Nature denied Bhutto and Zia’s mission

By Syed Foaad Hassan

Under the light of Quaid’s words, “Minorities to whichever community they may belong; will be safeguarded. Their religion or faith or belief will be secure. There will be no interference of any kind with their freedom of worship. They will have their protection with regard to their religion, faith, their life, their culture. They will be, in all respects, the citizens of Pakistan without any distinction of caste or creed”. Even here Quaid meant Hindus, Sikhs or Christians and tried to give a message that we should get out of this minority/majority thing because now we have a free state where everyone is free. But very soon after his death some religious communities tried to convert Pakistan into a theocratic Islamic state and most of these communities were against the creation of Pakistan like Jammat e Ahrar, a group of Deoband Ullema and Jammat-e-Islami.
Their first target was Ahmadiyya community and somehow after violent struggles and uniting dictators of Islamic countries Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto declared Ahmadis non-Muslims with a constitutional amendment on 7th September 1974 and he proudly stated, “We have solved the Ahmadi problem once and for all.” So afterwards Pakistan became a Kafir factory, where State can decide someone’s religion and impose its laws by violating basic human rights. It was the start of persecution and later on General Zial ul Haq joined the club and imposed ordinance XX to further restrict freedom of Ahmadis to practice their religion that outlaws “posing as Muslims”. The law imposes three-year jail terms on Ahmadis “who directly or indirectly, poses himself as a Muslim, or calls, or refers to, his faith as Islam, or preaches or propagates his faith, or invites others to accept his faith, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations, or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims”.
It also makes it illegal for Ahmadis to refer to their places of worship as “Mosques”, or their calls to prayer as “Azaan”, in addition to other restrictions.
The 1984 law opened the door for an increase in attacks on the community by mobs and anti Ahmadi groups. Since then hundreds of Ahmadis have lost their lives and laws are being misused against the community. Every year on 7th September Mullahs and state celebrate the declaration and arrange conferences against Ahmadi community and I don’t know where is the Government and security forces who are acting against hate speech? In major cities like Lahore or Rawalpindi you can see banners, stickers on shops and join any conference or Jalsa to witness hate speech against Ahmadis.
But destiny did not support Bhuttoism and Zia’s mission as he stated “I will not rest until I eradicate the cancer of ‘Qadianiyyat’ (Ahmadiyyat) from the world.” Recently during an annual convention of Ahmadis in London it was claimed that more than 500,000 people have entered in the community from across the world and they are spread in 205 countries and every year almost same amount of people joins community from all over the world.
Recently Legislators from both ruling and opposition benches in Pakistan’s Punjab Assembly have severely criticised the statement of former Pakistani diplomat to UK Wajid Shamsul Hasan in which he said that the decision to declare Ahmadiyya a minority in Pakistan was wrong.
An annual convention organized by the Ahmadiyya Community has quickly become a new venue for diplomacy and peace talks. The convention which is called the “Jalsa Salana” takes place in London, U.K., the United States, Germany, and other places around the world. This year Jalsa Salana Canada took place at the International Centre in Mississauga from Aug. 28 to 30. The three-day event was attended by Prime Minister of Canada Stephen Harper, leader of the Canadian Liberal Party Justin Trudeau, Consul General of Pakistan Asghar Ali Golo, Consul General of India Akhilesh Mishra and many local politicians. The audience included thousands of people from Canada, the US and other parts of the world. Slogans of Takbeer were raised in front of Pakistani counsel general and he responded to that and said “It’s very encouraging for me to see such a large number of Pakistanis, all ambassadors of Pakistan making such a marvelous contribution in a country like Canada, and i am proud to represent my my Pakistani community who have been extremely respected all over the world, especially in Canada.”
So “swords can bend heads but not minds, force can win territories but not hearts”, we stopped a community, persecuted them and still persecuting by all means and they are growing all over the world, now we are targeting Ismaili community, many members of Hazara community have left Pakistan, target killing of Shias is common after all what is our need? We were treated like a persecuted minority in sub-continent and we fought for freedom and gained this beautiful country but this religious extremism is a big shame and failure of State. We claim too much about stopping hate speech and persecution but practically there is nothing like that; those who dare to speak get killed like Salman Taseer, Sabeen Mahmud or Shahbaz Bhatti. Nature opposed Bhutto’s and Zia’s Pakistan and God will make Pakistan a peaceful place but it needs our role in it, we are afraid to speak and scared from extremists. We should help educating new generation and negotiate with Mullahs that this attitude will cause destruction but nothing else. Is there anyone among us who can discuss unjust laws by State? HRCP or Supreme Court of Pakistan? I end my opinion with a question.

The writer is a Lahore based Journalist, Human Rights Activist and Bureau Chief Lahore at Weekly Education Informer

  • yasserlatifhamdani

    I can’t respond to abstracts. Jinnah performed really well under extremely trying conditions. Whatever he did he left behind a succession plan and a Pakistan that at least survived his death. Providence didn’t give him the chance to be at the helm longer but every minute of his life as governor general was spent trying to make Pakistan work and we are thankful for that.

  • Majumdar

    ……Had the subcontinent followed the Consociational model based on consensus between communities that it would have stayed united and would have avoided Modi type characters…..
    .
    We wud still have been drafting our Constt, I suspect.
    .
    Regards

  • timer

    to ylh


    “…every minute of his life as governor general was spent trying to make Pakistan work…”

    and yet…

    ….why it did not work?
    did islamic self-glorifications and arrogance and history-cheating (on all of which he too participated) cause that?

    would it have helped if he had written a book describing his final plans accurately and admitting his mistakes and lies?

