! How long will it take to write / type such long names. A first name of 3-4 alphabets., and get rid of the surname. It smacks of tribalism.

    Forget about neo-cons – Iran – Jinnah (virtues and vices)! How about some Wealth-creation. Some Start-Ups. Some Hard Work. Some positivity ? Eh.. Nostalgia is delicious. Far delicious than Biryani itself. Its hard to give it up and come out and face the Sun of Reality.

  35. Maggu India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    THOMAS: Ohh.. looks like you got taken in too. Rexie is actually a Asian Taliban hiding in Germany.

  36. Dronacharya Saudi Arabia Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Hindutva in Action ! A perpetrator of genocide (mumbai 1992) gets a “State Funeral”. Aadaab Arz Hai ! A perpetrator of genocide (gujarat 2002) keeps winning elections (Afterall democracy is a game of numbers). SO what has india turned into ? a majoritarian mobocracy ?

    YES.

    Breaking News – 10 Dec 2012 –

    15-year-old schoolgirl Sania Fatima who was kidnapped from Miyapur, Hyderabad Andhra Pradesh, India two days back.

    Sania, resident of Patancheru, was returning home from school (Lotus High School). However, she was kidnapped by Driver of the school bus Manju Prasad (along with his friends – all RSS/VHP/BJP workers) on her way home.

    PS : Hindus will say : forgive and forget. atleast she is alive. where as in Pakistan.. malala. So aal izz well w/India. Praise Hindutva and Hinduism 24×7. Modi is the epitome of Humanism (hindutva-vadi humanism i.e.)

    Isko to main nangaa karoonga.. proper forums par.

  37. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Thomas,
    I have followed your comments and admired them mostly because unlike many you did not post others analysis and opinions on the blogs.

    I seldom write about myself but have followed the trail of Islam in most parts of the world and was surprised to learn of very few changes since Ibn Batuta wrote about his experiences. My faith is very personal but the unabated influence of Islam fascinates me and at the same time concerns me when it gets related to the personal deeds of muslim men. Christianity is not foreign to me either and Islam is an integral part of my soul.

    Your latest comments are valid. But let me add that the world is not controlled by humans but God the almighty one. America under the leadership of Obama and co is licked, defeated, disgraced and is following the same path of the Romans(history). Its army units scattered around the world while its leader at home arranges for salary payments, its war machinery is slow and old and its diplomatic corps is now made up of Zionists. The Industry manufacturing base is old and weak. Their alternative to Drones and Cyber war is not their baby any longer(the Indian Fareed Zakari could dream for the Americans) the youth under 18 are in muslim and Asian countries and they are the future exploiters of the artificial home made intelligence of the computer. What is more difficult to construct a drone or bring down safely the enemy drone under control. Iran most liely will display the American drones on their next indepemdence day.

    Rex Minor

  38. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    PS
    Who is Mohammad Aziz? The American special forces stationed in Jordan are suppose to take out the chemical weapons in syria and its special forces are in okinawa to take out the loly pops i north Korea and in Germany to counter Russias moving loly pops, the only power capable of withstaning the first strike an returning with devastating response an so on. How does one bell the cat? Take out an old man after breaking the trust with an ally and with the loss of 50% equipment loss? Jimmy carter failed in Iran but he did ot send one more helicopter, says Jimmy on hindsight. Foresight and not hindsight is required of the super power!!

  39. Maggu India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    “she was kidnapped by Driver of the school bus Manju Prasad (along with his friends – all RSS/VHP/BJP workers) on her way home. ”
    .
    Did you see their membership cards? I can only say, like you do…”a criminal has no religion”

  40. Maggu India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    ” A first name of 3-4 alphabets., and get rid of the surname. It smacks of tribalism. ”
    .
    Since you have a 12 letter name, lets start with giving you a four letter one. Suggestions: Dumb, doof, door, chump, chimp, dhur, .. choose one

