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Pak Tea House » Pakistan-India Peace Process » The absence of trust

The absence of trust

By Saad Hafiz:

The recent veiled warnings and tough talk between India and Pakistan has largely abated. And not too soon, as hope was evaporating that the two nations might have, at long last, realised the futility of prolonged confrontation and might therefore give peace a chance. There is no getting around the fact that the two neighbours consider each other arch enemies. This antagonism is not only on a state-to-state level. The people of the two countries also share the feeling.

Politicians on both sides, preoccupied with their own elections and re-elections and under pressure by internal lobby groups, added to the inflamed atmosphere, and their own rhetorical strategies circumvented meaningful communication between the two nations. Their initial reaction fed into the domestic demand to whip up xenophobia in order to stay in power. The recent tensions confirm how easily the atmosphere between the two countries and peoples can be manipulated from peace to war. Diplomacy that maintains an uneasy co-existence is quickly replaced by one that approaches the emotionally and vengefully nationalistic. Matters that should have been sorted out between the two militaries under existing processes and procedures were placed in the public domain, probably by elements inimical to the peace process.
The problem of the organisational relationship between a larger and smaller power plays a role in the confrontation. India is frustrated that in its relationship with Pakistan, its overwhelming military and economic superiority is not counting for much. Pakistan on the other hand, continues its obsessive pursuit of ‘parity’ with India and a pathological refusal to accept any status of inferiority. In the words of the South-Asia scholar Stephen Cohen: “One of the most important puzzles of India-Pakistan relations is not why the smaller Pakistan feels encircled and threatened, but why the larger India does. It would seem that India, seven times more populous than Pakistan and five times its size, and which defeated Pakistan in 1971, would feel more secure. This has not been the case and Pakistan remains deeply embedded in Indian thinking. There are historical, strategic, ideological, and domestic reasons why Pakistan remains the central obsession of much of the Indian strategic community, just as India remains Pakistan’s.”

There are powerful hardliners in the two countries with sizeable constituencies of their own, dogmatically committed to the policy of enmity. These constituencies advocate retrogressive and religion-based policies at home and hostile relations across the borders. They have over time refined a mindset that prompts their supporters to talk of teaching each other a lesson. Both governments should have taken steps to curb and contain these constituencies. Neither government has so far demonstrated any desire to do so. Both governments should recognise that the resolution of outstanding issues rests squarely on them. People-to-people contacts can create a favourable climate, but they cannot by themselves pave the way for peace.

India believes that Pakistan is unwilling to genuinely end its politics of confrontation with India, an integral part of which is the over-assertion of its Islamic identity. This is reflected in the propagation of its jihadi mentality, the nurturing of extremist religious groups involved in terrorism, and the political domination of the military in the governance of the country. The ‘war-crowd’ in India sees a permanent reason and a great opportunity to invade Pakistan and finish it forever. They feel India needs no excuse to invade Pakistan, since it has an excuse every day, and Pakistan keeps giving India more reasons without interruption. Pakistan’s failure to take any substantive step in the last four years to try those responsible for the Mumbai terrorist attack and the unwillingness of its leadership to accept that terrorism remains a crucial outstanding issue in India-Pakistan relations indicates that the nexus between the jihadi groups and political and military power centres in Pakistan will not be easily broken.

India should look to hopeful signs that the powerful ‘India-centric’ Pakistani military has concluded that persistent hostility towards India and an obsession with Kashmir has done great damage to Pakistan. This may allow Indian leaders to decide that some normalisation with Pakistan is necessary for India to play a wider role in the world. This is the basis for a truce between the two countries, but not the basis for a peace. For that to occur, there will have to be more profound changes in their deeper relationship, for they will remain two states allergic to each other without the development of strong economic, cultural and political ties.

If the examples of the countries that have established durable peace after prolonged confrontation are any guide, a willingness to concede ground is critical to establishing peace. The rhetoric of hollow nationalism without a willingness to honourably concede substantial ground is not adequate for peace-making. People have to be psychologically prepared that durable peace is not achievable without substantial concessions. They have to be made aware that the concessions made would be in the long-term interest of the two countries. Until this is done, a sound basis for trust and conflict-resolution cannot be created.

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90 Responses to "The absence of trust"

  1. ExWho India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    saad writes:

    QUOTE:

    “India should look to hopeful signs that the powerful ‘India-centric’ Pakistani military has concluded that persistent hostility towards India and an obsession with Kashmir has done great damage to Pakistan.

