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Two Nation Theory and Creation of Bangladesh

Raza Habib RajaThis article is not a “defense” or repudiation of the two nation theory (TNT). Rather it tries to critically evaluate the argument that creation of Bangladesh in fact proved that the two nation theory was not valid. Those who claim that the two nation theory has proven to be a failure cite creation of Bangladesh as an example. It is claimed that ethnic nationalism trumped religion and therefore the two nation theory has proven to be a failure. I do not intend to prove that the two nation theory is wrong or right but just evaluate it with reference to creation of Bangladesh.

Frankly speaking I am not a history expert and do not claim any command on minute details of partition and its various narratives. However, as a student of political thought and comparative politics, I have often been fascinated by the two nation theory. Now for someone who calls himself a “Pakistani Indian”, it may appear that I will be a staunch opponent of the “two nation” theory. The way, it is often interpreted is that Hindus and Muslims are two distinct nations who would have found it impossible to live together and therefore Muslims who were the minority at that time would need a separate politically autonomous state. I do oppose this version and I think that it is highly debatable. If being a Muslim is the criteria of a separate state then why stop at India? Why not also include all the Muslims of the world and merge them into one nation state?

We know such a thing is not possible and is in fact laughable. The two nation theory would start making sense if only we understand the fleeting concept of identity. We are not just Muslims, but are also have ethno linguistic identities which at times may be competing with each other and at times complimenting each other. Everything revolves around a complex phenomenon known as identity and in politics that is often the most important factor in mobilization. Identity itself may be constructed or at times may simply be something you are born with. Moreover, identity may be dormant and can become active. It is when an identity becomes active, political expression follows.

How a particular identity becomes active often depends on the perceived benefits as well as drawbacks associated with it. It also becomes active, if there is a perception that you are being victimized on the basis of that particular identity. Once an identity is activated, it can form various political expressions which range from political mobilization to demand greater rights to outright demand s for a separate nation state. What determines the exact form of political expression depends on many things. For example gender identity can form a political expression but it is not possible ( at least has not happened ever) for women to demand a separate country! Demand for equal pay and improved civil rights are expressed largely through civil society and do not aim to change the geographical and administrative structure of a particular country.

On the other hand ethnic identity can form various political expressions ranging from formation of political parties on ethnic lines to demands for a separate state. Ethnic nationalists can demand a separate state particularly when an ethnicity views that it is possible to secede and the secession will lead to better standard of living and greater rights. The demand for a separate nation state is also hugely dependent on actual geographical dispersion of the population belonging to that ethnicity. If there are geographical concentrations then the demand for secession is more likely compared to a situation where the ethnicity is evenly dispersed all over the country.

Religion like ethnicity is an identity though compared to ethnic identity is less “rigid”. It is generally said that religion is merely set of believes, but at least in political literature, it has always been considered much more than that. In fact, some have gone to the extent of calling religion of birth as a form of ethnic identity. Yes theoretically speaking it could be changed, but religious identity is a powerful identity particularly in circumstances where discrimination or perceived discrimination is conducted on religious lines.

Put simply religion can also be an effective political identity provided certain conditions are there. And like other identities, it can form a political expression of demanding a separate state.

Demand for Pakistan ( whether we consider it as an actual demand or as bargaining ploy by Jinnah) was a consequence of an activated political identity. There were incidences which activated the Muslim identity and Congress is equally responsible for that as much as the Muslim elites.

Like ethnicity, religion can be a politically potent factor leading to possible demands of a nation state. In Pakistan’s case Muslims were also concentrated in two geographical zones (present day Pakistan and Bangladesh). While a substantial number was also dispersed all over the country there is no denying of the fact that areas forming West Pakistan ( Present day Pakistan) and East Pakistan (Bangladesh) were Muslim majority areas.

It is true that ethnic identity on its own is often a stronger motivating factor though at the time of independence there were no mass movements demanding independence on ethnic lines. In fact if demand for a nation state is only justified on ethnic lines then India itself should have been divided into many parts as there are so many languages spoken there.

Moreover, the term “partition” is misleading because India has rarely been politically a single unit. Throughout its history, there was just a loose geographical continuity which has always enabled this land to be called India. Within this geographical unit, there have been various political configurations. The right question is not whether there should have been a “partition” but rather whether the areas coming under present day Pakistan and Bangladesh should have joined Indian federation ( as visualized by Congress) or not.

So there were in reality various identities emerging out of Indian subcontinent. There was a broader Indian identity, religious identities, and ethnic linguistic identities. In other words there have always been nations within a nation. And then there is a concept of hybrid identity. It is not important for many to be just Muslims but rather they want their religious freedom as well as their ethnic and cultural independence. So I may be Muslim but at the same time I would prefer that my Punjabi cultural freedom is also safeguarded.