    A lawyer lies in order to get his case to succeed.
    But would it not have helped us ALL live more honestly and peacefully if he had admitted his lies in his dying days?

    Imagine Jinnah leaving behind in writing a all-round published book in which he admits his self-deceits and deceits.
    How greatly it would have helped you today in Pakistan.
    – What if he had written that Kashmir invasions by pak army (under whatever excuses/machoism/zeal) was a mistake.
    – What if he had admitted that all his praise of islam/Moh./Kuran was just a ploy to be at the top of the muslim pyramid in british India? (since he alone could lead them! – as he believed and was said after him again to glorify him)
    and so on

    We can’t wish luck to Pakistan because Pakistan is now the irreversible tool of islamic-arabic fascism and imperialism from which there is no escape for the pak-pure people.
    We can’t wish luck to those who wish to exterminate us (non-muslims). And that is what islam wants to do.

  • Majumdar

    Masadi sb,
    .
    however the Muslim in India as opposed to the Hindu in India is more indigenous given the standardized and not regionally bound practice given his rule
    .
    Are you saying that religions should be standardised and not have any local/regional flavour? And that any religion/culture which is not standardised is not indigenous?
    .
    Regards

  • kaalchakra

    Dear Dr Asadi

    Let me elucidate this one thing, once and for all, since you have always been an exceptionally slow person. I do not come here to engage with people like you. I come here to understand where you come from and help others I care about understand you better as well. Best.

  • Mohan

    Rahman should get a standing ovation for his response to Raza Academy’s fatwa

    Last week, an Indian-Islamic organization called Raza Academy initiated a fatwa against Oscar-award winning music composer AR Rahman and an Iranian filmmaker for the movie Muhammad: Messenger of God, for which Rahman had composed music.

    Raza Academy’s complaint was that with the title of the movie being that of the prophet, it would be disrespectful if people take the name of the movie in vain.

    We know AR Rahman to be a classy, calm and fantastic music composer.

    His response to Raza Academy’s fatwa is the same – classy, calm and simply fantastic.

    He starts by saying, “I am not a scholar of Islam. I follow the middle path and am part traditionalist and part rationalist. I live in the Western and Eastern worlds and try to love all people for what they are, without judging them. “

    He then explains that he didn’t direct or produce the movie, he just did the music.

    And then, he begins responding to Mr. Noori, a member of Raza Academy.

    In response to Mr Noori saying that all Muslims have to do something about the movie because if and when they meet Allah and he asks them what they did to stop the movie, they will not have an answer, Rahman says, “My decision to compose the music for this film was made in good faith and with no intention of causing offence. In fact the decision was based on a similar point of view as expressed by Mr Noori, what, and if, I had the good fortune of facing Allah and he were to ask me on judgment day, I have you faith, talent, money, fame and health… why did you not do music for my beloved Muhammad (sals) film? A film whose intention is to unite humanity, clear misconceptions and spread my message that life is about kindness…”

    He further explains that it is his duty to dispel notions about Muhammad which exist in the world today, and that is why he was a part of the movie.

    Stating that we are blessed to live in a country like India where religious freedom is practiced, he says, “Let us set a precedent in clearing conflict with grace and dignity and not trigger violence in words or actions.”

    Stay classy Rahman.

    You can read the full statement here.

    – See more at: http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/rahman-should-get-standing-ovation-his-response-raza-academy%E2%80%99s-fatwa-34297#sthash.RCEDILYN.dpuf

  • bonobashi

    A terrific response. Unanswerable. And to think that idiots like Noori exist in our midst.

  • Gorki

    Professor Asadi:
    .
    “In a multi-ethnic or multiracial identity, identity politics can only lead to a hierarchical system, the antithesis of democracy- which btw is linked to nationhood and capitalism, to forge one nation out of diversity and that cannot operate on principles of difference in identity but seeks one national identity- that cannot come to be given a politics of separate identity…”
    .
    I may be wrong but I am afraid Majumdar Da believes that identity comes first, then a nation.
    Any multiculturalism that is there should be as little as possible, it is merely tolerated as a matter of necessity not choice.
    Regards.

  • Arzu

    Kaal Kachra… kachhar kaal…. hahaha … it rhymes .. LOL 🙂
    ..
    no one to your rescue .., even the ones you applauded..
    aapki saRY intelligence isNey moDe key dal di.. you know where..

  • Mohan

    The death of rationalism: Who killed Dabholkar, Pansare and Kalburgi?

