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Kashmir: the Elephant in the room

By Ghazala Akbar:

On February 5 every year Pakistanis jointly commemorate a secular, national holiday, Kashmir Day. This is truly a momentous achievement – not just because it keeps the ‘K’ word active in our political vocabulary but notably, because it is marked by all Pakistanis, all on the same day! That alone should be a cause for a major celebration. Kashmir Day, unlike certain religious holidays is determined by the Gregorian calendar. It does not require any elaborate moon – sighting exercises by scientifically- challenged scholars perched perilously on rooftops. Even the Government of Khyber-Pakhtoonkhwa, fiercely autonomous in matters of lunar-sightings concurs demurely with the Federal Government on this point. The fifth of February is Kashmir Day. Period.

And so this year, Kashmir Day came and duly went. For the politically-charged it was a day to regurgitate the same well-worn phrases and platitudes that have sustained us for more than 65 years. For well-heeled, laid-back and apathetic Pakistanis it was a day to put their feet up, have a long lie-in or indulge in recreational pursuits. For those who live on the margins, surviving on daily wages, it was just another unproductive day yielding nothing. As familiar TV footage of idyllic Kashmiri villages juxtaposed against the menace of gun-toting Indian soldiers appeared on TV screens, we duly nodded our heads in silent disapproval. Then, switching channels, we resumed normal service again.

Let’s be perfectly honest. Kashmir hasn’t been on anyone’s agenda for quite some time now. We have – to put it mildly and politely – other pressing concerns. Since 2001, there have been other enemies and battles closer to home. A ‘war on terror’, an extremist insurgency in the tribal and settled areas of Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa and FATA, predatory Drone attacks, resurgence of Baloch separatism, killings of Hazara and other Shia Muslims, ethnic killings, target killings, political crises, power outages, the falling Rupee, budgetary constraints, inflationary pressures, et al have all relegated the problems of Kashmir to a distant blur on the ever changing Pakistani kaleidoscope.

On February 9th, 2013 something happened to change this view. The kaleidoscope moved off its own volition. It revealed an ugly scene. The Vale of Kashmir (also known as Occupied Kashmir) came into sharp focus – alone, forlorn and abandoned. Its people were forcibly indoors, under a strict dusk to dawn curfew, their voices gagged. In sharp contrast, many Indians in the capital Delhi were in joyous revelry. Sweets were being distributed. Politicians exchanged congratulatory messages. ‘Better late than never, one tweeted.’ There was a triumphal note that seemed unsavoury and distasteful.

What was the cause of the disconnect between the two scenes, I wondered. Why was Delhi in celebratory mood when the people of Srinagar remained indoors, unable even to express their opinions as internet services and mobile phone networks were unplugged? My answer lay in the story of a 43-year-old man called Mohammed Afzal Guru. He had been executed in Tihar Jail, Delhi. Nearly eight years after he had been sentenced, the mercy petition filed by his wife was rejected by the President of India. He was hanged for aiding and abetting the perpetrators of the bloody 2001 attack on the Indian parliament. He was an Indian Kashmiri.

Perhaps it was the repeated telecasting of the image of Afzal Guru superimposed with a noose around his neck; the morbid fascination of the last few hours on earth of a condemned man or my personal abhorrence at the selective application of the death penalty but I was repeatedly drawn to this story. I had to know more about the man and his case. Was he truly guilty as charged? Why was he executed in haste and in secret? Why are other condemned men, the killers of a former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi for instance, languishing on death row while Afzal Guru is pushed ahead of the queue? I had to find out. I had to also understand what motivates people like Afzal Guru to risk their necks for a political cause that seems hopeless. Far from providing closure, the hanging of Afzal Guru re-ignited my dormant interest. Kashmir was back on my agenda.

Given our own quaint justice system in Pakistan that often releases extremists for lack of evidence, or the shameful adulation that greeted the killer of the Punjab Governor, Salman Taseer or our gloomy record in protecting minorities, and the killing of Hazara Shias that continues unabated, Pakistanis are in no position to sermonize or wag fingers at anyone. However, somehow and I say this with sorrow, one expected better standards from what we are constantly reminded is – the world’s largest Secular Democracy.

