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Kashmir: the Elephant in the room

By Ghazala Akbar:

On February 5 every year Pakistanis jointly commemorate a secular, national holiday, Kashmir Day. This is truly a momentous achievement – not just because it keeps the ‘K’ word active in our political vocabulary but notably, because it is marked by all Pakistanis, all on the same day! That alone should be a cause for a major celebration. Kashmir Day, unlike certain religious holidays is determined by the Gregorian calendar. It does not require any elaborate moon – sighting exercises by scientifically- challenged scholars perched perilously on rooftops. Even the Government of Khyber-Pakhtoonkhwa, fiercely autonomous in matters of lunar-sightings concurs demurely with the Federal Government on this point. The fifth of February is Kashmir Day. Period.

And so this year, Kashmir Day came and duly went. For the politically-charged it was a day to regurgitate the same well-worn phrases and platitudes that have sustained us for more than 65 years. For well-heeled, laid-back and apathetic Pakistanis it was a day to put their feet up, have a long lie-in or indulge in recreational pursuits. For those who live on the margins, surviving on daily wages, it was just another unproductive day yielding nothing. As familiar TV footage of idyllic Kashmiri villages juxtaposed against the menace of gun-toting Indian soldiers appeared on TV screens, we duly nodded our heads in silent disapproval. Then, switching channels, we resumed normal service again.

Let’s be perfectly honest. Kashmir hasn’t been on anyone’s agenda for quite some time now. We have – to put it mildly and politely – other pressing concerns. Since 2001, there have been other enemies and battles closer to home. A ‘war on terror’, an extremist insurgency in the tribal and settled areas of Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa and FATA, predatory Drone attacks, resurgence of Baloch separatism, killings of Hazara and other Shia Muslims, ethnic killings, target killings, political crises, power outages, the falling Rupee, budgetary constraints, inflationary pressures, et al have all relegated the problems of Kashmir to a distant blur on the ever changing Pakistani kaleidoscope.

On February 9th, 2013 something happened to change this view. The kaleidoscope moved off its own volition. It revealed an ugly scene. The Vale of Kashmir (also known as Occupied Kashmir) came into sharp focus – alone, forlorn and abandoned. Its people were forcibly indoors, under a strict dusk to dawn curfew, their voices gagged. In sharp contrast, many Indians in the capital Delhi were in joyous revelry. Sweets were being distributed. Politicians exchanged congratulatory messages. ‘Better late than never, one tweeted.’ There was a triumphal note that seemed unsavoury and distasteful.

What was the cause of the disconnect between the two scenes, I wondered. Why was Delhi in celebratory mood when the people of Srinagar remained indoors, unable even to express their opinions as internet services and mobile phone networks were unplugged? My answer lay in the story of a 43-year-old man called Mohammed Afzal Guru. He had been executed in Tihar Jail, Delhi. Nearly eight years after he had been sentenced, the mercy petition filed by his wife was rejected by the President of India. He was hanged for aiding and abetting the perpetrators of the bloody 2001 attack on the Indian parliament. He was an Indian Kashmiri.

Perhaps it was the repeated telecasting of the image of Afzal Guru superimposed with a noose around his neck; the morbid fascination of the last few hours on earth of a condemned man or my personal abhorrence at the selective application of the death penalty but I was repeatedly drawn to this story. I had to know more about the man and his case. Was he truly guilty as charged? Why was he executed in haste and in secret? Why are other condemned men, the killers of a former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi for instance, languishing on death row while Afzal Guru is pushed ahead of the queue? I had to find out. I had to also understand what motivates people like Afzal Guru to risk their necks for a political cause that seems hopeless. Far from providing closure, the hanging of Afzal Guru re-ignited my dormant interest. Kashmir was back on my agenda.

Given our own quaint justice system in Pakistan that often releases extremists for lack of evidence, or the shameful adulation that greeted the killer of the Punjab Governor, Salman Taseer or our gloomy record in protecting minorities, and the killing of Hazara Shias that continues unabated, Pakistanis are in no position to sermonize or wag fingers at anyone. However, somehow and I say this with sorrow, one expected better standards from what we are constantly reminded is – the world’s largest Secular Democracy.