When Bengali and Sindhi Muslims voted for Pakistan (after all let’s not forget that these two provinces clearly voted for Pakistan), the idea was not merely preservation of their religious freedom but a combination of both religious as well ethnic/cultural freedoms. Thus when Bengali Muslims (who were also geographically concentrated) voted for creation of Pakistan, it was also for the preservation of their Bengali identity along with religious identity.

The choice was to join Indian federation or join Pakistan. Those who voted for Pakistan joined Pakistan with the view that perhaps their ethnic and cultural freedom would be better safeguarded in Pakistan rather than India.

The reason why Bangladesh came into being is less to do with fallacy of two nation theory but more with how actually West Pakistan treated East Pakistanis. It is not the idea itself but the way Pakistan tried to over centralize and negate Bengali culture and their ethnic identity. Pakistan superimposed Urdu over Bengali and adopted a policy of sustained repression. Bengalis seceded mainly because of the way we treated them. The discrimination activated the Bengali nationalism and led to secession. But once again it was the hybrid identity of both Islam and Bengali ethnicity which dictated the choice of independence rather than merger with India. What had earlier prompted them to opt for Pakistan, once again led them to become an independent state.

The two nation theory would have been discarded IF Bengalis had opted to join India in 1971 rather than opting for going independent.

Personally I think history is yet to give its verdict about the two nation theory. We cannot just say that just because Bangladesh came into being therefore it is wrong.

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559 Responses to "Two Nation Theory and Creation of Bangladesh"

  1. kaalchakra United States Mozilla Firefox Ubuntu Linux says:

    yazid, I made a mistake, based on what my Siddiqui Deendari brother Dronacharya and Bengali brother Tajender had told us. Unless I am mistaken, they have themselves apologized to everyone for the error on their part. Truthful people are never afraid of acknwoledging any errors on their part. If HP’s claim of being a card-carrying member of the RSS was a similar error, it is no big deal. A small slip of the keyboard that could have occurred on any one’s computer.

  2. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Kaal,

    HP is a nice man as much as NC, CM, and FF and others. What was missing in the Eulogy of the most favourite regulars was about the commonalty in their character and the civility they conveyed. Some were stubbornly steadfast in their opinions and even emotional at times but remained polite as far as it was possible. The present participants even mock and criticise anyone who comes to the aid of the maverick.

    There are definitely deep rooted reasons which call for such a behaviour,but this is a separate subject. I am not here to learn history from history students but to understand what ticks in the minds of Pakistani columnists and journalists which is taking them gradualy away from the concerns and the priorities of the various ethnic groups.
    I have also tried to remove the misgivings about Islam from the deeds of muslims and even tried to give some biological explanation of peoples behaviour.

    Rex Minor

  3. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Accepted, but that would hold true for allegations and counter allegations for everyone. Is not it???

    :) :) :)

  4. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Kaal,
    In case you did not notice there are others who boast as well to represent themselves as members of RSS. Romain was the last one!

    This is something that the anglo saxons must have left in the sub-continent. GB stands for “Big Mouth” in french translation.

    Rex Minor

  5. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Rexie,

    Whom do u represent?

    Can you make your stand clear? I am just curious…

  6. Asoka India Safari iPad says:

    I never cease to be amazed by the Taliban scum’s ability to sound civilised and polite even while spouting murderous hate. This utterly cold and unfeeling barbarity!

  7. Asoka India Safari iPad says:

    yazid, do you need to ask? Rex is very obviously a card carrying member of the 2500 strong black Salafi gang who are the killer sleeper cells in cities of Germany. They are waiting for orders to ‘launch’ themselves into some Jihad somewhere or in their very own country.

  8. Asoka India Safari iPad says:

    Kaal, where has your deendari brother disappeared? Or does he now only write for NYT?. He never did apologise so please don’t manufacture alibis for him and for yourself.

  9. shimr choudhary United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Milestogo says:
    February 13, 2013 at 5:55 pm
    Arabs are jahil. Allah has sprayed jahalat in that region. That is why muhammed was sent

    correct… arabs were jahil not anymore.steve jab was arab,butrus ghalee was arab mohammed al baradee was arab.now indians are jahil.worship pns and drink gomutra.arabs have taalest and best buildings of world so the most beautiful women.inserrt shvlng in their a$$ atleast twice a day.

  10. Dark Knight Pakistan Chrome for iOS iPad says:

    @Kashif (February 13, 2013 at 12:22 am)

    Well ! That makes two things common between Pakistan and Bangladesh :
    (1) “both” are Muslim-majority nations.
    (2) Jamaat-e-Islami has the blood of “both” these nations on its hands.
    This means that Pakistan and Bangladesh are “two” nations, with “two” things in common.

    That’s an interesting conclusion to draw.

  11. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    MTG and others,

    Cut it off. People are taking you seriously and you are unnecessarily entering into the realm of provocations.