Never mind my perception that that the hanging of Afzal Guru was fast-tracked for political expediency or that the inhumanity in disallowing the condemned man a farewell meeting with his wife and son was cruel and callous, or the nagging suspicion that the timing of the execution was a retaliatory measure for the alleged beheading of an Indian Soldier at the Line of Control in January — the whole tawdry episode from start to finish has been edifying on many fronts.

The biggest eye-opener for me personally and I suspect for many Pakistanis were the reactions of dismay and disgust from three secular Kashmiri leaders, the Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir, Omar Abdullah of the National Congress, Ms. Mahbooba Mufti of the People’s Democratic Party of Kashmir, and her father, the former Chief Minister, Mohammed Mufti. By no yardstick can they be considered ‘pro- Pakistan’. If it were Yaseen Malik of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front or Syed Shah Geelani of the Jamaat e Islam, well – known ‘separatist hawks,’ we could put it down to habitual anti-Indian bias. But when moderate, secular voices express disquiet, outrage and sorrow at Afzal Guru’s hanging, when a former Chief Minister and Congress MP says ‘Gandhi’s India has become Banana Republic’ we have to raise eyebrows and wonder why!

For years we have been led to understand that elections, representative government, democracy were the panacea for Kashmir’s ills; that ‘militancy’ amongst the youth was caused by a dearth of economic opportunities; that the troubles in Kashmir were all Pakistan-created and sponsored; that if only Pakistan were to back off and give Indian-Kashmir a bit of breathing space, things would sort themselves. That was the conventional wisdom. Elections were held in 2005. ‘Cross- border’ incursions from Pakistan, (by India’s own admission) are now a trickle. Tourists are returning and the economy is picking up. If these are indicators of progress, the big question is: why is Indian Kashmir still seething with discontent?

Why is the Valley still under occupation by over 750, 000 Indian troops, with one soldier for every four Kashmiris? Why do Kashmiri youth cry ‘Azaadi’ (freedom) and throw stones at their own troops? What does Mahbooba Mufti mean when she says Kashmiri boys prefer to kill themselves rather than risk being caught by the Security forces? Who lies buried in over 2000 unmarked graves that were discovered in 2010? Why are Kashmiri Hindus who fled the state when the insurgency began in the early 1990s, still unable to return to their homes? Why does an execution in faraway Delhi cause the State of Jammu and Kashmir to be treated like a rebellious Satrap — the hapless recipient of harsh restrictions and mass punishments that reek of repressive colonialism? These are questions that all peace-loving people both in Pakistan and India need to ask.

At 65 years strong, the dispute over Jammu and Kashmir is the longest running dispute in the world. It is simply not fair that while the rest of South Asia surges forward, enjoying the fruits of Independence from Britain, Kashmiris remain frozen in time, hostage to a hasty decision made by a panic-stricken Maharajah that has forever doomed it to be a battlefield in the competing rivalries of India and Pakistan. This beautiful valley should have been an international playground, the Switzerland of Asia, enjoying the benefits of tourism and trade. Instead it is an armed camp, a tinderbox waiting to explode.

As 2014 approaches and the Americans prepare to exit Afghanistan, it is imperative that Kashmir becomes the focus of our attentions once again. Holy Warriors and mercenaries in search of new pastures should not be given a raison d’etre to muscle their way into the fray as they did when the Afghan Jihad against the Soviet Union concluded in 1989. The cause of the Kashmiris must be rescued from the clutches of extremists who have hijacked and defamed it for their own ideological ends. The rug must be pulled from under their feet by bringing the issue to the forefront on a state- to-state level.