Never mind my perception that that the hanging of Afzal Guru was fast-tracked for political expediency or that the inhumanity in disallowing the condemned man a farewell meeting with his wife and son was cruel and callous, or the nagging suspicion that the timing of the execution was a retaliatory measure for the alleged beheading of an Indian Soldier at the Line of Control in January — the whole tawdry episode from start to finish has been edifying on many fronts.

The biggest eye-opener for me personally and I suspect for many Pakistanis were the reactions of dismay and disgust from three secular Kashmiri leaders, the Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir, Omar Abdullah of the National Congress, Ms. Mahbooba Mufti of the People’s Democratic Party of Kashmir, and her father, the former Chief Minister, Mohammed Mufti. By no yardstick can they be considered ‘pro- Pakistan’. If it were Yaseen Malik of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front or Syed Shah Geelani of the Jamaat e Islam, well – known ‘separatist hawks,’ we could put it down to habitual anti-Indian bias. But when moderate, secular voices express disquiet, outrage and sorrow at Afzal Guru’s hanging, when a former Chief Minister and Congress MP says ‘Gandhi’s India has become Banana Republic’ we have to raise eyebrows and wonder why!

For years we have been led to understand that elections, representative government, democracy were the panacea for Kashmir’s ills; that ‘militancy’ amongst the youth was caused by a dearth of economic opportunities; that the troubles in Kashmir were all Pakistan-created and sponsored; that if only Pakistan were to back off and give Indian-Kashmir a bit of breathing space, things would sort themselves. That was the conventional wisdom. Elections were held in 2005. ‘Cross- border’ incursions from Pakistan, (by India’s own admission) are now a trickle. Tourists are returning and the economy is picking up. If these are indicators of progress, the big question is: why is Indian Kashmir still seething with discontent?

Why is the Valley still under occupation by over 750, 000 Indian troops, with one soldier for every four Kashmiris? Why do Kashmiri youth cry ‘Azaadi’ (freedom) and throw stones at their own troops? What does Mahbooba Mufti mean when she says Kashmiri boys prefer to kill themselves rather than risk being caught by the Security forces? Who lies buried in over 2000 unmarked graves that were discovered in 2010? Why are Kashmiri Hindus who fled the state when the insurgency began in the early 1990s, still unable to return to their homes? Why does an execution in faraway Delhi cause the State of Jammu and Kashmir to be treated like a rebellious Satrap — the hapless recipient of harsh restrictions and mass punishments that reek of repressive colonialism? These are questions that all peace-loving people both in Pakistan and India need to ask.

At 65 years strong, the dispute over Jammu and Kashmir is the longest running dispute in the world. It is simply not fair that while the rest of South Asia surges forward, enjoying the fruits of Independence from Britain, Kashmiris remain frozen in time, hostage to a hasty decision made by a panic-stricken Maharajah that has forever doomed it to be a battlefield in the competing rivalries of India and Pakistan. This beautiful valley should have been an international playground, the Switzerland of Asia, enjoying the benefits of tourism and trade. Instead it is an armed camp, a tinderbox waiting to explode.

As 2014 approaches and the Americans prepare to exit Afghanistan, it is imperative that Kashmir becomes the focus of our attentions once again. Holy Warriors and mercenaries in search of new pastures should not be given a raison d’etre to muscle their way into the fray as they did when the Afghan Jihad against the Soviet Union concluded in 1989. The cause of the Kashmiris must be rescued from the clutches of extremists who have hijacked and defamed it for their own ideological ends. The rug must be pulled from under their feet by bringing the issue to the forefront on a state- to-state level.

In 2001, the attack on the Indian Parliament nearly dragged India and Pakistan towards war. Non- state actors tried it again with their murderous assault on Mumbai on 26 /11. Just recently we saw how the alleged beheading of an Indian soldier Hemraj Singh at the LoC resulted in another fracas causing the peace process to de-rail. As the Greek historian, Thucydides in the “History of the Peloponnesian War” observed, that what actually starts a war is different to what causes one. Apply this maxim to the tensions at the Line of Control. It doesn’t take much to start a conflict when the root causes of the dispute are not addressed.

Now more than ever, it is imperative for Kashmir to come off the margins and take center-stage in the discourse between India and Pakistan. Our diplomats and functionaries simply cannot continue exchanging pleasantries and side – step the main subject. Let’s not delude ourselves. Kashmir is the core issue. It is the bone of contention between India and Pakistan. It is the only game in town. Indians and Pakistanis at every level must not shy away from discussing the topic as if it were taboo and off-limits.