    I do not take you or the other riffrafs seriously, but people from your part of the world may. Most Indians are expert in polemics, ignorance of past history and have not the ability to appreciate the present nor have the foresight for the future. They have not the appeciation of what the arabs gave to the European continent at the time when people lived in our part of the world like barbarians, most were peasants but did not know how to till the land or irrigate it economicaly and were illetrates and few of the rich class were barons and land owners whose life was with courtisans and several mistresses, wine and sex on the menu and every now and then on the prowl to plunder others from their land and property.

    Inquisition is the term which comes to my mind which the cathlolic chuch embarked on against muslims and jews in Spain and the many crusades it proclaimed and organised against the so called Barbarian Arabs. The Byzantinian empire had to be defeated and the military advancement in the European lands had to continue until the time the Habsburger holy empire offered to pay the tributes to the Turkish sultan who then agreed to lift the siege at Wien.

    The inquisition of the christian church never stopped todate, within the christian community and outside, the jews and the muslims in the forefront. It was the last samurai Pope Bendict who under the influence of the evangelist christians of the USA and his intensive love of history books, reminded the muslims that the war of the clergy against Islam is stil on. It was King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia who paid a visit to the Vatican to remind the Benedict sixteen that he is also the head of the state and should use common sense if the intellect cannot keep up with his age and failing health and he should concentrate on reforming his institution as well as perform his missionary obligations to sprea the word of God in the world of non-believers. He warned him that the society will not survive as we are used to if God, the creator is no longer in the middle of our communities. The social gaps without the belief shall widen and so on. The Pope was invited to Istanbol, where he prayed together with the muslim Priest in the blue mosque, thereby taking a step towards reconciiation.

    The unending story goes on…

    Rex Minor

  12. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    MTG and others,

    Cut it off. People are taking you seriously and you are unnecessarily entering into the realm of provocations.

    I do not take you or the other riffrafs seriously, but people from your part of the world may. Most Indians are expert in polemics, ignorance of past history and have not the ability to appreciate the present nor have the foresight for the future. They have not the appeciation of what the arabs gave to the European continent at the time when people lived in our part of the world like barbarians, most were peasants but did not know how to till the land or irrigate it economicaly and were illetrates and few of the rich class were barons and land owners whose life was with courtisans and several mistresses, wine and sex on the menu and every now and then on the prowl to plunder others from their land and property.

    Inquisition is the term which comes to my mind which the cathlolic chuch embarked on against muslims and jews in Spain and the many crusades it proclaimed and organised against the so called Barbarian Arabs. The Byzantinian empire had to be defeated and the military advancement in the European lands had to continue until the time the Habsburger holy empire offered to pay the tributes to the Turkish sultan who then agreed to lift the siege at Wien.

    The inquisition of the christian church never stopped todate, within the christian community and outside, the jews and the muslims in the forefront. It was the last samurai Pope Bendict who under the influence of the evangelist christians of the USA and his intensive love of history books, reminded the muslims that the war of the clergy against Islam is stil on. It was King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia who paid a visit to the Vatican to remind the Benedict sixteen that he is also the head of the state and should use common sense if the intellect cannot keep up with his age and failing health and he should concentrate on reforming his institution as well as perform his missionary obligations to spread the word of God in the world of non-believers. He warned him that the society will not survive as we are used to if God, the creator is no longer in the middle of our communities. The social gaps without the belief shall widen and so on. The Pope was invited to Istanbol, where he prayed together with the muslim Priest in the blue mosque, thereby taking a step towards reconciiation.

    The unending story goes on…

    Rex Minor

  13. kaalchakra United States Mozilla Firefox Ubuntu Linux says:

    Rex, you bring a much-needed, fascinating and powerful ‘internationalist’ dimension to our rather narrow (and often narrow-minded) discussions here. Thank you.

    This seamless, muti-threaded tapestry of global and local progressive consciences represented by you and Indian Muslims (whether one agrees with them or not) is the most fruitful and wonderful force.

    —————–

    But if it is ok with you, of necessity, I am going to force the discussion down to a narrower base again. That is where ultimately ‘rubber meets the road’.

    Rex, the uncomfortable (to some) fact is, our Hindu friends have historically been accused of lacking certain key bodily appendages. So if a few of them now take to boasting about being “RSS members”, we might want offer our sincere sympathies.

    Although any definitive conclusions must await further study, we may be looking at another aspect of the so-called TNT. Concerned not so much about whether TNT is true or not, I am personally fascinated merely by the evidence.

    —————–

    The BEST exposition of this difference was once made by Tajender/shimr choudhary. He argued that despite the extraordinary and unique challenges faced by them, Indian Muslims are brave minorities who would take no nonsense from the Hindu majority. Contrast that with the Hindus in Kashmir/Pakistan etc, who for all the rights Islamic societies give to them, are ready to cut and run at the first opportunity, perhaps more out of malice than need.

    Is that really true? I can’t say for certain, but tajender’s thesis is interesting, with a ring of truth. One can plausibly argue that strong faith in Allah, and in His promise of victory, can – at the level of groups – instil fearlessness and ‘spunk’ of the spirit that everyone’s worshipping a different million plus godlets (along with the cow) cannot.