  41. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    dear rex minor,
    sir in order to make things even better i will quote Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (a.s)
    promissed messiah says
    “”O ye learned people of Islam!””
    O ye learned people among the Muslims! Do not be hasty in rejecting me as false. There are many profound secrets which man cannot comprehend in a hurry, all at once. You should not be ready to reject a thing the moment you hear it, for this is not the way of the righteous. Had there been no errors among you, and if you had not interpreted certain Ahadith in a manner contrary to their real sense, then the advent of the Messiah, as a judge and adjudicator among you, would have been a useless thing. The mission you assign to this advent, namely, that he would join force with the Mahdi, to make war on all in order forcibly to convert them to Islam, is a belief which brings disgrace to Islam. Where at all is it written in the Quran that war is permissible for the sake of spreading one’s religion by force? On the contrary we find Allah saying in the Holy Book:
    There is no compulsion in matters connected with religion.
    promiised messiah said
    “”///Everyone who is purified, is purified through firmness of conviction. It is conviction which gives you the strength to bear hardships, even to the extent of persuading a king to abdicate his royal throne and take to the life of a mendicant. Conviction dissolves all difficulties. Conviction enables a man to see God. All ideas of any atoning sacrifice are false, for every kind of purity comes only from firm conviction. The only thing which delivers a man from sin, and advances him in sincerity and steadfastness, far ahead of the angels themselves, is conviction and conviction alone. All religions which fail to create this firmness of conviction are false. All religions which fail to show God by means beyond any shadow of doubt are false; and all those religions are false which contain nothing more than a handful of tales and fables about what happened in the past///****

    sir, if you actually read all the above that has been quoted from the kashti nooh, book written by Hazrat promissed messiah, do you get the message , that there is no coersion in islam, there is no compulsion of any kind of force permisible for the spread of islam, he makes it is very clear that war is out of question in this new era humanity is entering, he being sent as a prophet in this era has been completely spot on in saying this and propagating this.the only jihad that promissed messiah has encouraged and of gold standard according to him “jihad bil qalam” jihad with pen. further more from the above paras it is clear from the above passage, what a moderate believer of islam he was, he has said it very clearly that no religion is complete without conviction, and to promote islamic teachings his message is very clear from above quoted lines “that religion with fables and tales of past is not a complete religion.
    Ahmaddiyyat is to clear all the dissent and wide blank space that have come in the linear continous flow of islam. Ahmmaddiyat is to purge all the turbulence, ahmadi is to be human first, than muslim, than real follower of Holy Prophet (s.a.w), than the a believer of Promissed messiah and brother of followers of all the major religions of the world, all people of the book, may it be sikh, deo bandi or jew.All our people of the divine books, and respect of their religions and books and imperative on an ahmadi.Ahmaddiyyat has brought all religions under one roof and every shadow of doubt that any of us may have related to any religion is clarified by ahmadiyyat.The concept is not so palatable for the “orthodoxia” of all religions, but for moderates and enlightened wise its a breath of fresh air.
    no matter what your doubt with ahmaddiyyat is, you must read ahmadi literature written by the divine founder Mirza Ghulam Ahmed(a.s) , and your doubt will be cleared.the condition for reading is “conviction”.
    After all this and above, now is ahmadiyyat for dividing all or joining is what i leave for you to decide.
    my motive mr.rex minor is in no way to teach islam or ahmaddiyyat here as im sure you must know more , my motive was just to make you realise one thing that coming of Imam Mahdi , Promissed Messiah was to adjoin all religions was to adjoin all humanity and was to end all coflict and dismiss the idea religious extremism and favour tolerance and amnesty for all.and as Holy Prophet(s.a.w) commanded his ummat to follow the messiah and imam mahdi , whose coming He promissed himself.ahmadis being holy prophet”s true followers are doing that, and in Imam Mahdi following ahmadi are trying to propagate peace, prosperity religious tolerance and spreading islam in a peace loving manner.you must go to our mosques , and go to our religious meeting, and see for yourself the humengous social work projects ahmadis are working on, you must hear our khalifas frida sermon and then if you find extremism, hatred in them then i will accept i am wrong. but since i see you are a man who has knowledge and who favours peace ahmmaddiyyat is something you must try and you must observe and if you like you must practice the real islam we follow.
    “love for all, hatred for none”.