    1, 210 million Indians are religious; 2.9 million Indians aren’t. Or, in other words, 99.76 per cent of Indians are believers.
    .
    There are 158.75 million children in India aged 0-6. Almost all of them are religious, if one goes by the above numbers.
    .
    Have you ever asked a three-year-old child his religion? What was the answer? Hindu? Muslim? Christian? Sikh? Jain? Buddhist?
    .
    This is how deep-rooted religion is in our country, when 158 million toddlers aren’t slotted in the “no religion” category. But it is true. A child is handed a religion even though he doesn’t understand what he has been handed, and in which hand must he hold this thing that isn’t made of plastic or stuffed cotton. A two-year-old Hindu. A one-year-old Muslim. A newly-born Sikh. A mother pregnant with a Christian foetus that kicks in frustration for it wants to enter the world and declare to the census lady that it is a Christian.
    .
    You think you can change this?
    .
    Who is a rationalist? We’d like to believe we all are. We’d like to believe that rationalists are those who do hawans before they initiate a rocket launch countdown; who unfold their mats and fold their legs and face the Kaaba before they orchestrate a perfect lift-off; who do spectacles-testicles-left-pocket-right-pocket before they manoeuvre Mangalyaan into orbit. Yes, we are all rationalists.
    .
    Well, there are three less rationalists among us now. Dabholkar, Pansare and Kalburgi.
    .
    Dabholkar, who spent much of his life exposing sham rituals, miracles, black magic, and godmen, was murdered in 2013 by two men who then escaped on a motorbike. Two years have passed but the police are yet to identify the attackers. In a cruel twist of irony, when all avenues were exhausted, the police resorted to hiring a tantric so he could commune with the late Dabholkar and offer clues to his murder.
    .
    The identity of Dabholkar’s killers may be unknown but most columnists are of the belief that he was killed by Hindutva elements. This may or may not be true, but the sway of this opinion is so overwhelming that it is blasphemous to suggest Dabholkar may have been killed by people hired by piqued godmen — godmen who have a fanatical following in our country, but who also have nothing to do with this “beast” called Hindutva. The word beast is callipered in quotes as Hindutva has been described by the Supreme Court as a secular way of life, the writer of this landmark judgement none other than the late Justice JS Verma. But then again, it is blasphemous to suggest anything that might offer an alternate, entirely logical, viewpoint.
    .
    In a court of law, would any of the arguments that implicate “the Hindus” or “the Hindutvavadis” or “the Right Wing extremists” for the cold-blooded murder of Dabholkar stand a chance? What if the judge asks: “Tell me, Mr Columnist, are there fanatics among Hindus?”
    .
    “Yes, your honour,” would reply the columnist, correctly.
    .
    “What about among Christians – are there fanatics among Christians?”
    .
    “No doubt, your honour, there are.”
    .
    “Now then. Are you aware that Mr Dabholkar and his organisation MANS, the Maharashtra Andhashraddha Nirmulan Samiti, protested vehemently against the canonisation of Mother Teresa by the Pope?”
    .
    Silence.
    .
    “Well?”
    .
    “No, your honour, I wasn’t.”
    .
    “Were you aware that Mr Dabholkar even wrote to the Pope asking him not to make Mother Teresa a saint?”
    .
    “No, your honour, I wasn’t. This fact never comes up in any of the hundreds of opinion pieces on Mr Dabholkar and his murder that, if I may add, has become a metaphor for the death of Rationalism, birth of Intolerance, the murder Freedom of Thought, and the assassination of Free Speech, not to mention the creeping and suffocating…”
    .
    “Answer briefly, please. Is it not within the realms of possibility that Mr Dabholkar might have offended a fanatical devotee of Mother Teresa who wanted her to be anointed a saint?”
    .
    “Possible, your honour.”
    .
    “Leave aside Mother Teresa for a moment. We all know that godmanship is a multi-crore industry in our country, do we not?”
    .
    “Indeed, your honour.”
    .
    “And what was Dabholkar doing? Was he not opening the eyes of the clients of these godmen; was he not making a dent in their earnings by exposing their nonsense?”
    .
    “He was, your honour.”
    .
    “Are all godmen hindutvawadis; are they Right wing; do they call themselves Virat Hindus; do they bemoan Western thought and culture; are they paranoid schizophrenics hell-bent on dictating who gets to head ICHR? Are Nirmal Baba or Sai Baba from the BJP; or the RSS; or the Shiv Sena?”
    .
    “They aren’t, your honour.”
    .
    “Is it not within the realms of possibility that Mr Dabholkar incensed a godman and that the latter ordered the hit?”
    .
    “Possible, your honour.”
    .
    “You want to request for a recess?”
    .
    “Yes, your honour.”
    .
    Two months before Dabholkar was killed, MANS got to know of a 10-year-old girl in a village in Vidarbha. Her grandmother had dreamt of a goddess who wanted to drink blood. The grandmother, along with 10 villagers and the sarpanch, plotted to sacrifice her granddaughter. The girl was kidnapped, taken to a forest. Her throat was slit. The blood that poured out was drunk by the grandmother and her accomplices.

    This is India. Dabholkar was trying to change India. He was trying to stop people from believing in things that had been believed in for thousands of years. He was trying to stop grandmothers from killing their grandchildren and drinking their blood.

    This is a nation where the sitting Chief Justice of the Supreme Court can say in an open court: “Yes, why not. An idea can be punished.”

  • Mohan

    Continue-
    .
    Another rationalist, Prabir Ghosh, was determined to expose the famous Teresa Miracle, where a woman named Monica Besra was cured of cancer after she kept a medallion bearing Mother Teresa’s image by her side. This very miracle was cited by the Vatican during the beatification ceremony through which Mother Teresa became a saint. Ghosh, who is the General Secretary of SRAI, the Science and Rationalists’ Association of India, decided to investigate. He tracked down Monica Besra, and discovered that she had received medical treatment for ovarian cancer.
    .
    Ghosh, whose work involves real and present danger, told Open magazine of an instance when two gunmen confronted him on a train but ran away after seeing his police guards.
    .
    Watch this video, available on Ghosh’s SRAI website, where Sai Baba’s act of conjuring vibhuti from thin air is explained.
    .
    After you’ve watched it once, watch it again, slowly, to admire the mix of zeal and servility in the eyes of Sai Baba’s devotees. Make no mistake — Ghosh is a marked man.
    .
    Irrational beliefs, black magic, superstition, voodoo, discrimination – these are not exclusive to any one religion or a way of life. Why are they being projected so? And, more importantly, why is only one theory being propounded?
    .
    Govind Pansare, a politician belonging to the Communist Party of India and a friend of Dabholkar – and, it is now being argued, a rationalist – was murdered in February of this year. Again, the needle of suspicion pointed to “Hindus”, “Hindutvawadis” and “Right wing fanatics”. Among the motives suggested by the columnists, one was that Pansare had spoken against Nathuram Godse a month before he was murdered.
    .
    If that be the case, then this author, too, is counting the breaths he has left in him; for he, too, thinks Godse was a psychopathic murderer who, far from being glorified should be reviled.