In 2001, the attack on the Indian Parliament nearly dragged India and Pakistan towards war. Non- state actors tried it again with their murderous assault on Mumbai on 26 /11. Just recently we saw how the alleged beheading of an Indian soldier Hemraj Singh at the LoC resulted in another fracas causing the peace process to de-rail. As the Greek historian, Thucydides in the “History of the Peloponnesian War” observed, that what actually starts a war is different to what causes one. Apply this maxim to the tensions at the Line of Control. It doesn’t take much to start a conflict when the root causes of the dispute are not addressed.

Now more than ever, it is imperative for Kashmir to come off the margins and take center-stage in the discourse between India and Pakistan. Our diplomats and functionaries simply cannot continue exchanging pleasantries and side – step the main subject. Let’s not delude ourselves. Kashmir is the core issue. It is the bone of contention between India and Pakistan. It is the only game in town. Indians and Pakistanis at every level must not shy away from discussing the topic as if it were taboo and off-limits.

Kashmir is a cause that is politically correct – a just and legitimate demand for freedom and self-determination. It needs resolution — not with bullets and bombs, tit-for-tat knee jerk reactions, beheadings and judicial executions but peacefully through dialogue at the negotiating table. The sons of Afzal Guru and Hemraj Singh must have other reasons to grow up rather than a desire for revenge. Kashmir is the elephant in the room we simply cannot ignore.

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Filed under: Kashmir

148 Responses to "Kashmir: the Elephant in the room"

  1. KluelessAli India Google Chrome Windows says:

    ..G. Ali says:
    “..the rest live like family we marry with each other, live with each other..”.
    That is true..like family you marry each other!!

  2. kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Ghazala, I am glad you wrote this. Pakistan has to take care of its problems, but Kashmir, in some form or the other, must be central to Pakistan’s agenda. In truth, Pakistan is unimaginable without Kashmir, and making sure that somehow or the other Kashmiris receive proper justice simply has to be on the agenda of every Pakistani, no matter what other cultural or political persuasions are involved. I don’t understand how any Indian can expect otherwise.

  3. peace United Kingdom Internet Explorer Windows says:

    KAALCHAKRA- by your jehadi standards, this post above was not fundamentalist. But by repeating the centrality of Kashmir to Pak existaence, I see no difference between you and that barking bulldog Hamid Gul.

    In you kaal and G Ali, I see the tragedy of Pakistan. Khalistan and Dravidistan- jeez man- wake up. This is 2013- what they taught both of u in a madarsa is dated

    summing up- I thoroughly enjoyed the writings of Hayyer, Dr Mishra and PPAKTEA above.

  4. Vish United Kingdom Google Chrome Windows says:

    Sadly Pakistan could not keep what it already had viz. East Pakistan and is now in the process of losing or has already lost parts of its North-West and Balochistan. Still it yearns for Kashmir and has a strange policy of shutting down on a so called Kashmir day, causing more harm to itself. The author also admits that celebrating ‘Kashmir day’ is the only event that unites ‘Pakistanis’ across the spectrum. Maybe that is a good reason to celebrate the day and keep calling Kashmir a core issue. However there is still no reason for India to discuss Kashmir with Pakistan. Raising the Kashmir issue is Pakistan’s psychological need,possibly for the sake of its own unity (as the author suggests.India has nothing to do with it. If Kashmir is what Pakistan needs to preserve itself, all the more reason for India to deny it.

  5. Romain United States Internet Explorer Windows says:

    @ Gali

    he is talking about craving a nation out of Sri Lanka you morn, read carefully
    He is not saying anything about India

    Yazid Mian,

    How dare you? Dont you know that he is a Paki!!! It is expected to lie. cheat, twist facts etc

  6. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    KC mian,

    you are absolutely correct. On the main theme of the article I completely agree with Ghazala bibi.

    Actually a lot of Indians are coming around to this view point. It is important to keep Pakis focused on kashmir. It will be very beneficial to India and indians in the long run.

    Here are some of the benefits that we should have already noticed.

    Keep Pakiland on the boil, prevent them from solving their issues like poverty, shia killings, disproportionate spending on the army etc.