  42. mahee Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    error: **end all conflict **

  43. gautam United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    lets start with giving you a four letter one. Suggestions: Dumb, doof, door, chump, chimp, dhur, .. choose one

    but these suites to all indians.not especially to muslims.i have been to vaishanav devi,pns is erected through refrigeration cycle.people think there is something divine in it.betee baap se kahtee hai kya lauda hai.that is why katju says 90%of indians are idiots.mtg will be better candidate for dhur/chimp.

  44. Maggu India Safari iPad says:

    GOTTAM: start going to a school not a madrasa, learn to spell, to write good grammar and finally to type. Then, Momma Maggu will give you a four letter name too.

  45. Maggu India Safari iPad says:

    GOTTAM: start going to a school not a madrasa, learn to spell, to write good grammar and finally to type. Then, Momma Maggu will give you a four letter name too.
    .
    And are you a murtad? Why have you done shirk by going to vaishno Devi? And you are guilty of Fitna by hiding under the Kuffar name of Gautam….. You should be ashamed. Aren’t there enough Islamic names or are you too ashamed of your religion to take an Islamic name? Kaffir…. Aaak thooo

  46. gautam United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Why have you done shirk by going to vaishno Devi

    just to check the fraud.

  47. thomas United States Mozilla Firefox Mac OS says:

    Rex… We do not agree about a God and or the role of god… I believe men make their own situations more than God does…. This is a simplification of course… but I don’t recognize a “Godly cant to peoples affairs…… Having said that I am far less than sure about how God would play much of a role in “our world” the planet earth when one considers:

    The size of the visible Universe is (about 15 billion light years), there are surely many faint stars at great distances which we cannot see.”

    So if one believes in monotheism, that would make one dimension of God’s domain the size so that it would take 15 billion years going at the speed of 186,OOO miles per second… When one realizes that some planets and suns may not last 15 billion years… Well you get the idea…

    I respect religion and religious institutions as seekers of God’s ways and Godliness…including the better spirits of our beings…..

  48. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Thomas,

    This is not a religio blog, but just for your info I am a man of science but do not accept billions of light years theories, not yet atleast!
    When I come out of my house at night, I see a still concert of bright stars in the sky not more than 2oo metres away. Voltair said that if we did not have a God, we had to invent one in order for morality and ethics to be a part of our society. Kant confirmed that without the religion there can be no morality in a society. I agree with Kant that we are all born with a `geist(soul and mind) and were we to upgrade kant at todays knowledge about the human brain then we observe that the commnication of human brain with human heart takes place in both directions. The extent of the influence of the geist on our actions is not yet known; but it definitely has a major role. Read Kant if you have time.

    Mahee,
    I am the wrong address for you! I can only say that if your leader was a holy man and in your opinion was a messiha, he is now dead and I can assure you that he is going to stay dead for a very long time. Remember that Mohammad(pbuh) was the only Prophet of God who before his demise declared publicly that he has completed his mission, his task that God almighty had assigned to him.
    There is only ONE Islam not two! A muslim simply promises to follow the way of life as specified, but does not automaticaly attains the status of a muslim until God so commands it.

    Rex Minor

  49. Dronacharya Saudi Arabia Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    WE do not reply to cheapstakes like Magoo (and what an ugly name ! But Mr. Magoo was quite a character / cartoons). WE move on.

    Spike and Tyke are far superior than Magoo.

  50. Maggu India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    GOTTAM:”just to check the fraud.”
    .
    jhooth mat bol… you went to wish for release from your prison of opressive belief. Mata Vaishno will soon bring your wish to fruition. Keep remembering her. You even visited the hanuman temple and fed the monkeys. Mata Vaishno blesses you

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