    This may allow Indian leaders to decide that some normalisation with Pakistan is necessary for India to play a wider role in the world.”

    QUOTE END

    But…

    1) Islam has a permanent-persistent hostility to hindus and hinduism. What about that? Extermination of hinduism is the long-term goal of islam.

    2) Pakistani military is known for its lies, double-dealings and temporary-gain attitudes. “Pakistani military has concluded…” but only temporarily.

    3) India does not wish to play (and should not aim to play) a wider role in the world.

    4) No matter who wins in the “pak army vs. pak terrorists” internal battle – the winner will aim his guns at India and hindus. Islam dictates that. Islam compels muslims to exterminate hindus and hinduism.

  2. Amin United Kingdom Safari iPad says:

    @ EX WHO: It is not Islam that governs relations or the trust deficit between India and Pakistan but a certain word
    called KASHMIR. Everything stems from that. Funny how you can forget that.

  3. Zahid Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    exWho,

    I suppose you did read the bit about Indians obsessing about Pakistan and then forgot it. For some Indians (such as yourself) Pakistan and Islam are synonymous. So your prejudice about one would necessarily affect your opinion of the other. I believe you have the wrong end of the stick here.

    Pakistan is not the threat for India, it is regionalism. Pakistan would not break India. Solve Kashmir issue there would be no long term problems left between us.

  4. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    Islam is rising in Kashmir – cosmic rays from the desert have finally reached Kashmir –

    http://t.co/vPEAEA02

  5. tajender United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Dr. Qadri may be a scoundrel, an agent of this or that power, a sort of Pakistani James Bond or a Barelvi Santa Claus, but he set in motion something much bigger than him and his backers: the awakening that generals and politicians are both after power and both are ever willing to break or bend laws in their favour. That the choice before the people of Pakistan is not between military and civilian rule, it is between two dictatorial and anti-democracy mindsets

  6. wonderer India Safari Mac OS says:

    Kashmir is always mentioned as the core issue. Agreed. How do you solve this problem? First of all, Pakistani people must know the truth about the problem. They do not know the truth; they only know the falsehood they are told. Let every Pakistani find the answer to the following question:
    1) Why there are no elected representatives from Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK) in the country’s Parliament?
    2) Why the citizens of POK are not Pakistani nationals?
    3) Why no one listens to Pakistani arguments in the whole world?
    4) Why no free and fair elections held in POK?
    5) Why Pakistan needs to lobby its J&K case in USA only through an illegal agent (Dr. Fai)?
    6) Why Pakistan murdered the UN resolution about Plebiscite in J&K by refusing to comply with its provisions, but still harps on its implementation by India?
    7) Why the J&K problem is misrepresented even in its official web site?
    8) Why Pakistan needs terrorism to achieve what it desires?
    9) Why Pakistan desires what it does not deserve?
    10) Why Pakistan interferes with the governance in J&K by an elected government?
    11) Why Pakistan cannot behave like a civilized nation?
    After you have found the answers to these questions you must spread the word for the benefit of your brothers and sisters. This is the way to solve the problem.
    Pakistan insists on a solution as demanded by it on pain of a thousand cuts. This will never happen.

  7. Amin United Kingdom Safari iPad says:

    @ Wonderer: Your shallow reasoning is as flawed as your puerile questions. Why don’t we have a Plebiscite in Kashmir according to the UN Resolution? What are you afraid of?

  8. romain United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Amin Mian,

    Your question shows your brilliant dept of knowledge!!!

    The UN resolution for plebicite calls for withdrawal of all Paki forces from ALL OF KASHMIR BEFORE A PLEBICITE. After the withdrawal then it calls for the INDIANS to HOLD THE PLEBICITE.

    So read up the resolution or listen to your own Paki commentators. I suggest youtube.

  9. romain United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Saad Sb,

    Me thinks you wrote this to elicit more response ?