    The only price the Indians have to pay is an occasional terrorist attack here and there but then the benefit by keeping Pakiland’s western borders and Pakiland on the boil more than outweigh the small cost of terrorism.

  7. samin khan barrister at law Pakistan Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    dear all of you,
    the azad kashmir that we have was not taken from india by kashmiris but by waziris and mahsuds in 5 days-the pak army maintained its possession-
    well the waziris and mahsuds earlier in 1930 helped the future afghan king to defeat bacha saqqa-
    now it is only the taliban who can defeat not merely karzai inspite of indian efforts to take the place of usa -do remember that well known indian journalist kuldip nayyar said recently that ‘taliban shall take over afghanistan then they shall take over pakistan then they will attack india’.
    sameen khan

  8. kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    “Talibani Semen Khan ki majal Heeramandi ke Ayesha ki Thigh tak.”

    This is so damn pathetic. Come on, man, no need to sink so low. Really, this is unacceptable, and you know it.

    Whatever our views, we can discuss them, but PLEASE don’t do this. Take it as a request. Thanks, brother.

  9. kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Samin Khan, I am sorry for whatever you had to read. You even wrote a decent post.

    Politically we can take any position, but it should not been so hard for us to stay away from the gutter of personal abuse.

  10. kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Bro, I am much less concerned if some beliefs, influential historical figures etc are praised or abused. Just let’s not involve interactors themselves. I am sure you understand. And am grateful you listened, so many many thanks. (everyone can always abuse me. :) )

  11. Bagherbappu United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Pankaj,
    Kashmir is a very successful monkey trap set for people known for having little or no thinking ability. There is no reason and not in the interest of India to pay any attention to Jihadis drowning in their own Drooling and chronic Islamic sinus flow. No one doubt the India’s capacity to keep or wipe the filth away. A Rat holding to the tail might think its raping the elephant but all it take is small burp and push of elephant to tear apart and splash the Rat guts to the nearest thorn bush.

  12. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Al… you are a crude idiot and do not have a place on this board. Please leave if you cannot discuss w/o abusing.

    KC mian, I wholeheartedly support you.

    RHR, time to remove some posts and as ylh does to me, ban some posters.

  13. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    @G. Ali mian

    http://dawn.com/2013/02/27/us-congressman-rohrabacher-demands-referendum-in-balochistan/

    Thought you might find it interesting.

    The point is while in a few sentences we may try and trivialize an issue or two, and feel good while scoring a point, these sort of things are never that clear nor simply black or white.

    As they say which perspective is always unique to the position you view things from. The trick is to view things from different angles.

    cheers

  14. heavy_petting United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    On Kashmir India’s policy has been, grab them by the balls and hearts and minds will follow. Has it been working so far?

  15. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    good for you? I understand the pain of yours in admitting the truth..

    :) :) :)

  16. kaalchakra United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    HP, you are again floundering about India.

    India’s policy is – come hell or high water, we will not let you go. You can take your hearts and minds and place where sunlight tends to be absent.

    Much more interesting to us here might the position of some Kashmiri Hindus (and of Kahsmiri Musliims). Those positions often pretty much parallel the views of Bengali Sarat Chandras and Bengali Muslims.

    May not be entirely true in general – don’t know for sure – but interestingly true of a few active and vocal cases one can point to online.

    {One of my older gentlemen friends (anil ji) has been waiting for India to be ‘nice enough’ to Kashmiri Muslims so his Kashmiri Muslim brothers and sisters can fall in love with India. He has a long wait ahead of him, unfortunately more years than he probably has left on planet earth (of course, as you would be too, I am too polite to directly tell him so).

  17. heavy_petting United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    Kaalchakra, don’t know who you talk to online but most Kashmiri Hindus are pretty hardcore about the Sunnis. Can’t blame them after what they have gone through in the insurgency. More interesting is what the Kashmiri Shias and the small community of Ahmadis think. They are of course scared for their life in fear of India’s capitulation to the Sunnis. If not for anything else for them India should not let go of Kashmir.