Kashmir is a cause that is politically correct – a just and legitimate demand for freedom and self-determination. It needs resolution — not with bullets and bombs, tit-for-tat knee jerk reactions, beheadings and judicial executions but peacefully through dialogue at the negotiating table. The sons of Afzal Guru and Hemraj Singh must have other reasons to grow up rather than a desire for revenge. Kashmir is the elephant in the room we simply cannot ignore.

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Filed under: Kashmir

148 Responses to "Kashmir: the Elephant in the room"

  1. Anurag Singh India Google Chrome Windows says:

    And the fixation of pakistanis over Kashmir is never going to end. :)

  2. Malay Deb India Internet Explorer Windows says:

    I do agree with the author, word for word.

  3. AKB Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    strange that world powers are not taking any note of it?
    What the heck is UNO for? It has adopted the role of another League of Nations? Without international intervention the Kashmir dispute doesn’t seem to be resolved and the silence of the bigger powers on this issue is deplorable. Of course, Pakistani’s are emotionally tied to Kashmir…it belongs to them and should be placed in their hands to run it.

  4. Pankaj India Google Chrome Windows says:

    Kashmir is a HINDU MUSLIM BATTLFIELD
    .
    Why dont you Muslims understand such a SIMPLE THING
    .
    We Hindus know that you Muslims want Kashmir
    .
    So we will not give it to you
    .
    Prove your Martial race theory and take Kashmir by FORCE
    .
    Don’t beg for it

  5. yazid United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ Pankaj

    I beg to pardon in this regard. It is a matter of human plight. Neither India, nor Pakistan fight it for the reason if religion. It is a bait to keep legitimacy over their respective Governments. No one is interested for betterment of the people. Kashmiri Muslims follow different traditions. Even in Pakistan people from minority such as Balochs are subjected to government apathy. In India, the most productive regions (same with Baluchistan) like Chhattisgarh, Orissa and Jharkhand are the poorest. Hence you have unrest there too.

    Kashmiris would benefit from an arrangement like EU and not like a complete dominion by India or Pakistan. It is still highly unlikely because it would term the nations as weak if they let it go. However, it would be solved definitely….

  6. NDelhi India Internet Explorer Windows says:

    yazid,
    i would have agreed with you had they not eliminated every kashmiri hindu from the valley. its not about kashmiriyat or human plight it is about islamic dominance and its devious ways . kashmiri muslims did not stand up for their hindu neighbours.
    and to tell you more hundreds of these kashmiri youth spend their winters selling shawls & carpets in Delhi and none of them is threatened despite bomb blasts and killings in the valley , infact many of my freinds and neighbours of kashmirti descent welcome them with food and love and enquire about their ancestral homes , their walnut trees …. but as kaal puts it the wooly headed hindus !!!

  7. yazid United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ NDelhi

    I would definitely say its mixed emotions. Kaal is enlightened :) :) :)

    The next prophet for the fanatics

  8. Chote Miyan United States Safari Mac OS says:

    Ghazala,
    “nagging suspicion that the timing of the execution was a retaliatory measure for the alleged beheading of an Indian Soldier at the Line of Control in January”
    .
    Well, this was new. Thanks.
    .
    “As 2014 approaches and the Americans prepare to exit Afghanistan, it is imperative that Kashmir becomes the focus of our attentions once again.”
    .
    And the best way to do it is to declare an entire week holiday a-la Muharram so that people have enough time to grieve about the plight of fellow Kashmiri (Sunni) Muslims who, of course, are more equal than other Muslims.
    .
    Pardon me for saying so, but I have watched with admiration the expression of sorry and anguish by our neighbors for Afzal Guru. Wonder what the Hazaras feel about this.

  9. romain United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    in Defence of Kaal

    I do not think it is fair to blame Kaal for his own comments. First of all he is a UPite. Secondly, the poor guy prolly studied in JNU and has to keep up the pretenses of psuedo-secularism inspite of facts to the contrary. Thirdly, if he didnt take the position he did, would you guys be talking about him?

    Let me conclude by saying, that he is really a diabolical guy (to give him the benefit of any doubts) who uses his arguments to bait the other side.

    Long Live KC and RSS !!!!!

  10. AKB Pakistan Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Pankaj

    Kashmir is a human rights issue . Relating it to Hindu Muslim affair is bad and reflects the bias Hindu mind. India calls itself secular yet to talk about religious discriminatins. Shame on you!