    Anand Ranganathan @ARangarajan1972
    Frankly, I’m amazed at the recent eulogising of the street-thug turned psychopathic murderer Godse. Profoundly disturbing at so many levels.

    It is quite possible that some fanatic who idolised Godse took offence at what Pansare said and killed him. But could there be other, equally plausible reasons, reasons that are never brought up, consciously or subconsciously?
    .
    It is well known that Pansare was a raucous anti-toll tax activist. Indeed, early reports of the attack on him mentioned him only in this capacity, and not as a rationalist who riled Hindus. In days and months prior to Pansare’s murder, his anti-toll tax campaign had led to a violent agitation against the company that collected the toll-tax. Pansare had also led a popular agitation against the Maharashtra government’s SEZ policy.
    .
    Here, the judge, back from recess, would ask the columnist, “Is it not within the realms of possibility that actions of Mr Pansare offended a few devious businessmen or land sharks and they ordered the hit?”

  • Mohan

    Continue –

    Take the third case, that of MM Kalburgi, killed last month in an act of cold-blooded murder. Within minutes, anyone who could write or tweet – including this author – lay the blame on fanatics peeved by Kalburgi’s rationalism and his fight against religious intolerance. Some went further – including this author – linking the murders of Dabholkar and Pansare with the murder of Kalburgi, decreeing the prevailing atmosphere in the country, an atmosphere where freedom of speech is threatened at the drop of a hat and rationalists survive only because they haven’t been popped off yet by extremists. This, mind you, remains a possibility – that all three murders were carried out by Hindu zealots. But what is the job of journalists if not to present all possibilities? Days later, it came to light that an academic or a property dispute could also be the reason behind Kalburgi’s murder, although other reports rule out the latter.
    .
    Now I ask: If tomorrow, Darwin forbid, the atheist writer and thinker Taslima Nasreen is murdered -– a possibility she herself has written about — would we at once lay the blame on Asaduddin Owaisi? Recall that in 2007, goons belonging to Mr Owaisi’s party, the Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen (MIM), had mercilessly attacked Dr Nasreen in the middle of a literary event, and what’s more, to this day they remain gleefully unrepentant of it. The attackers were MLAs, their leader an MP.
    .
    Would we, then, drench our opinion pieces with theories of the MIM having paid for the hit, were Dr Nasreen’s prophetic words to come true? Would Mr Owaisi be chased, ridiculed, berated and condemned by writers and anchors in equal measure?
    .
    All three murders, of Dabholkar, Pansare and Kalburgi, remain unsolved. When clues don’t emerge, biases do; pens swap places with the missing murder weapons.
    .
    Sooner than later it must strike us that propounding theories and discussing who could have killed the rationalists is much less important than discussing why they are being threatened.
    .
    It is not an easy life being an atheist. In 13 countries, atheism carries a straight death penalty. This is what must be discussed, without ascribing motives, without being irrational.

  • Mohan

    Continue –
    .
    Let us not discuss the rationalists who are dead, without also discussing the rationalists who are threatened with death. Let us not discuss Narendra Dabholkar and Govind Pansare without discussing Taslima Nasreen and Sanal Edamaruku. Both are on the run, shifting from one country to another, holding on, just. Everyone knows Nasreen but not many know of Edamaruku.
    .
    In 2012, a leafy suburb of Mumbai witnessed something that was at once termed a miracle by the faithful -– the toes of Jesus Christ were dripping water. Edamaruku inspected the statue and declared it was due to capillary action and not divine intervention. While he was at a TV studio providing details of his discovery, a crowd gathered outside, armed with sticks. Soon, he was on the run, chased by the Catholic Secular Forum that slapped blasphemy charges on him. He applied for anticipatory bail but it was rejected. The penal provisions involving blasphemy are strict, drafted as they were by the colonial British. He had to decide — to stay and be murdered or to flee. Currently, he is hiding in Finland. Oswald Gracias – the anti-gay Archbishop of Mumbai who believes in exorcism, and who recently extracted a grovelling apology from stand-up comics of All India Bakchod – told Edamaruku things would get back to normal if he were to apologise to the Catholic Church. To his credit, Edamaruku refused. The result? He spends his life cooped up in a small apartment in Helsinki. A few years ago, a friend of Edamaruku pleaded with him to return to India, allaying fears of persecution and death at the hands of fanatics. That friend was Dabholkar.
    .
    Irrationality isn’t religion-specific. To blame exclusively one set of religious fanatics, to elaborate solely on the Hinduism-directed activism of rationalists, to lean entirely on the departed rationalists when discussing growing intolerance, is to deny the readers the knowledge of what the rationalists who are alive are going through.
    .
    To solve unsolved cases is the job of the police not the columnists. Lay the facts on the table. Lay them not as a conquistador or a preacher would. Lay them without malice or ridicule. People who aren’t rationalists aren’t irrational; people who aren’t non-believers aren’t illiterate buffoons who ought to be ridiculed.

  • Mohan

    continue –

    President Obama believes that the world was created in six days, that Jesus Christ was the outcome of Immaculate Conception. President Obama isn’t irrational. He isn’t foolish, or crazy, or absurd, or illogical. Mahatma Gandhi was a deeply religious man. Richard Dawkins would have called him an idiot for this reason, like he called the inventor of MRI an “ignorant fool” because he believes that the world was created in six days.