  10. tajender United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    http://ca.mc1221.mail.yahoo.com/mc/welcome?.tm=1359992235#_pg=showMessage&fid=Inbox&mid=2_0_0_1_10551925_AHPTimIAAP4mUQ8XiA6RoEKW6CM&fromId=&.rand=1611527825&.jsrand=1245419

  11. saad Canada Internet Explorer Windows says:

    (Full article)

    The absence of trust by Saad Hafiz

    The recent veiled warnings and tough talk between India and Pakistan has largely abated. And not too soon, as hope was evaporating that the two nations might have, at long last, realised the futility of prolonged confrontation and might therefore give peace a chance. There is no getting around the fact that the two neighbours consider each other arch enemies. This antagonism is not only on a state-to-state level. The people of the two countries also share the feeling.

    Politicians on both sides, preoccupied with their own elections and re-elections and under pressure by internal lobby groups, added to the inflamed atmosphere, and their own rhetorical strategies circumvented meaningful communication between the two nations. Their initial reaction fed into the domestic demand to whip up xenophobia in order to stay in power. The recent tensions confirm how easily the atmosphere between the two countries and peoples can be manipulated from peace to war. Diplomacy that maintains an uneasy co-existence is quickly replaced by one that approaches the emotionally and vengefully nationalistic. Matters that should have been sorted out between the two militaries under existing processes and procedures were placed in the public domain, probably by elements inimical to the peace process.

    The problem of the organisational relationship between a larger and smaller power plays a role in the confrontation. India is frustrated that in its relationship with Pakistan, its overwhelming military and economic superiority is not counting for much. Pakistan on the other hand, continues its obsessive pursuit of ‘parity’ with India and a pathological refusal to accept any status of inferiority. In the words of the South-Asia scholar Stephen Cohen: “One of the most important puzzles of India-Pakistan relations is not why the smaller Pakistan feels encircled and threatened, but why the larger India does. It would seem that India, seven times more populous than Pakistan and five times its size, and which defeated Pakistan in 1971, would feel more secure. This has not been the case and Pakistan remains deeply embedded in Indian thinking. There are historical, strategic, ideological, and domestic reasons why Pakistan remains the central obsession of much of the Indian strategic community, just as India remains Pakistan’s.”

    There are powerful hardliners in the two countries with sizeable constituencies of their own, dogmatically committed to the policy of enmity. These constituencies advocate retrogressive and religion-based policies at home and hostile relations across the borders. They have over time refined a mindset that prompts their supporters to talk of teaching each other a lesson. Both governments should have taken steps to curb and contain these constituencies. Neither government has so far demonstrated any desire to do so. Both governments should recognise that the resolution of outstanding issues rests squarely on them. People-to-people contacts can create a favourable climate, but they cannot by themselves pave the way for peace.

    India believes that Pakistan is unwilling to genuinely end its politics of confrontation with India, an integral part of which is the over-assertion of its Islamic identity. This is reflected in the propagation of its jihadi mentality, the nurturing of extremist religious groups involved in terrorism, and the political domination of the military in the governance of the country. The ‘war-crowd’ in India sees a permanent reason and a great opportunity to invade Pakistan and finish it forever. They feel India needs no excuse to invade Pakistan, since it has an excuse every day, and Pakistan keeps giving India more reasons without interruption. Pakistan’s failure to take any substantive step in the last four years to try those responsible for the Mumbai terrorist attack and the unwillingness of its leadership to accept that terrorism remains a crucial outstanding issue in India-Pakistan relations indicates that the nexus between the jihadi groups and political and military power centres in Pakistan will not be easily broken.

    India should look to hopeful signs that the powerful ‘India-centric’ Pakistani military has concluded that persistent hostility towards India and an obsession with Kashmir has done great damage to Pakistan. This may allow Indian leaders to decide that some normalisation with Pakistan is necessary for India to play a wider role in the world. This is the basis for a truce between the two countries, but not the basis for a peace. For that to occur, there will have to be more profound changes in their deeper relationship, for they will remain two states allergic to each other without the development of strong economic, cultural and political ties.

    If the examples of the countries that have established durable peace after prolonged confrontation are any guide, a willingness to concede ground is critical to establishing peace. The rhetoric of hollow nationalism without a willingness to honourably concede substantial ground is not adequate for peace-making. People have to be psychologically prepared that durable peace is not achievable without substantial concessions. They have to be made aware that the concessions made would be in the long-term interest of the two countries. Until this is done, a sound basis for trust and conflict-resolution cannot be created.

  12. saad Canada Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Romain sb: I do not understand your comment. I am obviously interested in responses and dialogue but that is not the basis of my writing.