  18. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Yazid Mian,

    I do not experience any pain whatsoever in admitting the truth. The unfortunate thing about truth is that it always comes out.

    I also happen to hail from that part of the world.

    But I like Paki bashing so I sometimes respond the way I do.

    best

  19. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    HP mian,

    my experience so far has been this. Both sunni and shia kashmiris when they come to Jammu tell us that they participate in all the demonstrations in the Valley bcos they are shit scared for their and their families’ lives.

    And also that azadi is good business these days.It brings in a lot of funds. Syed Ali Gilani in 1989 lived in a two room flat. Today he lives in a palace. Neither he nor his sons have done an iota of work during all this time So where did the money come from?

    How many of his sons took up arms is another good question to ask

  20. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    HP,

    I forgot to add that Gilani also owns houses in N Delhi. A good question would be how many houses does he won in Islamabad

  21. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    that should read “own”

  22. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    @ Romain bro

    my clarification, i posted the following

    Islam: Be weak, and refuse to think, to open your mind.
    Lose yourself in the fake love of a make-believe god that no Muslim has ever seen, nor heard, and will never see or hear. Ever.
    Yes, Islam is open, open for submission. Head to the Mosque, pray to the lord Mohammed( Allah is second fiddle), for he is the one behind Islam.
    Pray to the man who claimed to talk on behalf of his fake god.

    DO NOT try to interpret the Quran. ACCEPT it for what it is. DO NOT question it. For if you QUESTION it, you become a doubter.
    Doubters are not welcome in Islam, they are a menace.
    Only submitted individuals that unconditionally love Islam, and it’s fake god, are welcome.

    Claim that you are tolerant, yet do not tolerate a word and claim blasphemy. Hate Allah followers who do it a different way ( Shia and Ahmediyas)

    then KC the enlightened said

    yazid, whatever may be the truth about Islam,

    Then I asked KC that he accepts the facts.

    I mistook your response as No (I thought its from KC)

    So I said good for you to KC, not you, apologies bro

  23. romain United States Google Chrome Windows says:

    Yazid Mian,

    no worries :)

  24. heavy_petting United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    romain, I have no doubt the Sunni Kashmiris, save perhaps the diehard Gilani types, no longer want to join Pakistan proper. But they may still harbor a romantic hope of “azadi” however impractical that may be. If I were a Kashmiri Shia, or God forbid Ahmadi, I would be shit scared of azadi even, given the rate the Shias are being butchered in Sunni majority Pakistan.

  25. beacon India Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Anyone who wants to become important talks of liberating someone. This someone has to be manipulated to declare his own terrible sufferings till he really starts to suffer. Then the game comes into its own.

    Let muslims first free themselves from the mental slavery into which islam has put them since/in 1400 years of lies and briberies and violence and intimidations.

    Why not first liberate pakistanis (who are 99% not arabs) from the imperialism of the arabs and from the fascism of islam? (Every religion contains fascism, islam is the worst and most dangerous case).

    A kashmir “liberated” from India will be a victim of islamic/sunni fascism of the worst sort. Why try out poison once again? After getting the kashmiris under their feet the sunni fascist “liberators” will seek out new targets to be “liberated”.

  26. beacon India Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Islam is full of internal contradictions coupled with arrogance and exaltation of violence.

    Muslims behave well only so long they are a mini-minority and are not led by islamic “scholars”. These “scholars are the biggest fraudsters in islam and the contradictions in the kuran make for additional dynamite.

    If the muslim population is increasing then that gives them additional reason to be arrogant and threatening.

    All these pathologies of islam are seen since 1400 years and in Kashmir they are all too evident.

  27. Mohan United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Romain,

    ” And also that azadi is good business these days.It brings in a lot of funds. Syed Ali Gilani in 1989 lived in a two room flat. Today he lives in a palace. Neither he nor his sons have done an iota of work during all this time So where did the money come from?