    Richard Dawkins ✔@RichardDawkins
    Dr Damadian believes the world was created in 6 days. He also invented the MRI scanner. The MRI scanner was invented by an ignorant fool

    To be a militant atheist is to mock the very foundation on which atheism stands – Science.
    .
    Who is an atheist? Someone who believes that God is not the answer to the following two questions: How did the universe originate; and how did life. It is important for militant atheists to remember the two men who, through their genius, confirmed that God wasn’t the answer to the above two questions, and in doing so provided atheism an unshakable foundation –- Charles Darwin and Georges Lemaitre.
    .
    Darwin believed in God. And Lemaitre? Well, he was a catholic priest.
    .
    Atheists and Rationalists will remain a threatened species in India. We have lost the battle. 1.2 billion, or 99.76 per cent of the population will not see the light anytime soon. But there is glory to be had in the belief that those who should have won the battle have lost it. Atheism and rationalism aren’t dead, and one day in the distant future, 158 million Indian children of age 0-6 would be categorised as persons belonging to “no religion”. Their parents would tell the Census lady, “We are Hindu,” or “We are Muslim,” “but our two-year-old son has no religion. Yes, don’t be shocked. Drink this sherbet and tick that box.”

    http://www.newslaundry.com/2015/09/14/the-death-of-rationalism-who-killed-dabholkar-pansare-and-kalburgi/?utm_content=buffere14de&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

  • PMAM

    Majumdar India September 11, 2015 at 1:27 pm:
    .
    “we know very well that the dominant narrative on Muslim, and who is one, wins out when there is ideological conflict. So, are you arguing that only Sunnis are Muslims and that Shias and Mirzais are not. In that case Hindus will be appropriately the inverse of “Sunnis” and not “Muslims.”
    .
    Majumdar Sb. The consensus among Muslims is that both Sunnis and Shias are Muslims and Ahmadis are not. In that case both Hindus and Ahmadis are non-Muslim citizens of Pakistan with their own reserved political representation. All religious minorities actively participate in the elections and regularly send their representatives to the elected bodies, except Ahmadis who insist that they too are Muslims, actually the only true Muslims. And that is what the fight is all about.

  • YLH

    Masadi sb,

    I am afraid I do not see your point. And I certainly don’t consider your point of view to be valid in anyway. You obviously have not understood what consociationalism means. Your point about hierarchy does not stand the test of history or facts. Netherlands and Canada are two brilliant examples of consociationalism and they are better democracies than any I know. Muslims had legitimate concerns about Hindu majority which was better organized and much better poised to use the one man one vote system to establish caste Hindu rule over all of India. People like you wouldn’t have a chance of getting anywhere had it not been for Pakistan.

    Merely repeating the lie that Ahmadi issue has to do with Muslim identity or Jinnah is not going to whitewash the fact that it was Bhutto who took a non issue and decided to use it to appease Mullahs and kiss up to his Saudi masters. If it had been an issue of Muslim identity Jinnah would not have included Ahmadis in that identity for after all he too was a politician. Bhutto used the Ahmadi issue because Saudis offered him money for nuclear program if he toed their line. These are the facts. He therefore sacrificed sanity for temporary gain.

    Ahmadi issue exists in India as well and Indonesia as well. It existed before Pakistan. Jinnah had kept it at bay by refusing to give into the Mullahs. Bhutto let those Mullahs loose with what he did. You can make a thousand excuses and try to blame it on the Muslim identity but it was Bhutto who took the gun and Bhutto who shot it and Bhutto who got the parliament to declare Ahmadis non Muslims. These are also the facts. Bhutto was an unscrupulous politician and a man who didn’t care about the long term impact of this action. Before Bhutto’s action Ahmadis were living more or less peacefully in Pakistan and since what Bhutto did they live in perpetual fear. Bhutto stripped them of their religious identity. He took away their right to live as free people in their own country.

    I know you are really anxious to somehow absolve Bhutto and blame it all on Jinnah but it is you who are sticking to crap like a fly to use your analogy. I just hope some day you will be honest about these things and stop making excuses for a man like Bhutto for the harm he wrought on Pakistan and a hapless minority by doing something unprecedented in history … Using a National Assembly to determine the faith of an entire sect.

    The sheer gall of your commentary is upsetting – Jinnah who refused to declare Ahmadis as Non-Muslims, who repeatedly and publicly declared that Ahmadis are Muslims because they say so, whose entire life was dedicated to getting minority communities a fair share is somehow to blame for what Bhutto did. Bhutto who took a law and order situation and unnecessarily threw it to the parliament? I am just amazed… no wonder no one takes you seriously.

    It was Bhutto who laid the foundations of Islamization in Pakistan. Zia merely took it to the next level.

  • PMAM

    Majumdar India September 14, 2015 at 4:59 pm:
    .
    Majumdar Sb. On this issue I am with you. Like you I also think that all religions should have a local/regional flavor.

  • kaalchakra

    “The consensus among Muslims is that both Sunnis and Shias are Muslims”

    That is a majority understanding, not a consensus. Some schools of Shias are so different that no one who cares to look at their beliefs would consider them Muslims, and many don’t consider them Muslims either (which, by the way, is also true among Sunnis themselves.)

    But Ahmadis ARE different from both Shias and Sunnis, as the latter are broadly understood.

  • obsever
  • yasserlatifhamdani

    PMAM,

    There is absolutely no justification for declaration of Ahmadis as Non-Muslims. It is the work of an unscrupulous power hungry politician i.e. Zulfikar Ali Bhutto and it has now taken a life of its own.

    It is antithesis of Jinnah and his idealism for both Muslims and Pakistan…

    So long as this Pakistan remains Bhutto’s Pakistan and Zia’s Pakistan it will not progress. It will have to go back to Jinnah’s vision which is where the salvation for Pakistan lies… it means undoing what Bhutto wrought on Pakistan.