  13. ExWho India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    to amin and zahid

    Amin wrote:
    “It is not Islam that governs relations or the trust deficit between India and Pakistan but a certain word called KASHMIR. Everything stems from that. Funny how you can forget that.”

    Kashmir is hindu land. Islam was not created in Kashmir. A lot of hinduism was created in Kashmir by kashmiris. Islam is 100% a non-kashmiri product, an alien invasion. If muslimized kashmiris develop their self-respect and learn the true history of Kashmir then they will reject islam and Pakistan thoroughly. But they are still under the boot of islamic imperialism and indoctrination since 600 years. The root cause of the Kashmir conflict is islam’s claim to possess and rule over the whole earth and reduce non-muslims to slaves. So the problem IS definitely islam, an alien totalitarian imperialist ideology from Arabia.

    Zahid wrote: “Solve Kashmir issue there would be no long term problems left between us.”

    Can you, as a fair-minded (I hope) muslim, suggest a solution that does not slander/humiliate hindus and does no injustice to the hindus? Islam claims to be the religion of justice and peace – so let us know your real, concrete and fair solution. Check yourselves whether it is just to the hindus before you publish it.

    When you pakistanis talk about “solution to Kashmir problem” then you imply a solution that is acceptable to the cause of islamic expansionism-imperialism and pakistan ideology and exterminating non-muslims from region to region. Have we non-muslims not seen/experienced that in the past 1400 years? Forget UN etc. – UN is only 65 years old. Islamic imperialism and fascism are 1400 years old. UN can’t solve that problem. The UN has still not investigated the problem of islamic imperialism and fascism. Let the UN first form a committee to investigate the imperialism, totalitarianism and fascism inherent in islam itself. I am not saying islam is the only ideology that manifests this. But today islam is the most aggressive and violent ideology of that type presently and needs to be investigated first.

    You muslims grow up glorifyig islam and muslims. You have no idea of the fascism caused by islam. Islamic fascism is pulling (has already pulled) Pakistan into an abyss – but you pakistanis are made to believe that it is some non-muslim conspiracy.

  14. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    There is definitely a wind of change and the cosmic rays from the Arabian desert are reaching Pakistan. Saaf Hafiz, excellent article and the voice of reconciliation and the message of peace wil always triumph over the Evil. If Pakistan Govt. means what they say and say what they mean, then they should remove the titile of ‘Enemy’ which they have granted to India before they relax and improve their trade relatios.

    Rex Minor

  15. Amin United Kingdom Safari iPad says:

    @ Roamin: I am well aware of what the resolution says. It is you who are selective regarding its application. Since it is India that took the dispute to the Security Council, the onus is on India to create conditions to hold the plebiscite retaining only the amount of troops necessary to maintain civil order. Do you really need 750, 000 troops to do that?
    @ EX Who: if Occupied Kashmir is fully integrated in the Indian Union, then why does it have ” Special Status”?
    Why is that other Indians are discriminated and are unable to buy property in Kashmir? Why are you unable to send text messages to “fellow-citizens” in Kashmir? Why do the Kashmiris insist on calling themeselves Kashmiri
    and not Indian? Why can’t you accept that they don’t want to be a part of the Indian Union?
    Let them choose what they wish to be!

  16. Amin United Kingdom Safari iPad says:

    @ Roamin: I am well aware of what the resolution says. It is you who are selective and disingeneous regarding its application. Since it is India that took the dispute to the Security Council, the onus is on India to create conditions to hold the plebiscite retaining only the amount of troops necessary to maintain civil order. Do you really need 750, 000 troops to do that?
    @ EX Who: if Occupied Kashmir is fully integrated in the Indian Union, then why does it have ” Special Status”?
    Why is that other Indians are discriminated and are unable to buy property in Kashmir? Why are you unable to send text messages to “fellow-citizens” in Kashmir? Why do the Kashmiris insist on calling themeselves Kashmiri
    and not Indian? Why can’t you accept that they don’t want to be a part of the Indian Union?
    Let them choose what they wish to be!

  17. ExWho India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    to saad
    >
    Repeating your article brings no new argument. In your article you give no durable suggestions of any real solution.

    Islam wants to exterminate non-muslims or reduce them to slaves under muslims.
    Yes or no?
    >
    If you give a dishonest answer to this question then it will only add to the distrust.