    That fundamental difference in the ‘spirit’ of large groups, and not in their individual members’ eating or non-eating of cow itself, that Jinnah refered to in his famous, though muddled delineation of the TNT.

    A Muslim may accept it or reject it, but a Hindu finds it very hard to “get it” (for simply ‘moral’ reasons – whatver his or her concept of morality is).

  14. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    If Allah would have existed he would not have allowed people to create Sunnis, Shias, Ahmdeiyas, Khojas, barelvis, deobandis. Moreover (s/he) would not have created the sea of difference between male and female. S/he would have stopped brutal in killings between “Muslims”.

    Thankfully a plural society offers good point of views. Just for your eyes only

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDqfzS7Bbo

  15. Romain United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Rexie,

    I dont boast. I am a member. Its merely a fact.

  16. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    thanks Romain you do not make false claims like Kaal does…

  17. Romain United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Kaal mian,

    “Rex, the uncomfortable (to some) fact is, our Hindu friends have historically been accused of lacking certain key bodily appendages”

    Are you by any chance referring to prepuce? We are definitely not missing it – thank god :)

  18. Romain United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Dear Kaal mian,

    Like HP etc have pointed out you do tend to mislead facts and that too quite blantanly.

    The Kashmiri Hindus were definitely given a right – convert or get killed. Like all sane humans they decided to reject it and not avail of the “Islamic hospitality”

    Incidently, this islamic benevolence was also in display during Aurangzeb’s time when Guru Teg Bahadur stepped up and the rest is history.

    So your bakwas, under the guise of intellect, which I find diminishing, perhaps based on the lack of the pill, is just that -bakwas.

    The problem with your types is that you twist and bend facts to suit an argument and/or agenda.

    But what i admire in you is that be it chowk, PTH or other Paki websites, you are consistent with your bakwas and you are not afraid to stick to it inspite stark facts to the contrary. The other aspect I like about you is that you do not change your nik on any of them.

    Perhaps this is the natural consequence of an unnatural state of affairs.

    best regards

    Romain

  19. Romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Dear KaaL mian,

    why use a nick like Kaalchakra? Are you trying to somehow you are somehow a significance of Kaal yug? :)

  20. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Kaal,

    As I said earlier, you have the ability to analyse instantly and the intuition to read more or less the mind of those who pen their views even when they do not articulate them. I see a bigger picture but do not ignore completely the forces of evil which exist at local and regional levels in every society and in all parts of the world.

    I am not from south east, nor do I feel myself attached to any labels that muslims are being given or those that they are giving to themselves. The key message of Mohammad(pbuh), the prophet of God was to non muslims that you keep your faith and let me keep mine. And I am a strong follower of this! I am not a preacher, but a man of science, nor do I require any ones interpretation of my faith be it an Ayatullah or the great mufti of Istanbol or the raet scholar of Al Azhar.

    You are right that the religion of Islam gives a unique stregnth to the individual born as a muslim, and has the custom made geist( as all other humans as well) which guides him or her in all facets of life to the age of a man with concise messages of wisdom and vernunft and definite commandments which I revere in full. Though shall not worship any other God but the ONE GOD and Mohammad(pbuh) is the prophet of God. Though shall not kill nor fear any one but God alone. Muslims must show compassion and love for the next one and help those who have not what other have and so on….. This gives a collective resonsibility for the one and the group and all. Fear is human weakness and can turn into a paranoia, an people start reacting irrationaly. The indiviual who blows himself as well the Amrican power who are dronig individuals and children, despite keeping many in prisons and torturing thousands others.

    The question of victory etc. is complex one! Who has won the war in Afghanistan, the Americans or the Talbans? Who won the ww2, the germans or the Allied powers? If you ask me than I say that the humanity looses every time there is war. Popl wh survive are cheered and those who die are mostly forgotten. I fear to dig the land around my dwellings in case I find an unexploded bomb or a body of a dead soldier.

    I was not aware of what the RSS means until the term appeared several times in endless debates. I have nothing against nationalism, and even admire those who are conservatives and want to protect the values that they consider prcious for them. However, when the Nationalism of one group encroaches on the rights of other groups then it becomes a negative force with a chemical reaction which are usualy destructive for all. There are political organisation and parties on the right and on the extreme right such as Neo Nazi party in Germany or the liberals in Netherlands which usual attract lot of attention from the lawmen and the media but do not always live up to their reputation and get cut down by a hot headed a straight individual.

    The minorities in all parts of the world are always at a disadvantage versus the majorites of the land when their rights are challenged, denegrated and forcefully violated. A democracy therefore which is built on one vote for one person and not based on proportional representation is the inherent weakness of the democratic system.

    There is no divine law to follow the democracy model practiced in the anglo saxon world of one vote for one person or in Germany where a person has two votes to cast. Both Indian and Pakistan democracies fail the basic criterion of the term ‘Democracy’ but this is not for a foreigner to determine.