    Whether Sunnis and Shias believe Ahmadis are not Muslims is neither here nor there and should not be consideration for state policy. It is as simple as that. Bhutto the coward created this issue when instead of resolving a law and order situation, he decided to “solve” it by throwing it to the parliament. Not every thing deserves parliamentary intervention. This was not an issue that a parliament should have touched.

  • obsever
  • PMAM

    It is unfair to compare politics of Bhutto with that of Jinnah. The two leaders operated in two very different environments. Jinnah was fighting with Hindus and could use all the help he could get. He will take along anyone who could help his cause, in this case Ahmadis. Even though Mullahs opposed Jinnah, for him larger adversary was the Hindu. Ahmadis on their part were eager to be taken as Muslims so they joined the Muslim cause under Jinnah. Simple and pure politics. Bhutto in his time was continuously harassed by the Mullah for not being Muslim enough. He found Ahmadis to be politically dispensable to enhance his own Muslim credentials. Politics simple and pure. Saudis have nothing to do with it. They fear Iran, not Ahmadis. The cause of Pakistan is so deeply aligned with Islam that no non-Muslim will gain any ground in Pakistan. The best future for the Ahmadis in Pakistan is to stop claiming to be Muslim and forge a new identity and prosper as a separate religion.

  • Mohan

    “The cause of Pakistan is so deeply aligned with Islam that no non-Muslim will gain any ground in Pakistan.”

    Agree with PMA. This is the reality of Pakistan

  • yasserlatifhamdani

    Actually Ayesha Jalal in her book “Struggle for Pakistan” establishes a direct link between Saudi funding and Bhutto’s shameless decision to throw the question to the parliament.

    “The best future for the Ahmadis in Pakistan is to stop claiming to be Muslim and forge a new identity and prosper as a separate religion.”

    I am really sorry to read this. They will never do it. And your insistence that they do will only make it worse for Pakistan.

    Masadi wrote somewhere that Bhutto resolved the issue democratically. What utter hogwash and nonsense. Bhutto’s mandate came for his roti kapra and makaan and not to declare Ahmadis Non-Muslim. In any event it vitiates the very spirit of fundamental rights and good common sense.

    Also your assertion that Jinnah took along Ahmadis simply because he would take on anyone who supported him is just untrue. Majlis-e-Ahrar – who were in bigger numbers – were ready to support Jinnah if he would turn Ahmadis out of the Muslim League. He repeatedly refused on principle.

    There is no comparison between Jinnah and Bhutto… because Jinnah was a man of principle and integrity and Bhutto constitutionally alien to principle and integrity.

  • PMAM

    So what if Ayesha Jalal says this or that. Ayesha Jalal too has her own agenda just like everyone else. Ahmadis do not enter into Saudi calculations. Iran on the other hand does. Bhutto was not above shame or politics. As a politician he threw Ahmadis under the bus. That is politics. Look at the Jews in America. A tiny religious minority wields political power much greater than its numbers. Ahmadis instead of complaining need to play their own politics. Ahmadi religion is flourishing in the West. Ahmadis have West’s support. They should use that strength to make things happen in Pakistan to their own advantage.

  • obsever

    gorki and arzu,

    स्टैनफोर्ड विश्वविद्यालय की एक इतिहासकार का कहना है कि पुराने संस्कृत ग्रंथ इस बात का खुलासा करते हैं कि हिंदुओं और मुसलमानों के बीच गहरे सांस्कृतिक संबंध हुआ करते थे. उनका कहना है कि मुगलों के शासनकाल में कोई धार्मिक या सांस्कृतिक संघर्ष नहीं था. यह इतिहासकार ऑड्रे ट्रश्के हैं.

    दक्षिण एशिया के सांस्कृतिक और बौद्धिक इतिहास पर इनकी काफी पकड़ मानी जाती है. इन्होंने अपनी किताब ‘कल्चर ऑफ एनकाउंटर्स : संस्कृत एट द मुगल कोर्ट’ में कहा है कि 16वीं से 18वीं सदी के बीच दोनों समुदायों में एक-दूसरे के लिए बहुत ज्यादा सांस्कृतिक आदर-भाव पाया जाता था. धार्मिक या सांस्कृतिक झगड़े नहीं थे.

    स्टैनफोर्ड विश्वविद्यालय ने एक बयान में कहा है, “उनका (ट्रश्के) शोध जो सामान्य धारणाएं हैं, उससे बिलकुल अलग तरह का खाका खिंचता है. सामान्य धारणा यही है कि मुसलमान हमेशा भारतीय भाषाओं, धर्मो और संस्कृति के प्रति शत्रुतापूर्ण रवैया रखते रहे हैं.”

    दक्षिणपंथी हिंदुओं ने देखा अपना फायदा-
    ट्रश्के का कहना है कि समुदायों को बांटने वाली व्याख्याएं दरअसल अंग्रेजों के दौर 1757 से 1947 के बीच अस्तित्व में आईं. ट्रश्के लिखती हैं कि उपनिवेशवाद 1940 के दशक में खत्म हो गया। लेकिन, दक्षिणपंथी हिंदुओं ने हिंदू-मुसलमान के बीच के विवादों को हवा देते रहने में काफी राजनैतिक फायदा देखा.

    ट्रश्के कहती हैं कि भारत में मौजूदा धार्मिक तनाव की वजह मुगलकाल के बारे में बनी बनाई वैचारिक अवधारणा में निहित है. उप महाद्वीप के इतिहास का वस्तुष्ठि और सटीक अध्ययन नहीं किया जाता. आज की धार्मिक असहिष्णुता को न्यायोचित ठहराने के लिए मुगलकाल के उन धार्मिक तनावों का हवाला दिया जाता है जो दरअसल थे ही नहीं.