    During the past 1400 years islam has exterminated non-muslims from region to region, starting from the medinah/city of Yathrib. And muslims are told/taught to be proud of having done that and keep up this performance till the whole earth is done.
    Yes or no?
    >
    So how can there be trust between muslims and non-muslims? The distrust of hindus and India towards muslims and Pakistan is only a part of that larger distrust.

    You wrote:
    “Pakistani military has concluded that persistent hostility towards India and an obsession with Kashmir has done great damage to Pakistan.”
    >
    But this “conclusion” is not final. It is only temporary. Whoever wins the “pak army vs. pak terrorists” internal battle (it is only an internal decision-battle within islamic imperialism-fascism) will later aim his guns at hindus and India. THAT IS 100% CERTAIN.
    Yes or no?

  18. Amin United Kingdom Safari iPad says:

    Ex who: We are talking about conceding occupied territory here, not religion. That is the crux of the matter and the reason for the animus and hostility between India and Pakistan. But as you have brought up Islam again, can you explain why there is a Hindu Majority in India even after a thousand years of Muslim rule? If Muslims invaded India to spread the faith by violent force, surely they would have converted everyone and exterminated those who didn’t. The existence of Hindus in India shows the fallacy and weakness of the argument. It is you who are obsessed with religion and see a religious dimension to what is essentially a territorial problem.

  19. ExWho India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    to amin
    >
    Decisions cannot be made on the basis of emotions whipped up by islamic fascism and imperialism and falsified islam-glorifying narratives of history.
    >
    Democracy pre-requisites honesty and that is not to be found in islamic propaganda, islamic/pakistani history-writing (even many pakistanis admit that there is no honesty in islamic/pakistani history-writing). Referendums assume that the populace is honestly informed. But islamic propaganda knows only glorification of islam and muslims and vilification of non-islam and non-muslims.
    >
    So come up with a fair solution to the Kashmir problem. Let us know your concrete humane proposal that does no injustice to the hindus.
    >
    Did you, as a pakistani, inquire of your teachers, leaders and parents why in Pakistan only islam/muslims are glorified and hindus are vilified? Did you make your own investigation into it?
    >
    You wrote:
    “Let them choose what they (Kashmiris) wish to be!”

    This freedom of choice is impossible so long the Kashmiris are in the grip of islamic totalitarianism and imperialism.

    A muslim does not realize that islam is a totalitarian and arab-imperialist ideology. Islamic indoctrination prevents that.

    >

    If kashmiris choose not to join Pakistan – do you think the islamofascists who own and control Pakistan now will accept that peacefully? No chance of that.

    >

    Why don’t you pakistanis demonstrate in Baluchistan, FATA and Sindh what you want India to do in Kashmir?

  20. ExWho India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    to amin

    Islam is a territorially and demographically aggressive-expansionist religion. We all know that since 1400 years. Don’t pretend otherwise.

    You can’t separate islam from its territorial and demographic expansionist goals and methods. You muslims can only pretend to separate that.

    >

    Islam did not succeed in exterminating hindu religions in India because hindu religions proved to be more resilient than christianity in Anatolia or Zoroastrianism in Iran.

    India consists of many regions and in some regions islam did succeed in exterminating hindus, e.g. West Panjab, Sindh, Kashmir, East Bangal, Baluchistan. So islam does have the plan/goal to exterminate hindus – but it has still not succeeded in achieving this “victory” all over India.

    >

    A muslim who says islam has no intention of exterminating hindus and their religions is lying. If he can do it quickly then he does it quickly (like in West Panjab). If he can’t do it quickly then he may pretend not to want to do it and wait his time out for tactical reasons.
    We know islam since 1400 years. You muslims can’t fool all non-muslims all the time. But some non-muslims even today foolishly continue to believe that islam has no intention of hurting them or exterminating them.

  21. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    Pakistan should liberate Kashmir from kuffar like India liberated east Pakistanis.

  22. ExWho India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    to milestogo

    In 1971 (when “India liberated east Pakistanis”) neither India nor Pakistan had any nuclear weapons.

    Today even milestogo has a nuclear mini-weapon in his covert hole waiting to explode.

    Oh, I think it just exploded!

    What a gooey mess he has left on the wall, the ceiling and the carpet. Who is going to pay for the clean-up now?

  23. Milestogo United States Safari iPhone says:

    Nuclear weapon is allah’s gift to Sunni Muslims.