  11. Kamath Canada Google Chrome Windows says:

    Salaam:

    Could someone tell me if the name “Ghazala” is used for male or female? Sorry for asking the question.

  12. Amin United Kingdom Safari iPad says:

    @ Kamath: It is a female name.

  13. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    I am kinda confused. How big is this elephant? Is it a 2mm statue or something bigger? Is it big enuf that we can see it without a microscope? if it is very big is it Indian or African?

    Please somebody please help

  14. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @AKB,

    who says India is a secular country? SIMI and IM dont think so neither did MAJ. Is secularism a one-sided street?

  15. Dr A Mishra, Harrowgate United Kingdom Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Ghazala, powerful article, excellent in parts; inaccurate in others. Pl allow me to deal with the contentious issues-

    1.”inhumanity in disallowing the condemned man a farewell meeting with his wife and son was cruel “= the govt of India has to deal with a fragile law and order situation in Kashmir. Simply cannot allow more emotional family scenes degenerating into murderous mayhem. Sorry

    2. “reactions of dismay and disgust from three secular Kashmiri leaders, the Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir, Omar Abdullah etc”= they have to win elections and have to play to the gallery. Omar and Mehbooba are mediocre leaders, abs nothing on the national scene.

    3. “Why is the Valley still under occupation by over 750, 000 Indian troops” = simply to keep your murderous Taleban and Lashkar jhangvi out. The day we give them azaadi, Pak tanks will roll in and so will the chaos.

    4. “Kashmir is the core issue”- if you say so madam. Personally I think poverty should be the core issue on both sides of the border. But is you insist, pl do keep the keep the ball and chain that so shackles you down.

    5. “Was he truly guilty as charged? “- good question madam. Our hugely repected SC says so. pl also read this article- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Afzal-Guru-justified-Parliament-attack-in-letter-written-four-years-ago/articleshow/18695759.cms

    Thank you Ghazala, yr feedback will be appreciated. Regards Dr Mishra

  16. Tariq United Kingdom Google Chrome Windows says:

    There is abundant evidence of Indian civil and military atrocities in Kashmir. There is also abundant evidence of Indian political leaders hypocrisy over concerns for Kashmiri inhabitants muslim or otherwise. Fact is all kashmiri muslims totally wish to withdraw from the Indian Union but do not want to join Pakistan; they also wish to live harmoniously with non-muslim citizens of kashmir.
    Idiots like Pankaj actually hit the nail on the head. India holds onto Kashmir in defiance of all sense and humanity simply because it does not Pakistan to either have it (unlikely) or it will not face up to the fact that Pakistan is RIGHT on this issue. Let Kashmiri suffer so long as Pakistan is not given any satisfaction for being right. Indians for all so called secularism are still immature religious bigots. Pakistanis are no angels but they are not oppressing another nation nor are their troops occupying another state. India is.

  17. Dr A Mishra, Harrowgate United Kingdom Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Tareq some good points you have raised. You say- “There is abundant evidence of Indian atrocities in Kashmir” True. But it followed the murderous assault on the Kashmiri hindu pandits during 1988-90 when they were ethnically cleansed from the valley.

    Indian hindus will not tolerate that.

    You also say- “Kashmiri muslims wish to live harmoniously with non-muslim citizens of kashmir.” Sorry, this absurd claim is negated by the facts enunciated in the first para above.

    You also say that Indian troops are occupying another state. Very true Sir. But as I said in my earlier comment, the day Kashmir is given azzadi, Pak tanks will roll in the next day and will be followed by the murderous taleban and jhangvi etc.

    Sorry India cannot allow that

  18. Bagherbappu United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Indians Know that the poisonous snakes in the Valley of Rishi Kashyap have origin in the Islam . Elephant is a gentle Veggie animal and some times rats think they can wrestle with the big fellow. Everyone with little brain in South Asia knows what happen to the Rat who thought it could molest the Elephant.BTW, Guru wanted Paradise and he got his just reward,now Happily living among the Six Darzan Virgins.

  19. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Dr Mishra,

    now that the Amrikis are moving out, the Pakis need a new enemy to bind their nation together. What better choice than the old one :)
    For if the Amrikis, juices and hindoo are not there, what is the reason’d jure for their existence? They might as well merge with Afganistan and become afganis.