    ट्रश्के का काम बताता है कि भारत में मुसलमानों की लालसा भारतीय संस्कृति या हिंदू धर्म पर प्रभुत्व हासिल करने की नहीं थी. सच तो यह है कि आधुनिक काल के शुरुआती दौर के मुसलमानों की रुचि परंपरागत भारतीय विषयों को जानने में थी.

    भारत में रहकर की स्टडी-
    यह विषय संस्कृत ग्रंथों में मौजूद थे. स्टैनफोर्ड में धार्मिक विषयों की शिक्षा देने वाली ट्रश्के ने अपने शोध के लिए कई महीने पाकिस्तान में और 10 महीने भारत में गुजारे. वह पांडुलिपियों की तलाश में कई अभिलेखागारों में गईं. उन्होंने इस बात को समझा कि मुगल समाज के संभ्रांत लोग संस्कृत विद्वानों के निकट संपर्क में रहते थे. ट्रश्के से पहले इस रिश्ते पर किसी ने गहरी रोशनी नहीं डाली थी. उन्होंने बताया कि भाषाई और धार्मिक मामलों पर हिंदू और मुसलमान बुद्धिजीवियों में विचारों का आदान-प्रदान होता था.

    ट्रश्के का शोध बताता है कि बजाए इसके कि मुगल भारतीय ज्ञान और साहित्य को खत्म करना चाहते थे, सच यह है कि मुगलों ने भारतीय चिंतकों और विचारकों के साथ गहरे संबंध का समर्थन किया था. ट्रश्के इस्लामी शासन व्यवस्था में संस्कृत के इतिहास पर किताब लिख रही हैं.IANS

  • YLH

    Ahmadis’ religion is just like Sunnis or Shias’ religion : Islam.

    Bhutto’s nefarious pro-Saudi excommunication is a matter of shame for every Pakistani who loves Pakistan and who believes in Jinnah’s idealism for Pakistan and for Muslim.

    Ahmadis are obviously doing well in the West. It is Pakistan that is suffering because of Bhutto’s politics.

  • obsever
  • obsever
  • YLH

    PS Shah Faisal’s early flirtation and then disenchantment with Ahmadis is a matter of record.

  • obsever

    mohan ,

    akhir mein likhi hai barbadee
    aashiq ho ya atankwadee.

  • PMAM

    Sunni-Shia differences are of affiliation. Sunnis affiliate with Prophet Mohammad and his Companions. Shias affiliate with Prophet Mohammad and his decedents. Otherwise there are very little theological differences between the two. In the Middle East the Arab-Persian politics took the shape of Sunni-Shia conflict only after Iranians asserted their nationhood separate from the neighboring Arabs and Turks. Ahmadi situation is very different. Ahmadis have their own Prophet, Mehdi and Messiah in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani and his decedents as their Khalifas. Ahmadi faith has everything that qualifies it as a separate religion. So why not be one?

  • sta

    @PMAM (September 14, 2015 at 11:49 pm)
    .

    Sunni-Shia differences are of affiliation. Sunnis affiliate with Prophet Mohammad and his Companions. Shias affiliate with Prophet Mohammad and his decedents. Otherwise there are very little theological differences between the two. In the Middle East the Arab-Persian politics took the shape of Sunni-Shia conflict only after Iranians asserted their nationhood separate from the neighboring Arabs and Turks. Ahmadi situation is very different. Ahmadis have their own Prophet, Mehdi and Messiah in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani and his decedents as their Khalifas. Ahmadi faith has everything that qualifies it as a separate religion. So why not be one?

    .
    Let us examine the Sunni, Shia and Ahmadi perspectives individually :
    .
    1. Sunni Muslim perspective : After the Prophet Muhammad, there will remain three major sources of guidance for the Muslims: (a) the Quran, and (b) the Sunnah of the Prophet, and (c) the foretold Imam Mahdi, who will appear in the latter days to guide the Muslims.
    .
    2. Shia Muslim perspective : After the Prophet Muhammad, there will remain three major sources of guidance for the Muslims: (a) the Quran, and (b) the Ahl al Bait (people of the Prophet’s household), and (c) the foretold Imam Mahdi, who will appear in the latter days to guide the Muslims.
    .
    3. Ahmadi Muslim perspective : After the Prophet Muhammad, there will remain three major sources of guidance for the Muslims: (a) the Quran, and (b) the Sunnah of the Prophet and that the Ahl al Bait are committed followers of the Sunnah, and (c) the prophecy of the advent of the foretold Imam Mahdi who was to appear in the latter days to guide the Muslims, has been fulfilled in the person of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835 – 1908).
    .
    Regards

  • Majumdar

    PMA sb,
    .
    Jinnah was fighting with Hindus and could use all the help he could get. He will take along anyone who could help his cause, in this case Ahmadis.
    .
    Essentially my 800 lb gorilla hypothesis. However, specifically in the case of our beloved Qaid something else may be kept in mind. Having secured Pakiland and having lost Gurdaspur, there was little that the Qaid had to gain by keeping Mirzais in good humour. And yet he made no moves to apostatise Mirzais till his death.Hence, the possibility that his acceptance of Mirzais was a pure tactical ploy looks rather dubious. Baaki to bhai, Allah hi jaane.
    .
    Regards

  • obsever
  • HaHa

    @PMAM “The cause of Pakistan is so deeply aligned with Islam that no non-Muslim will gain any ground in Pakistan. The best future for the Ahmadis in Pakistan is to stop claiming to be Muslim and forge a new identity and prosper as a separate religion.” Err Miyan looks like you forgot to complete your advise to Ahmadis or do you expect them to take the hint?