  24. manish Norway Opera Mini Unknow Os says:

    Saad
    Let me congratulate you for writing such a good article.
    you are quite right in your reasoning.
    the trust between the two countries cannot be build until those who are doing the talking also have the guts to implement the result of those talks at the ground level.
    In your country, india policy is still very much decided in GHQ and since they are absentee in the talks, so the willingliness on their part to put to effect anything decided by civilian govt. is only expecting tooi much from them.

    In India, UPA led by Congress is leading the talk. And going by the depth of the article i am safely assuming that you are quite abreast of all the going-ons in my country. So, you must be aware that Man Mohan Singh is percieved as a toothless puppet, and congress govt too eager to please the pakistani people.
    public feels that inspite of pakistan not delivering on any front it promised, it is yet being molly-coddled. like non-committment on hafiz saeed, dawood ibrahim and their ilks.

    so, the entire hullabaloo on Indian media was only reflection of the feelings simmering in a common indian, and not some conspiracy by govt.

    Regards

  25. manish Norway Opera Mini Unknow Os says:

    @ ExWho:

    i must say that you are posing difficult questions for Saad.

    As far as i know not everyone is interested too much in religion.
    not everyone is ready to view a battle from the spectales of religion.
    Should tomorrow India-pakistan go for a war tomorrow( god forbid, for it would kill the only poors on both side), and i, you and Saad are whisked into fighting at border, then you and i may find Saad standing in front of us as our mortal enemy, under the banner of pakistan i.e. Islam when he may not care a zilch about Islam, but all he cared was the lives of innocent people on his side.
    His motivation to fight us need not be necessarily religious. he may not care about about the glory of Islam neither the duty of muslims to exterminate polytheists, but in battle brove himself as a better soldier than all those muhajids.

  26. saad Canada Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Thanks Rex and Manish.

    ExWho: You are not posing any difficult questions at all. As I have said in many previous articles, India has good reasons not to trust Pakistan’s past record but this does not mean that you stop talking to Pakistan. Just waiting for Pakistan to implode is not policy. Read about a possible scenario below.

    http://wondersofpakistan.wordpress.com/2013/02/01/ground-zero/#more-40159

  27. Romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Amin Mian,

    I take it that there are no Pakistani Troops in Pak occupied Kashmir?

    You guys are a sovereign country or at least that is what you guys claim, why dont you guys take the initiative and create an atmosphere that the Indians would like?

  28. ex paki United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @Saad Hafiz sahib, yours quiz ‘The absence of trust’ Hafiz sahib, before I add few words, I have a QUESTION to you and please please BE HONEST TO YOURSELF and put your right hand on your heart and tell me, if you really TRUST ANY PAKISTANI? Thank you Hafiz Sahib.

  29. Romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Saad sb,

    I kinda agree that my comment was flippant !!

  30. saad Cayman Islands Google Chrome Windows says:

    Ex-Paki:

    There are trustworthy individuals in every society.

  31. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Wars do not solve political divides nor settle territorial or hegemony disputes; but is an easier decision for a military or civilian leader to take. We have lived ww1 and ww2 and the 30 years war before it as well as witnessed the vietnam, Iraq and Afhanistan. We are going to witness ww3 all the potential incumbents are preparing the ground work.

    Peace comes only when the people ask for it, desire it and fight for it. Neither the Indians nor the Pakistanis at present want peace; but they can atleast start thinking about it and take reciprocal steps for a dialogue. No nonsense political spins, both have the expertise in tricks but only some may be honest enough for a straight dialogue. There is always a hope for the mankind.

    Rex Minor

  32. ExWho India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    saad tells

    “…India has good reasons not to trust Pakistan’s past record but this does not mean that you stop talking to Pakistan.”

    >

    Is Pakistan some person sitting in a cafe in Lahore?

    With whom does one talk in Pakistan?

    Army, Air Force, Navy, judges (esp. of the SC), ISI, PPP, Zardari, Qadri 1, Qadri 2, PML X/Y/Z, mullahs, shias, hazaras, baluchi leaders, ahmadiyas, liberals, liberal “fascists”, quislings of arabs/turks, Imrans, Hafiz, Gul, Zaid Hamids, islam-glorifiers, jinnah-jingoists …

    With whom?

  33. tajender United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    http://vimeo.com/6977999

    rex very interesting video

  34. wonderer India Safari Mac OS says:

    @Amin

    Thanks for your kind words. A plebiscite as per the UN resolutions? Why not? Let us go ahead with that. Will Pakistan be willing to take the first step?