    I do not know what Mr Jinnah meant about the dinner culture of the Indian Hindus. Personly I admire those who are vegeterians and do not eat Beef or other meats, which in my view is more natural and shows respect for other lives. I find it more distasteful to learn about what the chinese eat or the japanese who start cutting the whale when they are alive and when I see them eating raw fish or others who eat stakes rarely grilled or even the tartar canibal steak.

    Rex Minor

  21. Romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Brilliant!!!

    Now Rexie has blessed Kaal mian with ESP and Kaal Mian is bz stroking Rexie. Aha!!! I now see where this is headed (oops!! I have ESP too)

  22. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Kaal,

    Good news for your fellow Indians. South Africa statistics place india in second place now in rapes culture! Every seven minutes a rape is being committed instead of every 23 minutes in India.

    CNN is making a major development in women rights which are being violated and are coming to surface in a second country now. And guess what who is appearing on the CNN to answer Christian Amanpur questions? As in the case of India, a women is appearing to explain the phenomina wh happens to be from the majority political ruling party.

    India must invent a powerful God if they do not want to obey the God of Islam, and follow the advice of Voltair, that the society needs a God for the ethics and morality of the people.

    Rex Minor

  23. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Rexie

    quoted “Muslims must show compassion and love for the next one and help those who have not what other have and so on….. This gives a collective resonsibility for the one and the group and all. ”

    Just answer me why Shias are butchered on a daily basis by fellow Muslim Sunni brothers. Ahmediyas are not even considered Muslims. Ahmedinijad is hurled with shoes by Arabs in Cairo.

    Is it brotherhood among Muslims? ( all claiming to be true Muslims and claiming others to be taking a wrong path!!!)

  24. kaalchakra United States Mozilla Firefox Ubuntu Linux says:

    Rex, it is hard to find a generous friend from whom one can also learn much. You are both – a friend and a teacher.

    —————–

    Romain and HP

    Dear RSS members, if it helps you, you are most welcome to remain upset with me. However, I was articulating the (publicly) stated view of a Bengali Muslim brother – Mr Shimr Chowdhry. If you do not find that line of thinking relevant to visualizing the terrain of TNT in Bengal and elsewhere, kindly ignore it.

    You honorable members of RSS can help a lot by deciding between yourselves what you believe, broadly, the basic nature of Islamic societies like Kashmir is, and if asking if that might have anything to do with TNT.

    PS: The following was really good, and appearing in close proximity to references to various pills, elicited a chuckle :)

    “Perhaps this is the natural consequence of an unnatural state of affairs.”

  25. Romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Dear Kaal Mian,

    I am not at all upset with you. I was merely stating a observed fact.

    I would like to apologize if I upset you. :)

    best regards

    Romin

    P.S. Do keep up with the bakwas it makes us RSS wallahs look very good indeed.

  26. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    One the biggest Islamic myth is that Allah wanted kuffar to keep their faith.

    Allah would never want kuffar to stay kuffar – Allah is no street kid that he can’t get done what he wants. Allah is very powerful and dangerous – he is very clear on that matter – convert to the best religion that Allah has chosen or Allah will skin you alive.

    Allah had already evaluated all the religions and come to conclusion that Islam was best and Arabic was best language – that’s the reason Allah chose an Arabic name for himself.

    “Keep your faith” is a corrupted verse.. Arabic jahalat is not fully removed yet.

  27. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    Once Arabic jahalat is fully removed, Arabic genes will shine and there will be Steve jobs everywhere in middle-east. Apple will move to Mecca.

  28. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    Kaal’s work is for future Muslims. Current Muslims are immune.

  29. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    MTG,

    If you are able to accurately interpret what Kuffar means then you have come of age. And if you keep on repeating certain terms and sentences more often then usual, it is time that you go to the doctor for endoscopic investigations.

    Rex Minor

  30. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Rexie

    quoted “Muslims must show compassion and love for the next one and help those who have not what other have and so on….. This gives a collective responsibility for the one and the group and all. ”

    Just answer me why Shias are butchered on a daily basis by fellow Muslim Sunni brothers. Ahmediyas are not even considered Muslims. Ahmedinijad is hurled with shoes by Arabs in Cairo.

    Is it brotherhood among Muslims? ( all claiming to be true Muslims and claiming others to be taking a wrong path!!!)

  31. shimr choudhary United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Milestogo says:
    February 14, 2013 at 5:41 am
    Once Arabic jahalat is fully removed, Arabic genes will shine and there will be Steve jobs everywhere in middle-east. Apple will move to Mecca

    i think more about hindu jihalat.for one thousand arabs were source of knowledge not europe.vedic period was nothing but jihalat like today.