    Hazaras can go to Iran or to heaven

    The problem is sunni Pakis dont like shias. Well guess what – Kashmiris are majority shia and/or sufi.

    Ok I finally understood the game plan very well. Kill off the hazaras, so as to make room for the shias for Kashmir. Did I get this right?

    Lets see how elections have been held in Gilit- Baltistan or POK? Sorry wrong question. MAJ after all wanted a Caliphate to be established.

    Lage raho Pakis!!!

  20. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Dear Ghazala bibi,

    why not encourage all Kashmiri Muslims and like minded to migrate to Pakiland? It will solve all issues for Kashmiri muslims, Pakis, indians etc.

    Oops! I forgot, the Pakis banned all muslim migration from India in 1949.

    Why dont you say that the reason Pakis want Kashmir is to be able to control the rivers. Please don’t shed crocodile tears over the kashmiris. You might be surprised to learn that some of them have seen thru the Paki gameplan

  21. Ppaktea United States Safari Mac OS says:

    The “750000 soldiers in Kashmir” myth is nothing but that – a myth. And over the years, this number has increased by leaps and bounds, even during periods when forces have been significantly drawn down. Let’s look at a more accurate picture.

    There are a total of 4 infantry divisions based in J&K. But of these, only one division is based in Kashmir itself. One is based in Leh in Ladakh and is focused on the boundary with China. Two divisions are based in Jammu and face the international border and LoC with Pakistan. The one infantry division based in Kashmir itself has a long LoC to man and patrol. An infantry division in the Indian army has on average 15000 personnel. These numbers are in any case immaterial since these regular infantry divisions are based there to man the borders. The Government formed the Rashtriya Rifles specifically in the anti-insurgency role.

    So let’s look at the Rashtriya Rifles. There were a total of about 25000 men in the Rashtriya Rifles units at its peak. They have been significantly drawn down over the years. While the exact numbers are not in the public domain, there were announcements last year of further drawing down these forces by moving “thousands of Rashtriya Rifles soldiers” to the north east of the country. Nevertheless, let us maintain that there are 25000 soldiers of the Rashtriya Rifles units still deployed in J&K.

    Among the paramilitary forces, the only one deployed for security duties in Kashmir is the Central Reserve Police Force. The Border Security Force was deployed in the 90s, but has been completely withdrawn from counter insurgency duties. It mans some part of the International Border in the Jammu region, but does not play any role on the LoC in the Kashmir valley. At its peak, the CRPF had 70 battalions deployed to J&K. Each battalion has a strength of about 900 men (inclusive of logistics and admin staff, but let’s count them as well). That adds up to about 63000 men. The number of battalions has significantly come down since then – in Sept 2012, it was down to about 60 battalions, and this number has been further reduced since then. My guess is that there are no more than 50000 CRPF men in J&K (not just in Kashmir valley but inclusive of Jammu as well) but let’s be conservative and assume it is the peak figure of about 65000.

    Thus, the total number of armed military and para military personnel deployed in J&K is at most 90000 even if we take the most outlandish estimates. 60000-70000 to be more realistic. This includes personnel deployed in Jammu, and not just those in the Kashmir valley. The total population of Jammu and Kashmir is 12.5 million as per the 2011 census. Thus, there is 1 security person per 138 people if we take the most conservative estimate of 90000 personnel on counter insurgency duties. And this goes down to about 1 in 200 if we take a more realistic number into account.

    The total strength of the entire J&K police force is 63000 personnel. But like any other state police force, most of these are not armed – they typically have only a lathi for a weapon, if at all. The J&K armed police has a total size of 11 battalions, i.e. at about 900 men per battalion, less than 10000 people. And they are not deployed on a regular basis – they are only deployed during periods of enhanced need, such as riots, elections etc. But let us assume that they are all deployed on security duties.

    If we add these number, the ratio of security forces to the population goes to one armed security person per approx. 175 people. That translates to about 570 armed security personnel per 100000 people. Compare that to the about 230 armed security personnel per 100000 population in the United States, 291 in Germany, 344 in Malaysia, all countries where there is no insurgency and no terrorist campaign.