    Before you ask me what is the first step, kindly read the relevant UN resolutions. You will then have the answer to my question No.6. You would be much better informed if you found the answers to my other questions as well, and you would not need to be so kind to me.

  35. Truthful United Kingdom Google Chrome Windows says:

    Sadly Pakistan could not hold on to what was its own, and lost a large chunk of territory and people in 1971. Next it gifted part of Kashmir held by it to China. So why does Pakistan want Indian Kashmir? To lose it as it lost East Pakistan or so that it can gift it to China.

  36. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Mr Who,

    You are dumb but can learn how people of good will communicate with one another. Civiilian delegations who want peace meet and announce to the world community that they seek peace, not love or hate, but peace as neighbours for the families and the coming generations. I do not have the kowledge of your continent, but one developes partnership between villages and cities of the respective countries, etc. etc. etc. You are all very smarts in nit picking on one another but could use this talent positively as well. The respective militaries and the respective Govts. must yield to the wil of the people. There is no peace treaty between India and Pakistan because the majority of the people do not want it.

    Rex Minor

  37. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Tajender,

    Anna Blatzer says that American jews are progressive people! She has choosen to speak out against what drives others to speak against zionist jews. we should not ignore that arabs are as semites as the jews are, so the antisemite label does not apply to arabs.

    Rex Minor

  38. Rockstah India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    This Anna Baltzar is HOT! Give us Anna, take Kashmir. You can also take our Anna, of the Hazare fame.

  39. Kamath. Canada Safari iPad says:

    How about Indians giving up the entire Kashmir to Pakistan so that there is peace forever between Pakistan and Hindustan forever? Then Pak politicians can run the country according to the original wish of M.A. Jinnah and his followers? Or is this idea of mine all screwed up one?

  40. Asoka India Safari iPad says:

    We should give the Kashmiris not Kashmir. They keep saying they love the people and bleed for them and feel their pain since they are brothers. So Pakistan should share their space with them. Their love is not for land anyway it’s for the people. Indians should give the Kashmiris to Pakistan.

  41. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    The people of Kashmir are not the vasals of India or Pakistan! They are independent Natio, speak Kashmiri language and have kashmiri culture. They are the most docile human specie, perhaps to their land and the climate. This reminds me of a British Baron who worked as a civil engineer responsible for the construction of the Baramula-sirinagar road of approx. 50 mies an on his return converted to Islam and was ater respsible for the then greatest mosque in a town which had hardly muslim residents. I certainly would very much like to travel the Baramula-Sirinagar road which I suspect is one of the energy source which connects with the cosmic energy.

    Rex Minor

  42. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    PS
    Asoka should in return be given the copy of the great Asoka as a reminder of the man who deserted Hinduism after slaughtering thousands of innocents.

  43. mohan United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Anna, of the Hazare fame.

    isko dalai lama ko de do khush ho jaiga.

  44. Asoka India Safari iPad says:

    India has many nations within it. Each with its own culture, language, cuisine, dress. This is a federal country where nations have come together and no state is the vassal of any other. Small minded nations and people will never get this concept.

  45. tajender United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    war on kashmir is water for water.india has built 62 dams there.pakis dont want kashmir they want solution of their water problem.

  46. Asoka India Safari iPad says:

    I don’t know where people get the idea that everything a human being does is because of his religion. A human is much more than their religion. Unidimensional people who have no other identity but their religion are toxic.

  47. tajender United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    jews. we should not ignore that arabs are as semites as the jews are, so the antisemite label does not apply to arabs.

    jews and arabs are cousins.zoinists are enemy of both.they are anti-semitic as well.when zoinists were descending on palistine almost every palestanian jew submitted memorundum to gen balfour opposing their arrival.

  48. tajender United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Rex Minor says:
    February 5, 2013 at 6:59 pm
    PS
    Asoka should in return be given the copy of the great Asoka as a reminder of the man who deserted Hinduism after slaughtering thousands of innocents

    but afterward golden era started.budhhdism is very near to islam.1000 years was time of peace progress and knowledge.then they lost to vedics and dark period started.

  49. Asoka India Safari iPad says:

    If they want water why this natak of Ishq e Kashmir and Kashmir solidarity day etc.?

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