  • Majumdar

    PMA sb,
    .
    Ahmadi faith has everything that qualifies it as a separate religion. So why not be one?
    .
    It is interesting that the TNT is reflected in theology (if that is a correct term) as well. Patriotic Muslims (like you) would insist that Mirzayyat is a separate faith while Mirzais would insist that they follow Islam. By contrast, patriotic Hindus (aka Sanghis) wud insist that Buddhist, Jains and Sikhs are Hindus while (most) adherents of these faiths wud insist that they are anything but….
    .
    Regards

  • bonobashi

    Majumdar

    Isn’t your example asymmetric? Politically, believers in the TNT, whether Muslim or Hindu, believe that they are separate; those who don’t believe in it are both Muslim and Hindu as well. In the case of Buddhists and Sikhs, it is true what you say, that they don’t consider themselves Hindus at all, but Hindus consider them to be Hindus. In the case of Jains, most Jains consider themselves part of the Hindu extended family. as do the Hindus vis-a-vis them.

  • keval

    Tolerance and open-ness is ingrained in hindu religions (note the plural) and mind, whereas in the west asiatic religions intolerance, arrogance and closed-minded-ness are inherent.

    This leads to TNT among muslims and that in turn to more fascism and war-hysteria.

    Pakistanis want to be servants of arab and turkish imperialisms.

  • PMAM

    sta Australia September 15, 2015 at 4:44 am:
    .
    Respectfully, Muslims regard Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani as an imposter. ‘Imam Mehdi’ is a Shia and not a Sunni concept. Sunnis do not have an hierarchical ‘Imamat’ concept. Qur’an does not say anything about a later-day ‘Prophet, Mehdi or Messiah’. But if Ahmadis want to have one, by all means they should have one.

  • PMAM

    Majumdar India September 15, 2015 at 12:23 pm:
    .
    “And yet he made no moves to apostatize Mirzais till his death. Hence, the possibility that his acceptance of Mirzais was a pure tactical ploy looks rather dubious.”
    .
    Ahmadi issue is essentially a Punjabi issue. Jinnah was operating on a much larger scape. I will not say a “tactical ploy” but a policy of inclusivity. His inclusion of Ahmadis was no different than say that of Parsis or Hindus.

  • PMAM

    Majumdar India September 15, 2015 at 3:27 pm:
    .
    “Patriotic Muslims (like you) would insist that Mirzayyat is a separate faith while Mirzais would insist that they follow Islam.”
    .
    Patriotic Muslim? Perhaps you mean to say ‘Patriotic Pakistani’ I am not a religious person. It is not for me to say who is a Muslim and who is not. My philosophy is believe in what ever you want. To each his own. What I am saying is that Muslims do not regard the followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani as Muslims. In my personal opinion having its own ‘Prophet, Mehdi and Messiah’ qualifies Ahmadi as a religion in its own right. It is like Baha’ism or Sikhism.

  • keval

    Jinnah was basically a rich-guys lawyer and for a lawyer of that status it is difficult (if not impossible) not to be tricky and devious.
    It becomes a habit and it is justified/exalted as a sign and proof of superior intelligence.

    The whole of Pakistan is confused and morally in the doldrums due to this duplicity from the very beginning.

    The worst is yet to come.

  • sta

    @PMAM (September 15, 2015 at 4:44 am)

    Muslims regard Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani as an imposter.

    Ahmadi Muslims regard Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as the very same Mahdi and Messiah whose advent had been foretold and conveyed to us by the Holy Prophet Muhammad, through thousands of his hadiths.
    .

    ‘Imam Mehdi’ is a Shia and not a Sunni concept. Sunnis do not have an hierarchical ‘Imamat’ concept.

    Respectfully, you might want to go through the religious literature of the Sunnis, at least a bit. The concept of the foretold Imam Mahdi is as much native to Sunni doctrine and tradition as it is to Shia.

  • kaalchakra

    Sunnis don’t believe in IMAM Mahdi in the way in the way Shias do in IMAMAT. Please don’t confuse the issue.

  • PMAM

    sta Australia September 16, 2015 at 4:09 am:
    .
    Qur’an is the only Holy Book of Islam. Muslims believe it to be a true word of God. There is no “foretold” in it. Believe in Qur’an if you want, and don’t if you don’t. Everything else is a ‘he said, she said’. Sunnis produce their set of ‘he said, she said’ to justify their rituals; Shias produce their set of ‘he said, she said’ to justify their rituals. And then here comes another group; they produce their set of ‘he said, she said’ to legitimize their ‘Prophet, Mehdi, and Messiah’. It is all Mullahism designed to create suckers and of course riches for Moulanas, Pirs, Makhdooms, and lets not forget, Khalifas. Just like rest of them Ahmadi religion is a big business, a family owned corporate enterprise.

  • kaalchakra

    These are corporate ponzi schemes, pure and simple – not confined to Ahmadism but in the way Ahmadi Chanda is collected and communally enforced, Ahmadism more than most. Besides, gains are not just monetary.

    There are Chanda calculators galore.

    You make $0.00 a year, so you should pay $24.00 for Chanda Ijtema, $36.00 for Chanda Majlis, for a total of $60.00.

    http://www.mkausa.org/departments/maal/

  • Zain Jeewanjee

    Why would Bhutto put this in law? questionably the most forward thinking, liberal leader in Pakistani history, did he pass this as many observers correctly point out that by surrendering to the demands of the religious parties after they had resorted to violence, he (Bhutto) unwittingly restored their confidence that was badly battered during the 1970 election.
    Zain Jeewanjee