  32. Asoka India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    “steve jab was arab,butrus ghalee was arab mohammed al baradee was arab.now indians are jahil.worship pns and drink gomutra.arabs have taalest and best buildings of world so the most beautiful women.inserrt shvlng in their a$$ atleast twice a day.”
    .
    Steve Jobs NEVER met with his Syrian father and followed Buddhist and Hindu teachings in his life. He was raised a Christian. His biological father runs a casino in Nevada. Very Islamic! Now go claim him as your own
    .
    Boutros Ghali is a coptic christian, so away from jahalat
    .
    Arab towers are designed by foreigners and built by foreigners. Arabs never learned anything but camel driving.
    .
    If arab women are the most beautiful, you should marry a sack covered in black cloth.
    .
    If you had gone to school, you would learn to spell. So do it now, learn to read and write, it could take you out of jahalat too.
    .
    You folks are so desperate that you even steal dead people to create a fictional history. Muslims haven’t had a hero in 600 years so your desperation is quite understandable.

  33. Asoka India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Rex Minor:”had to continue until the time the Habsburger holy empire offered to pay the tributes to the Turkish sultan who then agreed to lift the siege at Wien.”
    .
    So the Islamic hordes have been at this extortion game for centuries now? Explains a lot of things…following the leader.

  34. Asoka India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Kaal:”Rex, it is hard to find a generous friend from whom one can also learn much. You are both – a friend and a teacher.”
    .
    Valentine’s day love fest rolls on. But Valentine is Kuffar…. so is the sin of Lut

  35. heavy_petting United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Jaalchakra,
    .
    “But he has a reason to be upset. He wishes to say something, although does not appear to be quite sure, what is making him upset…and all of us are used to children who get upset for a while.”
    .
    Jaali, you do not appear to be quite sure what is making me “upset”. Okay, my fault, forgive me for forgetting that sometimes one needs nothing less than a headbutt to get through the cranial thick skin. Fine, I will make it easy for you, this is what I said to Zainulabideen:
    .
    “Jamaat-e-Islami does have the blood of the Bangladeshi nation in its hands. The sufferings of the Bangladeshis were real and painful and do not require certification by anyone.”
    .
    Why did I say this to Zainul? Because through a little research even a goofball like you would have realized that Jamaat-e-Islami and its terror network in 1971 are now the most emotional issue for most Bangladeshis. I don’t claim to be the resident expert on that country, but articles like these (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-Central/2013/0213/Massive-protest-movement-emerges-against-Islamists-in-Bangladesh ) in the Christian Science Monitor and elsewhere (httpcolondoubleslashwwwdotnytimesdotcom/2013/02/13/world/asia/politics-in-bangladesh-jolted-by-huge-protestsdothtml?_r=0, httpcolondoubleslashwwwdotforbesdotcomslashsites/worldviews/2013/02/13/the-female-factor-bangladesh-protests-break-boundaries/) tell me that hundreds of thousands of young Bangladeshis have taken to streets as we speak demanding harsher sentence on the Jamaat leaders already convicted of committing mass murder in 1971.
    .
    What was your response to my post?
    .
    “HP, most of us have no stake in this debate. We simply trust the Great Bose Family who are all established and respected historians. Had there been an iota of truth in your allegations, Sugata, Ayesha, Sarmila would have acknowledged it by now.”
    .
    Jaali, do you realize what kind of buffoonery this is? Not only do you trample the strong and justified sensitivities of a Bangladeshi by saying something like,
    .
    “Zainu, Let’s leave it at that. Some people believe that Jamaat-e-Islami preaches and practices violence, while others believe it doesn’t. There is however, no signficant support at all for the thesis of Jamaat-e-Islami being a violent, inhuman or anti-human organization in the works of celebrated Bengali or Bengal-related historians – Ayesa, Sarmila, and Sugata Bose, each of whom has studied related events extensively.”
    .
    and Chote Miyan complements that with his own unique contribution,
    .
    “I don’t know about Jamaat and as you have expertly cited the renowned Bose family, I am more confused about who has blood on their hands.” ,
    .
    for some reason you also drag your pet peeve the “Bose family” into it, as if it was the foremost duty of Sugata Bose and his wife to write their Ph.D. theses on the atrocities committed by Jamaat-e-Islami in Bangladesh.
    .
    Jaali, all of the above made me appear “upset” but in reality I am not. So let’s be friends again. But I humbly request that if you have “no stake in any of these” and no knowledge, the least you can do, perhaps in solidarity with arguably the worst sufferers of genocidal rape and killing in the last 50 years, is to keep your big mouth shut.

  36. heavy_petting United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    “South Africa statistics place india in second place now in rapes culture! …India must invent a powerful God if they do not want to obey the God of Islam, and follow the advice of Voltair, that the society needs a God for the ethics and morality of the people.”
    .
    Rex Minor, let me be frank and clear, Hindus do not accept Muhammad because he slept with a minor. When you can satisfactorily explain why Muhammad had sex with a minor, Sex Minor, Hindus will accept him. They will then add Mo’s little god also to the pantheon. his first duty will be to bring tea and biscuit for Na-Iti Na-Iti that KC talked about.