    How many of his sons took up arms is another good question to ask.
    -
    You are 100% right. Everything is about money. All these leaders who
    pretend to fight for the cause of Kashimiris are all bogus.No one cares for Kashmiris whether they are Hindu pundits and Kashmiri Muslims. All they are interested only in increasing their bank balances.

  28. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Ghazala Akbar,

    Your thoughts and the courage to remind PTH readers about the tragedy which the Kashmiris have experienced and continualy suffer on account of occupation on a daily basis, contrary to Hayers consolations, is admirable. Your intuitive timely writing is praiseworthy, though your article did not elaborate on the fate of the kashmiris who live in the green grass territory which is also occupied by the khakis, as RR calls them.

    Th Govt. of India has no legitimacy to keep kashmiris under military occupation, nor has the Govt. of Pakistan any longer legal or moral stand to speak on behalf of or represent the kashmiri people as a whole.

    Pakistan has positioned herself over a period more or less like the Egyptians and the Jordanians did who virtualy abondoned the Palestinians after the war debacles, and in the case of Pakistan, its military rampage in former East wing and lately in the Pashtun land.

    Indian strategists have now placed their fate with that of China, the rising super power of the world, regarding LOC incidents as irritations and China as the Enemy No.1.

    Rest assure, the mercernaries and the holy warriors have no interest to look for new pastures, their first task would be to talibanise the entire territory of Afghanistan and eliminating the remnants of Northern Alliance structures who did not utilise the optio of settling down in the mid west.

    Rex Minor

  29. manish Norway Opera Mini Unknow Os says:

    Ghazala you too fell for that oft-quoted figure of 7,50,000 soldiers stationed in Kashmir.
    Since Ppaktea and another gentleman have presented their arguments against that highly absurd figure, what do you think, is the truth.
    Well, you can talk to us in the comments section and present your side of argument for believing in that figure, which you may not have the liberty while writing the article for obvious reasons.

  30. G.Akbar United Kingdom Safari iPad says:

    @ Manish: I am quoting a figure gleaned from various international sources of which you are aware.
    If that is inaccurate, the onus is on the Indian Authorities in Kashmir to correct.
    Regards
    GA

  31. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    GA,

    Wiki,answers.com quotes 800,000, without further details. Ppaktea anatomy of the force deployment is misleading since it can change. Indian Govt. will not provide the real count, and right so, since such an info is classified. It is good that you ignored the number of short range and long range loly pops stationed in Kashmir.

    Rex Minor

    at a reasonable dPInian o as not com

  32. Ppaktea United States Safari iPad says:

    Ghazala’s,

    The Indian Government has often refuted it. The 750000 number is a number whose origins lie with the terror organizations, most prominently the United Jihad Council. Do you take anything else that such organizations say on face value? Then why do you do that for this? Mainstream newspapers have also subsequenty taken these numbers as the truth without any fact checking. As they say, a lie repeated a thousand times starts becoming the truth. That is what happened here. I remember that it started at 400000 and they just arbitrarily upped it every year. Even as recently as a couple of years ago, they would quote 700000. The addition of 50000 has happened at a time when there has been a large reduction of forces aingside the decrease in violent incidents. All these numbers are without any basis and have just been pulled out of somebody’s hat. An easy fact checking would discredit them, if you are interested in the honest facts, that is.

    In any case, you have ignored another part of my post as well – even if you assume the 750000 number to be true and assume that every single one of those is stationed in the Kashmir valley, you still don’t get the 1 in 4 number you refer to in your article, with the population of the valley beng about 7 million as per the 2011 census. Could you please clarify which hat you pulled that number out of?

    Please show that you care about the truth. I know that lying has long been part of the Pakistani DNA, dating to before the formation of the country. The very origins of the Pakistan movement – the exaggerated and in some cases outrightly untruthful claims about the Congress provincial governments formed after the 1937 elections and Jinnah’s speech at the Lahore session of the AIML to cite just two examples – are full of lies and exaggerations. So it may not be part of the culture to be honest and factual. But based on your writings here, I believed you were different. This article provides counter evidence to that belief. Please restore your readers’ faith by accepting that your article is based at least in part on lies and exaggerations (even if not your own).