    Even if we assume that all of these personnel are deployed in the Kashmir valley, which is not true, and take the population of the valley at about 6.9 million in the 2011 census, we still get a ratio of 1 soldier per 100 people. Nowhere close to the 1 in 4 number Ghazala quotes. Even if we use her own number of 750000 personnel and assume that 100% is deployed in the Kashmir valley, it still does not come to the 1 in 4 figure given that there are about 7 million people in the Kashmir valley. Even the simplest of arithmetic does not add up.

    I don’t have the patience to calculate the numbers for insurgency hit parts of Pakistan itself, but am pretty confident that the numbers will be much worse. Leave aside the fact that while Pakistan regularly uses fighter jets and helicopter gunships in counter insurgency operations, there is not even one instance of the use of air power or heavy weapons in J&K.

    So Ghazala, before you write, please verify the facts. In your case, you did not even check the simplest of arithmetic. Even taking your outlandish numbers of 750000 personnel, which is inflated by a factor of about 10 (i.e. the real number is about one-tenth that number), we still don’t get the 1 security person per 4 Kashmiris number you refer to.

  22. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @Ppaktea,

    You are wasting your breath. Give the Pakis a simple option, they let the Baluch and Sindhi be free and independent and we can let the Kashmiri be free and independent (poor kashmiris) but its a worth the scarifice that poor kashimir muslims might be willing to make.

  23. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    I guess people living in glass houses shouldnt throw stones :) An old adage!!!!!

  24. yazid United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @ PPaktea

    What about killing the Sufi abiding infidels of Kashmir??? Do one thing let Khyber Pakhtunwa the next refugee camp for Kashmiris ( if they want).

    The problem of current day Pakistan is the lunatics who dominate the nation (is it a nation :) :) ).

    Kaal the believer would agree that first the watan needs a qaum now……….

  25. G. Ali. United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Romain,
    “Give the Pakis a simple option, they let the Baluch and Sindhi be free and independent and we can let the Kashmiri be free and independent”

    Why stop at Sindh and Balochistan? Why not freedom for Khalistan, Dravadiansistan, Assam, Sikkim, Nagaland, Mizoland … all the 18 independence movements in India? Heck lets’s discuss the if India is really a nation or a British creation?

    But again one needs brains to discuss these thing with intellegent people, your own Katju has said that 90% of you are idiots.

  26. G. Ali. United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Romain,
    “now that the Amrikis are moving out, the Pakis need a new enemy to bind their nation together. What better choice than the old one”. Really?

    Interestingly you need an enemy to keep India a nation:
    http://www.rediff.com/freedom/27paul.htm

    “I personally feel the concept and character of the nation has been superimposed on us in a misguided way which itself can be very damaging. “…

    “Frankly, living in Kerala, I have nothing to do with this 5,000 year-old history, I have nothing to do with this 800-year-old Mughal tradition and I have not been affected by it at all. I am not beholden to these traditions for any day.

    In a nightmare I see the Indian nation as a robot created and set in motion by the British and installed with a beautiful dream…”

  27. G. Ali. United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    NDelhi says:
    “i would have agreed with you had they not eliminated every kashmiri hindu from the valley”,

    please read this: (http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/dec/10blood.htm)

    On Jagmohan, The exodus of Pandits is attributed to him. “He encouraged the migration. He wanted them out of the way so that he could have a clear field for strong-arm tactics,” says a senior bureaucrat in Kashmir.

  28. Romain United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    @G Ali,

    Ouch! did that hurt? Dravidstan? LMAO!! Dude that term exists only in the minds of the deluded Pakis.

    So when I mention Baluchistan it hurts doesnt it!!!

    Long live the free Baluch

    Of course the british rule was a both a blessing and a curse. They brought a sense of nationhood to the indians (which they had forgotton for a 1000 years) and also brought along some psuedo intellectuals like MAJ. But then MAJ himself may have been a blessing in disguise. After all he did create Pakiland !!!

  29. G. Ali United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Romain,

    Long live the free Baloch, which they are. The Baloch independence movement also exists in Indian minds only. If you look at all independence movements, they have something common. They always have mass support, you see mass demonstrations in large cities, have strong leaders and parties. None of these exist in Baloch seperatest movement. It is only few feudals who are scared that in Pakistan they will eventually lose power.

    Long live Kashmir independence movement. Long live Khalistan, long live Dravadianstan movement, Long live PAKISTAN.

  30. G. Ali United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    British rule was only blessing for India, it created the concept of India. When was India a nation from Kashmir to Kanyahumari before British? And please don’t give me ‘cultural unity’ crap. There is nothing common between Kashmiri pundit and Kerala Muslim.