  37. MilesToGo United States Safari Mac OS says:

    too much mysticism is not good, Steve Jobs would know it first hand, stupid reverence can be killing…

  38. Mohan United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Romain,

    ” Are you by any chance referring to prepuce? We are definitely not missing it – thank god”
    I just could not stop laughing after reading this. :)

  39. Asoka India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Hindus shamelessly worship stone idols and penises and will continue to do so for eternity. Centuries of persecution, torture and murder did not convince us otherwise. Nor will there be any ‘final word’ for Hindus putting a full stop to all new thinking or welcoming an individual with new thought.
    .
    Some people here should think about the fragile foundation of “god’s final word for all eternity”. There were no witnesses to the receiving of the ‘final word’ and the ‘final word’ suited the contemporary needs of the messenger every time he needed it. The ‘final word’ also came in easy installments when needed.
    .
    Quite a coincidence? or just blessing from the almighty who was so puny that he wanted to reward the messenger for carrying his message?

  40. shimr choudhary United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Asoka/mtg

    jahil ashoke arabs built libraries and universities frm baghdad to ordoba to india to cairo and timbaktoon.can u bunch of idiots give the name of any library built by your crooks.u only manucture bhagwans and fool the people.islam has produced thousands of scientists and philosophers of very high order.u people are mediocare and boasters.read omar khayyam,ibn sina and ibn rush.u will know what a big idiot u are.

  41. shimr choudhary United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Steve Jobs NEVER met with his Syrian father and followed Buddhist and Hindu teachings in his life. He was raised a Christian. His biological father runs a casino in Nevada. Very Islamic! Now go claim him as your own
    .

    hindu has no teaching except cheating like sai baba.budhdhism is nemesis of hinduism.he died as muslim he was born as muslim.he was buried as muslim.budhdhist teaching is very close to islamic teaching so he was showing himself as budhhdist.
    barak obama was born muslim,he became big because of islamic value system.900000 attended his oath ceremony ,so steve jab.you were claiming arab now say muslims.dont forget u are cleaning their shoes and selling india since century.

    ee now pakistan.world snooker champion is paki,so squash,in hockey and cricket they are better/equal to us.in footbal many many muslims were leading european footbal team.dinara safina and his brother both muslim,tennis champion.did uproduced anyone to their grade.

    after partition 2 people got noble prices in science and both are muslim,one in physics other in economics.
    u people are boasters and liars.hate spewing people can never be tue intellectual.there are 1001 innovative inventions by muslims.

  42. shimr choudhary United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Asoka says:
    February 14, 2013 at 11:46 am
    Hindus shamelessly worship stone idols and penises and will continue to do so for eternity. Centuries of persecution, torture and murder did not convince us otherwise

    that is hindu is samaj not religion.it is orgnize system of slavery.worship money and jehalat.

  43. Asoka India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    shmir ch:”Asoka/mtg

    jahil ashoke arabs built libraries and universities frm baghdad to ordoba to india to cairo and timbaktoon.”
    .
    How many centuries ago was that? How many libraries did they burn? Timbaktoo? How many libraries do they have now?

  44. Asoka India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    shmir ch:”budhdhist teaching is very close to islamic teaching so he was showing himself as budhhdist.”
    .
    Tell that to your Taliban friends who blew up the Bamiyan Buddhas… So, since buddhist teaching is close to Islamic… do you follow buddhism too?
    .
    By the way, are you a stand up comedian? You’ll do well there

  45. Asoka India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    shmir ch:”2 people got noble prices in science and both are muslim,one in physics other in economics.”
    .
    Now to win ‘noble prices’ we have masters of literature like you. Since your parents were probably too miserable to provide you an education and your mulla had read a grand total of one book, let me further your education as my good deed for the day on this holy day of Saint Valentine. NO muslim ever won a Nobel for Economics.
    .
    Are you an Ahmedi? Abdus Salam is not a muslim. Or do you consider Ahmedis muslim? you dont believe in khatm-e-nabuwat?
    .
    There are ten muslim Nobel winners if you count Abdus Salam as Muslim. Since you are the son of ahmedi parents we will call him muslim.
    .
    6 won the Nobel peace prize. 2 are Yasser Arafat and Anwar Saadat who got it for selling Palestinian interests to Jews of Israel.
    .
    Mohammed Younis got it for microfinance. Now microfinance is giving loans to the poor at high interest rates. If you do not consider Riba a sin, be proud of this Nobel.
    .
    Mohamed El Baradei got it for stopping nuclear proliferation, essentially to say that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction so that Bush could attack Iraq. Be proud of this Nobel
    .
    Shirin Ebadi of Iran and Tawakel Karman of Yemen got it for championing women’s rights in their countries. Shirin has had to run away from her country ruled by Islam wallas and Karman now says she is a citizen of the world.
    .
    2 Muslims have won the prize for literature. One is Naguib Mahfuz of Egypt who was stabbed in the neck by Islamists for his views on Islam and for defending Salman Rushdie. The other is Orhan Pamuk of Turkey who describes himself as a Cultural Muslim who associates the historical and cultural identification with the religion while not believing in a personal connection to God. Incidentally, he also lives with Kiran Desai who is a practicing Hindu and claims that he gets spiritual sustenance from her.
    .
    2 Muslims have won the prize for sciences: Abdus Salam of Pakistan who is your brother in the ahmedi faith and Ahmed Zewail of Egypt.
    .
    Hindus are of course penis worshippers, cow urine drinkers, pig eaters, masters of orgies, worshippers of money, brainless twits etc.
    .
    Lets talk about the followers of the final message and their heroes.