  33. Ppaktea United States Safari iPad says:

    I meant to just address the above to Ghazala. Don’t know how the ‘s got added. Blame the autocorrect feature of iOS.

  34. RajTOO Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Why is there this discussion? Indians would put as many soldiers in Kashmir as needed. It is Indian territory! Pakis can cry as much as they want! They can also try whatever they want! When our tolerance runs out Pakis get another Jhappar like in 71.
    .
    Why the hell are the Indians trying to justify to Pakis what we do?

  35. Ppaktea United States Safari iPad says:

    Rex,

    Why is it misleading? It is factual, based on open sources. I can provide a credible source for every number I have quoted. Yes, it can change, but the point is that even at its peak, the number did not go much above 100000. Where is that number and where is 750000? I also showed that even at 100000, the number of security personnel per 100000 people in the population is not that much more than other countries that have no insurgency and violent campaigns to deal with. All of these are facts, and verifiable ones. I challenge you to show one credible source (not somebody’s claim, but one that shows how the number was arrived at) showing the 750000 number to be factual, or to have been factual at any time in the past.

    Or is it too much to ask from a nation of habitual liars? You lied about the so-called tribal invasion of Kashmir in 1948, denying the fact that it was officially organized. You lied about the origins of the 1965 war – which was started by the unprovoked aggression of the Pakistan army, You lied about the Kargil invasion, claiming that it was a ‘mujahideen’ operation when it was actually fully an army operation. I have only cited some of the lies related to the conflict over Kashmir. The lies are much more pervasive.

  36. yazid United States Mozilla Firefox Windows says:

    one more thins history says it was India since Chandragupta Maurys days.

    Hindus tolerated the rule of Muslims for a good hundreds of years.
    Why was MAJ fearful about that ?

    India is a sovereign nation and is free to do whatever wants. In this globalized world of 21st century, 7th century ideologue state (if holds together for another 10 years) like Pakistan is suffering…

  37. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Ppaktea,

    I am sorry but you are using a very strong language! There are no lies or truths in information, unless the info is deceptive. I have not the feeling that people write articles on PTH to deceive, some of the bloggers do come up with info from the internet world which suits them and their story.

    I personaly did not have any prior info on numbers other than what is contained in the article and the one I have googled since. The nubers have a limited relation with the mission. If the Kashmiris can be kept in the vast prison with a single Division made up of 15,000 combat troops plus 8000 support element, it is unlikely to impact on the their occupation status.

    I am not a Pakistani nor an Indian, nor have any interest in the pissing contest of Indian military versus the Pakistan military. I know what a blitzkrieg is and what how real wars are fought and ow the civilians suffer. I will go along with Samin Khan statement on 1948 episode. No one organises for thw waziriris!

    I said misleading since you brought in their deployment and the chnese element. The information in general is available at the following address, http://www.globalsecurity.Org in detail including the locations of the military. History is not always accurate, it is ones opinion against the other’s opinion. Wikileak was not active in 20th century.

    Rex Minor

  38. G.Akbar United Kingdom Safari iPad says:

    @ Ppaktea
    The figure has been carried uncritically and unchallenged in sections of the World Press.
    Through repetition such a claim gathers momentum and a validity of its own, gradually evolving
    from assertion to fact.
    The thrust of my article, you will appreciate, is to re-kindle interest — both in India and Pakistan
    towards seeking a peaceful resolution to the Kashmir problem. The very fact that you have taken
    the time and trouble to post twice on the subject is an encouranging sign.
    I am no expert on DNA but as fellow South Asians, I am fairly confident we share the same
    attributes.

  39. Ppaktea United States Safari iPad says:

    Ghazala,

    The 750000 number may be a pure citation of others’ assertions, but the 1 in 4 number is wrong even in terms of pure arithmetic. It dramatizes the story, but does not do much more. A fact checking on even that should have raised suspicions about all the numbers.