  31. G. Ali United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    .. and no mentioning of Balochistan does not hurt, it only reminds of justice Katju (or what ever the idiot name is) that 90% of Indians are idiots.

  32. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Well Gaali…. thhhu

    There is nothing called Dravidistan or Dravidianstan. Your ISI has been kicked by a normal Police cop KPS Gill which waged Khalistan movement. What Pakiland was today, India was at least 10 years ahead.

    Another point, in front a 6 trillion economy ( in terms of PPP, India stands 3rd in GDP), 400 odd billion economy is nothing.

    Another point If India was not a nation what about your Paki land.

    Still you fight among Punjabi, Pakhtun, Sindhi, Baloch, Hazara, Mohazeer and what not, was it a nation…..LMAO

    Lagi to nahi darling :)

  33. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    well Katju said both Indian and Paki are idiots. Atleast he is an Indian where free speech exists. Paki land is ruined with blasphemy and does any one dare to say that.

    We are a free and tolerant nation, we do not kill 100s of people in the name of Shias

  34. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Gali

    he is talking about craving a nation out of Sri Lanka you morn, read carefully
    He is not saying anything about India

  35. G. Ali United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Yazid, it is only a small minority that is killing Shias in Pakistan. Can you name one incident in Pakistan’s history when events like 84, 92 or 2002 occured? where ordinary Pakistanis with govt’s helped started killing ordinary people?

    I did not read the article on Tamil seperatist, i take it back.

  36. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Well it happens everyday in Pakistan. What about Shahbaj Bhatti and glorifying Mumtaj?

    What about harboring Hafiz Saeed who kills people everyday.

    How can you forget people trained by ISI who did Mumbai attacks? Was not it Pakistani government.

    What about thousand of people killed and raped in erstwhile East Pakistan. I can instantky cite 5 different interviews ( if you understand Bangla)

    What about Hindus and Christians forced to convert and forced to flee to India?
    Was not it Pakistan which created Taliban? WHich is the major problem of terrorism in the world?

  37. G. Ali United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    “….Still you fight among Punjabi, Pakhtun, Sindhi, Baloch, Hazara, Mohazeer and what not, was it a nation….”. BS, it is only a minority that fights, the rest live like family we marry with each other, live with each other. This is your stupid media that wants to show only negative aspects of Pakistan.

    Ask the thousands who commit suicide every day if they care about trillion $ economy.

  38. G. Ali United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    I was in Bangla, your trained MB killed many of my innocent relatives, so don’t give me crap about Bangla. Also, read “Sumantra Bose” on what happend in Bangladesh. Again no incident like 84, 92 or 2002 happend in Pakistan’s history.

  39. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Gali

    I stay in US and still I only see killings, bombings and incidents like Malala Yousufzai about Pakistan. Its not my media…

    another thing India accepts diversity and Trains run efficiently with over 10000 more and counting. Does it happen in Pak? no

    Can you move freely in most of the country? no

    India has problems, but its awakened, Indian people are taking head on about problems.

    What happened after killing 200 people in Quetta.

    India woke after case after case

  40. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Well the interviews are done by Bangladeshis, there is no Indian hand.

    :)

  41. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    yes miniscule people are killed everyday in Pak…….. hahhahah

  42. Ppaktea United States Safari iPhone says:

    G Ali,

    You asked about an incident where the Pakistan govt was complicit in large scale killing of its citizens. It has to be a joke, otherwise I cannot imagine anybody asking that question. It started early, soon after Pakistan came into being and tribal lashkars, instigated, aided and abetted by the Pakistan Government and with full logistical support of elements of the Pakistan army launched a campaign of violence, rape and plunder in Kashmir. In fact, were it not for such plunder and rape, they would have taken over Srinagar well before the Maharajah signed the accession document and the first Indian army units arrived there. Or the uprising in Gilgit that was put down by a joint team of the Pakistan army (then led by a young SSG Brigadier by the name of Musharraf) and terrorist organizations. Thousands died in that campaign. Or what happened in Balochistan in the 70s and again now. The ethnic cleansing of pretty much all the non Muslims in the western wing under Jinnah’s watch. All of these pale in comparison to what happened in East Pakistan in 1971. It was the biggest genocide in history after Hitler’s attempt at extermination of the Jews. Even with the most conservative estimates, there were at least a couple of hundreds of thousands of people killed. One fifth of the country were rendered refugees. Hindus were particularly targeted – the biggest such ethnic targeting after Hitler.