  46. Asoka India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Shmir ch: You forgot Neil Armstrong who heard the adhaan on the moon and converted.
    .
    Also, Barack Obama your muslim hero has made same sex marriage legal in the US and allowed homosexuality in the US Army.
    .
    I am happy Shmir, that you dont take the qhuraan literally and dont think that the tribe of lut were sinners. He is a great favorite with the homosexual crowd and as a muslim i am sure he is your hero too. Are you homosexual? Is your love for obama due to your inclination?
    .
    One thing i am impressed with is the love that brothers in Ummah are displaying for each other.. we have shmir loving Obama, Abdus Salam etc… and of course we have the great deluge of love that KAAL and REX MINOR have for each other.
    .
    This is touching…. i have tears in my eyes. Happy Valentines Day!

  47. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Mr Chaudry,

    Not many individuals can compete with PTH hindu bloggers in a pissing contest. But like all human species Indians have the potential to learn. There is a tribe in the amazon, not long ago discovered who worship the real human penis and regard it as the creator. Both men and woman decorate mens pnises with flowers and dance around them as if they are worshipping them. No one can or should object to them practicing a primitive ritual which they do so in innocent ignorance.

    Indian hindus on the other hand have progressed and mostly are dressed up today other than their unclean sadhus standing on one leg or their masses who run around in millions unclean and naked and run towards the river. They have learnt that cleanliness is a virtue without realising that the muslims obligatory prayers are no more than to clean their body reguarly at least five time a day and to renew their soul from the influence of the evil thoughts.

    Despite the fact that there are schools and universities in India, they are somehow attached to the cult of ancient human species who lived in caves in complete ignorance and with natural but regressive traditions and customs prior to the appearance of scriptures to enlighten the human race. They have not learnt the universal manners of a hand shake with the next, I guess not even within families and have been recently expose to the world, running around like wolves within their villages and highways looking around for a weaker prey to make an onion of them.

    Hindu children are not brought up as the believers of the 10 key commandments. They are brought up free of restrictions and are not admonished for fabricating lies so as to orientate them with the ethics and morals which will be required of them in their adult life. Yesterday I watched a native of south Africa who admitted raping some one ten years ago and was in repent, saying that this has been the norm among the blacks and has been part of their ‘environment’ for a young man to touch, play and pounce on the opposite sex withot being admonished or reprimanded in the community. In other words he was accusing his community as a whole to accept such a culture which he now is ashamed of causing injury to his victim. So now starts the learning among blacks which started in the near east thousands of years ago.

    India has had a good start because of the invaders moghuls who allowed them to renew and rebuild temples and statues, as well as their inenious in creating the Kama Sutra encyclpedia on love and Dharma befor sigmund Freud as well keeping more or less their worship of statues with the view perhaps that the devaluation process is more suitable for non muslims than the revolutionary forces.

    And while I am typing I notice n the cable TV that even Dr Manmohan Singh has learnt to shake hands of the visiting French President and even accompanying women whereas he did not with the USA President?

    Rex Minor

  48. Asoka India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Rex Minor: Hindus bring up thinking humans not trained puppies who spout one book and are not allowed to think beyond one book on pain of death.
    .
    Anyways, people who want to worship and emulate the life of a man who consummated marriage with a nine year old shouldn’t pontificate on rape. In any civilized society of today he would have been imprisoned for life and the key thrown away.
    .
    Also, people who think ‘women of the right’ hand can be raped at will by divine sanction as written in the ‘final message’ should not teach others about rape.
    .
    And, of course you know what people who covet their daughters-in-law should not do too…

  49. heavy_petting United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Sex Minor
    .
    Most Indians have no problem with the Islamic god (he really is a cute little thing!) But they are waiting for a satisfactory answer why Mohammad had sex with a 9 year old when he was 54 himself. This gives yawks to most Indians. So sex minor, India is waiting.

  50. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Kaal,

    It is very difficult for many not to understand that I do not communicate with those who are under the influence of the Evil. There is nothing prsonal, this is just my way of life to avoid Evil, and when I do repond I do so at the time of my choosing and only when the little gnomes angels tell me that the Evil is no longer in the vicinity.

    Rex Minor

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