    Regarding the DNA comment, I was referring to the Pakistan establishment. From the very beginning, it has been a story of lies and half truths. While establishments everywhere are no saints, the Pakistan establishment has had a particularly sinister history of lying blatantly. Right from the time of the Pakistan movement.

  40. tajender United Arab Emirates Internet Explorer Windows says:

    Ppaktea as per anurdhati roy every 4 man has a soldier.this will effect indian economy in long term.like americans now and soviet union before.

  41. Ppaktea United States Safari iPad says:

    Tajender,

    You crack me up by your post. If Arundhati Roy repeats the lie that there is one soldier for every four people, it does not make it anything but a lie. If anything, the fact that she said it only makes it more likely that it was a self-serving lie.

    In any case, India has one of the lowest numbers for police per 1000 people and army per 1000 people in the world. Lower than even peaceful paradises like Costa Rica and Switzerland and the Nordic countries. One of the smallest prison populations. In fact, by any account, the Government of India has grossly underinvested in the security of its citizens. The only kind of security the Governments have cared about is that of VIPs. Let’s see if the recent movements by the youth to force the Government to change its focus has any impact. The optimist in me would like to believe that things will change for the better but the realist in me steps in and says that there won’t be substantial changes. In any case, any suggestion that we are suffering because of too much investment in security is devoid of any credibility. We have some of the lowest numbers of security personnel relative to the size of the population or its geographical extent, and we spend a low percentage of our GDP on our security apparatus, lower than most major countries and certainty very low given our security environment.

  42. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Ppaktea,

    if I were you I would look at the statistics with a pinch of salt and to interpret them accurately the common sense and basic rules, before leting loose the emotions in huff and puff.

    Every 23 minutes a rape, Indian official rape statistics does not mean that after the interval of 23 minutes a rape is being reported. But it does mean that the total number of incidences divided over 24 hrs give the reported number.

    Switzerland the paradise has been declared this week,the most armed in Europe. The reason being that Switzerland does not have a standing army but its citizen are trained as soldiers and authorised to keep their rifles at home. They have successfuly kept their country out of ww1 and ww2.

    Rex Minor

  43. Ppaktea United States Google Chrome Mac OS says:

    Think a little before you speak nonsense. While Switzerland does not have a large active military, look at the numbers for police and compare that to India. These are not reserve personnel I am talking about, but active duty ones.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_police_officers

  44. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Tajender,

    Bull’s eye! The Afghan Talibans declassified the Soviet Union might and now the USA might; both have lost the invincible profile. Drones and no more footprints in foreign conflicts, Regime change when necessary( based on the massive work carried out by USA embassys under Hilary Clinton) establishing profiles of the political elites both pro and anti USA individuals.

    John Kerry becomes the first secretary of state to hear Turkey accusing Zionism to fascism and antisemitism.

    Rex Minor

  45. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Tajender,

    Bull’s eye! The Afghan Talibans declassified the Soviet Union might and now the USA might; both have lost the invincible profile. Drones and no more footprints in foreign conflicts, Regime change when necessary( based on the massive work carried out by USA embassys under Hilary Clinton) establishing profiles of the political elites both pro and anti USA individuals.

    John Kerry becomes the first secretary of state to hear Turkey accusing Zionism at par with fascism and antisemitism.

    Rex Minor

  46. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    Ppaktea,

    Apples comparison with pears. Do you have the slightest idea how statistics are read and interpreted. You are even worst than Dr Mishra! Do you know how the swiss police operates?

    Rex Minor

  47. Ppaktea United States Safari iPad says:

    You will remain the Idiot that you always were. My comment was a response to a claim that India’s economy was being affected by how much it spends on security. How the police operates in different countries is irrelevant.

  48. Rex Minor Germany Google Chrome Windows says:

    PP,

    Sorry, I made a mistake and misjudged your profile.

    Rex Minor

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