    So please look at the mirror before bandying around big words.

  43. Pankaj India Google Chrome Windows says:

    Pakistanis are SO STUPID that they have RUINED their
    country because of this Kashmir OBSESSION
    .
    Pakistan will SOON BECOME BANKRUPT
    Read this http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-9-162255-Interim-challenge

  44. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @PPaktea

    Can you please tell me for how many years Khan Abdul Ghafar Khan was jailed and his voice was suppressed for the demand of a Pathan land?

    Thanks again for the information about the state sponsored terrorism.

    :)

    This documentary is about Balochistan made by Aljazeers ( no Indian hand)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4aTxF3xjWA

  45. Pankaj India Google Chrome Windows says:

    There was a Time when Pakistanis USED TO BOAST that India
    CANNOT PROGRESS unless it gives away Kashmir to Pakistan
    .
    Pakistanis ALSO BOASTED that by holding onto Kashmir
    India will become Bankrupt
    .
    Today India is a TWO TRILLION DOLLAR ECONOMY
    .
    And look at Pakistan
    .
    After 65 Years Pakistan cannot even make DIESEL Railway LOCOMOTIVES
    .
    Pakistan CAN export ONLY COTTON TEXTILES
    .
    Please Carry on with this Kashmir kashmir kashmir OBSESSION

  46. Ppaktea United States Safari iPad says:

    G Ali,

    You also make it seem as if the terror organizations operating in Pakistan and killing people are completely independent of the Pakistani state. That is complete BS. People have long stopped getting fooled by the idea of independent non-state actors. Even in Ghazala’s post, there is a reference to the 26/11 assault in Mumbai being perpetrated by non-state actors, complexity ignoring the fact that the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba is very much a creation of the Pakistani state and continues to be propped up by it. Or that the control room from where the attacks were directed included serving ISI officers alongside the terrorists. The killing of Shias for instance being perpetrated by organizations that are very much a creation of elements of the Pakistani state. The Taliban was a Pakistani creation.

    So stop the BS. Nobody believes it anymore.

  47. Hayyer India Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Kashmir,by which is meant the valley of Kashmir, the area that wants Aazadi has a population of approximately 6.5 million people. Indian troops there are of two kinds, the normal deployment to defend the border comprising two army divisions which have always been there and two additional divisions deployed on combating the insurgency. One might thus say that there are roughly 30,000 troops engaged in anti militancy operations. In addition there are approximately 50,000 of the central reserve police engaged in static guard duties such as bridges or residences and offices. There are therefore less than 100k Indian troops deployed on combating insurgency or simple guard duties.
    Human Right violations have occurred, sad to say, but that is a thing of the past. It used to happen years ago when torture was resorted to to extract information.
    The situation has been peaceful for many years now except for a brief episode in 2008 over the Amarnath Yatra and 2010 over stone throwing street incidents.
    Human rights violations began with Pakistan trained militants indulging in killing rape and torture in early 1990. This continued for a few years till about 1995; killing of Pandit and Sikh villagers and even of Muslims by militants continued sporadically till 2000. None of this justifies human rights violations by the state, of course, but Afzal Guru’s hanging is not a human rights violation, though it may be a miscarriage of justice. Perhaps he did not receive a fair trial. Perhaps he did not deserve the sentence of hanging. Mixing up the two issues in Ghazala’s narrative doesn’t strengthen whatever case she wants to make.

  48. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ P Paktea

    all state actor have been given safe haven in Kakul/ Abbotabad. Its a joke as how in the earth you never know that the most wanted person of the earth is hiding near Pakistan Military Academy. One more thing, how the Pak defense remained nincompoop during the whole operation :) :) :)

  49. RamRahim India Google Chrome Windows says:

    One thing both the indian and pakistani should do for the kashmir solution is:
    1) India should offer to exchange the Shias from indian kashmir with the equal numbers of hazara shias from pakistitan.
    2) This will help hazara shias to live without being blown away and prosper in india and the kashmiri shia will have satisfaction of reuniting with their muslim brothers in pakistan!
    3) Secular, hard working and peaceful hazara will be a welcome addition to india and its muslim population.

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